Hyundai Motor is effectively withdrawing its planned 3.4 trillion won hydrogen investment in Canada.
This project wasn’t just a simple overseas investment.
It was one of the key cards in the ‘Team Korea’ package, centered around Hanwha Ocean, aimed at securing the contract for Canada’s next-generation submarine project.
The approach was that if Canada chose Korean submarines, Hyundai Motor would build a large-scale hydrogen ecosystem locally as well.
However, as the submarine project tilted toward Germany, Hyundai Motor no longer had reason to continue the massive local investment.
Win-Win.
Now Canadian sailors won’t have to learn to read Korean.
But they might have to learn to read the Koran.
The Korean sub may have been better, I don’t know. However, we don’t need no stinking hydrogen. Only to a champagne socialist grifter like Carney would this have been valuable.
entirely consistent with a mindset and strategy to hobble Cdn economy, military, infrastructure, social cohesion, EVERY TIME an ‘opportunity’ presents itself.
in this case, go with the option that REMOVES a $3,400,000,000,000 investment.
and still they vote for it.
are we well dekucf yet? getting there!!!
and still they vote for it.
A “hydrogen ecosystem” is not an opportunity.
What exactly is a “won hydrogen ecosystem” and why would it cost $3.4 trillion?
$3.4 trillion won – South Korea’s currency, or $2.8 billion USD.
Exactly. The physics of handling hydrogen are completely untenable. But this is from the family of intellectuals that continue to sing the praises of non-functional electric buses, aka Green IEDs.
an investment of 3.4 trillion ‘with a T’ sure is.
regardless of the intricate ‘details’
here it is again. it WAS an OPPORTUNITY to bring in a lotta money.
but PM Carnage failed to do his part. or maybe he ‘succeeded’ to thwart the investment/whatever which is *my* point.
you’re arguing semantics lm arguing it was deliberate.
A “hydrogen ecosystem” is not an opportunity.
Quite; it is a bribe.
Eek! A system!
Canada was going to piss off either the Koreans or the Germans with this procurement, so pick your poison.
One of those two countries isn’t committing industrial and societal seppuku (yes, I know whose word that is…) so it only makes sense that Canada picks the poison it has also ingested.
The Type 212CD is the more capable submarine for the arctic, and seemlessly interoperates with NATO forces. That was likely what put it over the top.
If so, it’s not a bad way to make a decision. The primary goal, after all, is to improve Canada’s military capability.
“The Type 212CD is the more capable submarine for the arctic, ”
Yes, if you only want to make short trips under the ice for limited periods of time. Nuclear boats are the only practical option for Canada if we want to make any serious and legitimate attempt to maintain sovereignty over the Arctic.
The issue here is Germany versus Korea, not diesel versus nuclear. But having said that…
Nuclear submarines are an order of magnitude more expensive than diesel, and an order of magnitude more complex and difficult to maintain. They are not in Canada’s budget.
The 212CD can stay submerged for 3 weeks without snorkeling or surfacing. That may not seem like much, but it’s enough to cross the northwest passage in winter.
I doubt functionality played much of a part in the decision. Nuclear submarines? OMG, that’s what those horrible Americans use.
roaddog:
As I said in my post above, nuclear submarines are exorbitantly expensive. There’s no need to guess why they weren’t chosen. No sane PM would have done so.
Please.
Hilarious.
How much DEBT have the Liberals incurred?
Here’s a hint.
A trillion seconds = 31688 years.
How much more are they forecasting?(which of course will be a magnitude more than they say)
Not just the FEDs.
Liberals everywhere.
All that cash that the Twit helicoptered to the Provinces was used by NB PC Premier Higgs to reduce the debt by billions. Which of course caused his ouster.
Imagine the Liberal wailing. All those free tax dollars and no Liberal taste.
Then imagine the Liberal election promise of balanced budgets. Ha!
Of course, first budget = Billion $ plus deficit. From a balanced/surplus budget.
(Obviously, moronic NBers didn’t like the old surplus budgets, debt paydowns, tax reductions, fee cancellations and generally half sensible governance.
With a quarter of the population being French, Liberals always have a head start.
Why any English person votes for the French/Quebec Liberal Party. Morons or crooks.)
With promise of billions more debt to come in ensuing years.(lowballed of course)
Liberal baksheesh restored!
What’s a few more billion of debt to Liberals?
Nothing.
It’s always about the politics with Liberals.
Always.
If you’re going to make a point, Barca, I recommend you do it succinctly. Posting something that looks like free verse poetry just makes the poster look like they have mental health issues.
