I don’t plan on blogging the Egyptian riots at present (due mostly to a lack of free time to cover it properly) but you can pick up the Al Jazeera English live stream here. Plus, lots of headlines at Drudge.
“Here’s what a “Presidential Internet Switch” looks like in the wild, my friends.”
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violent, homicidal riots in middle east… must be friday.
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Based on the ease with which the Internet can be shutdown, we better keep those ham radio “geeks” and CBs around a little longer.
Great headline @ Al Jezerra
“NDP headquarters has been set on fire in downtown Cairo”
Thanks for the link Kate. You Americans out there need to GET ON THE PHONE over this “internet kill switch” thing, or y’all are going to be really screwed ’round about November 2012.
Note that Al Jazeera is most likely getting out by a satellite uplink, and the USA controls the on/off switch on those telecom sats. If Barry shuts off the Internet and the phones, there will be no coverage getting out via satellite.
Any SDA propeller heads know anything about digital shortwave?
PET Cemetery Survey asks:
Who threw western civilization “under the bus”?
That’s the Mohammedan bus, Iggy.
The Canadian left-liberal “icon”, Liberal PM Lester Pearson, threw western civilization under AlMoh’s “bus”.
..-
“savethemales.ca – Lester Pearson, Illuminati Tool **
Herbert Norman, the Canadian ambassador to Egypt, was an NKVD agentand Pearson Lester Pearson may have been recruited while a studentat Oxford University in 1923.”
http://www.savethemales.ca/001329.html
This is why Obama is trying so desperately to gain control over the internet here in the States through shut-down powers. He wants to be able to control the masses through the lockdown of information and freedom that we now possess. When we can’t communicate, we can’t organize and the power brokers know that is there only hope of not allow the locals to gain the advantage when thing start going south.
should read: know “that this is” there only hope
no coffee yet…sigh…
O’narcissist’s spin now? “Shift”.
Hildabeast’s She-Hope and She-Change:
“she urged the non-democratic leaders of North Africa and the Middle East to embrace calls for democratic change.”
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“Shift From White House on Egypt”
>>> “With events rapidly in Egypt, the Obama administration sharply shifted its tone Friday, expressing “deep concern” over “unfolding” actions and urging “open communications” after Egyptian President Hasni Mubarak shut down Internet and cell services in the world’s largest Arab country.
State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley took to the social networking site Twitter to say, “Events unfolding in Egypt are of deep concern. Fundamental rights must be respected, violence avoided and open communications allowed.”
That message was a change from Thursday’s calls for restraint, which were accompanied by mild expressions of support for Mr. Mubarak. On PBS Thursday night, Vice President Joe Biden said, “Mubarak has been an ally of ours in a number of things. And he’s been very responsible on, relative to geopolitical interest in the region, the Middle East peace efforts; the actions Egypt has taken relative to normalizing relationship with – with Israel. … I would not refer to him as a dictator.”
Mr. Crowley’s comments on Twitter echo what now appears to be a pivotal speech made by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton earlier this month in Qatar, in which she urged the non-democratic leaders of North Africa and the Middle East to embrace calls for democratic change.”
http://blogs.wsj.com/dispatch/2011/01/28/new-concern-from-white-house-on-egypt/?mod=e2tw
Well, the pyramids have been around for centuries so I guess I can wait to see them and cross the Nile off my bucket list.
I have friends in Egypt who would love nothing more than for this to be their “Berlin Wall” moment. The key things to watch for are:
1. Will Mubarek bow to the will of the people or will he use violence to stay in power?
2. Should the gov’t fall, will democracy emerge on the other side or will be a theocracy more akin to the thugocracy in Iran?
Tense times in Egypt to be sure.
1. Will Mubarek bow to the will of the people or will he use violence to stay in power?
2. Should the gov’t fall, will democracy emerge on the other side or will be a theocracy more akin to the thugocracy in Iran?
1- Mubarak has been a dictator for 30 years, he is old and sick.
He will either crush this Iranian backed coup or flee as an exhile.
