Paul Martin, in a scrum with reporters, after releasing the Liberal platform this afteroon;
“Let me be very, very clear.”
“The fact is that same-sex marriage and a woman’s right to an abortion are the kind of Canadian values that built this country. They are the values of my father and great Canadians like Tommy Douglas and I will not be the Prime Minister who goes down in history as having taken them away.
“The fact is that they are fundamentally more important than the preservation of Canada’s single-tier public health care system.”
(Or something to that effect.)
Update – The NDP have noticed. This is really their issue and if they can play their cards right, they’ll keep the soft NDP support from wavering to the Liberals. I’d be making a big deal of this, if I were Jack Layton.
Nothing on Conservative.ca yet. That may be tactical, leaving the field open for Layton. They’re not competing for the same votes here.
Yep steve, you’re an idiot all right. (a) Harper did not know the candidate was charged with smuggling, (b) the candidate has not yet been convicted of smuggling in a court of law, and (c) there is no meaning or depth to this, as you moronically imply, it does not reflect on Harper in any way.
Further investigation is required, though. At the time of the arrest, the individual in question was a “Trade Commissioner” which is a federally appointed position. Why did the Liberals appoint him to that patronage position and thereby set him up with the credentials that made him a potential candidate for offfice?
Which leads me to another line of thought, I’m going down to the States in a few days to discuss a complex multi-million dollar international business transaction. It never entered my mind to involve a “Trade Commissioner”. What do those people do anyway? The feds appoint one for every state don’t they? They lead a wealthy lifestyle and expense it all back to the taxpayer don’t they? What’s with that?
Partial birth abortions, including late term abortions, are done in Canada, Maggie.
Canada is the only country in the world to have no laws on abortion.
None.
“I think I’ll just be a good Conservative and leave it at “A PRIVATE MATTER BETWEEN A WOMAN AND HER PHYSICIAN”.
Too bad the public funding implicates all taxpayers. Not really private after all.
Nothing’s illegal in Canada WRT abortion, but, as I understand it, there are no practitioners for late-term abortion – hence, some women get their trip to the states paid for (where they’ll do partial-birth abortion, among other things).
MT – I don’t know how late they go in Canada, but there was an expose for the Calgary Foothills hospital a few years back, where a nurse talked after she was expected to watch infants die when they were born alive after ‘failed’ abortions. I don’t remember what ever came of that whole thing.
I can see the advertisements in a few years –
“Canadian Hospital Lines, a division of CSL, invites you to take advantage of our new surgery suites – no line-ups, no waiting, best private health care money can buy.”
Or something like that
Although Can. Hosp. Lines would be registered in Barbados, where they don’t have so many health regulations.
Cal 2
I can spot your posts in the first sentence.
But that ain’t new.
Maggie,
Docs may not do late term abortions but if they did I don’t believe there is any law against it in the Great White North. Didn’t The Supremes strike down the law and it was never taken up again by Parliment?
I think I’ll just be a good Conservative…
A backbench member of Parliament would likely introduce anti-abortion legislation if the Conservatives form the next government, the party’s president said.
“When we form a government, we can be rest assured that there will be a private member’s bill on this,” Don Plett wrote in an e-mail in November to a Conservative Party member in Quebec.
Mr. Plett did not immediately respond to questions
hey Calgarian this comes from a mom who after having 2 healthy baby girls and two blood transfusions after those births, I was told to have no more babies in the mid 1980s when the blood supply was highly questionable. Got pregnant again… I ask you what you would do or tell your wife, sister, aunt, mother or daughter to do?
According to Wikipedia, there are third-term abortion practitioners in all provinces except for PEI and Quebec (paradoxically).
Ut was struck down by the Supreme Court, then a new Law was taken up by Parliament (House of Commons), passed by the House, but the (Liberal dominated, obviously) unelected senate refused to pass it.
But hey, at least it was a Democratic decision.
*It
Hey, I just noticed that I capitalized every important word in that post, but “senate”. Freudian slip or what!
I don’t quite follow kelly, you were told to have no more babies because the blood supply was questionable? I stand by my “private matter between a woman and her physician”, it’s been my position for years. I know it’s a cop out, but a logical and rational one, for the sake of the fundamentals of human rights and equality of women I would deliberately not tell my wife, aunt, mother etc what to do and only be supportive of their decision. I consider myself hard core conservative but I do not question women’s right to that decision, it’s their life and their body.
Kelly:
Study birth control for starters. If someone is in a situation where pregnancy endangers life of the mother very few people or theologies are against abortion.
“Got pregnant again…”
Why?
Ever read this? “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee….”
I have a question…
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how many dots are in this post?
IMO, the only important word in that post was “unelected”.
Kelly,
First – I’d get a second, trusted, opinion on the whole gamut of issues.
Second – I (with my wife) would recognize that she now carries our (next) child. All decisions would be coloured by that realization. You make the best decision, moment by moment, that you can, in that knowledge.
In terms of the transfusion issue, even when blood was ‘highly questionable’, it was still relatively safe (anyone have numbers? I’m making this up, but maybe 1% unsafe rate at its worst); a lesser risk than the certainty of death for our child.