Well, I thought that layout was rather attractive. Tasteful, indeed.
My bidet toilet seat was made in Korea … company name INUS … yep, speaking of translations. Perhaps Carney can negotiate some toilet seats for Parliament?
Well, Shirley we are going to get some concessions/bonuses from Germany, no?
Shirley?
Shirley!
And don’t call me, Shirley.
Clever use of a comma there, Jerry 🙂
Jerry must have read Strunk and Whyte’s The Elements of Style.
Experts say that the best and fastest way to bankrupt Canada is to keep doing what Canada has been doing for 11 years. And to keep the elbows up. Hahaha. Canada is so done.
Good news all around given that a “hydrogen ecosystem” is pointless and stupid. It’s right up there with “carbon capture” for pissing in the wind.
Not pissing in the wind; rather throwing money in a hole and buring it,
Heh…it was called “Project Beaver”, which sounds like a weekend goal at any University. You think the demand for EV’s is low…take a look at the absolute lack of demand for Hydrogen vehicles sometime. They are even less reliable than EV’s.
Interestingly, I saw that the benefactors of “PROJECT BEAVER” were mostly Ontario and BC. So, the goal was for those two provinces to get about 9.000 new jobs. All Alberta would get out of the deal was about 32 charging stations while BC got the charging stations and the liquefaction plant. Ontario would get the vehicle plant.
And, if you’re wondering what Korea is going to do with this now freed up capital. Why, they are going to invest in China.
Even in rocketry, hydrogen has lost out to methane in many commercial applications due to the ease of handling of methane as opposed to leaky hydrogen.
Are the Germans going to use Algoma steel for the subs like the Koreans were planning to? How about the Ontario Shipyards? Will they transfer the technology so that Canada can build their own, or will they all be built in Europe?
What was the quid pro quo that pushed the deal over the top? (the Nato Defense bank?)
I don’t know about the steel, but there is supposed to be a technology transfer so Canada can maintain the subs, hardware and software, themselves.
If the Americans become belligerent, who is more likely to send aid, the Koreans or the EU?
BTW, when Trump first got elected I didn’t think this way. It’s sad that I now do. 🙁
“BTW, when Trump first got elected I didn’t think this way. It’s sad that I now do.”
I know how you feel. Really…I do.
There are a few things that Trump has said and done recently that I don’t agree with, and I have never been shy about saying so. That said, he is still the best President in the last several decades (at least) and overall one of the best ever.
Finish the Iran war, stop dragging out the Ukraine thing and pass the vote reform measures by any means necessary (just like the Democrats would do). And above all, start INDICTING some of the Democrats who have been caught red-handed breaking the law.
(oh, and stop Tweeting out insults like a teenage girl every time someone annoys you)
Neither. Canada was always considered a strategic sacrifice. The Brits planned on just letting you hang out to dry and resist as long as you could with the hopes that we would get tired of fighting and more interested in using you as a chew toy rather than going after them.
Look it up.
Why would we become belligerent when Canada is committing suicide? We’re just sitting back with a cold one, waiting for the eventual collapse.
If the timing works out right, Trump could be the next PM.
A year ago I would have thought that a great idea. Now I worry for him.
If the Americans became belligerent that would be aid.
What do you mean
“became beligerent”if?If we become belligerent, it won’t matter. And, just to be clear, it isn’t Americans who are pulling products off the shelf based on point of origin. And, it isn’t America whose ruling political party is using a purposefully generated rift as the centerpiece of their political decisions and stances.
And, the Bundeswehr (German military) is in very bad shape. 30% under personnel goals. Massive shortages of ammunition, spare parts, tanks, ships, and aircraft. And, a $67 Billion Euro maintenance backlog. When the EU proposed sending a peace keeping force to Ukraine (Germany, France, and even UK forces) they estimated they could operate effectively for about 4 weeks before infrastructure issues started piling up.
That’s just military. Their economy and manufacturing are no better despite their reputation.
“whose ruling political party is using a purposefully generated rift ”
Well said as always, Orson.
They absolutely did do that, and our ‘Opposition’ party absolutely jumped right on board.
“If the Americans become belligerent, who is more likely to send aid, the Koreans or the EU?”
Neither…because they aren’t that stupid.
Yes. The question would be, which, if either, would make a credible and trustworthy mediator through whom to negotiate a quick surrender.
Neither. “Belligeremt” is also in the eye of the beholder. If the US get tired of a globalist colony which is used as a base for their evil on the northern border, and decide to address that situation, who could blame them?