(this coup is not “of the people” it is a violent revolt led by religious fanatics similar to what happened in Iran in the ’70s)
2- The violent fanatics who are driving this revolt are only using the call for democracy to confuse the Western media and Western governments.
They have no intention of instituting democracy even if they had any idea what it is in the first place.
Democracy is incompatible with Islam.
Islam means submission, the word Muslim means “One who Submits”.
Iran is behind this coup/revolt.
It is no coincidence that Lebanon, Tunisia, and now Eygpt have fallen to violent revolt all within the last 2 weeks.
“will democracy emerge on the other side or will be a theocracy more akin to the thugocracy in Iran?”
I wouldn’t put even money on it. Any time I see a screeching middle eastern person throwing molotov cocktails, democracy isn’t the first word that comes to mind.
Thanks Oz. My first questions were ‘what is behind this?, and why are in a rage?’. You are the first to put some perspective on it.
The rage is, apparently, not against USA or Israel this time.
In 1956 the “Suez Canal Closure Concerns Go Viral”.
Canadian “liberal icon” Liberal Pearson*, et al, saved the Egyptian Mohammedans’ bacon.
USA President Eisenhower* was duped by the leftists. Later, Eisenhower regretted his naivete:
“*Re: Suez Canal
President Eisenhowner came to regret his actions against the Brithish and French during the 1956 Suez Canal crisis (the more things change, the more they stay the same – or, same stuff, different day). The Israelis did not get benefit of doubt from Mr. Eisenhower – we are talking Arab oil here).”
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“Suez Canal Closure Concerns Go Viral”
Shockingly, the “pundits” have suddenly realized that courtesy of the upheaval in Suez, the canal with the same name may be closed, which would wreak havoc on shipping costs. Once again, Zero Hedge was just ahead of the curve: “Egyptian Stock Market Plunges Over 11% To Fresh Multi-Year Lows; Is A Suez Canal Transit Halt Imminent?” The just announced countrywide curfew will not make Suez Canal operability any easier. For those who are concerned about what a Suez closure means, we recreate what we wrote previously on the topic. And just in from Reuters, Energy Secretary Steven Chu has declined to say if he is worried Egypt protests may disrupt Mid-East oil, but believes that serious disruptions will have oil prices. By harm he means make them surge higher.
From Egyptian Stock Market Plunges Over 11% To Fresh Multi-Year Lows; Is A Suez Canal Transit Halt Imminent?
And while the important part of the world may ignore what is happening in Egypt, after all it is not US banker money thay is being lost, they may want to consider this: according to reports, there has been live fire in Suez, where the police headquarters have been taken over. More importantly, according to the Guardian, we may see the first army insubordination in this city: “a lawyer and executive director for the Arabic Network for Human Rights Information, has tweeted that some army units in Suez are refusing to support the crackdown against the people.” Which means the government may be about to lose control over Suez… And the Suez Canal.
(Excerpt) Read more at zerohedge.com …”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2664952/posts
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*Pearson: 38. “allen”:
http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2011/01/27/between-the-lines/#more-12350
This is the critical threshold phase for the ME, when its increasing urbanization, massive increases in population and yet – its retention of the ancient political/economic infrastructure of tribalism – are in conflict.
The tribal political structure, like all collectivist structures, is two-class. An elite Rulers..and the Ruled. This only works in a medium size population, non-or low industrial economy. It will become dysfunctional in a multimillion size urban, industrial population.
These attributes – require a three class infrastructure. That is – a middle class must be the most populated and the one in charge of govt and the economy. This is what is going on in the ME now. The old two-class tribalism, kept in place by oil – is and must end.
BUT – will the three class system that is democracy emerge? Or will we have, instead of the old corrupt two-class tribalism, an emergence of a rigid totalitarian theocracy- Islamism, akin to that of the Taliban era in Afghanistan.
I think it will be a Taliban era at first. The reason is – that the idealistic notion of ‘purity’, of utopia, of IF we only do such and such, THEN…all will be perfect’ is extremely attractive to a powerless people.
