74 Replies to “I Can See Russia From The 18th Hole”

  1. There’s understandably a lot of emotion being expressed on this topic in all media including SDA. The debate is becoming increasingly polarized. I like polarized, there’s much utility in eliminating those wussie centrists. On the other hand I’d like to ask the polarists two questions:
    1.What do you REALLY expect the USA or Canada to do beyond what they’re already doing; and
    2.What is the legislative/constitutional framework under which the “government” of Crimea is undertaking such a treaty with Russia? In other words what is the nature of the Crimean legislature, what is their constitutional autonomy?
    If you can’t immediately answer #2, then perhaps you shouldn’t be answering #1.

  3. 1. Give all Russian citizens 72 hours to depart Canada, US and EU countries.
    2. The same “constitutional autonomy” that would apply if 60,000 unmarked American soldiers were to invade and seize Newfoundland, appoint a known gangster as PM, and hold a hokey referendum to validate the criminal action making Newfoundland the 53rd state…

  4. Re 1: They cannot stop Putin’s invasion of Crimea but they can make him pay for it with a Cold War. Hence:
    Deploy missile shield to Poland, Czech Republic, Romania and Baltic States.
    Aggressively push towards inclusion to NATO anyone who may find themselves in the position Ukraine and Georgia in the near future.
    Provide know how and tech to those members of the grand EUrinal who want to reduce their dependence of Putin’s gas – shale gas in Poland and Czech Republic being perfect examples. This one is of course very tricky since it was the enlightened who put themselves in that position in the first place. Europe has other energy alternatives – nuclear, Norwegian gas, German and Polish coal etc and had they had brains and not listened to the green retards they could very quickly show Putin the finger.

  5. Let me see if I have this straight.
    You’re in favour of NATO expansionism. Yes? No?
    My turn.
    1) NATO was formed to defend against the Soviet Union, which no longer exists, so NATO has to create issues to continue its legitimacy. Instead of getting in the face of Russia by surrounding the country to the north and south with military bases, why is this zombie corpse still allowed to live?
    2) Mikhail Gorbachev went on record Monday stating that granting Crimea to the Ukraine was a mistake of the Soviet era. Therefore, the people voted in overwhelming numbers to correct that historical mistake on Sunday. As they say in western democracies, if you don’t vote, you don’t count.
    3) Russia has an international right to act in its self interest. Ukraine owes Russia $1.2 billion. Why doesn’t Ukraine just pay up, like Great Britain does?
    4) Russia is understandably wary of European expansion. It fended off invasions from Napoleon and Hitler, standing up against aggressive conduct. It now sees NATO as the present-day military heir of the forces it has rebuffed before. Those historical facts are ingrained in the Russian consciousness. It is not clear of the motives by the unelected parliament of Ukraine, but believe it’s a EU Trojan Horse and an existential threat.
    5) Ignorance may be bliss, but there are two sides to every story.
    6) Give it up.

  6. Ukraine’s statement at the UN that ‘16,000 Russian soldiers had been deployed’ across Crimea sparked a MSM feeding frenzy that steadfastly ignored any hard facts that got in their way.
    Especially unwelcome is the fact that the so-called ‘invasion force’ has been there for 15 years already.
    The media many trust described in hysterical tones how the Autonomous Republic of Crimea was under a full-scale Russian invasion with headlines like: “Ukraine says Russia sent 16,000 troops to Crimea”, “Ukraine crisis deepens as Russia sends more troops into Crimea,” as well as “What can Obama do about Russia’s invasion of Crimea?”.
    Facts, and ardent statements by top Russian diplomats were totally ignored by the western ‘war press’.
    Russian UN Ambassador Vitaly Churkin pointed to the longstanding 25,000 troop allowance while FM Sergey Lavrov stressed the Russian military “strictly executes the agreements which stipulate the Russian fleet’s presence in Ukraine, and follows the stance and claims coming from the legitimate authority in Ukraine and in this case the legitimate authority of the Autonomous Republic Crimea as well.”
    http://rt.com/news/russian-troops-crimea-ukraine-816/
    damn, doncha just hate it when reality gets in the way of good hyperbole?

  7. To add to my list above.
    Cancel all nuclear disarmament talks. Make Putin pay for upgrading and maintaining his largely antiquated arsenal. This will cost him a lot.

  8. You are actually quoting Russia Today. All I have left to say to you and the other Putinchiks is this: if the conflict escalates you will regret what you have said here.

