Law bans cash for second hand transactions. (h/t Larry)
33 Replies to “The Decline And Fall Of The American Empire”
haha, gotta have a law to prevent robbery…or wait, I thought there were already laws for that. Give me more government!
Those Acadians seem to be having a run of bad luck…at least they have the bayou…
Absolute idiocy. Just had a look at the front of a US $20 bill and there’s a statement there: This note is legal tender for all debts public and private. I suspect that the LA law is infringing on federal powers but perhaps some US posters might have more insight into the legality of such moronic legislation.
Unfortunately we don’t have anonymous Ecash for internet ordering although this is available in Europe. Here I’m forced to use my credit card. I have no desire for the government to know what I buy and when so all of my transactions are conducted in cash. I’ve had a few strange looks from store sales staff when I purchase a $1500 item and pay for it in cash; I make sure to carry at least $2 K in cash on me in case I do get the sudden urge to buy a new laptop. Also, a lot of tradespeople are quite happy to be paid in cash as it saves them the hassle of sending out bills. The only complaint I have about cash is that $100 bills are now too small a denomination and we need the $1000 bill back as that would take up much less space in my wallet.
As far as the morons who rip out telephone cables to sell as scrap metal, they can be charged as terrorists and sentenced to an indefinite stay at Gitmo; that is if they survive the arrest procedure.
A guy who deals in used goods hasn’t had any stolen goods in 8 years?
I understand the reasons but it’s pretty petty.
@Scar I believe he was staying that his store has not sold something that was a stolen item in 8 years…meaning they have this under control already.
This Yank agrees with Loki. “This note is legal tender for all debts public and private”. The first businessman that gets slammed with this Big Brother municipal ordinance is going to appeal the inevitable municipal criminal court conviction on the grounds of unconstitutionality and also sue the City of LA for major damages. The arrogant City Council will fight it all the way, after all they’re financing the battle with taxpayers’ money, and ultimately lose.
Certain losers, the taxpayers of LA.
Certain winners, the lawyers who take the defense criminal and civil suit case on contingency.
I am getting some engine work done on my Mustang. Tax is going to run about $1000.00 Haven’t seen one politico over there spinning a wrench. Makes me gag, in indignation.
@Dave:
Actually, I thought the same thing when I saw this, so I did a search. http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx
Apparently, this would be a state-level thing. Stupid, but as far as this would indicate, not stepping on federal toes. This does, however, make me think of the whole “only criminals will have guns” thing.
More useless politicians making more useless laws.
Just to be seen to be doing something. They never figure their are consequences unseen. frankly because they never effect them.
Who is John Gault?
In justifying this as an investigative tool for Police to detect/track stolen goods, it’ transparent but unmentioned is the intent to facilitate tax.
The black market is adept and experienced…and without outlawing cash transactions this will not work. Having to account for the cash in your pocket will not be popular….
It is in fact a start down the slippery slope to allow the govenment to further mind everybody’s business.
Anybody else notice that the unproductive bits of our society seem to have an overarching desire to take as much as they can from the productive bits?
Not surprised, yet it’s troublesome to see this development.
Back in 1975, my math text book’s introductory section stated outright that society would be cashless in the future; as early as within 25 years. I recall being disturbed at the time as I was reading everything on biblical prophecy I could get my hands and was astounded to see some of the experts on the topic predictions confirmed.
In justifying this as an investigative tool for Police to detect/track stolen goods, it’ transparent but unmentioned is the intent to facilitate tax.
The black market is adept and experienced…and without outlawing cash transactions this will not work. Having to account for the cash in your pocket will not be popular….
It is in fact a start down the slippery slope to allow the govenment to further mind everybody’s business.
Posted by: sasquatch at October 20, 2011 2:23 AM
Bingo.
The state can dress it up any way they want, but this has everything to do with taxes and nothing at all to do with stolen goods transactions.
Wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Dildo McDinky’s cash-starved government tries something like this. They already have the HST police sticking their noses in estate auctions and yard sales.
But, as the old saying goes, when you build a better mousetrap, the mice get smarter.
Sasquatch nails it. The IRS will soon be coming to your door for their cut of your garage sale profits.
It’s like paying HST on a second hand car; government gets their money every time that car is sold no matter how many times that car changes hands. And forget about the $1 car you sold to your kid, in Nova Scotia you have to pay their estimate of what it’s worth if the bill of sale looks like you got a good deal.