They think that if they pray, submit to a god, follow rigid routines – and these are actions in which they can take full part.. (after all in the current society their actions are irrelevant)..well, these prayers and submissions and acts will make them seem powerful and engaged in the society. Don’t underestimate this feeling of belonging and ‘taking part’ for a people who have been RULED and not allowed to take any part in the society.
The fact that such a rigid communal idealism can’t function as an industrial economy and can only satisfy a monastery-life supported by an external robust economy – they don’t know this.
But democracy is messy; it’s filled with risk and requirements for decision-making, while the utopian theocracy rejects risk, rejects decision-making and promises security.
So- I think that the ME is going to go through a first terrible phase of violence and self-repression. It happened in the West in the 15th c, in the Soviet Union, in China. But we in the West must only call for democracy – and reject their corrupt leaders fleeing (eg, the Tunisian to Montreal) – and also, reject, reject, reject, our own multiculturalism which actually permits undemocratic enclaves within our midst.
It happened in the West in the 15th c, in the Soviet Union, in China.
No it(democracy) didn’t happen in the Soviet Union or China.
Russia isn’t a democracy today and neither is China.
Putin has been in power in Russia ever since Boris Yeltsin appointed him 1997 and became Acting President of the Russian Federation with Yeltsin’s unexpected resignation in 1999.
It is now 2011 and Putin has held the position of either President or Premier ever since getting power in 1999.
(Medvedev is nothing more than a figurehead/placeholder who holds the Presidency until Putin can assume it again)
Meanwhile Putin travels the world and acts not one iota differently as Premier than he did when his title was President of the Russian Federation.
China is a Communist one party state.
A prerequisite for democracy is the rule of just law.
This is something the Muslims of the Middle East do not have and know nothing about.
The just laws of our Western democracy are based on common law.
Muslims do not have common law.
Their understanding of law comes from the Koran and that is Sharia law.
Oz, I think you’re being much too binary (or black & white, if you prefer) with your analysis. Perhaps some elements of the upheaval in Egypt are backed by Iran. But it’s obvious that more than a few liberty-loving Egyptians are fed up with their corrupt gov’t and want to become more like a Western democracy.
May I also add, that in other threads, some [sincerely caring] people are wondering why America & other nations are not intervening in Egypt to help the citizens there. I don’t want to get too political here but we all know what happens to Western politicians when they’ve tried to intervene in times past. No matter how good & noble a cause might seem at first, before too long those same people who cried out for the politicians to help are then the same ones condemning them.
Don’t Help, you lose in the short term. Help, and you lose in the long term. 🙁
Probably a good time to by oil shares (Canada), gold, silver and Potassium Iodide pills.
These are all concepts that make sense to you, ET. Unfortunately, there are billions of people who don’t have the same clarity of thought.
Sometimes I wonder if enlightenment is genetic. We have second and third generation Canadians of ME descent, who are radicalizing, and joining the jihad.
I agree, Robet W., that there must be some liberty-loving Egyptians.
In fact the real Egyptians, the ones descended from the pyramid builders(the Copts), are undoubtably liberty-loving or they would have sold out and been absorbed by the Arab Muslim invaders.
Why do you think that these are the people who are taking part in this violent revolt and calling for democracy?
Does it strike you as likely that the people who touched this violent revolt off, the ones who publicly immolated themselves with gasoline, are liberty-loving Egyptians or religious fanatics?
Who cares about Egypt?
Let them fight it out, that’s what they do best. Nothing new to see here folks, no reason to get involved, if you show interest they will come, and you will have the same issues in your own streets before long.
oz – moving from a two-class tribal to a three class democracy doesn’t happen overnight. It took the west over four hundred years to do that. OK?
So, the Soviet Union and China will move to democracy. Democracy isn’t a choice; it’s a requirement in an industrial economy with a large population. You must empower the ‘energy-source’ or productive facet of your population.
In an agricultural economy, the ‘energy source’ is the landowners. That sets up a two-class structure. In an industrial economy, the ‘energy source’ are the people who make factories, industries, develop marketable products. You must politically, legally and economically, empower them. They are the middle class.
