Down The Primrose Path

Alternative Subsidy Ukraine 116 Comments

It seems Europe just can’t catch a break.

Swedish broadcaster SVT reported that the Swedish National Seismic Network detected two underwater explosions near the Nord Stream pipeline system on Monday.

“One of the explosions had a magnitude of 2.3, and was registered at as many as 30 measuring stations in southern Sweden,” SVT said.

Bjorn Lund, a professor in seismology and director of the Swedish National Seismic Network, said these two seismic events were explosions.

Here’s a map of the three leaks on the Nord Stream pipeline system.

Bloomberg’s Javier Blas said the size of the “gas leak is huge.”


Time to Rewind the Video of Joe Biden Feb. 7, 2022 ..🤔 – h/t Kenji

116 Replies to “Down The Primrose Path”

    1. It’s a rather bold pre-confession to a crime.

      The REAL question? Is this an act of WAR against Russia? If Russia, or anyone did this to a vital U.S. pipeline … you’d see GW Bush on top of an emergency vehicle promising retaliation. So what will Russia’s retaliation look like? How fast will this escalate?

    1. No kidding!

      I have no doubt that the Obama, err Bidinh Admin. did this. We … the unwitting 81M (sic) who voted (sic) for Bidinh did this. I thought these people didn’t quite like the permanent (sic) environmental damage done by fossil fuels spilling into the oceans? Now … their people … are deliberately causing an eco catastrophe. Huh?

      2. It’s pretty clear. Trying to pin this on Russia is nuts. They would be proud to easily turn off the taps, instead of destroying their own infrastructure.
        So, the US wants Germans to freeze? Are those Klaus’ orders to Bidinh?
        These people are psychopaths.

        1. “It’s pretty clear.”

          No it isn’t.

          “Trying to pin this on Russia is nuts.”

          No it isn’t.

          Despite Pootin’s bots reaching the fever pitch it is far from clear. I can see multiple parties that may be interested in doing this depending on strategy. Or it could be just pathetic Siberian construction standards. Either way it is a very interesting development, I suggest giving it some thought before pointing fingers.

          1. “Strategy”? “Strategy”? To deliberately freeze and impoverish the German people? To KILL German industry, hence destroying the economic underpinnings of the EU? To further spread the international PAIN promised by Bidinh? To FORCE the destruction of a carbon based LIfe?

            Since fossil fuels are Russia’s PRIMARY means of support … I highly doubt they would want to take those cards off the table. It makes NO sense.

          2. You need to unbunch your panties and decouple your political preferences from the analysis.

            If Pootin decided that there is no way he can force Europe into compliance with energy blackmail, then he may as well play scorched earth (or water) policy while maintaining deniability. “I’d love to sell you gas but evil NATO blew up my pipelines”. This gives him two benefits, again, as long as he maintains deniability. First, he can use this at home as a “proof” that russia is fighting NATO and further whip the domestic mongrels into compliance. Second, he wounds German economy while convincing a sizable portion of German population that NATO is to blame thus creating a fracture in NATO. Also, his fifth column in the West will squeal in perfect harmony.

            Seriously read some Machiavelli. For a guy who claims that Pootin is playing 5D chess, you seem to be giving him very little credit. I am not saying that this was what happened. I keep saying, wait and see.

            Other options. Well, “German industry, … the economic underpinnings of the EU” not everyone is happy with that. Not everyone wants EU to become German empire. Yes it could be Brandon, it could be UK that has very aggressive (and welcomed) policy plans in Scandinavia and Eastern Europe. It could well be Poland. All will deny it. At this point we don’t have a clue and only idiots jump on conclusions based solely on their pre conceived political positions.

            And that is all beside the fact that you are fanboying Pootin and I remain convinced that since the Siberian invasion has started those who in good faith support Pootin need to get their heads examined.

            Also, nobody in Germany will freeze. This is just hysterics.

    2. All three registered as a 2.3 earthquake. You really think the pipeline is functional, and if so, do you think the people who detonated three bombs to disrupt it will stop there?

      1. There is both too much and too little that can be read into the Richter scale.

        Richter scale is log, not linear. In basis terms a 3 is 10 times more powerful than a 2 which is 10 times more than a 1.