The law is unenforceable, and will be ignored. About as effective as legislating water to flow uphill. Cash transactions will simply morph into an exchange of gifts.
All those stories about wheelbarrows full of money to buy a loaf of bread never made it to Louisiana’s eggheads.
People will just switch to gold, Pesos or Loonies, and the US dollar will fall like Zimbobway’s in the second hand market. Just like the econ 101 examples of cigarettes used as money in prisons. The underground economy will go deeper.
Perfect example of legislative over-reach, and it demonstrates the genius of the American system. This law is -obviously- unConstitutional and can’t possible survive a legal challenge.
In Canada of course, it would be another story. Just another thing that sucks about Canada.
From Mark Steyn’s After America: “In the years ahead, for many poor Overdocumented-Americans, living in the Shadowlands will offer if not the porspect of escape then at least temporary relief. As America loses its technological edge and the present Chinese cyber-probing gets disseminated to the Wikileaks types, the blips on the computer screen representing your checking and savings accounts will become more vulnerable. After yet another brutal attack, your local branch never reconnects to head office; it brings up from the vault the old First National Bank of Deadsville shingle and starts issuing fewer cards and more checkbooks. And then fewer checbooks and more cash. In small bills The planet is dividing into two extremes: an advanced world – Europe, North America, Australia – in which privacy is vanishing and the state will soon be able to monitor you every second of the day; and a reprimitivized world – Somalia, the Pakistani tribal lands – where noone has a clue what’s going on….. As Documented America fails, poor whites, poor blacks, and many others will find it easier to assimilate with Undocumented America, and retreat into the shadows. It will not merely be states and sub-state jurisdictions that secede, but individuals, too.”
The banning of cash transactions in commerce is the start of economic tyranny. Taken to its natural extention a cashless society will be helt totally hostage to those who run the system – not only will you pay a tax to engage in commerce but if you transgress any regulation or la you can be impoverished with a key stroke. IAmericans allow this they are doomed!
You would think this violates federal statutes regarding the right to pay debts using legal tender.
And who exactly is it stealing metal and other goods to sell for cash at pawnshops?
Not drug addicted welfare entitlement recipients or illegal immigrants crossing open boarders perhaps.
As always the Liberal loons create a problem then control the law abiding citizens in an effort to deflect the blame from themselves. Meanwhile western societies slowly spiral into the Third World.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness…..”
The revolutionary spirit that produced that declaration appears non-existent today. King George the Third was a libertarian compared to the evolved level of state intervention described above. A century of progressivism has created an entitlement mentality approaching majority status advancing through corrupting democracy. The election of 2012 will likely be the last chance at democratic resolution. If not, see Steyn’s latest book.
Rocketgirl gets it right!
The only way this law can be enforced is by banning cash. I assume the government was State trying to squeeze more money through taxation, but they will simply drive more cash business to, well, cash businesses who will not file any tax forms.
… or is it a ploy by credit card salesmen? Very sleezy
Buyer: Will you take $20.00 for that old coffee table?
Seller: Yes, I will. But as I don’t have a personal credit card or debit machine for this
garage sale, by law, you’ll have to pay by cheque.
Buyer: Fine, I’ll just sign the back of this $20.00 dollar bill.
============
Once the government has made the use of cash illegal, then it’s easy for them to have the power to “approve” of everything you buy or not.
That’s more power than even George Orwell was able to imagine in 1984.
“Who is John Gault?”
Somebody who knows how to spell his own last name (hint: there’s no ‘u’) 😉
I live in Louisi-Yana. They will never be able to enforce this. Just in my lil college town there aren’t enuf cops to cover the 3 – 4 dozen yard sales every saturday. Besides, they are not about to give up their speed trap cash for a poke in the barrel. The congresscritter who footed this bill lives in the big city and has no clue how the back country works. Come this weekend we are gona vote some of these cats out.
The last sentence of the article …. “Pawn shops have been forced to keep records of their clients for years. However under this bill they are still allowed to deal in cash.”
Doug MacDiarmid
So what is it? Allowed to use cash or not?
I guess that states can pass commerce laws … but I’d like to see a federal response to this.
Of course … given the current federal government ……………
Black Mamba,
You beat me to it. I’m just reading Mark Steyn’s book, and it has some pretty chilling prophecies. But I think he is right, when he talks about how the state is more and more involved in all aspects of our lives, and it will not end well. The bureaucrats have to justify their own existence.
