The Left’s Desire for the Effeminate Male is one step closer to reality. Toys ‘R Us in Britain has succumbed to the pressures of an advocacy group and will ensure that all of its products are sold in a gender neutral manner. A preview of what this means can be found from Swedish retailer Top-Toy.
I really don’t have much to add,except that I really appreciate this site, and….
… way back in the 80’s ,before the internet age, it was either Ted Byfield or Peter Worthington that used to write regularly about the emasculation of the males in the education system. This was years before Gamil Gharbi’s little hate shoot.
This was before anyone came up with the idea that ‘keeping score was wrong’or’everyone must get a ribbon’.
Competition is necessary,as is allowing children to be boys and girls,separately. Homogenization is for milk.The TDSB(google BlazingCatFur TDSB)is the end result of celebrating rather than accepting differences.
There are exceptions,but we must embrace the exceptions for what they are,not try to blend all into bland. Bland is bad,at the best of times. When it is a desired result,we all suffer.
Bingo.
Boys will play with anything that has wheels and girls will dress up in their mum’s shoes. It is inevitable. The very liberals who claim science as their standard will repeatedly deny it.
There were no progressives back then by any reasonable definition. And of course, the definition you would use is subjective squishy nonsense such that Republicans of 200 years ago are morphed into contemporary leftist LBGT agitators.
So I guess that makes Lyndon Johnson a “progressive” then.
Yep, pretty much.
.. “
nottreating homosexuality as anillnessinate, immutable, non-behavioral, genetically pre-ordained protected identity group would cause society to descend…” and we’re good.I love how leftist agitation leading to government enforced product placement regulations in a store becomes a “progressive fight in the war to recognizing non-existent barriers between people”. That’s enough for a PhD thesis in left wing pathology right there.
We’ll find out if you’re right only after we remove deliberative, targeted marketing of toys to different genders.
Yes, and you’re arguing that against all the psychological evidence and parenting experience of people who are telling you you’re wrong.
Nobody tells kids how they are supposed to play. They just play. And they play the way THEY want to do it no matter what anybody says just as soon as they think no one is looking. It’s not a “barrier”, its human nature. Little boys don’t like to play with little girls because the girls are doing it wrong. Little girls don’t like to play with little boys because the boys are stupid. It’s the same in all manner of cultures, not just ours.
When little boys play with dolls they pretend the dolls are soldiers or secret agents or monsters, and there’s lots of bashing and fighting and yelling. When little girls play the dolls have tea parties or conversations, no bashing.
You can measure it. Many people have. You should maybe go learn about it instead of blindly insisting you’re right when you’re clearly not.
Oh, and you should get your money back from whatever course you took that’s got you thinking this crap. That prof was a freakin looney tune, dude.
It’s not government mandated in Britain.
How can you argue it’s possibly a bad idea to avoid telling a boy who likes to play with dolls that their is something ‘wrong with him’ or different about him because ‘dolls are for girls’?
When you say “psychological evidence and parenting experience” I think you mean “things I learned from watching TV when I grew up in the 60s”.
Actually I’m not arguing that, or anything beyond giving you the well deserved curb-stomping you came here seeking. Consider it a charitable act.. my way of giving back to the community. Sometimes there’s definite, assuredly-existent barriers between people.
One of the many problems with the mindset of the social conservative. Anything they were raised with and observed is the way things always were and always should be and they have no ability to think critically about it. “Marriage is one man and one woman! That’s how it’s always been and that’s what the Bible says” (even though one man with multiple women may be more historically common and also repeatedly endorsed in the Bible). “Girls like toy ovens and boys like toy cars!” (even though you can directly observe that all kids generally like the same toys, like rattles and car keys, until they are old enough to understand that they have a gender and should only play with toys appropriate for their gender).
You’ve argued very little and stomped nothing. You hate gay people and you hate people who don’t fall into your water-tight compartment beliefs about gender. You, like all social conservatives, are just on the wrong side of history. Again.
— “Now, during one more progressive fight in the war to stop recognizing non-existent barriers between people, including differences between children of different genders, here we have conservatives arguing that if boys play with dolls, society will collapse.”