        The other thing is the scale is open ended. Small items falling from your desk and be recorded using the scale, as can be the footfalls of insects.

        So… a 2.3 earthquake? How would you know you were in one? Yeah, they are that small. Your kids jumping up and down in the next room may give the same effects.

        HOWEVER it did register, so the question to be answered is what caused this? Was it part of the pipe failing or an outside force (ie a bomb) that helped cause the failure?

        2.3 Earthquake reading is not in itself an answer. It is a recorded event that needs to be used as part of the overall study of what really happened.

        (for the record, three failures at once DOES strongly suggest some outside activity has taken part in my opinion. Failures happen, but very rarely in groups.)

  4. Well that pretty much eliminates the chance of European capitulation, which was coming with the cold weather.

    1. Never underestimate the ability of craven politicians to foolishly appease their enemies.
      Especially when they are European Politicians.

    3. No it wasn’t. Europe will experience mild discomfort during the winter. No big deal. Those who grew up behind the Iron Curtain remember rolling blackouts throughout the 80s. They happened during the winter, people put on sweaters, nobody died.

      1. Do you have any idea what your idiotic statement makes you? You’re nothing more than a communist useful idiot.

      2. So, the East Germans reported no deaths, and that’s where you’re hanging your hat?

        During the winter of 1931-2, and in similar conditions, over one million Germans either starved or froze to death. As a result, the Little Corporal took power in 1933.

        1. I lived through it, several years of it, in a country colder than Germany, that’s where I am hanging my hat.

          And where did you get that 1931-32 figure?

          2. It will take time to adjust Konni. They just don’t get to build a trading empire and suppress everyone else in Europe in exchange for fellating Pootin. After russia and Ukraine, Germany are the biggest losers of that conflict. Trump was right, they were asking for it.

      1. Obviously it was the US? Might be.

        Could also have been the Russians:
        a) who will encourage speculation that it was the US.
        b) to send a not so subtle reminder to the US that the US has a lot of vulnerable infrastructure.

        1. It *could* be Russia, but it would be so much easier to just flip the switch to turn off the pumps, leaving the option open to flip it back again to resume the flow of western currency when the current unpleasantness is over.

          This is a much bigger deal. Combined with the stupid words from the stupid US puppet “president” and the obvious overkill used, who else would it be than FJB (or, more properly, his masters).

          1. Ye it would be easier to turn the gas compressors on and off, but if you do so, Russia looks like the bad guy. If Russdia sabotages the pipeline, they can pin the blame on America, and make America the bad guy. Especially after Biden’s promise ” There will be an end to Nordstream 2. We will bring an end to it”

      2. Obviously it is obvious only to the blame blame American first, last and always Kremlin bots. Nothing is obvious yet.

      3. What is obvious is that it had to have been a super power with a submarine force capable of placing and detonating three explosive devices a mile underwater, and on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

        There are only two countries with the ability to do that, the USSR and the USA, so that limits the usual suspects.

        Let’s go to motive. The USSR is at war with the Ukraine, and NATO, with all of Northern Europe behind it, is backing the Ukraine, and sending along arms that have thwarted Russian tanks, planes and helicopters. Along with the arms, Europe has sanctioned Russia. Vlad the Impaler has warned them of consequences and then SHUT OFF the Nord Stream 2 pipeline… before what was left in the line was sabotaged, in an inland sea bordered by Russia. The sabotage is Vlad the Impaler letting the Germans know that they will never again recieve Russian gas or oil. Putin just shut down the gas station.

        Now to opportunity. Only a handful of nations are aware of where the pipeline was put down, and Russia is one of them. It runs for 114 km (71 mi) through Russian territorial waters to the Finnish exclusive economic zone, then past the (old Soviet) Baltic states and down to Germany. It is the sister pipeline to Nord Stream, and runs alongside it, but it was the only pipeline struck.

        It was a warning in typical Russian fashion. Blunt and brutal. There is no doubt who did this.

        1. “There are only two countries with the ability to do that, the USSR and the USA, so that limits the usual suspects.”

          I am completely no convinced about this.

          “Only a handful of nations are aware of where the pipeline was put down”

          Or that.

          Yes, it could have been russians, but you’re making faulty assumptions.

