Offside, CPC. Ten yard penalty, repeat second down.

86 Replies to “Offside, CPC. Ten yard penalty, repeat second down.”

1. Lance – I disagree.
   The cfl is useful to the NFL to the small extent that it gives them some anti-trust protection – that there is a competing professional league. But the NFL could care less about its training ground potential there are lots of capable athletes graduating from college every year.
   When (not if) the NFL comes to Canada the cfl may not die but it will certainly be a very diminished semi-pro league as it will lose mos of its tv income and probably Toronto and maybe Hamilton. Team in QC, saint John, Halifax, London etc could spring up but maybe not.

2. If ALL municipalities/government at every level laid off the subsidies for stadiums, we would still have professional sports. As was mentioned, the problem is, the funding of the proposed stadium is always tied into some other popular ballot initiative, or spending proposal, and 2 ideas, neither of which have sufficient merit individually are funded. CAll it logrolling.
   Stadium tickets are priced at a level the market will bear. Owners well know that because higher ticket prices will result in smaller crowds, they know there is a limit to what they can charge per ticket. So the way to boost profits is to get someone else to pay for their stadium. The fact that stadium expenses are off the income statement also means the owners have a greater ability to pay players – a major cause of skyrocketing salaries. Owner’s profits are in large part paid by taxpayers when the stadium’s built at public expense, and many of them could care less about sport if it costs them tax dollars.
   Only possible way to justify public subsidies to pro sports is to put it to referendum at a general election.
   Generally speaking,though, at the present time, do we need any more ” worthy causes ” for the government to sink money in?

3. “I am a CPC member, but my patience is running out.
   There are many places to take a stand but the long form census is not one of them. Nor are shiny new jails.
   Conservatism is supposed to be about common sense.
   What’s going wrong and how de we get back on track?
   Posted by: jlc at September 11, 2010 1:27 PM
   Sorry,jlc. Kate just doesn’t have enough BW to answer your last question.

4. Gord Tulk and Indian H offer reasoned information that we should consider. Certainly sports is the only thing that kept me in school (Ok ,well , girls were also an attraction but sports and girls were not mutually exclusive… that’ll drive the progressive dead poet society mad). The esprit de corps of sports is a vital part of education. Unfortunately it is a cultural thing for Canadians to think that sports and schooling are not part of our cultural “because we aren’t Americans”. Yet Canadians know it is OK to have fun; the question is: at whose expense?
   “Did any of you know that since 1995 there have been 21 new NFL football stadiums built? All including public funding!!”
   That ain’t gonna happen in Canada, even on a per capita basis. But what might work are ideas like government ratification for new refineries and new transmission lines from Newfoundland to where-ever. That would create jobs and then private enterprise might be encouraged with tax incentives to sponsor more athletic endeavours in this country.
   In short we need strategies on these matters that apply to the overall nation; similar to when building the railroad tied us together. Without a strategy, we get into petty one-off reactionary arena-type squabbles and provincial rivalries.

5. Talk to me when they actually fork over the cash.
   Right now, you folks in the spittle-flinging crowd are snarling at absolutely nothing.
   Relax.

6. Excuse me Harper you refuse ot give injured vets disability pensions in favour of a one time cash payment because it would be to expensive to take care of our Injured Vets. Give them the money to build a rink lad and you can kiss half your Conservative voters goodbye.

7. Yukon Gold said … and I paraphrase:
   1. Keep Your Mouth Shut
   2. Trust Us
   3. Send Cash

8. YG, what part of any of the current gov’t over the last four years gives you any hope about whether they’ll take the conservative path?
   What part of the governing Tories ignoring the vast majority of party policy do you not get yet?

9. Mark Steyn put it best when he commented that long ago Canada, Britain, Australia, etc. lost true conservative parties. Now we have CINOs = Conservatives In Name Only
   Many people vote for these CINOs mostly because they feel that they’re the best (or least worst) ones to manage the social welfare states that we now live in.

10. Sorry Lance, but you’re wrong.
    The CFL is insignificant to the NFL. Youth is where it’s at, and by the time CFL’ers make the big leagues they’re too old(typically). In a league with thousands, spare me your handful of examples please.
    What CFL fans fail to realize is that a Canadian NFL franchise in T.O. will savage the CFL’s portion of TV revenues(and corporate). The fact is, advertising $$ are finite and will move from CFL broadcasts to NFL broadcasts on TSN and SportsNet. The CFL will not survive under it’s current model and these circumstances. As far as the Bills in T.O., it means nothing. Bills fans can travel from T.O. to Buffalo and watch the games cheaper, and better match-ups. The apparent lack of success with the Bills in T.O. is simple a straw that delusional CFL fans are grasping at.
    Sorry small ‘c’, you’re living in the 80’s, the Pre-Gretzky trade days. Corporate and TV revenue is the game today. All NFL teams are in the black before one ticket is sold. If stadiums are not built/renovated, those teams will go where they are competitive. Nobody want’s to pay good money for crap(see my movie theater analogy).
    Now I’m not saying “fund stadiums”; I’m simply saying you can’t have it both ways. And as I said, it will be the federal politicians that save the CFL through protectionist measures; if at all. As much as I’d like to see an NFL here at home, I’m also conscious of the harm it will cause to Canada’s culture. Typically I don’t support government intervention in the name of culture; but, if an argument can be made for it, this seems to be a legitimate case of it. I don’t watch too much CFL, but I don’t want to see it gone. It’s too important, and in this case I would bend my conservative values to protect that part of our culture and history.
    Later

