If those miners had been trapped a half-mile down like this 25 years ago anywhere on earth, they would be dead. What happened over the past 25 years that meant the difference between life and death for those men?
If those miners had been trapped a half-mile down like this 25 years ago anywhere on earth, they would be dead. What happened over the past 25 years that meant the difference between life and death for those men?
But, but .. MSNBC’s Chris Mathews says if left to the Tea Partiers, they would all be dead.
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/10/13/matthews-to-afl-cio-chief-if-those-chilean-miners-were-tea-partiers-theyd-be-dead/
If these poor fellows had the misfortune of being miners in Russia or China, they would have been left there.
Yes, it is pertinent to point out how free-market devices, know-how and ability saved those men.
Groovy
The Left openly mock the Invisible Hand analogizing it to faith. Lets hope that North American capitalism doesn’t die on our watch. What people need to see is tangible results from small “c” conservative fiscal policies. It worked in Alberta for King Ralph.
OT
How’s Ralph holding-up these days? Anyone? Could he be our Justin Trudeau or Sarah Palin?
But Chrissy Matthews says they’d surely have killed each other within a couple of days, had they been “tea partiers” – thus validating the opinion of many of us that Chrissy is a freaking moron.
but…but….but…that’s not Jacko Layton says.
That’s a really excellent article. And it shows the facts: that capitalism is the ONLY economic system that enables innovation. Notice that there is not one socialist nation that supplied anything.
The definition of capitalism is its economic empowerment of the private property – both intellectually and in the results of labour, of the individual. Capitalism encourages innovation because it empowers the rights of the individual to the results of his freedom-to-think and work.
Socialism discourages and inhibits innovation because individualism is repressed in this mode.
Capitalism thus operates in a free market economy where the results of thought/work move into the market – where others evaluate their value. Failures have a small impact; successes have a large impact.
For capitalism to function, you must free the people politically as well; that’s why democracy is the other hand of capitalism; the two go together.
Again – a really great article.
A socialist state would probably just write them off and walk away. Why waste a large amount of state resources on a few people. If the miners were good socialists they’d want it that way.
Let’s not forget the other of the left’s favourite demons that made this all possible…GLOBALIZATION!
Let’s see here:
High-strength cable: Germany
Fiber-optic communications cable – Japan
Precision Drilling Corp. – Canada
Center Rock – USA
NASA – USA
Cupron Inc. (copper anti-bacterial socks) – USA
Cellphone with projector – South Korea
But, but, globalization is the devil.
“According to one source, in 2003 China accounted for the largest number of coal-mining fatalities, accounting for about 80% of the world’s total, although it produced only 35% of the world’s coal.[6] Between January 2001 to October 2004, there were 188 accidents that had a death toll of more than 10, about one such accident every 7.4 days”
“In 2006, according to the State Work Safety Supervision Administration, 4,749 Chinese coal miners were killed in thousands of blasts, floods, and other accidents”. From Wikipedia.
Hm,excellent article,and it IS a triumph of capitalism.
My only question concerning Obama is; is the man that ignorant of how the capitalist system works,or is he a goddamned communist SOB that hates capitalism so much he can’t do anything but blame it for everything.
So I wonder what Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, and Mexico were able to contribute to the rescue.
You’d think someone who professed such
admiration for free market capitalism
would be in favour of extricating all of those
rural conservative welfare bums from the
socialistic public trough. You’d be wrong.
Ah well, scratch a right whinger……
JGH22
You over looked Oakley…
Oakley sunglasses – USA
NO CRIME–NO FOUL…
The hole is still open—send Chris Mathews down–with or without the capsule—
This reminds me of Opollo 13 when even the Soviets provided the positions and resources of ALL their naval assets as “ships of opportunity”.
When I say ALL…..including ordering submerged submarines to surface….
Just an observation…that capsule certainly looked well used by the time the rescue was over.
that’s all well and good until the capitalist down the street ravages the infrastructure of a nation leaving it a quivering mass of protoplasm.
remember back when they tried to privatize RAIN WATER in Bolivia?
http://jamesptaylor.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/bolivia-bechtel-and-the-fight-for-public-water/
phil
Don’t your arms get tired from endlessly beating that same drum?
dmorris
Both, but mostly the latter.
So I wonder what Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, and Mexico were able to contribute to the rescue.
Posted by: grok at October 14, 2010 4:22 PM
Russia=vodka
Cuba=cigars
Venezuela=beautiful dancing girls
Mexico=tequila and Kahlua
All party favors for the celebration party!!! These countries do know how to party…don’t they?