“Differences between children of different genders” does not mean the same thing as “barriers”, non-existent or real. There are innate differences between the sexes. However, they’re not hard and fast. There will always a few boys out there who prefer to play with dolls, and it’s best to let them get on with it.
But if we allow ourselves to be dictated to by a “progressive” gang who claim to be fighting bullying but whose modus operandi is itself pure bullying, and who pretend to be opposed to conformity but who clearly would enforce a vicious conformity of their own, society will collapse.
— “We’ll find out if you’re right only after we remove deliberative, targeted marketing of toys to different genders.”
They’re not going to be removed. Companies have the right to market their products to different genders if they see fit. Period.
When I was a young lad no one had to tell me which isle in the toy store I wanted to go to.
It was the Lego Isle to look at the space ships and city sets than the action figure isle to look at GI Joes, transformers and Pro Wrestlers.
Than the isle to look at dinky cars and airplanes.
When I’d play in the back yard there was a big Ant Colony near the end of the yard in the back alley. I had my pretend air-force base setup and conduct bombing campaigns on the ant hill (carpet bombing, surgical strikes etc. (actually called it Hamburger Hill) I didn’t really to it with the intention to kill the ants, but the hill always regenerated itself whatever damaged I inflicted so it provided tons of fun.
Inside I had my cities with sky scrapers built out of Kleenex boxes, used Toilet paper rolls for smoke stacks on factories. Upside down waste baskets, made roads and freeways. Usually ticked off my dad because he would step on something in the night etc. When I had the cat come through, I pretended he was some big invader cometh to destroy civilization and had some green plastic army men to fight it off.
With my best friend we would be in his back yard hacking at each other with surveying stakes (pretending they were swords) and cardboard shields battling over his tree house as if it were some castle or something or riding bikes somewhere to explore and usually where ever it was we’d end up hacking at each other with whatever we could find.
I don’t think you could have honestly got me to be interested in girls toys even if they were marketed gender neutral, because I was a boy and I felt I had to build, explore, construct, design, fight and defend things.
As a kid I honestly thought playing tea time, skip rope, hop scotch, pretending to house keep or cooking with an easy bake oven or playing doll house and whatever else that girls did was so freaking lame.
You, like all social conservatives, are just on the wrong side of history. Again.
Heh, maybe you could point out when the effeminate have ever won a war?
And thus the left rejoiced as colours pink and blue were banned and society lurched toward a less colourful world.
What a silly comment. Progressives won on segregation, voting rights for women and other minorities, and same-sex marriage.
Go read my comments. I have argued that the state should mandate it. The stores in Britian because progressives won the argument. All good ideas have their time.
*have not argued the state should mandate it
“…But my guess is that a preference for toy guns over toy irons isn’t hard wired into boys and girls…”
And my ‘guess’ is that a preference for toy guns over toy irons is hard wired into most boys and girls.
NO, I know I’m right. I could swamp you with practical and anecdotal evidence but that would be superfluous and irrelevant to someone whose sole purpose here is to troll.
Then why do babies exhibit no preference for gendered toys before they are developed enough to understand that they have a gender and should play with the appropriate toys? All babies seem to be equally drawn to toys like rattles, keys, etc.
If it’s hard wired, shouldn’t boys be after trucks and girls after clothing on day one?
Again:
One of the many problems with the mindset of the social conservative. Anything they were raised with and observed is the way things always were and always should be and they have no ability to think critically about it. “Marriage is one man and one woman! That’s how it’s always been and that’s what the Bible says” (even though one man with multiple women may be more historically common and also repeatedly endorsed in the Bible). “Girls like toy ovens and boys like toy cars!” (even though you can directly observe that all kids generally like the same toys, like rattles and car keys, until they are old enough to understand that they have a gender and should only play with toys appropriate for their gender).
If you love a blog that challenges the popular bias of the mainstream media but call anyone who posts against the prevailing opinions of that blog a “troll” – you might be a conservative.
First of all, you are a troll. Yeah, like you’re here because of the wit and charm of everyone on this site. You should be but…
Never mind.