      4. Obviously it was Extinction Rebellion.

        Or Rebellion Extinction… Or whatever sub group they have devolved into this week.

        Hey, I have exactly the same amount of proof to back me.

    2. My money is on Russia.

      Easy to turn off the compressors, sure. But this effectively (permanently?) ‘burns the bridge’ with no conclusive proof as to who did it.

      It also removes billions of cf of pressurized gas from the pipes. Nothing more to deliver to the natural gas reserves of a stated enemy. Thermostats set at 10° this winter?

      If the US did this then isn’t that war against both Russia and Germany?

      Will the shiny Canadian repaired compressor will be deployed over to one of the new pipelines to China?

  6. How hard is it to repair or replace underwater pipelines? I can’t imagine that being a quick fix. Granted, I’m sure Russia wants to fix the line in order to keep the rubles flowing, and also note that you can’t threaten to turn off the gas if the gas is already not flowing. So there’s the blackmail angle as well.

    1. It’s hard but we’ll within the wheel house of those who do it.

      One major problem would be finding one of the very few companies who could do the work, to do the work under current sanctions. What ever company does the work will have a PR nightmare on their hands.

      1. If the lines were to be repaired one would think it would have to be done quickly to prevent corrosion damage from saltwater.

        I wonder if the Russians will purge the sea water with pigs and then pressure up a bit with nitrogen to minimize corrosion until everyone are friends again. Could only do that from the end they have access to.

      2. What ever company does the work will have a PR nightmare on their hands. – As opposed from saving people from freezing to death… Thanks to lying jackals in the media

      1. “It will be interesting to see the videos from ROV inspection of the leaks.”

        Exactly that. Unlike know it alls, I strongly suggest we wait with declawing who done it until we know more.

  7. Kate and Francisco,

    Thank you for your coverage of this breaking story. You seem to be a few hours ahead of my usual reads.

    1. Thanks for the update.

      I saw a report of a leak yesterday, but didn’t think much of it. Guess it should have posted it.

  8. Look at it this way, Putin no longer has any leverage over the EU, but they have plenty over him.

    Time to send MBTs

    1. Just wait till the newly impoverished, malnourished, freezing Europeans start gathering in the streets … your calculus omitted the group with MORE leverage than shithead politicians

    2. This Full Retard Remark has been sponsored by the Association of Asshat Truck Drivers.

    3. What MBTs, genius? Have you looked at how many of Germany’s Leo2s are operational? About as many as Canada’s – a few dozen. And it’s supposedly the strongest military in the EU. Stick with trucking and I’ll stick with the military stuff, seeing as how I’m a retired armour guy and know more about MBTs than you can hope to ever learn in your lifetime.

      1. Oh I bet out of the 3500 produced at least a few hundred are immediately available. Looks like quite a few have gone through recent upgrades.

        Abrams are a good option considering how many the USA have, but I bet the logistics needed to support them are nuts. Especially fuel. Is that correct?

        1. Leo 2, Germans don’t have many in storage that can be readied very quickly.

          Leclerck, there have been recent rumors about possibly a battalion worth of Leclerck being a potential option for Ukraine.

          Abrams, the turbine will run on anything that burns, from jet fuel to diesel to cooking oil. But it is more maintenance intensive than other NATO tanks. Also engines have shorter between service life span.

          Either way jumping into a modern NATO MBT, from a T-64 or a T-72 is not as straightforward s jumping from a Ukrainian T-64 into an ex Polish T-72. Experts estimate that the retraining would take at least four months and Ukrainians would surely need to send their best tank troops. Those troops are obviously needed at the front. Moreover, Ukrainian logistics are not designed to handle something as heavy as western MBT which are much heavier than russian or Ukrainian tanks.

          Poland could send about 200 more PT-91. But they will not do it until they replace their own ranks that got depleted with the tanks sent to Ukraine already. Frist batches of Abrams are coming soon to Polish Army, so likely more PT-91s will be transferred then. But we are talking about half a year at least.

          1. There’s 3500+ Leopard 2s. Most are outside of Germany, however they have been preventing others from donating those to Ukraine.

            Yes the Polish tanks are the best immediate option.

            Another one is to send Poland some of the mothballed Abrams so they can immediately send their current tanks to Ukraine.. then as they get their new tanks, send the mothballed ones to Ukraine.

