Fundamental Question. Fundamental Answer.

Roadkill 133 Comments

Paul Martin, in a scrum with reporters, after releasing the Liberal platform this afteroon;

“Let me be very, very clear.”
“The fact is that same-sex marriage and a woman’s right to an abortion are the kind of Canadian values that built this country. They are the values of my father and great Canadians like Tommy Douglas and I will not be the Prime Minister who goes down in history as having taken them away.
“The fact is that they are fundamentally more important than the preservation of Canada’s single-tier public health care system.”

(Or something to that effect.)
Update – The NDP have noticed. This is really their issue and if they can play their cards right, they’ll keep the soft NDP support from wavering to the Liberals. I’d be making a big deal of this, if I were Jack Layton.
Nothing on Conservative.ca yet. That may be tactical, leaving the field open for Layton. They’re not competing for the same votes here.

133 Replies to “Fundamental Question. Fundamental Answer.”

  1. People involved in agriculture know how difficult it is to get any federal support from the Canadian Agricultural Income Stabilization fund. CKTV (Regina) just did a story on the news tonight about that difficulty.
    So how is is that Gary Anderson, a farmer and the Liberal candidate in Regina-Lumsden-Lake Centre, get $111,919 from Ralph Goodale? Maybe he can help his fellow farmers… after all they “need” a voice in Ottawa…
    Public Accounts of Canada, 2004-2005
    Transfer Payments
    Page 3 of 251
    AGRICULTURE AND AGRI-FOOD
    Contributions in support of Business Risk Management Programs under the Agricultural Policy Framework
    Anderson Gary Bethune Sask – $111,919

  2. The following is an edited copy of Mr. Martin’s words from the 2006-01-09 debate:
    “In fact … in fact … fundamentally … in fact … The fact is absolutely … The simple fact is, of course … The fact is … in fact … facts … facts … The fact is … The fact is … The fact is … The fact is … the fact is … The fact of the matter … Fundamentally … in fact … The fact is … fundamental … the fact is … the fact is … In fact … The fact is … in fact … The fact is … in fact … The fact is … The fact now is … in fact … in fact … in fact … fundamentally … the fact is … The fact is … The fact is … fundamentally … fundamental … fundamental … The fact is … a matter of fact … in fact … The fact of the matter it … The fact is … The fact is … The fact is … .”

  3. maybe Gary is just more entitled to his and Rlph’s entitlements tha the poor schmuck farmer who pays the taxes to allow the Liberanos to entitle themselves to our money.
    Go Figure.

  4. I have heard the word “unequivocal” from Paul’s mouth more in the last two years than ever in my entire life, and I am really old. That and “let there be no doubt”. I wish he would just go away.

  5. “The fact is that they are fundamentally more important than the preservation of Canada’s single-tier public health care system…”
    Mr. Martin continues, “you remember…the health care system that Lester Pearson, Pierre Trudeau and my father built. Our Supreme Court justices have already told me, via the Chaouelli decision, that Quebeckers have the right to access to private health care. Far be it from me to question the wisdom of unelected, unaccountable judges.”

  6. How much will taxpayers be forced to pay for his notes and letters once he is out of office.
    How much did Cretien get $400,000.

  7. PRAVDA CBCs top story now.—-Khadr.
    mention that 5 of them are accused of terrorist acts, mention that the father was killed by Pakistani forces.
    No mention that they are directly in the Osama Bin Laden Tribe.
    the usual shameful reporting.

  9. “…and a woman’s right to an abortion are the kind of Canadian values that built this country. They are the values of my father…”
    I wonder if PMPM is thankful his mother didn’t have the same ‘Canadian values’ as his dad?

  10. Notice before speaking at tonight’s rally in Toronto, Martin looked at Ruby Dhalla and said “You’re looking good, Ruby”. Could you IMAGINE the outrage if Harper did that to Ambrose or Guergis?
    I also noticed the irony of Martin giving a big address on “values” when he was just north of Scarborough where EVERY SINGLE LIBERAL MP from that part of town voted against same-sex.

  11. I can see why the farmers would love Paul Martin. The man spews enough fertilizer to cover the nation’s farms 3 times over.

  12. Same-sex marriage and right-to-choose are the values that built this country!!?
    Somehow, I doubt that when my great-great-grandfather emigrated from Ireland at the turn of the century and founded a freakin’ Anglican Church on the Gaspe had that he had them in mind…
    Somehow, I doubt that both my grandfathers were defending their ‘right’ to marry eachother, or allow their spouses to terminate my parents, when they went to fight in Europe …
    Their values built this country. Not PET’s, Cretin’s, or Dithers’.

  13. Harper needs to challenge Martin to a debate to clear the air on all the attack ad accusations. Martin should not be able to hide behind attack ads and press conferences.

  14. Tommy….a baptist minister having abortion and same sex marriage as part of his values? He’s turning over in his grave right now.
    On the other hand, can we have one election in this country without any reference to Tommy Douglas? Please. Someone. Make it stop. I am begging you.