I’m willing to bet you neither have children nor work with them. Infants go for objects that stimulate their senses. As they get older, they will invariably go for toys termed as “gender-specific”. The brain-wiring and such. People adhere to beliefs like “gender-specific” toys and the traditional view of marriage because- well- they work. I would ask you to prove otherwise but I know you won’t. Intellectual effort is not your forte.
You brought up the Bible why? Oh yes, because anyone who doesn’t agree with you is obviously a knuckle-dragging conservative who thumbs through the Bible. That’s your flawed little narrative (read: intellectual crutch).
You’re a silly person and a troll. Do go somewhere else.
I come here to see a different political perspective from my own. It’s even shaped my view of things like gun rights. However, when something is obviously wrong, I like to point it out. If you can’t handle diversity of opinions, kindly just ignore my comments.
To address your points quickly:
-Most social conservative causes are religion driven. You know damn well those arguments have been made in the gay rights debates.
-No serious person can argue with a straight face that boys are “hard wired” to like toy trucks. They’ve only been in existence for 100 years, so any ‘hard wiring’ predates their existence. Moreover, boys are told from day 1 that they like trucks. For decades, women were repeatedly told they were ‘made’ to be nurses, not doctors. Now they dominate med schools. Knowing what’s hardwired and what’s not is extremely difficult to discern. Telling a person how they are ‘hard wired’ can only be harmful. Let them figure it out for themselves.
-You use insults and make weak, non-rational arguments to annoy me. But I’m the troll.
“…One of the many problems with the mindset of the social conservative….”
HEE, Heeee, Heeeeeeeee……
Okay. I’ve got my beer and venison jerky….now please continue with the analysis/enlightenment.
Try spending some time with kids.
Then get back to us.
Hi Jamie MacMaster — how nice of Miles1996 to push my analysis along. “I spent time with kids so I know what’s innate and what’s not”. Very typical of the social conservative mindset of “what I know to be true of people in my very limited experience is the universal truth about an unchanging, fixed human nature.”
Women don’t like voting or participating in the democratic process because my wife doesn’t, women can’t be good astronauts because I’ve never met a woman smart enough to be an astronaut, one-man one-woman is the natural state of affairs because all of my friends are straight, etc.
Breathless I am…please don’t stop now.
I’m waiting for Osumashi Kinyobe to call you out for trolling.
Trolling? Hardly. I’m starved for enlightenment. Pease continue.
OMG. Is this idiot still rattling on? And still has zero legit evidence posted to back up his twaddle? And has begun repeating himself too.
Here, try this: Search term, “gender differences in play behavior”.
That will get you -hundreds- of observational studies on the subject. I’m not posting any of them, you get to go do your own reading. Here’s a hint for you, since you’ve evidently never researched anything in the science literature before: start with the abstract.
Long story short troll boy, they don’t agree with you. You want to continue this, maybe you should find some data that support your opinion.
One of the many problems with the mindset of the social liberal is that facts mean nothing to them.
Progressives won on segregation, voting rights for women and other minorities…
Isn’t that odd, it was the Democrats who were opposed to desegregation. Same with the women’s vote…
Conservatives gave women the vote in Canada.
I’ve read a fair bit on this lately. One of the major sources of gender differences in play is culturally imposed separation (of which marketing of gendered toys is a factor). So is family and parenting (again, not innate but tendencies passed on socially). None of the sources are conclusive. We don’t know if it’s nature or nurture or if its some kind of interplay between both.
It’s my position that we can’t know and so we shouldn’t impose it. Let kids pick.
“I’ve read a fair bit on this lately.”
Oh goody. I have a degree in it. So do some of the other people here you’re dismissing as “social conservatives”. Too bad ET’s not here, she’d give you a PhD short course in it.
Did you read the studies dealing with gender differences in children less than one year old? They’re instructive.
“We don’t know if it’s nature or nurture or if its some kind of interplay between both.”
Its obviously both nature and nurture, O great sage. Nurture -changes- nature. The very structure of the brain is physically altered in childhood by such relatively minor things as exposure to music at an early age, or as adults, learning a new sport. Oh, and male brains differ from female ones. Structurally. You can see it in CAT scans.