          2. Alright, so Poland ordered 250 M1A2 Sep3 which is the top of the line version entering US service. The problem is that Poland will not receive those until 2025 or maybe 2026. That order was placed before the invasion of Ukraine, the initial plan was to use them as replacements for T-72s.

            After the invasion of Ukraine about 200 T-72s and few tens of PT-91s were sent to Ukraine, that is about a third of Polish tank force. As an emergency partial gap filler Poland has ordered about 120 M1A1 SA that have been recently mothballed, this will be bought at costs of bringing them back to service and transferred probably within next year.

            To further bridge the gap Poland is buying about 180 K2 Black Panther tanks from South Korea. These should be entering Polish service within 2023. With the transfer of K2s and the first 120 Abrams, Poland will be able to sent the remaining PT91 and whatever T-72s are left to Ukraine. So the best case scenario is delivery of say about a hundred sometime mid next year and the rest half a year to a year later. This is not an immediate solution for Ukraine.

            The long term plans is to replace all Leo 2s in Polish inventory with a domestically produced, unarmored version of K2 and then bring the first 180 K2s to that standard. With a total tank force being about 800 tanks. But this will take years to achieve. Poland will not be getting any more Leo 2s so eventual quick transfer of those for PT-91s for Ukraine will not work. It isn’t as much politics as the fact that Germans were only ready to transfer A4 version of the Leo 2 for which they no longer produce spare parts.

          3. Also to illustrate the training requirements. Polish crews are currently training on US tanks stationed in Poland so they can jump into the first batches of Abrams right away and thus speed up delivery of the remaining 72s and 91s to Ukraine. They are training now, to be ready to take over new tanks early next year. It takes time. And that despite them already having a lot more experience with western tanks than Ukrainians, as about a third of Polish tank force pre war were Leo 2A4 and A5.

            Also above post should read “uparmored” not “unarmored”.

    4. “Look at it this way, Putin no longer has any leverage over the EU, but they have plenty over him.”

      Then clearly Russian wasn’t responsible for this, right? Clearly.

  9. Occam’s Razor: Who stands to profit?

    US, Iran, China, Qatar, and Canada.

    Of that group, who is most likely attempt it? (In order)
    1. China
    2. Iran
    3. US
    4. Qatar and Canada

    1. I would ELF (Earth Liberation Front) to that list, but the odds are that they are not sophisticated enough to pull it off, and they have a solid position about causing damage to the Earth or animals (provided they are not human).

        1. Technically, I count Vanguard as China. They own over 200 Million shares in the Chinese military complex. And, the more I think about it, China is a good suspect in any sabotage efforts with a natural gas pipeline. Keep in mind that 7 of the top 10 Billionaires pushing green energy are Chinese (or Hong Kong…which is China now). Chinese billionaires are essentially operative slush funds of the Chinese state.

          Currently, the Chinese economy is an absolute mess and requires a massive influx of capital. They recently lowered tariffs on the US and as a result there was a significant increase in US export of Natural Gas to China. Most of theirs comes from Australia, BUT over the last few years they have sped up their own mining efforts and are in the process of switching away from coal to NG. How far along is a good question. Their unmined potential is HUGE. If they have been able to become self-sufficient under the radar (and keep in mind they care little for their own people’s comforts) they will move from an importer to an exporter. Taking out your biggest competition in the area (Russia) seems like something the Chinese would do.

    2. How would Canada benefit? True we have lots of natural gas, but the Trudeau Government, Torontonians, and Quebecers are against hydrocarbon exports.

  10. The Germans are so efficient. In WW-II they had to travel all the way to Russia to freeze to death. Now they can do it in the comfort of their own homes.

    In unrelated news, Germany has delayed the closing of two nuclear plants that power electricity for the country until April 2023. The plants were scheduled to close as Germany moves away from nuclear energy and toward green energy backstopped by cheap Russian gas.

      1. There’s a weather joke in there somewhere. Something about a “Russian front bringing cold weather to Germany”.

    2. Those 2 nuclear plants will likely limp into April 2023 at reduced power and with their oldest fuel reaching its discharge limits. They will not be able to run until they refuel, even if they wanted to. That will change if Germans announce they are suddenly buying new fuel for those nuclear plants. The only problem is that it will take years to fabricate new fuel for those reactors.