The only way to empower this class is via democracy. So – it WILL happen. It takes time. I used to tell my students it takes at least three generations to change an ideological structure.
Considering that El Baradei is the opposition, I think not taking a side and praying for the asteroid is the appropriate position.
Have you all seen this video? Who knows what one’s to make of it. One thing’s for sure though, riotous mobs don’t tend to possess a great amount of collective wisdom.
I suspect that in the background the CIA and Iran’s equivalent are fighting things are, trying to position their chess pieces best for what happens next.
History is occurring in front of our eyes, folks.
There is absolutely no guarantee that democracy will take root in China. They actually believe, with good reason, that democracy is in a state of decline. Considering the rapid growth of Islam, it would be fool hardy to believe its followers will ever have the desire, or the opportunity to experiment with democracy. Isn’t going to happen, ever. Hope I’m wrong.
Apparently the White House has issued a release ‘urging restraint’ in Egypt. What a stupid comment.
We must leave them sort it out. As I said, I think that the population base has reached a critical threshold – and denying this population the right to participate in the governance of the nation – can’t be sustained any longer. The old tribal two-class system has worn itself out.
BUT – what will happen now – might be a vicious and violent interim phase. They might move into a repressive utopian phase, similar to the Taliban phase in Afghanistan, similar to the Mao and Lenin phases in China/Russia, …where they consider that IF they insert a purist regime, a top-down authoritarian and universal regime where everyone behaves the same…THEN, this purity will answer their needs.
It’s sad, it’s grievous, but purity doesn’t and can’t exist in this material world – and attempting such can only be done by repressive violence. So – this might be the next phase in the ME – a violent repressive phase.
We MUST NOT help them out; that is, we must not provide financial assistance for that will only enable this repressive regime, as it enabled the old tribal regimes…to continue in power. We must allow them to fail..for a utopian regime cannot provide for the needs of a large population.
Utopian regimes only operate in small scale cult groups of about 30 people. That’s it.
We must allow them to move past this phase…if they go into it, and I suspect that they will. But, many lives will be lost as the regime attempts to make itself into what it cannot be.
The power vacuums these countries will soon find themselves in will give way to even worse extremists.
Not good…
This is going to get messy for the US. It’s WELL known that Egypt is a dictatorship, a brutal one, and it’s been backed by the US for decades. They’re still backing it despite the rising up of the population.
Wonder how this is going to effect Israel-ME relations, as well as the Palestinian issue.
Robert W. – It’s very hard to find any significant signs of CIA competency in the last 40 years. In fact, it is probably more likely that they’ll make things worse, than better. Witness their useless intelligence ( Schwarzkopf’s assessment ) produced leading up to Desert Storm, their decades of mis-assessment of Soviet developments, etc.
In fact, there’s a good chance that folk sympathetic to the Islamists are in charge of that part of the globe, at the CIA. As for Barry, he definitely would be not be alarmed if Islamists took over Egypt. In his progressive world view, all the malevolent political movements are simply reactions to a greater malevolence, the US, and are therefore not necessarily inherently bad.
Robert @ 2:52 “Perhaps some elements of the upheaval in Egypt are backed by Iran.” The analogies of China and Russia were used in some of the posts above.
In the case of Russia, the February 1917 revolt was a spontaneous by the people who were hungry. They were joined by disaffected troops. The Bolsheviks, who had been agitating the troops and population for months, were caught by surprise, but quickly recovered and began to take control of the revolt.
After a few false starts the Bolsheviks managed to pull it off in October.
Iran probably has been working for some time to create the events in Tunisia, Yeman and Egypt and it will be working hard to make sure that it controls the results of all these revolts.
Timing
the Zero has been in office 2 years and come up short on every “crisis” he has faced. He takes a through drubbing at the pols in november and is now in “election” mode. I think it a little more than a popular uprising, a new mideast war is dawning!!
Headline: America’s secret backing for rebel leaders behind Egyptian uprising
Wikileaks revelation comes as troops and rioters clash on streets of Cairo
What could possibly go wrong? (if true)
Robert W. (Vancouver) at January 28, 2011 4:16 PM
I didn’t see anything in the video you referenced that suggested liberty-loving Egyptians were any part of the rioting.