Here’s a vid of Brandon Fisher, President of Center Drilling returning from Chile.
Center Rock Drill-Bit Makers Return From Chile Mine Rescue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5GHD74flT8
What can one say about the good folks from Pennsylvania? Simply put.
Well done!
As to Chris Matthews, I would venture a likely little supported view. Herewith: The man has the mentality of an adolescent and an early one at that. Like a nasty minded small boy, playing jokes on a bunch of people who rise to his tricks. He is now deliberately goading people. He is sitting back having a high screeching laugh. He is thinking of his next “in yer face” comment to outrage people.
Only my humble opinion though.
The news media called this a global effort. Where were the Islamic countries in this effort?
It was never a global effort.
You’d think someone who professed such
admiration for free market capitalism
would be in favour of extricating all of those
rural conservative welfare bums from the
socialistic public trough. You’d be wrong.
Ah well, scratch a right whinger……
Say, all you anticapitalists in this thread: please be good enough to tell us
1) how you support yoursleves,
2) your annual incomes
2) your annual contribution, in dollars and outside of income taxes, to the welfare of others
4) the exact date of your planned emigration to China, North Korea, or Venezuela – now boasting the world’s 4th-highest murder rate!
Thanks! Be back later to check your responses, which I just KNOW will convince everyone here of the sincerity of your professed value system.
Uh, phil, you already posted that. Little flashback problem? Early-onset dementia?
Chile is no more a Second World Country. What they accomplished was Better than 99% of the Nations on Earth. Praise as well for how they pulled themselves up after a devastating Quake. Not long ago.
I’m really impressed with this Nation & its solidarity. These men where not afraid to give God credit either. NO denying Ministers the use of the name Jesus. As happend in Canada by PM order. Humility, something never seen in Canadian politicians.
JMO
Well, I had time to go out and buy groceries and put them away and get a glass of wine and put on “Deep Ska II” and fire up the puter before checking back in, and – no surpises. That request for career/income/charity work/plans to leave for a Commie country shuts ’em up every single time.
remember back when they tried to privatize RAIN WATER in Bolivia?
Oh no! People had to get a permit! Just like in, uh, Colorado.
The news media called this a global effort. Where were the Islamic countries in this effort?
Posted by: Antioch at October 14, 2010 6:11 PM
Maybe we can dispatch the NASA chief to make them feel better about their (non-existent) contribution.
And actually, of course, the shrieking lefty nutbars wailing about the privatization of Cochabamba’s water system were getting their knickers in a knot over possible interpretations of the Bolivian law which was passed, not any actual transgression.
Meanwhile, after the eeeeevil corporations were kicked out and their contract illegally terminated, today half the citizens of the city still don’t get any water, and the others get it only intermittently. Quite the victory there.
@Waterhouse – and the water they do get, sans capitalism, is probably contaminated with disease organisms – “nature’s own goodness” as I call it.
Not that I actually give a rat-fart what website some coffee-house “activist” troll directs me to…reminds me, time to pay the water bill. Maybe phil lives in the bush and powers his puter with methane from his own bull$hit.
dmorris, agreed.
I hope Johnny Barrios can capitalize on an upgrade to a 7 or better.
The lesson is not that capitalism saved the miners. It is that capitalism will save us ALL. If we let it.
First of all, the Chileans will thank Canada first. Two Canadian companies based in Calgary supported the drilling effort.
Precision Drilling and ATCO.
Precision volunteered to move one of their drilling rigs to the site and become the third rig to drill (Canada is probably the world experts in real mining and drilling and are probably the leaders in mining in Chile). There were 3 rigs involved so as to make sure one rig made it. The Canadian rig, run by Canadians, was within 100 meters of the safe zone that the miners were in. The 2 other rigs had started earlier and one of them made it first. There was no competition at all – they all just wanted to make sure the miners got out alive. ATCO provided all the mobile housing and facilities for the President, the rescue workers, the families of the miners, and hospital resources.
Now, the owners of this mine are already facing charges – and cannot leave Chile – because of another accident earlier this year in which a miner lost a leg. The President of Chile has already ordered a review and overhaul of worker safety regulations because a lot of Chileans die in worker mishaps, particularly in mines.
Chile is becoming a first world country. It was demonstrated during the resent and massive earthquake there – no building collapsed – they have modern building codes. (Would you want to be in China during a massive earth quake? I don’t think so.)