  11. Which country owns a stealthy sub that could pull off a stunt like this….mmmm. Its all big game, follow he money. The bottom line is the players don’t give a rats ass about the people.

    1. It was one of the junked British diesel subs, that the Canuck navy has been re-purposing for 20 years.
      They re-gendered it, to be stealthy. Fer sure!

      1. Actually the Upholders are very quiet. Besides you don’t need to be supper stealthy if none is looking for you.

    2. China and Sweden have very quiet subs. I believe there is also “passive” nuclear systems being developed.

    3. Which country has arguably most experience with mine clearing operation in Baltic to this day? Builds world class minehunters, operates a sub, has very well trained frogmen and invested heavily in underwater mine disposal drones… the answer, may surprise you.

      Just one of many theories. Just a devil’s advocate theory. Don’t jump on it if you solve the riddle. Besides if they done it, you will never find out it was them.

      Meanwhile Baltic Pipe is flowing.

      1. Could it be Sweden? Lots of experience from keeping the shipping lanes open during the second world war, and they were very adept at playing both sides if I’m not mistaken.

        1. Maybe but I am not thinking of them. Although they just elected a new government, I haven’t been able to figure out where they stand now and most information is probably misleading (witness hysterics around the new Italian government).

  12. Interesting that the explosions were so large? 2.3 Magnitude on multiple seismic monitors.

    If it was divers, IMO they would use a lot less explosives.
    1.) Divers can get right up next to the pipeline to emplace the explosives.
    2.) Hauling around hundreds or thousands of pounds of explosives by hand underwater is not easy.

    Could the explosives have been emplaced by a ship?
    Airplane?

    Submarine? This method really limits the possible actors. Russia, US, Britain, France, Italy, Sweden, Norway, Germany (are any German subs even operational?), Poland, others?

        1. Facepalm, Baltops ended in June. I has been held every year for decades. This year sixteen nations participated, there were 45 warships and 75 planes. Do you really think that this was the best time to screw around with a pipeline only to detonate it three months later? Do you bots ever question your narrative?

    2. rd
      The Dutch have excellent underwater capabilities. It was the Dutch that were the ones called upon when that Russian sub went down.

    3. “are any German subs even operational?”

      Yes German subs are very much operational. But I doubt they had anything to with that.

  13. The First Rule of Fight Club

    Nice catch, Kenji.
    Just another measure of how much smarter Donald Trump is than the fossil currently in the White House. Biden’s arrogance always overruns his brain.

    1. Shuffling toward war behind a lost old pedophile.

      Last year I read, “The Collapse of the Third Republic” which described French politicians ensuring war with Germany and the defeat of France. I wanted to reach through the pages to shake them and scream at them.

  15. 2.3 boom, is a professionally done job, most likely state sponsored, as that requires a lot of boom material, and needs to be placed on target .

    1. Until we see the piepeline leak sites on ROV video, we don’t know what actually happened.

      Would a pipeline burst (from say a serious defect) cause a magnitude 2.3 seismic event? I’ve seen a high pressure 6″ water line fail catastrophically and it was loud. Gas would have more energy.

      I understand Nord Stram 2 is a 48 in pipeline. Does anyone know if the Nord stream pipe was seamless, longitudinally welded, or ? Is it possible that a longitudinal weld let go?

    2. CIA to Germany: Nice pair of pipelines you got here; be a pity if something were to happen to them.

  20. Nobody wins when this type of shit starts.
    It’s not a great game and it’s not funny.
    I don’t care if it was the CIA, Iranians or Extinction Rebellion.
    Fcking with critical infrastructure is terrorism.

  21. Pres. Biden: “If Russia invades…then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.”

    Reporter: “But how will you do that, exactly, since…the project is in Germany’s control?”