One commenter said the Mubarak regime was corrupt and the rest were yelling Allahu Akbar.
Please indicate to me why it is that you think that any kind of democracy movement with liberty as it’s goal is afoot in Cairo.
Folks, I don’t disagree with much of what you’ve been saying but surely you support the pursuits of those citizens who are fed up with their corrupt leaders? The fact that this upheaval happens to be in Egypt makes no difference to me.
Put another way, juxtapose the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 with what’s going on in 2011 in Egypt. What’s the difference in Egypt at this moment?!
Now … if things devolve and the heavy hand of Iran rises to oppress Egyptians like it already has Iranians, then of course I’d be against that.
P.S. This isn’t very good optics.
Oz @ 5:49pm – Turning around your inference, do you believe that the vast majority of the people we see rioting are hoping for an Islamist state in which freedoms are clamped down much like they are in Iran?
If so, I trust you know that this is a pretty large chasm of no-real-facts with which to draw such a conclusion?
Caroline Glick’s take.
Interesting Question that Hugh Hewitt has posed:
“It’s 3am in the White House, you’re the President of the United States, and Hosni Mubarak is calling. What do you say to him?”
Put another way, juxtapose the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 with what’s going on in 2011 in Egypt. What’s the difference in Egypt at this moment?!
Differences:
a) The Berlin wall separated 2 halves of one German nation from each other, both halves wanted the wall down, one half was already a functioning democracy and it’s government was adopted by both halves.
-When have Egyptians had prior experience with democracy?
Never.
b) The 2 Germanys already had a prior history in common and a culture which included the rule of law to which the rulers were themselves subject.
-Egypts rule of law, prior to Sharia, is lost in the mists of time. All the people of Egypt today only know the rule of dictatorship by fiat.
c) The Germans have European tradition to draw from with it’s parliaments and it’s Christian culture.
-Egyptians have the Koranic traditions to draw from with it’s tyrrant Caliphate and Arab despots.
Just off the top of my head I see few similarites or how the fall of the Berlin wall is similar to what we are seeing today in Egypt.
I see more similarities between Eygpt and the Iranian Revolution.
I think we know who has come out on top in Lebanon and Tunisia, both are now going to be client states of Iran and the fact that something similar is going on in Egypt in such a short time span points to dominos being set up to fall a set way for a certain reason.
To call what we are seeing a “chain of planned events” isn’t too far of a stretch.
Robert W. please read this article from April 2010
http://frontpagemag.com/2010/04/20/appeasing-the-muslim-brotherhood/
AlMoh & O’narcissist.
Reality bites AlMoh’O.
Mohammedans killing Mohammedans.
AlMohism is a cannibal.
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“The Internet curtain may prove more effective at sparing the Obama administration the gruesome sight of watching their policy fail than in protecting Mubarak. Rarely, if ever, has such an epic policy failure occurred since Neville Chamberlain returned from Munich proclaiming “peace in our time”. At least the President’s backers won’t have to see their calculations proved utterly, completely and comprehensively wrong.”
“The entire catastrophe has unfolded in the brief time since the President’s State of the Union Speech, which was obsolescent even as the words left his mouth. Reality is inside the administration’s OODA loop and neither the MSM nor even their “activists” can slow down the clock.”
“Text Like an Egyptian”
http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2011/01/28/text-like-an-egyptian/#comments
Oz:
1) I fully recognize that what we’re seeing *may* be an orchestrated to spread the totalitarianism in Iran to Egypt. In point of fact, is it? Neither you nor I *know* the answer to this question.
2) You have implied that Muslim people are only capable of living in two different systems:
a) A dictatorship.
b) An Islamist theocracy.
Sorry, but I can never accept those as the only two choices for ANYONE.
I am reminded of an ongoing conversation I have with a hardcore Democrat friend of mine in Chicago. I asked her whether she didn’t think it possible that the endless stream of welfare given to poor Black citizens in her city lead to their dependency on the same. She essentially responded that most Black Americans were incapable of ever fending for themselves so all other Americans would forever have to support them on welfare. I fundamentally reject this notion too.