Different subject, sort of, but reminds me of my brother and sister-in-law, who are all in favour of tax increases (endless it seems). I could never quite figure out why they were so stupid, until I read Steyn’s book. He says if you talk to a government worker (the new elite) of course they are in favour of higher taxes….have to keep those wage increases coming! And yes, the in-laws both work for the government.
So, Louisiana’s new law is just another layer of bureaucracy, another rule used to control the productive people of society. Scary stuff. I highly recommend Steyn’s book, by the way.
Who is John Gault?”
Somebody who knows how to spell his own last name (hint: there’s no ‘u’) 😉
Edward Teach at October 20, 2011 1:57 PM
That’s the colourful Canadian spelling, Eddy
A cashless society is necessary to implement a tax on wealth. All income and expedintures will be by electronic transaction and visible to the government. At the end of the year any wealth accumulated and saved will be taxed. All wealth will be registered, including all hard goods bought, and ready for confiscation. There will be no hiding of wealth. This is my guess to where we are heading.
Canadians are well on the way by happily using debit cards for every tiny transaction such as buying a coffee at Tim Hortons.
navy island notes: Canadians are well on the way by happily using debit cards for every tiny transaction such as buying a coffee at Tim Hortons.
If there is one thing that pisses me off the most in my daily life it is the morons who insist on using a debit card to buy small items. I deal with cash only and have had a frustrating time with my bank trying to get the debit card portion of my bank card disabled. Something I have never used and have no plans on using.
The best way I can see to piss off a statist now is to use cash for all purchases. Yes, it does mean going to the bank machine periodically to top up, or you can just save a lot of bank trips with a withdrawal of $9999.99 less often. It’s amazing the discounts one can get in some places when one mentions that a receipt for the transaction isn’t needed.
I live in Louisi-Yana. They will never be able to enforce this. Just in my lil college town there aren’t enuf cops to cover the 3 – 4 dozen yard sales every saturday. Besides, they are not about to give up their speed trap cash for a poke in the barrel. The congresscritter who footed this bill lives in the big city and has no clue how the back country works. Come this weekend we are gona vote some of these cats out.
Also, I highly doubt the law would survive the first attempted prosecution/fining of a storeowner who broke it. The benefits aren’t likely worth the bad publicity and the threat to many LA politicians’ political careers.
haha, gotta have a law to prevent robbery…or wait, I thought there were already laws for that. Give me more government!
Those Acadians seem to be having a run of bad luck…at least they have the bayou…
Absolute idiocy. Just had a look at the front of a US $20 bill and there’s a statement there:
This note is legal tender for all debts public and private. I suspect that the LA law is infringing on federal powers but perhaps some US posters might have more insight into the legality of such moronic legislation.
Unfortunately we don’t have anonymous Ecash for internet ordering although this is available in Europe. Here I’m forced to use my credit card. I have no desire for the government to know what I buy and when so all of my transactions are conducted in cash. I’ve had a few strange looks from store sales staff when I purchase a $1500 item and pay for it in cash; I make sure to carry at least $2 K in cash on me in case I do get the sudden urge to buy a new laptop. Also, a lot of tradespeople are quite happy to be paid in cash as it saves them the hassle of sending out bills. The only complaint I have about cash is that $100 bills are now too small a denomination and we need the $1000 bill back as that would take up much less space in my wallet.
As far as the morons who rip out telephone cables to sell as scrap metal, they can be charged as terrorists and sentenced to an indefinite stay at Gitmo; that is if they survive the arrest procedure.
A guy who deals in used goods hasn’t had any stolen goods in 8 years?
I understand the reasons but it’s pretty petty.
@Scar I believe he was staying that his store has not sold something that was a stolen item in 8 years…meaning they have this under control already.
This Yank agrees with Loki. “This note is legal tender for all debts public and private”. The first businessman that gets slammed with this Big Brother municipal ordinance is going to appeal the inevitable municipal criminal court conviction on the grounds of unconstitutionality and also sue the City of LA for major damages. The arrogant City Council will fight it all the way, after all they’re financing the battle with taxpayers’ money, and ultimately lose.
Certain losers, the taxpayers of LA.
Certain winners, the lawyers who take the defense criminal and civil suit case on contingency.
I am getting some engine work done on my Mustang. Tax is going to run about $1000.00 Haven’t seen one politico over there spinning a wrench. Makes me gag, in indignation.
@Dave:
Actually, I thought the same thing when I saw this, so I did a search.