I am a capitalist. The problem though is that all capitalists are not ethical. We wouldn’t need laws and regulations if they were.
I’m very happy for the miners and Chile. The Chilean gov’t showed the right stuff and the right thing was done. I’m also proud of Precision Drilling and ATCO for helping in volunteering their time, effort, and money.
The point has been made of the difference in response between bambam and the Golf incident and the Chilean President Pinera. Pinera was advised not to go to the mine because they may die. He went and he sped things up a lot. He requested and acquired companies help. As a previous company exec. he knew how to get things done.
bambam banned foreign vessels that offered help due to union guarantees GW bypassed after Katrina, the Jones Act I believe.
Pinera embraces bringing Chile forward. bambam golfs as the country goes down the mine.
// NASA – USA //
Heh. A triumph of public enterprise —
“Drawing upon the lessons learned from decades of space missions, experts from NASA helped Chilean authorities work out ways to keep 33 trapped miners healthy and sane during 69 days of confinement. They also helped design the capsule that finally brought the miners to safety. Today, they’re sharing in the celebration —and hoping that the Chileans will share their experiences with the space agency once the dust settles.”
It was a marvellous symphony of international cooperation. The Post’s triumphalism is a comment on its own inablilty to take anything other than its usual view of everything.
35 Chilean miners have already died this year in Chilean mines. Another triumph of Capitalism?
cconn
The vast majority of capitalists ARE ethical and honest.
And we need a lot fewer laws than we presently have.
When the small dead minded cease wallowing in
their pathetic, risible hypocrisy, I’ll stop pointing it out.
Agreed, dmorris????
phil –
Free market captialism – where does that exist? Everywhere, capitalism is perverted by politicians seeking to parasitize it in one way or another to promote their careers – either through taxes, grandstanding regulation, vilification, or all three. Every dollar the politician takes from a corporation is a dollar that neither the workers or the customers or the shareholders will ever see. Wonder what it would be like if corporations had no taxes to pay, and could stick to the knitting. Free market apitalism has vastly improved the lot of common people everywhere it has been introduced, giving them control over their own lives in ways never possible before capitalism’s advent. And so far as wrongdoing goes, the vast majority of regulation is unnecessary, because the criminal code applies to all people, in every walk of life.
Btw, what does ” rural conservative welfare bums from the socialistic public trough ” have to do with commerce?
The one place capitalism has been tried recently, Hong Kong when it was a Crown Colony, resulted in economic growth that gave it a higher per capita income than Britain, at the time of separation.
phil, dizzy – c’mon, waiting for your convincing explanation of how you support yourselves without benefit of capitalism, how much charity work/aid you provide, and when you’re emigrating to NK, the PRC, or Venezuela. Cuba too I suppose – for the moment. 🙂
Yes…still waiting.
Speaking of dead minds, did you really feel your last post needed FOUR question marks?
Cough it up, phil: proof of your own utter lack of hypocrisy, in the form of a mailing address in a Communist country you can be reached at, tax forms, receipts from registered charities. Start a blog and post ’em where we can see ’em – your only anticapitalist cred so far is being a troll at SDA.
A$$wipe!
“The president of the U.S. is campaigning across the country making this statement at nearly every stop:
‘The basic idea is that if we put our blind faith in the market and we let corporations do whatever they want and we leave everybody else to fend for themselves, then America somehow automatically is going to grow and prosper.’
Uh, yeah. That’s a caricature of the basic idea, but basically that’s right.”
Earth to Obama: A high standard of living comes from individuals (including those working for corporations) producing goods and services, and voluntarily trading the products of their labours for mutual benefit. It doesn’t come from waiting for government to give you stuff.
Phil Capitalism does not require a citizen to be lobotomized. You chose the product or you don’t. Socialism requires me to give up independent thought.
You sound like a card carrying Lingenfelter supporter. Union overpaid and scared you will be found out if efficiency comes to town.
From my work experience, no one was more useless than the shop steward. My best job was when all the unskis got sent home on the first day after insisting on their rights. They were outside their base and had seniority of zero. Roadmaster said hit the road homeward.
@Speedy – it’s not just corporations phil and dizzy are against, it’s capitalism. So the best guesss for their occupations wouldn’t be union workers (and my experience with shop stewards mirrors yours big-time, like the deadweight git that sucked beer all night in the locker room) or any kind of worker at all, but welfare recipient. That is the purest expression possible of one’s faith in socialism and loathing of capitalism.
Capitalism does not exist. It is a term popularized by Marx (not Groucho) to try to discredit common sense.