The two issues ARE related in that I refuse to believe that a certain variety of human beings are incapable of self-sufficiency, be it to live under a democracy or to live under a roof paid for by their own hard work.
So I guess you didn’t read the link I provided then, Robert W.
Fine.
Oz, I absolutely DID read it!
I also recognize that I’m in the minority amongst many, thinking that ALL groups of humans are capable of both living in a democracy and achieving self-sufficiency. You clearly don’t and many of my closest personal friends don’t. C’est la vie.
Once again, I am not definitively saying that you are wrong on your analysis of what’s going on in Egypt being completely orchestrated from Tehran. But I am saying that none of us have enough data to definitively know for sure. Even more so, I don’t believe that all of those out on the streets are fighting against the police & troops in the hopes of creating an Egyptian theocracy. They may very well be “useful idiots” but that’s different.
Anyhow, my heart goes out to those Egyptians who simply want a better life and future for themselves and their families.
“Once again, I am not definitively saying that you are wrong on your analysis of what’s going on in Egypt being completely orchestrated from Tehran.”
If you won’t, I will….Oz is ignorant of the facts. He’s spewing propaganda along the same lines as we’ve all been fed for decades. Surely Oz has no idea what living under a dictatorship is like, and he wastes no time in expressing that ignorance.
Anyhow, my heart goes out to those Egyptians who simply want a better life and future for themselves and their families.
As does mine, especially the Copts who are a terribly mistreated minority.
Wretchard at the Belmont Club refers the the Muslim Brotherhood as being the best organized opposition to the Mubarak regime and having a hardened operational underground network.
He says that unorganized opposition to the government will naturally gravitate to and be largely absorbed by the MB.
(the Muslim Brotherhood is the Islamic organization where al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden’s right hand man, an Egyptian, and said to be the brains behind al Qaeda comes from. al-Zawahiri, who joined the MB at the age of 14 was exhiled from Egypt for his part in the assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat)
Ah look, Robert W., you’ve got a little cheerleader troll.
Isn’t that cute?
Oh Oz, confused as ever my friend. You, and those who share your opinions, commit the same mistake over and again. You COMPLETELY ignore US influence in the ME…you can’t discuss any of this without acknowledging the fact that the US has controlled geopolitics in the entire region since the end of WWII.
Bluetech.. Anytime you see a person with a beard, mouth wide open, two hands in the air wearing a cheap bathrobe, its a muzzy… And means harm to Israel.. Egypt=Muzzy Brotherhood/Lebanon=Hezbollah/Syria=Hezbollah/Gaza=Hamas/Iran=Iran=Hezbolla… Kinda got Israel surrounded. Hope they have some mini-nukes, because I think they are going to need them very very soon. JMHO.
you can’t discuss any of this without acknowledging the fact that the US has controlled geopolitics in the entire region since the end of WWII.
Yeah I can, and if you define me as your friend then you don’t have any.
Oz, I hope you read enough of what I’ve written in the past to not directly associate me with Hate-America-First types like ‘BTJ’.
Your analysis & predictions, Oz, may very well be spot on. I just hope, for the Egyptian people, that you’re not correct. Nothing personal.
You know, I just finished watching “Charlie Wilson’s War” for about the 5th time. A big lesson we can all learn from the tail end of that film is that “a vacuum is always filled”. Back in 1988, after the Soviets left Afghanistan, most Americans thought that no more needed to be done. After all, they had just financed the defeat of those oppressing the Afghans. But then look what happened. The Taliban “filled the vacuum” and the Afghan people were oppressed once again. No need to remind everyone what happened 13 years later.
I fear that the Americans are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. Ditto with the Israelis. This is doubly the case amongst Leftards the world over.
I wish only the best for the liberty loving, democracy craving Egyptians but I fear something not at all positive is about to happen to them, in much part due to the despots in Tehran. You know, that group of devilish thugs that the likes of ‘BTJ’ will never criticize. 🙁