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx
Apparently, this would be a state-level thing. Stupid, but as far as this would indicate, not stepping on federal toes. This does, however, make me think of the whole “only criminals will have guns” thing.
More useless politicians making more useless laws.
Just to be seen to be doing something. They never figure their are consequences unseen. frankly because they never effect them.
Who is John Gault?
In justifying this as an investigative tool for Police to detect/track stolen goods, it’ transparent but unmentioned is the intent to facilitate tax.
The black market is adept and experienced…and without outlawing cash transactions this will not work. Having to account for the cash in your pocket will not be popular….
It is in fact a start down the slippery slope to allow the govenment to further mind everybody’s business.
Anybody else notice that the unproductive bits of our society seem to have an overarching desire to take as much as they can from the productive bits?
Not surprised, yet it’s troublesome to see this development.
Back in 1975, my math text book’s introductory section stated outright that society would be cashless in the future; as early as within 25 years. I recall being disturbed at the time as I was reading everything on biblical prophecy I could get my hands and was astounded to see some of the experts on the topic predictions confirmed.
In justifying this as an investigative tool for Police to detect/track stolen goods, it’ transparent but unmentioned is the intent to facilitate tax.
The black market is adept and experienced…and without outlawing cash transactions this will not work. Having to account for the cash in your pocket will not be popular….
It is in fact a start down the slippery slope to allow the govenment to further mind everybody’s business.
Posted by: sasquatch at October 20, 2011 2:23 AM
Bingo.
The state can dress it up any way they want, but this has everything to do with taxes and nothing at all to do with stolen goods transactions.
Wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Dildo McDinky’s cash-starved government tries something like this. They already have the HST police sticking their noses in estate auctions and yard sales.
But, as the old saying goes, when you build a better mousetrap, the mice get smarter.
Sasquatch nails it. The IRS will soon be coming to your door for their cut of your garage sale profits.
It’s like paying HST on a second hand car; government gets their money every time that car is sold no matter how many times that car changes hands. And forget about the $1 car you sold to your kid, in Nova Scotia you have to pay their estimate of what it’s worth if the bill of sale looks like you got a good deal.
The law is unenforceable, and will be ignored. About as effective as legislating water to flow uphill. Cash transactions will simply morph into an exchange of gifts.
All those stories about wheelbarrows full of money to buy a loaf of bread never made it to Louisiana’s eggheads.
People will just switch to gold, Pesos or Loonies, and the US dollar will fall like Zimbobway’s in the second hand market. Just like the econ 101 examples of cigarettes used as money in prisons. The underground economy will go deeper.
Perfect example of legislative over-reach, and it demonstrates the genius of the American system. This law is -obviously- unConstitutional and can’t possible survive a legal challenge.
In Canada of course, it would be another story. Just another thing that sucks about Canada.
From Mark Steyn’s After America: “In the years ahead, for many poor Overdocumented-Americans, living in the Shadowlands will offer if not the porspect of escape then at least temporary relief. As America loses its technological edge and the present Chinese cyber-probing gets disseminated to the Wikileaks types, the blips on the computer screen representing your checking and savings accounts will become more vulnerable. After yet another brutal attack, your local branch never reconnects to head office; it brings up from the vault the old First National Bank of Deadsville shingle and starts issuing fewer cards and more checkbooks. And then fewer checbooks and more cash. In small bills
The planet is dividing into two extremes: an advanced world – Europe, North America, Australia – in which privacy is vanishing and the state will soon be able to monitor you every second of the day; and a reprimitivized world – Somalia, the Pakistani tribal lands – where noone has a clue what’s going on….. As Documented America fails, poor whites, poor blacks, and many others will find it easier to assimilate with Undocumented America, and retreat into the shadows. It will not merely be states and sub-state jurisdictions that secede, but individuals, too.”
The banning of cash transactions in commerce is the start of economic tyranny. Taken to its natural extention a cashless society will be helt totally hostage to those who run the system – not only will you pay a tax to engage in commerce but if you transgress any regulation or la you can be impoverished with a key stroke. IAmericans allow this they are doomed!
You would think this violates federal statutes regarding the right to pay debts using legal tender.
And who exactly is it stealing metal and other goods to sell for cash at pawnshops?
Not drug addicted welfare entitlement recipients or illegal immigrants crossing open boarders perhaps.
As always the Liberal loons create a problem then control the law abiding citizens in an effort to deflect the blame from themselves. Meanwhile western societies slowly spiral into the Third World.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness…..”