Knowing the likelihood of needing a transfusion, get a specific, compatible donor to donate for you, and have it stored safely. Heck, donate yourself ahead of time, your body would make it up in a few days – you can be sure of a perfect match in that case.
I’ve an aunt who was told she should never have any children – but who didn’t listen to the doctors and has two wonderful kids now.
I don’t know how it’s gotten in, but a very unhealthy ethic has been growing among many doctors to recommend for abortion. I suspect some of it stems from stupid lawsuits (I’m thinking those ‘wrongful birth’ types, for starters).
Just a few thoughts for that specific case.
Calgarian, you’re right – that is a cop out.
Shane O, very well reasoned, commendible, and fairly put.
Certainly a valid point of view.
Calgarian, one very weak point in your argument is that you’re not considering the human rights of the unborn human being. Emotionally, I can sympathize (after all, you can see the woman standing in front of you who obviously exists) – but the ‘logical’ course of action is to consider the fetus a human being with the same rights, until there is a clear reason to say otherwise.
Scientifically, there’s no reason to exclude the fetus from the human family. People can philosophize about when ‘personhood’ begins (as steve started higher up) – heck, our courts get into that kind of legal wrangling pretty regularly (think black people, women, etc). The obvious, biological reality doesn’t seem to inform their judgement all the time. The obvious answer is that a biological individual human being (which begins existence at fertilization of the egg) is the only sensible starting point.
calgarian, to coin a phrase “let me be perfectly clear” I was told to have no more babies because I keep losing blood and need blood transfusions every time. blood supply not withstanding, I’m O negative.
Chris, counting all the dots (over the i’s, etc), I get 28. Is this a late-night game?
I guess the final truthful analysis is that you faced a choice between your own possible or probable demise and the child (or foetus) you had created’s certain demise.
Kelly, do you mind my asking how much blood you lost? Could enough have been stored from your own body over the course of several donations – probably one whole blood and several plasma donations could have been stored without any ill effects to your body? And were they caesarians?
Sorry to intrude on your question directed at calgarian.
Higher, Shane O, but thanks for getting in the spirit of it!
When you ask for the number of dots in ‘this post’, you mean that one particular entry you put in, right? I still get 28.
If you’re including your e-mail that show up with the cursor over it, I get 34.
Shane don’t mind at all. I lost almost 5 pints each time, at least that’s what they pumped into me so I assume that’s what I lost, non? Unfortunately during childbirth nobody knows what may or may not happen, it’s something you can prepare for ahead of time and my children were born naturally no drugs no incisions.
you really can’t prepare for child birth. I had no idea I was going to almost bleed to death otherwise would have stored up.
That part with all the bleeding after the baby is out is the part that gets me on edge the most. My wife and I just sit and be patient and wait for the uterus to contract (shutting off the blood flow, for the most part). Did they have injections at that time to hasten this effect? I’m pretty sure they exist now (although we haven’t used them).
One of the strange things in the abortion debate, to me, is that our technologies are becoming more and more capable of dealing with the complications related to pregnancy/childbirth, but abortion becomes justified on flimsier grounds all the time. It’s unusual that we can do so much more for women and their babies than ever before, but people also seem more and more likely to flippantly offer/choose abortion.
Thanks for the thoughts – I really should get some sleep now.
Night, Shane O. And truth is, I’m too lazy to count them. And besides, it depends what your screen resolution is set at.
my decision really was a choice between life and death, my life against my babies death.
So when Wolfe assaulted Montcalm’s forces, on the Plains of Abraham, he was doing so to protect univesal health care, abortion and same-sex marriage. I just didn’t realize that a hereditary knight in the 18th Century was so progressive.
Used to be parents would protect their children to the death. Not any more.
Cannucklehead, did you get an answer to your question on Gary Anderson’s grant from Goodale’s Public Works?
It is a ‘unique’ item in that list, isn’t it?
Odd place for an abortion discussion, but . . .
As a practical matter, does anyone in their right mind really believe the Liberal-dominated Senate would ever accept a HoC-passed fetal protection law (assuming one ever gets out of HoC)?
As another practical matter, last I heard, Harper was not pro-life. Am I wrong?
You’re mistaken, ol hoss.
Here is a true story of a young Regina mother from The LeaderPost:
MOTHER DIES SHELTERING BABY DAUGHTER IN HOUSE FIRE
by Anne Kyle
A young mother trapped in her burning apartment building last weekend made the ultimate sacrifice to save her infant daughter.
Realizing there was no escape from the raging blaze, Linda Zeka swaddled her six-month-old daughter, Hanna, in blankets and sheltered her from the flames.
Ms. Zeka was found dead at the scene of the fire on Saturday that devestated her family and left two other familes homeless.
But the little girl survived.
“When they found her, Linda was lying on the floor nestling Hanna, who was covered in blankets, shielding her from the fire. The air trapped under the blankets is likely the only thing that saved the baby,” Adrian Leusink, a family friend, said.