  9. “NATO was formed to defend against the Soviet Union…”
    And Russia fulfils the role SU played in the past. Give them a Cold War they are asking for.
    “Mikhail Gorbachev went on record …”
    Could not care less about the thoughts of this old commie fart.
    “As they say in western democracies, if you don’t vote, you don’t count.”
    Not if the vote is invalid to begin with. Putin does not get to call a referendum in Ukraine any more than France does in Canada.
    “Russia has an international right to act in its self interest. … ”
    And so does everyone of her victims/neighbours.
    “Why doesn’t Ukraine just pay up, like Great Britain does?”
    So now Putin partitions Ukraine because she did not pay? Must be his manliness. You are getting desperate.
    “It fended off invasions from Napoleon and Hitler, standing up against aggressive conduct.”
    Historically Russia did much more invading than defending. Russia was Hitler’s staunchest ally prior to 1941. Russia provided the bulk of Hitler’s food and raw materials between until 1941. Barbarrossa would not be possible without Stalin’s generous help.
    “Those historical facts are ingrained in the Russian consciousness.”
    Too bad Russia’s bestial treatment of her neighbours is not.
    “It is not clear of the motives by the unelected parliament of Ukraine, but believe it’s a EU Trojan Horse and an existential threat.”
    Beliefs of a drunken Syberian horde are no reason for the world to endlessly walk on eggshells.

  10. Guys give it up. In a way I admire Putin. He has shown that the west and Obumbles have both no balls and are hypocrites. I like that Putin has put the perverts, the gays and lesbians, in their place and not run the country like they do in the west. Where is the outrage over China occupying Tibet? The west including Harper are behaving like a two year old throwing a tantrum. Remember what politicians do or say is not for the betterment of the world, but is for their own betterment.

  11. “if the conflict escalates you will regret what you have said here.”
    …and if it doesn’t, will you?
    Regardless of what happens it’s their situation, not ours.
    You willing to go over there and lay your life on the line for either ‘side’ ?

  12. Well said PeterJ. That pretty much nails it. Pantywaists could be an appropriate description.
    Funny thing about that 123% or 93%, or whatever the blazes it was. Three previous votes taken after year 2000 showed about a 2/3 vote to stay with Ukraine.
    It would be interesting to know why there seems to be a level of support for Russia retaking its former subservient states in any manner it deems appropriate.
    At least three deaths in Crimea already, one Tatar beaten to death, one Ukrainian soldier, and one uniformed without insignia Putin thug.
    http://www.kyivpost.com/

  13. exactly !!! This is something happening half way around the world from here, it doesn’t personally effect us, so get a grip on your emotions and show some adult tolerance of other’s opinions.

  14. “Why doesn’t Ukraine just pay up, like Great Britain does?”
    This reminds me of a CW song by Tennessee Ernie Ford (?, paraphrased something like the longer I work for the mining company, the deeper in debt I am to the company store. Putin has more than once blackmailed Ukraine over natural gas, as he is holding a hammer of gas supplies over Poland and other former Soviet “allies”.
    “Russia has an international right to act in its self interest. … ”
    Colonista, “And so does everyone of her victims/neighbours.”
    Bingo! Other points are also bang on.
    Doug, you are right. Putin is playing old world politics in an effort to regain Russia’s place in the sun and most certainly is no pantywaist. A strong Russia is not necessarily a bad thing if it realizes that the major danger to it is not the west, but the ME and its radical Muslim fanatics. Our leaders have not figured that out yet. But the Russia that wants to retake and incorporate its former eastern European slave states is a bad thing.
    I still cannot understand why some support Russia in this bullying of Ukraine. A grab bag of Ukrainian nationalists kicked out a suspiciously elected crokked Russian stooge. Hopefully the Putinists will change their tune if Russia makes a move on mainland eastern Ukraine.

  15. “Russia is understandably wary of European expansion. It fended off invasions from Napoleon and Hitler, … blah blah blah … .”
    I haven’t realized that Russians are the new muslims. Apparently their ambitions and fears justify them abusing their neighbours. And clearly their neighbours are supposed to be the good dhimis, close their eyes and think about Napoleon, Hitler and 1612 (the last time Russia belonged in Europe).

  16. Da, Da. Kind of like Germany invading Poland. All was good. Doesn’t affect us … da, da.

  17. Actually it was Germany and Rus.. ehmm Soviet Union that invaded. Olympics preceded that one too.
    And before someone objects, I am not comparing Nazis to Putinista. Nazis were highly disciplined, had spiffy uniforms and high standards of personal hygiene.

  18. The Russians and the Chinese are the only major powers who fully understand the muslim threat, and are actively willing to do something about it. We certainly can’t count on the Western ‘leaders’ being much more than muzzie bum boys. Choose your heroes wisely.