Then there is the amazing differences wrought by such miniscule alterations of the genome as Asperger’s Syndrome, for example. One (1) genetic marker alters the entire way Asperger’s kids minds work. Nature demanding a different nurture.
You think the presence or absence of a whole fricking chromosome might make a little difference?
So yes, it matters what you teach little kids and when. It matters what kind of toys they prefer. It matters if they are boys or girls. It matters a lot. The tabula rasa is a lie old socialists tell their students because it fits the agenda, not because there’s a scrap of truth in it.
There’s a difference between actual scholarship and “I’ve read a fair bit”. The towering arrogance of you just scunners me. How utterly like a Lefty. Nobody knows nuthin’ but you. Genius.
You hurl insults but you’ve reached the same conclusion as me — it’s really unknowable. My position is “we don’t know, better to not impose”. Do you disagree with that?
By the way, we all know the blank slate isn’t true. Few progressives are that post-modern.
“The stores in Britian because progressives won the argument.”
When the store owners come to their senses, I hope the progressives will un-win the argument again.
The “progressive” stand on most issues is coercive, that is, uncivilized. The regulation of advertising over issues as trivial as this is a good example.
(Notwithstanding the omission[s] and misspelling in the quoted comment, I think I know what it is attempting to say)
Is ‘you might be a troll’ still here?
bad ET’s not here, she’d give you a PhD short course in it.
I wouldn’t put too much stock in ET’s, or your, ‘short course’. Neither one of you know that a 6 year old child can easily understand the concept of socialism. Which isn’t surprising, it’s basically a child’s concept encapsulated by the statement ‘it’s not fair…’
That would be a first. Doublespeak at it’s basest. I’m still waiting for the day when a declared leftist position turns out to be something other than its exact opposite.
Apparently. Now he’s trying to pretend I agreed with him. Reading comprehension really is a problem for these guys.
Stradivarius, I guess I know smarter kids than you do. I’ve seen four year olds get it about socialism. Six year olds are on to binary math and Boolean algebra. And shooting.
See? Intelligence does matter.
As to ET, she’s worth five of you. Just because you can’t follow the argument doesn’t mean it isn’t valid.
I’ve seen four year olds get it about socialism.
Heh, that isn’t what the ET groupie said last time.
Intelligence doesn’t matter nearly as much as wisdom, as ET and her groupies repeatedly demonstrate. How’s that arab spring ‘economic mode’ coming? lol
Today the right wing position is “we don’t have the evidence to impose, but let’s do it anyway because we always have”.
Both conservatives and progressives have used coercion to get their way. I admit we had to force people against their will to desegregate, let women work outside the home, get people to stop hitting their kids (still working on that, and to get you to allow same-sex marriage. But that was really all just undoing existing conservative coercion.
You don’t have a position other than “I have a B.A. in a liberal art (psych) so I’m right and you’re wrong and stupid”.
Are you really telling me you don’t have a problem with advertising toy kitchens and toy irons to exclusively to girl?
“Are you really telling me you don’t have a problem with advertising toy kitchens and toy irons to exclusively to girl?”
Yes. Because that’s who likes to play house. Girls. Duh.
Are you really telling me that forcing toy stores to advertise the way -you- want is “we shouldn’t impose it”? That’s bold even from the likes of you. You propose not imposing by imposing. Genius.
By the way, “Let kids pick” is typical Leftist balderdash. They -can’t- pick. Because they are -children-. One of the definitions of which is being incapable of making an informed decision. They need parents to teach them how to be. Two parents, one of each kind. Its a biological imperative, not a fricking political policy.
All you are suggesting is that the government or some other “enlightened” body take parents out of the picture and impose your reality instead. The one where girls play with the toy guns and trucks, and boys play with the iron and the Easy Bake Oven.
Let me tell you what that looks like. The trucks sit around in a circle while the guns serve the tea. Pinkies out, don’t forget. Meanwhile the iron is secretly a ray blaster and the oven is a disguised space ship defending the universe from invisible bad guys.
Girls do not chose to be girls. They -are- girls. Boys likewise. They do what they do regardless of any effort you and your little friends may make to change it.