    Biden: “I promise you, we will be able to do that.”

    https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1490792461979078662?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1574757764013883395%7Ctwgr%5E69fe59dd923ae2766f80b29effd0f453ab062fb6%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zerohedge.com%2Fcommodities%2Fdamage-nord-stream-pipelines-unprecedented-may-have-been-sabotaged

  22. False flag: Russia is mobilizing (albeit with difficulty… just recently, a military recruitment officer was shot from point blank at a conscription centre in Siberia), Biden’s clip is damning, and Putin has nukes and other goodies. According to Jeff Nyquist, “Putin doesn’t have a reverse gear”. As crazy as it may be, Vlad may be trying to find ways to start a confrontation with NATO (or US). Vlad will need time to train the extra personal (if he can conscript enough). Fun times.

    Meanwhile, Fauci is still criminal, Baric is still a criminal, etc. Lest we forget.

    1. Although the chain-smoking guy in the video was wrong about the depth of these pipelines, they are not profoundly deep and one is definitely in shallow water where it was bombed, he was right in positing this attack as an attack on Europe by the US government.

      It is a truely unfathomable move. I wouldn’t believe it but we have seen video of both FJB and Nuland saying they would stop the gas pipelines, months ago. I don’t think it was done because the US empire is failing, rather because the Democrats are looking for any diversion and critical panic to change the course of the next two elections, in November and 2024.

      This is one for the history books. Of course, I may be wrong and it may have been done by other people who also might profit from this, anyone from greens to oil companies. But I doubt it.

      1. Robert of Ottawa: This was my thought also the Bureaucratic Elite Oligarchs/WEF/USA are looking for a WAR to make sure NO primary elections this year and NO election 2024 are held in US…ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT…The Great Reset coming to the WEST!

      1. Yeah, US boats and helicopters in the immediate area in the hours leading up to the attack, not evidence, right?
        Oh, and people in Europe have already died as a result of their energy issues and inflation, and your minimizing of their misery is yet more evidence of your utter lack of morals.

        1. Yes not evidence at all, especially that you have no proof of them being there and doing anything related.

          People in Europe are suffering because bribed German politicians made a deal with Siberian Mongols. The sooner they free themselves from any and all ties with russia the better for them. Otherwise they insist on collaborating with enemies of civilization.

          And no, none has died because of energy issues, that is just another of your pathetic lies. Also, true to form, your vile hypocrisy has no bounds. Hundreds of thousands have died because of russia in the last half a year alone. Unfortunately only some of them are russian.

    3. “…gas belonging to Russia”

      Oh noes, russia losing money. Well I am happy to reimburse them with my gas, every day multiple instalments in their general direction, they need but to catch it.

  24. You don’t blow up your bargaining chip.. You put it into play.. That rules out Russia and Germany / Europe until evidence proves otherwise.. It was a act of terrorism and its sobering that it could be our own psychopath greens behind it..

    1. “You don’t blow up your bargaining chip.. You put it into play.. That rules out Russia and Germany / Europe until evidence proves otherwise.. ”

      Exactly. Despite the convoluted logical contortions of a few people here in a futile attempt to make it seem that Russia blew up their own pipeline, the facts clearly say otherwise. There is ZERO benefit for them in doing so, and anyone who really believes that Putin did it “so he would have an ‘excuse’ to shut off the gas”, really doesn’t know anything about the man’s personality (with an ego like his, excuses are akin to weakness; he does what he wants, when he wants, and to hell with what anyone thinks of it). He just lost the only real leverage he had (the threat of turning the gas off) and billions of dollars that he couldn’t afford to lose, not to mention the huge cost of repairing the pipeline. There is NO upside to this for Putin, none.

  25. The people who did this are psychopaths, the people who think it is a “good” thing are sociopaths.

  26. Conspiracy theory hat on:

    Two explosions on one pipe, one explosion on the second pipe? Curious. Anyone wants to bet there will be an unexploded bomb attached to the pipe that had only one explosion? And the attached bomb will be easy to trace, i.e. it was left there on purpose to implicate someone who did not do it?

  27. Could be NATO / US psy ops, as in “look how crazy we are already before you even go nuclear.”

    If anyone in the Kremlin inner circle was thinking of saying “ah they won’t retaliate” now that won’t sound very logical if it ever might have.

    Another angle to look at, my understanding is the pipeline(s) have natural gas in them now although none is being delivered downstream. That must present engineering challenges. Maybe somebody miscalculated, the main pipeline blew and then changes in the dynamics affecting the second pipeline blew that one. Just another theory among many being circulated.

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