  19. You’re the first guy I’m gonna read in a thread about homebrew diesel or general off-grid engineering. And if you keep posting on this topic, one day eventually you’ll be right about something (infinite monkey theorem).. but that day is not today.

    Not only do ethnic Muslims account for 21-23 million of Russia’s total population of 144 million, or 15 percent, but their proportion is fast growing. Alcoholism-plagued ethnic Russians are said to have European birth rates and African death rates, with the former just 1.4 per woman and the latter 60 years for men. In Moscow, ethnic Christian women have 1.1 child.

    In contrast, Muslim women bear 2.3 children on average and have fewer abortions than their Russian counterparts. In Moscow, Tatar women have 6 children and Chechen and Ingush women have 10. In addition, some 3-4 million Muslims have moved to Russia from ex-republics of the U.S.S.R., mainly from Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan; and some ethnic Russians are converting to Islam.

    These trends point to Christians declining in numbers by 0.6 percent a year and Muslims increasing by that same amount, which will have dramatic effects over time. Some analysts foresee Muslims becoming a majority in the twenty-first century – a demographic revolution that would fundamentally change the country’s character. Paul Goble, an expert on Russian minorities, concludes that “Russia is going through a religious transformation that will be of even greater consequence for the international community than the collapse of the Soviet Union.” A Russian commentator he quotes envisions a mosque on Red Square in Moscow. The facile assumption that Moscow is and will remain Western-oriented “is no longer valid,” he argues. In particular, he predicts that the Muslim demographic surge “will have a profound impact on Russian foreign policy.”

  20. While China and Russia do their share of pandering to Islam, they also tend to be inflexible in mandating the supremacy of the state over Islam.
    An example of this occurred recently when a Chinese Muslim reportedly burned a Chinese flag. The Chinese authorities responded quickly and decisively….
    The message is quite clear. Muslims in China must make their allegiance to the state clear. And China is cracking down on any mixture of mosque and state by keeping government officials and party members out of mosques.
    Putin has said that Islam is an inseparable part of Russia tipping a nod to his Eurasian ambitions, but he has come out in opposition to Hijabs in schools suggesting that Russia should follow France’s lead and resist Islamization of public spaces.
    But that’s largely PR. Like China, Russia keeps a tight grip on its Muslim leaders, as it does on the leaders of all religions, who ultimately answer to the authorities. Official Muslim leaders in Russia can call for terrorism in the West, but never inside Russia. And what they can and can’t say is closely monitored and controlled by the authorities.
    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/how-russia-and-china-deal-with-islam/
    I don’t have to insult you to make my point, facts prevail. Don’t stoop to personal insults as in the end it cheapens your arguments.

  21. This thread is exactly why multicuturalism FAILS.
    Next the Hutu and the Tutsi will be on SDA threating to keyboard kill each other over some insult over grandma Obanga’s spoild monkey stew.

  22. There’s actually a young Ukrainian woman working in my office who has only been in Canada for a couple of years. She absolutely terrified as to what’s going to happen in the Ukraine.
    I asked her what was going on in her perspective over there, and she could barely talk about it. Wide eyed and ringing her fists in her lap she told me that she has relatives on both sides of the fence, neither of which wanted any trouble and wanted to peacefully separate to their chosen corners of the country.
    The number one thing she said is that both Russian and the west are making a mess of things; especially the foreign west and that they should just leave it alone so it can sort itself out on its own.
    Anyway, the shining Light of western Liberty faded a long time ago and the world knows it.
    We need to focus on our own problems and our own creeping tyranny before we continue pissing in everyone else’s business. The west is not the countries of our WW2 betters anymore. It’s become decadent and corrupt from the top down, full of meth heads and Prozac Liberals.
    We have no moral ground here.

  23. Well even a broken clock is right once a day. It is true that Putin is serious is about the upcoming civil war Russia will face when the population of muslim males age 15-35 reaches a tipping point. That is why Putin is importing anyone who want can pass for a Russian and is whipping domestic support into a frenzy. He needs to give his NASHI corps little victories like Georgia and Crimea to keep them energized. Anyone who think s he cares about poor oppressed Russians outside of Russia’s borders is of course a naive idiot.
    But Max, any historian who believes that Russia will turn muslim majority knows neither muslims nor Russians. When fecal matter hits the rotary device there, it will become a self cleaning oven on a bibli… errr Quranic scale. And let’s face it, as far as the outcome… well, to quote the realpolitik classic: pity both sides can’t lose.

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