The most you can accomplish if by magic you get every iota of what you want, is to seriously p1ss off one (1) generation of children. It will only be one generation because they’ll come for you when they get big enough. They’ll never let you at -their- children.
Why do you think home schooling and hippie punching are so popular these days?
Think I hit a nerve with the B.A. comment. You’re not even making sense anymore.
I’ve already said toy stores should chose, and good on those who decide to be progressive.
You directly contradict yourself when you say “girls like to play with house” then say “children can’t chose and adults should teach them how to be.” O
Comment held under the name anonymous-please release. Thank you.
My daughter loved clothes from the time she could sit up, before she could crawl properly-dragging herself along, she headed straight for the girls clothes pile at 4 months of age. She would crawl into donated boxed of girls clothing given to us (had two boys already)and play with them for hours-placing the different textures against her face and trying to pull them over her head onto her body. She escaped out of her stroller when 15 months old in a small town department store-I found her in the girls clothing section where she’s already stripped to her diaper and had pulled a pile of clothes off the rack to try on. She didn’t like playing with dolls or playing house, she preferred drawing pictures of dresses, making life size paper outfits, and playing dress up. Today she is manager of a clothing store and has more clothes and shoes than a Hollywood starlet. She’s recently taken up sewing in a big way.
At 4-5 months an infant is not cognizant of their gender, yet she v-lined towards female clothing and shoes-completely ignoring the male clothing.
Tell me this, why then do parents and so called professionals claim a child is born in the wrong body using toy and clothing choices of these children as proof? In the progressive world, toys choices are not gender neutral when they are used to support giving children hormones to change their sex. Hypocrites the lot of them.
you might be dyslexic said: “You directly contradict yourself when you say “girls like to play with house” then say “children can’t chose and adults should teach them how to be.””
My my, you really have a reading comprehension problem don’t you? Very common amongst your people. I’ll try again with smaller words, ok?
Point was, my reading challenged Lefty, that girls play house. They play house with dolls. They play house with Hotwheels cars. They play house with sticks on the front lawn. Because they’re girls.
This is a cross-cultural observation. A girl from the Serengeti would sooner play house with a girl from Sweden than play hunting with a boy from her own village. Because she’s a girl.
She doesn’t chose to be a girl. She is one. She will play house. She will do it in the style of her culture, but house is what she will be playing.
You can dress her like a boy, give her a boy name and make her play with boy toys, but she will still play house when you’re not looking. And she will grow up really, really weird.
There’s ample evidence to support this. Hundreds of studies in psychology, medicine, anthropology, sociology. Which you have not read. Because if you had, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Some of those studies are marketing related. External reality check, that’s why toy stores have the toys separated by gender. Because they are in business to make money, and they make more when there’s a pink sparkly girl’s section and a blue gnarly boy’s.
You’re trying to make this some kind of culturally imposed construct, but its not. If it was, Mattel would be making millions exploiting that fact. These morons at Toys R Us in England are playing along to avoid picketing and violence outside their stores. As soon as they have two bad quarters in a row, the morons will get fired and the pink girls section will quietly go back up.
Regarding parents, there’s reams of data that show two parent families with extended clan support do the best job of raising healthy and functional children. Which you haven’t read either, I assume. Two parent families is where children learn their culture and model their gender roles, so they can be successful as adults.
Lets have another external reality check, shall we? If you were right, boys from homes with only a mother would model girl behavior and play like little girls. That doesn’t happen. They remain boys. But because they have no men to model from, they grow up weird and uncivilized.
And again, you are clearly not interested in letting toy stores “chose”. They already chose. You’re interested in picketing them until they capitulate and do it your f-ed up @ss-backward way. No matter that its doomed to failure, and no matter how many kids and parents get damaged in the crossfire. Because that’s what socialism is about. Forcing people to go against human nature, at gun point.
But please, feel free to pretend I’m contradicting myself again. Try harder this time, eh? Oh, and maybe support your argument a bit. So far you’re like a Monty Python skit.
If I made up studies without linking to a single one of them, I’d probably look like I have stronger argument. The truth is pyschology isn’t a science and your B.A. is worthless.