  16. RL wrote:
    “Somehow, I doubt that both my grandfathers were defending their ‘right’ to marry eachother, or allow their spouses to terminate my parents, when they went to fight in Europe …”
    Those were pretty much the values that built Shelbyville.

  17. Things that make you go hmmm, eh? Canadian values that the country was BUILT on? I thought the country was built long before LBP and PET started to tear it down…

  18. The CPC has to address Martin’s concept of Canadian ‘values’. Martin’s ‘values’ are not Canadian values if they are what he enunciated above. Martin’s values are NOT what built this country and I get sick to my stomach every time I read his ‘values’ statements. Time we have our values addressed

  19. Watching Duff tonight, He said that on the english debate the general agreement was that Paulie was having a melt down!!!!! Duffy said that scared him. Can you believe it!
    I also watched (sorry didnot get names) a gentleman from the military, Paulie really pissed the boy and girls in the military off! They are emailing their friends in service telling them to vote for anyone BUT the liebreals!
    Vitruvius: Yours is better than the drinking game I played that throught the french debate and I don’t speak french. Every time Paulie waved his arms I drank! Just kidding… well maybe not!

  20. If Paul Martin says “My father started medicare” once more a very expansive television is going out my 3rd floor window (lucky me if it takes out next door dog). Has anyone noticed that when Paul Martin is stressed he looks like Leahey from the Trailer Park Boys.

  21. I’ve got to agree with Rider on Douglas. To quote our soon-to-be former PM, “Enough is Enough”
    Whether it be SSM, abortion or even health care he is spinning in his grave. The next time his grandson come up here, pontifactes to us about the necessity of public health, then quickly heads back to LA to meet with his PRIVATE physician, all courtesy of FOX (damn capitalist that Rupert Murdoch) I think I am gonna hurl.

  22. Actually Bryan,
    I’ve always thought that when paul martin talks he looks like the occaisional character “Gill” from “The Simpsons”.
    I think “Gill Martin” has a nice ring to it.
    That or “Big Fat Paulie”.

  23. Anybody else feel like the ‘greatest generation’ who helped found this country are looking at their kids act like spoiled brats and shaking their heads? Those who knew how to sacrifice so much for their kids and their country probably hardly recognize it anymore – and they have to listen to the likes of PM lecture everybody on what ‘Canadian values’ are. Go grab a shovel or a hammer PM and do some useful work for once in your life. Maybe you’ll learn to appreciate what it takes to build a country.

  24. So a rough translation of this would be:
    “The values of gay couples wanting to get married in a fundamental Christian church (or muslim place of worship) over-ride the values of the religious people who worship there”
    Can somebody confirm that?

  25. Last night during the debate Martin mentioned that by allowing Property Rights to individuals that that in fact would have severe ramifications to education, health care, etc. Can someone explain to me how that is possible.

  26. If that quote’s accurate, he’d give up Medicare to protect SSM. Wow. I’d like to see some polling data on that….
    And a few years ago he was against gay marriage. Wow.
    Sounds to me like all that coffee Martin’s been drinking is starting to have some drastic effects.
    The Liberals need to have a policy convention and get all this stuff sorted out. They really need Frank McKenna to put a stop to all the nonsense.

  27. I know that the common wisdom is that Paul Martin has the upper hand in the SSM and abortion debate–ie. you can label Stephen Harper scary because of these two things.
    But I wonder if the opposite isn’t the case.
    Generally, evangelical Christians vote 40% Conservative, 40% Liberal and 20% NDP or something like that. People think Christians are Conservative, but historically we’re not. Our vote just isn’t polarized the way it is in the U.S. Just look at those Scarborough Liberals who voted against SSM.
    But if Martin starts talking that his party definitely is the party of SSM and abortion, aren’t you then encouraging that 40% of Christians who vote Liberal to leave that sinking ship? Aren’t you starting the polarization that Martin really can’t afford?
    Because SSM was a ballot initiative in so many states during the last election, Christian turnout was high and Bush won those states. It’s largely the reason he took Ohio.
    I think this is a mistake on Martin’s part. The fact is that SSM and abortion don’t matter much to people except for evangelical Christians and urban city dwellers. Martin already has the urban vote. If he loses Christians across the board, though, he’s lost all the rural vote, too, and a lot of the suburbs.
    He was benefiting because Christians split their vote. If they stop (as trends are showing they’re starting to) the Liberals are in trouble.