Ms. Zeka, 28, died of smoke inhalation. Her husband, Arben Zeka, 34, remains in critical condition in hospital, and her three-year-old son, Noll, is being treated for smoke inhalation and burns to his face and hand.
“Doctors are saying it’s a miracle someone so young survived the smoke and the fire,” Mr. Leusink said, adding Hanna, who suffered burns to her face and right leg, is expected to make a full recovery.
D.J. McGuire, Stephen Harper is a good Man with a good Man’s values. Martin and Layton are men but the retoric that spews from their mouths are of no value. I do not know why either one of them use the term ‘value’. Value implies worth, love for, cherishing, …how could the attributes of abortion or ssm be ‘values’. Values are positive, the latter are realities Canadians don’t want to know anything about because we don’t like what we see.
If Canada is to turn the page on a guilty, dirty feeling within ourselves generated by the elected Federal Liberal government’s corruption, theft, lies and selfish greed; we must have a change of government. The Federal Liberal government, particularly the PM, represents Canadians on the international stage, we are ashamed of ourselves because we are not proud of our Federal goverment and the pmpm. We are only a few days away from establishing ourselves as a proud people with hope – if we use our real right to choose. Proud people always want children. We could solve a lot of problems in this country if we use our right to choose and vote for a good Man – vote for Stephen Harper Jan 23.
This is an all new low for Martin. Spewing lies about dead people.This guy truly would say anything. He has no honor. I’d like to see a video clip of this if possible. Or if someone can tell me if this indeed sounded as bad as it read.
I shouldn’t have said such love doesn’t exist any more, for it does.
That woman didn’t let the fear of losing her life conquer her love for her child.
Harper railed against the Liberals� for failing to stand with Canada�s traditional allies in the war on Iraq. So to appease his American Masters he’d have sent our troops to Iraq. The last time a Conservative government was in power, it oversaw a radical re-ordering of the economy. The Free Trade Agreement and its associated birthing pains, including John Crow’s infamous made-in-Canada recession, threw Canada into a turmoil from which it has only recently recovered. The Free Trade Agreement allowed American companies the unfettered right to buy Canadian companies and move production to the low-wage southern United States. For the past several years, the CD Howe Institute, the Fraser Institute, and the Canadian Council of Chief Executives (CCCE) have been using every excuse imaginable to explain how much better things would be if only Canada and the US shared a common security perimeter, or a single immigration policy, or an integrated North American defence system � that is, all the things normally considered the proper purview of a federal government. Until now, they’ve been held at bay by the Liberals’ lukewarm support for continentalism, but with the upcoming election, that could change suddenly. More american police and maybe secret prisons for the CIA, what would Harper do to make up with his American friends?
Sam,
Getting a little bored in the Liberal War Room are we?
Kicking the liberals out of office and returning to a rational dialogue is all the canadian people need to do. Harper owes his American “friends” nothing. It is Paul Martin and the Liberals who did all of the damage and would have to engage in concssions to make up for past misbehaviour with the Americans.
Ther e is a way to say no to the Americans on almost any issue. Spitting, showboating and throwing tantrums isnt the way to do it.
Black helicopters
In our skies
In Canada
Stephen Harpers flies in aircraft
Are they black?
but he’s not saying
Choose your Canada
See…
Paul Martin is the type of dictator who arrogantly tells Canadians what’s what. What we believe, value and want for Canada and Canadians is irrelevant to him. All that matters to Dithering Paulie Librano is what his supporters on the ultra-extreme left tell him to force upon the contry, the Charter be goddamned. All that matters to Liberals is absolute power, money, money, money via the totalitarian exploitation of this land and its people.
Send a resounding message. Throw the criminal scum out of office.
They want, in order to hold onto the votes of the ultra-extreme left, to place certain kinds of sexual activity and the termination of human life above the right to security of the person (via access to timely health care), which the Charter explicitly guarantees and which the Supreme Court has ruled is being violated by the Liberals. And to top it all off, Paul Martin wants to open up the whole Constitution and Charter, beginning with the ripping out of the very clause that guarantees that we won’t live in a complete authoritarian dictatorship.
The Federation will cease to exist under Paul Martin and the Liberals.
Paul Martin is not only frightening; he’s actually a very dangerous man.
And now Paul Martin admits that he really believes in two-tier health care after all.
That is completely clear.
Canadians do want freedom of choice in health care, yes. That’s also clear.
But it won’t work the way Liberals would put it into place.
Nothing they do ever works, does it?
Because they’re grossly incompetent imbeciles.
The Liberals are NOT the ones to be trusted. They’d find ways to corrupt the health care system to enrich their cronies somehow.
I didn’t make this up.
stephen
I have to say I agree that some should pay but do you really think Harper will close the loop holes that so many of his friends use? Will harper now help the US with troops in Iraq?
Have you read The associated discussion paper, “New Frontiers: Building a 21st Century Canada-United States Partnership in North America”, notes with approval that Stephen Harper “has called for a continental �strategic partnership’, one that would link freer flows of goods, services, labour, capital and technology with improvements in continental security.”?