The revolutionary spirit that produced that declaration appears non-existent today. King George the Third was a libertarian compared to the evolved level of state intervention described above. A century of progressivism has created an entitlement mentality approaching majority status advancing through corrupting democracy. The election of 2012 will likely be the last chance at democratic resolution. If not, see Steyn’s latest book.
Rocketgirl gets it right!
The only way this law can be enforced is by banning cash. I assume the government was State trying to squeeze more money through taxation, but they will simply drive more cash business to, well, cash businesses who will not file any tax forms.
… or is it a ploy by credit card salesmen? Very sleezy
Buyer: Will you take $20.00 for that old coffee table?
Seller: Yes, I will. But as I don’t have a personal credit card or debit machine for this
garage sale, by law, you’ll have to pay by cheque.
Buyer: Fine, I’ll just sign the back of this $20.00 dollar bill.
============
Once the government has made the use of cash illegal, then it’s easy for them to have the power to “approve” of everything you buy or not.
That’s more power than even George Orwell was able to imagine in 1984.
“Who is John Gault?”
Somebody who knows how to spell his own last name (hint: there’s no ‘u’) 😉
I live in Louisi-Yana. They will never be able to enforce this. Just in my lil college town there aren’t enuf cops to cover the 3 – 4 dozen yard sales every saturday. Besides, they are not about to give up their speed trap cash for a poke in the barrel. The congresscritter who footed this bill lives in the big city and has no clue how the back country works. Come this weekend we are gona vote some of these cats out.
The last sentence of the article ….
“Pawn shops have been forced to keep records of their clients for years. However under this bill they are still allowed to deal in cash.”
Doug MacDiarmid
So what is it? Allowed to use cash or not?
I guess that states can pass commerce laws … but I’d like to see a federal response to this.
Of course … given the current federal government ……………
Black Mamba,
You beat me to it. I’m just reading Mark Steyn’s book, and it has some pretty chilling prophecies. But I think he is right, when he talks about how the state is more and more involved in all aspects of our lives, and it will not end well. The bureaucrats have to justify their own existence.
Different subject, sort of, but reminds me of my brother and sister-in-law, who are all in favour of tax increases (endless it seems). I could never quite figure out why they were so stupid, until I read Steyn’s book. He says if you talk to a government worker (the new elite) of course they are in favour of higher taxes….have to keep those wage increases coming! And yes, the in-laws both work for the government.
So, Louisiana’s new law is just another layer of bureaucracy, another rule used to control the productive people of society. Scary stuff. I highly recommend Steyn’s book, by the way.
Who is John Gault?”
Somebody who knows how to spell his own last name (hint: there’s no ‘u’) 😉
Edward Teach at October 20, 2011 1:57 PM
That’s the colourful Canadian spelling, Eddy
A cashless society is necessary to implement a tax on wealth. All income and expedintures will be by electronic transaction and visible to the government. At the end of the year any wealth accumulated and saved will be taxed. All wealth will be registered, including all hard goods bought, and ready for confiscation. There will be no hiding of wealth. This is my guess to where we are heading.
Canadians are well on the way by happily using debit cards for every tiny transaction such as buying a coffee at Tim Hortons.
navy island notes:
Canadians are well on the way by happily using debit cards for every tiny transaction such as buying a coffee at Tim Hortons.
If there is one thing that pisses me off the most in my daily life it is the morons who insist on using a debit card to buy small items. I deal with cash only and have had a frustrating time with my bank trying to get the debit card portion of my bank card disabled. Something I have never used and have no plans on using.
The best way I can see to piss off a statist now is to use cash for all purchases. Yes, it does mean going to the bank machine periodically to top up, or you can just save a lot of bank trips with a withdrawal of $9999.99 less often. It’s amazing the discounts one can get in some places when one mentions that a receipt for the transaction isn’t needed.
I live in Louisi-Yana. They will never be able to enforce this. Just in my lil college town there aren’t enuf cops to cover the 3 – 4 dozen yard sales every saturday. Besides, they are not about to give up their speed trap cash for a poke in the barrel. The congresscritter who footed this bill lives in the big city and has no clue how the back country works. Come this weekend we are gona vote some of these cats out.
Also, I highly doubt the law would survive the first attempted prosecution/fining of a storeowner who broke it. The benefits aren’t likely worth the bad publicity and the threat to many LA politicians’ political careers.