  29. “Let me be very, very clear.”
    LIKE A CAR SALESMAN. People who frequently use phrases like “clear” and “clearly” have a hidden agenda in mind (i.e. “brainwashing”).
    “The fact is that same-sex marriage and a woman’s right to an abortion are the kind of Canadian values that built this country.”
    REALLY? Please explain how same-sex marriage “built” Canada’s development – please state with specificity how same-sex marriage built the CPR, how it contributed to the development of Canada’s west. And please explain how “a woman’s right to abortion” built Canada for its first 400 years?
    “They are the values of my father”
    WHOA!! FALSE! Paul Martin, Sr. resigned from the Trudeau cabinet in 1969 to protest the Trudeau government’s legislation for “a woman’s right to abortion”.
    “The are the values of …. great Canadians like Tommy Douglas…” WHOA! Find me any evidence that Tommy Douglas introduced or lobbied for legislation legalizing SSM or abortion during his political career.
    “..and I will not be the Prime Minister who goes down in history as having taken them away.”
    TRUE. Your Prime Ministership will end on January 23, 2006. You will be spared the burden of a job for which you are ill-equipped.
    “The fact is that they are fundamentally more important than the preservation of Canada’s single-tier public health care system.”
    FALSE. Mr. Martin, an OPINION is NOT A FACT. Get this through your head.
    The best thing that could happen for the Liberal Party of Canada…would be for Paul Martin to resign, NOW, and allow another Leader to take his place to avoid a complete electoral debacle.

  31. Folks, always click the link. Though, to be sure, there isn’t much difference in what I wrote and what Martin is actually saying. Which is the reason I worded it the way I have.
    So that we can be very, very clear what it is he means.

  33. Abortion doesn’t kill children. Abortion is performed before a person is formed and long before viability or any consciousness, which is the ultimate determination of personhood.

  36. I was kind of disappointed reading these comments, everyone seem to be taking the post literally, my first reaction was that it was satire, a joke, a fake quote, then, when ALL the posters seemed to be taking it as a literal transcript, I started to wonder what was going on, not even Martin could’ve said that. Thanks Kate for the clarification. As for the rest of you, use your noggins for more than decoration…

  37. Er, Steve, not that I’m averse to discussing the earlier-stage abortions either, but what of those late-term abortions where women are being sent to the States because nowhere in Canada will do them? Definitely late second and third trimester stuff.
    Do you cease being a person everytime you fall asleep? (or get drunk and pass out, for that matter?)

  38. why the hell bring abortion into the question at all? it’s a done deal. The Conservatives have said they will not go there. that’s it that’s all. period. Paul Martin appears to be losing grasp of his mental faculties and starting to sound like somewhat of a lunatic. His imaginations are so far out in left field that I seriously doubt his sanity.

  39. Dithers should stop yakking about his daddy and dear old Tommy.
    I’d hazard a guess that many do not know or care who dear old dad was, and as far as Tommy goes, you’d probably have to explain that he is Keifer’s grandfather and then you’d have to explain who Keifer is and……ZZZZZZZ…..you’re both asleep.
    And by the by, it wouldn’t surprise me to hear Dithers say that SSM and abortion are the values that built this country. Truth is clearly and fundamentally not an issue for him.

  42. I see a degenerate popping in with some profound thoughts on abortion, hey you? How about the first three months or so after birth, when there is no real consciousness or anything that can really be defined as “personhood”, maybe we should be allowed to snuff babies in their first three months of life too? They’ll never know what hit them so why not? OK OK, that’s a little extreme, let’s make it six weeks after birth.

  43. No, never mind the six weeks idea, we’ll just extend it a little for the sake of multiculturalism, we’ll pop out the babies, check what sex it is, and then some of our cultural mosaic may want to decide to abort it if it turns out to be a female. So we’ll make it six hours after birth. Wait, wait, I just remembered… ULTRASOUND! Genital configuration can be established before birth! But isn’t there a law or something about aborting based ob genital configuration?
    Now I’m all confused, I think I’ll just be a good Conservative and leave it at “A PRIVATE MATTER BETWEEN A WOMAN AND HER PHYSICIAN”.

  44. Kate–
    I think most of us realized it was tongue in cheek :).
    But both Martin and Stronach did talk about abortion and SSM today. And I’m still wondering the same thing–was this really such a smart political move? I’m not so sure it was.

  46. I feel like I just woke up in Bizzarro World.
    Liberals running on their Values,
    NDP Tough in Crime!
    Tories Raising Taxes(Tounge in Cheak)
    In our Cities
    In Canada
    I’m noy making this up

  47. Tommy Douglas was a Baptist Minister. somehow I dont think Same Sex Marriage would be something he would not like to have his name bantered about with by PMPM.
    Its only PravdaCBC that puts SSM and the Khadr family way higher in the priorities then the fact that 90% of people dont believe in politicians and the participation continues to drop.
    —listen Peter Pansbridge and Kneel MacDonald —thats a story.
    Actually I havent seen Kneel Macdonald for a couple of nights , does Pravda have him off cooling his heels or working a Liberal husting.??

  48. Kelly, I don’t think late term abortions are done in Canada (that would be 25th week and beyond). Not sure whether they’ve changed the laws, but I’m quite sure docs won’t do them beyond 21 weeks.

  50. The supreme court has put our “One tiered” (hahaha)health care system on notice. Their move could be blocked by the NWSC. Martin wishes to get rid of the NWSC and therefore our National Health Care System. Makes more sense than the reasons he gives. Lets get the word out that it is his secret agenda. It’s very believable since he won’t take direct responsibility for anything.

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