Better terms include entrepreneurialism, enterprise system, market system, price system, free market, economic liberalism, free enterprise, etc.
Add your own suggestions.
JGH22, I liked your list:
High-strength cable: Germany
Fiber-optic communications cable – Japan
Precision Drilling Corp. – Canada
Center Rock – USA
NASA – USA
Cupron Inc. (copper anti-bacterial socks) – USA
Cellphone with projector – South Korea
However, NASA, IMHO, isn’t capitalism. There’s nothing free market about a fat government bureaucracy with a virtual monopoly. It’s funding should be reduced significantly and space should be open to free markets, not exclusive to governments.
Call it capitalism if you like.
I prefer the free market system.
In it, there is a provider of goods or services a consumer demands.
In the socialist mythology, the supplier of goods (who risks his capital for a possible profit) exploits the consumer and makes an unreasonable return for the money he risks.
So, instead of a marketplace of voluntary buyers and voluntary sellers, the socialist positions himself as a champion of the little guy (consumer).
Eventually, the socialist creates a condition where they become the supplier. That’s accomplished by taking over (nationalizing) the means of production.
In the end, therefore, the socialist is vying to become the producer which he purports to hate.
But, that’s OK, since their meritocratic accomplishments make them wiser than the stupid consumer.
They know what’s best.
Am I missing anything, phil?
remember back when they tried to privatize RAIN WATER in Bolivia?
Oh no! People had to get a permit! Just like in, uh, Colorado.
Posted by: Waterhouse at October 14, 2010 7:36 PM ”
and
wailing about the privatization of Cochabamba’s water system were getting their knickers in a knot over possible interpretations of the Bolivian law which was passed, not any actual transgression.”
so lemme see if I got this ‘right’. because colorado attempted the same licencing, that invalidates objections to bechtel trying to do it in Bolivia? weird. and because the ‘lefty’ protesters didn’t wait UNTIL THE REGULATION WAS IN PLACE AND BEING USED, that too invalidates their objection?
talk about convoluted arguments. sooooooo typical of the ‘right’ wing which needs a damn good crack on the elbow on occasion.
dizzy, for the last time: how about that plan to move to NK, PRC? Your income, your support system, your charitable works other than trolling SDA? You guys are good at being broken records and tape loops, but not very good at answering the f*cking question.
Occurs to me too that if you’re working for capitalists you’re hypocritical, so is being a weflare recipient, since you are living off the avails of capitalism. Either way, you’re a no-lobes non sequitur-spouting useless loser.
What a surprise: the WSJ scripts a tasteless paean to capitalism based on a red herring, and you all gobble it up. News flash: despite Daniel Herringer’s best efforts, President Obama isn’t actually a socialist. Unless, of course, your definition of “socialism” is anything to the left of the Republican Party.
Why is it that, in the SDA world, the choices are always so stark, either-or, black and white? Unfettered free markets, or oppressive socialism. Laissez-faire capitalism, or a state-run society. Can’t we just agree that nobody in the real world–Obama included–is calling for either, that both extremes is dangerous, that even folks from Adam Smith to Ronald Reagan recognized the importance of striking a balance between the two?
Aside from a few far-left nutters, nobody is denying that capitalism and free markets have produced innovations and benefits to society, or saying that they should be abolished. But unfettered capitalism/free markets do produce real harms, and government–as the elected representatives of the people (in theory, anyway)–are in the best position to prevent and mitigate those harms. Do we need reminding that before government-imposed health and occupational safety regulations on industry (along with improved capitalist-driven private sector technological innovations), mining accidents were a far more common and deadly occurrence, and workers were far more likely to become sick or die from toxic work conditions?
Reasonable people can disagree on what that balance should be, but all agree that some balance is important. It’s unfortunate that so many here seem unable or unwilling to see that, and would rather perpetuate this divisive, partisan drivel.
Davenport, you are a troll “ìn the SDA world” or why would you be here at all? Who the hell are you to call anyone here divisive?
A few far-left nutters is in reality millions upon millions of far-left nutters – you must live in a cave if you don`t know that. Troglodytes don`t have anything useful to offer in my experiece, so – pffft.
Chesterfield:
Do you have any evidence that anybody here is advocating for unfettered free markets?
Of course, there has to be rules and that follows that there must be a rule of law.
Other than helping those who CANNOT help themselves, one of the main roles of the state is to set up the rules by which individuals can make choices for themselves.
Can’t speak for everybody here, but put me down in favour of a limited government.
Any questions?