Well to be honest 3.4 Trillion won is about $7.23 Canadian (ok really $3.2 Billion)
Hydrogen powered vehicles have been a greenie wet dream for a while but the truth is they are dangerous – hydrogen is the smallest molecule and can leak through the smallest holes down to the molecular level, leakage also leaves containment materials brittle and subject to failure, and is a low density fuel requiring large volumes for low energy output. There are reasons that hydrogen is not a serious energy source. That Carney tried to hide a greenie want into our submarine need is on him and his questionable judgement. South Korea did us a favour.
We already use hydrogen. It comes as a molecule, tied up with carbon. Hydrocarbons, as we know them, such as gasoline and diesel and natural gas. We burn the hydrogen and release the carbon as carbon dioxide, which feeds every plant on this planet, which in turn feed humans and animals. As CO2 goes up, the planet gets greener, crops get bigger, and the temperature does not rise alarmingly. So we do not see the Atlantic in the streets of New York, nor the Greenland or Antarctic ice caps disappearing, nor the total lack of snow that we were promised some 25 years ago. In fact, I read last week that the summer ice melt in Greenland has not yet started this year.
We burn both the hydrogen and the carbon, resulting in CO2 and H2O.
Ballard Systems in Burnaby has been teasing the world with their hydrogen powered vehicles for decades, unsuccessfully. While still in business, their grandiose dreams of a Hydrogen fueled world is far from a reality.
Remember Ahnold’s and Gordie Campbell’s Hydrogen Highway in the early 2000’s? No? Fun Times.
Hydrogen fueled cars are Lucy’s football to Charlie Brown society.
They’re not dangerous, since the H is in a composite fuel cell, and not stored as a liquid or gas, it’s not “dangerous” as gaseous storage like the infamous Hindenburg.
That said, once again, while on the subject, Marx Carnage has once again fumbled, this time on his own 20. Regardless of what we may think of hydrogen technology, it was a good investment in this country that has now disappeared, AND, most importantly, this country’s reputation has further fallen into disrepute and untrustworthiness.
“Regardless of what we may think of hydrogen technology, it was a good investment in this country that has now disappeared,”
I’ve talked to a couple of Toyota Mirai owners at my local gas station (one of only two in Vancouver that dispenses hydrogen). They *love* their cars, but wish there was a station in Merritt to fill up at so they could drive confidently to Kelowna, which is on the outside of their range.
What’s not to love? It’s an electric car that you can fully ‘recharge’ in *five minutes*.
You sum it up nicely, Fringe. I’d add that by this time next year, both Japanese auto makers (Toyota and Honda) will have left Canada. Their Factory Space will be set-up for Chinese EV’s…and they aren’t going to want any Korean Hydrogen trucks eating into their market share.
hold on hold on.
l misread that. ‘won hydrogen’ (? how do you win hydrogen?)
s.b. ‘3.4 trillion won’ ie the CURRENCY. consulting google currency conversion
= $3.2 billion Cdn
well that changes things heh heh
(see above)
Won is the Korean currency. And no matter the feasibility of the project, it would have injected some badly needed investment into your economy.
Now, the Koreans have been burnt. Not exactly a ‘winning hearts and minds’ moment. And…it comes on the heels of a now zombie USMCA, which isn’t going to help you get foreign investment either.
The German company that’s supposedly getting the contract would be Thyssen-Krupp. I wonder how the pro-Palestine faction in Canada is going to take it?
The pro-Palestine “faction”. UJ, I love your subtle jabs. That faction, as we both know, are estogenic, emoting simpletons, who react to the anti-American cause of the day. To think that they know or care about what to them is ancient history is laughable. Last year is beyond their historical grasp.
No, no, that was old history, and granted you are correct about that.
Thyssen-Krupp has come under fire in recent history for supplying war materials to Israel — specifically warships and submarines which have been used for military operations in Gaza.
So that’s why Koreans never order won ton soup. They think it costs a ton of money.
A 3.4 “trillion dollar” hydrogen ecosystem sounds like something out of Carney’s ass. Given the EU war mongering and hyped up expanded war with Russia, America’s continuing foreign adventurism and failure, NATO’s redundant existence, the UK’s suicide and imminent civil war, neutrality and isolationism is the only rational path for Canada. We should have a robust defense strategy that is tied to no other nation. Eliminating all gun control while controlling immigration would be a good start. No UN, NATO, Chinese influence and police stations, nor any other alliances, period. Our only real enemy is internal. Of course this is dreaming as we will tag along with the US or Europe and send off our youth in another idiotic war to be killed for the state, the coldest of all cold and lying monsters.
So much to comment on here:
1. I’m pretty sure Carney emits far more methane than hydrogen.
2. The EU isn’t war mongering, they’re trying to keep the war out of the EU. Wars on your own land are a wealth killer, even if you win.
3. America has not won the battle, but the war is not yet over. They still have a chance to quieten down the Iranians for a few years.
4. Regarding the UK, is it a civil war if the enemy comes from outside the country? Even if you welcomed them in?
5. Isolationism only works if you are self sufficient. Last I changed we don’t manufacture any fancy chips.
6. I’m sure eliminating gun control for law abiding citizens would be a great help in eliminating criminal migrants.
7. Eliminating undo Chinese influence would solve a large number of political and criminal issues.
8. Our real enemy is corruption. Solving that would solve so many other, criminal, political, and financial issues.
9. Have you checked out birth rate? We don’t have any children to send off to war.
jg, I would not argue with many of your points, but #2, doesn’t fly. The Eu is trying to keep the war going by any means necessary, it is the only thing keeping europe out of outright depression, and distracted. It also serves as a meat grinder if those in power decide they ought to reduce their military aged male population in an effort of self survival. Hardly their first rodeo on that front.
I was beginning to wonder what you were smoking.
The sun is mostly hydrogen.
And the sun shines out of Carney’s ass.
What a coincidence.
So he farts hydrogen?
You’ll have to ask one of his arse-sniffers. There’s no shortage of ’em.
Ah, he chews nails and he spits rust, he farts hydrogen and he shits moon dust.. the bards of Canada, at some deep Jungian level, are creating the Ballad of Mark Carney. It will be a landmark in Canadian culture when it emerges.
“When Mark Carney was a little baby, sittin’ on his daddy’s knee, his daddy picked him up and he threw him on the floor and said, ‘that bastard just shit on me, Lord, Lord, that bastard just shit on me…'” Clearly it needs work, but greatness requires the effort.
What a weasel Carney is. The Great Negotiator issued a statement yesterday saying that the Ontario wild fires are a direct result of the US’s ignorance towards climate change, and it is the US’s fault.
BUT, he purposely made the comments in French so it wouldn’t show up as a viral soundbite in the US.
Canada, with its legions of lazy, socialist, unionized slugs, are a fatal deterrent to international investment.
I heard they went with German subs because the men’s shitters come equipped with tampon dispensers.
Holy hell, 47 comments.
You guys need to push away from the keyboard and enjoy the weekend.
Raining like a SOB. Enjoying the weekend immensely… thanks to SDA.
Im drinking…
Me, too, brudda!
Kate. Yes. My wife sagely said the same thang.
Push away.
Rowed over 7 km this morning, visited Mom in the home, went and saw Odysseus at the theater (It was ok except for silly casting) Now watching the Tour de France on replay and crushing pints.
Nice work on the pints!
You struck the correct nerve, baby!
I don’t think there’d be much of a difference if they had won the contract to build “up to 12 submarines”. I seriously don’t think there will be twelve. I’m not even sure if any submarines will be purchased.
It’s always wise to purchase your defense hardware from the nation with the highest cost of electricity in the Western world. Germany is no longer competitive at the manufacture of anything.
Killer Marmot,
“Nuclear subs are too expensive” – “No sane PM would choose that route” – “blah, blah, blah”
You are such a dolt 100% of the time. Well, at leats your are consistently wrong on SDA.
Canada population – 42 million
Australia population – 28 million
https://www.asa.gov.au/aukus/australias-nuclear-powered-submarines
So, Killer Marmot, Australia is stupid?
““Nuclear subs are too expensive” – “No sane PM would choose that route” – “blah, blah, blah” You are such a dolt 100% of the time. ”
Yeah, but at least there is an amusement factor for those of us who know a few things about submarines. Google’s AI and all the others will give you the same information about the limitations of AIP boats, but here is a pretty decent article that goes into a bit more detail:
https://vanguardcanada.com/canadian-submarines-whither-the-arctic/
The only thing they don’t make clear is that those “two or three weeks” the AIP boats can remain submerged are *at low speeds*…higher speeds eat up the battery charge at a huge rate. So no, an AIP submarine is NOT “doing the Northwest Passage” like a nuclear boat could.
AIP submarines can stay submerged for 2 or 3 weeks at low speeds…nuclear subs can stay submerged for 2 or 3 MONTHS if they wish, which is a definite advantage for operating under a dangerous polar ice cap where the ice ridges, valleys and mountains not only block your passage but can shift to block your retreat at times. Only someone suicidal would try to take an AIP boat more than a few miles under the ice before beating a hasty retreat….they just aren’t designed for it.