11. Indiana: “I’m also conscious of the harm it will cause to Canada’s culture.”
    Good post but pretel, what is Canada’s culture – and what is there left to harm?
    I think our culture went out the door in 1967. (’72 was a flash in the pan.)
    Ironic you’d stand for Canada’s culture with a name like Indiana 😉

12. 2010 Quebec Budget
    – Conference Board of Canada
    “By 2011-12, debt servicing costs will eat up nearly $8 BILLION of Quebec’s provincial budget”…
    In the face of a rapidly aging population (and and the resulting shrinking tax base)…..
    ..Quebec is arguably in the most precarious fiscal position. The provincial net debt now stands at $129 billion – equal to 43% of provicial GDP.
    …..According to the OECD, Quebec is in the 5th worst position in terms of fiscal debt burden in the western industrialized world…..”
    RTWT at http://www.conferenceboard.ca/topics/budgets/quebec-2010
    Quebec needs to grow up and earn their money to spend.
    And this is another reason why no Quebecers should ever again allowed to be the federal govt minister of anything.

13. The msm are ‘ginning’ this hockey stadium to bring out the anti Quebec crowd that the msm perceive is out there in the ‘wild west’. It is unimportant to me because I really have very little interest in Quebec! Quebec is a foreign place to me; much like the present president of USA is a foreign entity. I do not have anything in common with either and I have very little curiosity about what they say or do. The American people can rid themselves of the latter at the voting box; it would be wonderful if we could do the same, here in Canada, with the former. If Quebec got a hockey rink, I would not be in it or cheering for the Quebec team because they would not identify with any Western Canadian or want my support; it is blancmange to me.
    The kindness and patience that PMSH has offered to this ungrateful group of ‘gimmi, gimmi’s’ has earned my admiration and respect. The whinny province elects separtistas to sit in our HOC and then demands reparations from the country that ‘hosts’ their Communist based life style. What is wrong with us? We ask our PM to rein in our own band of blackmailers while we sit back and do nothing. Our PM knows what ickky and his ilk would do in his stead, the troika would drag this nation into a deep, deep recession. This rink is a rinky dinky issue, IMO. I don’t care about it. I care about the bigger issue; a changing of the guard. I live in the Yukon, 100% dependant on federal handouts – amounting to much more $$ than a rink in Quebec City. The Yukon is a territory chuck full of resources, locked up by enviro weenies and land claims. Every year southern tax payers shell out millions to support a lame duck territory that hoards it’s wealth and refuses to hatch any eggs.
    The Fed gov. invested millions in a Hydro project to attempt to help make the Yukon financially independent but the gument here ‘sold’ their half of the project to ATCO. Nobody said boo! I think this, and luxury welfare for non Canadians squatting on our turf should be an issue for tax payers; a rink in Quebec, not so much.

14. Oh, bullspit, Cjunk.
    You’re wetting the bed based on a false premise. There’s been nothing but a suggestion that they may put some cash into the thing.
    I’ll use your quaint-but-trite summation back on you:
    1. Read media report
    2. Freak out immediately, tear up membership card
    3. Tell everybody you’ve been right all along.
    Answer me this: What, exactly, has been put in action or even proposed by those in power?
    Sweet Eff Aye, that’s what. Unbunch your underthings for a minute and let the story play out.
    THIS is why conservative governments fail without question, and it’s not due to a lack of conservative values. Whenever there’s a hint of something not lock-step in line with the ideoilogy, the un-useful idiots (to mangle a stolen phrase) immediately pull out their knives.

15. Oh, forgot to sum up:
    Do ANY of you think it’s a coincidence that the PMO office promised to “think” about it, and the next day out trots Quebecker Maxime Bernier to shoot down the thought?
    Did none of your moms ever promise to think about getting you a new bike or a pony? You knew what that meant when you were a kid — no way.
    Are you so anxious to throw your toys out of the pram that critical thought has been totally abandoned?
    Hey, I may be wrong. I seriously doubt I am, though, and I’d be willing to put a wager on it.
    Until it happens, I’m not going to freak out. I know that makes for poor blog traffic and feelings of moral superiority, but I can live with it.

16. In Edmonton Mandel is still trying to get his uptown New NHL rink. Unfortunately for him we run the place. As he’s finding out in the airport fracas.
    People will eventually get one but not before the public knows who’s paying for it, & how much its going to cost us. He got his Art gallery for the Elite to have a watering hole of their own. This though is in the hands of fans, tax payers.
    We don’t wait, or rely on governments to build or not.
    Which is why Quebec is more a slave state than they can comprehend. Its always others money plus time they demand.
    If Harper goes for this it would be insanity. After his bowing before the Islamic crescent yesterday. Who knows if he’s even living in reality anymore. Like the rest of Ottawa. He’s become entitled, to his entitlements.
    Frankly I see no reason to vote anymore. Slow death or fast is the choice now.
    The professional politicians have left us no other way.
    JMO

17. I didn’t want to give the impression that I’m in favour of this boondoggle, just trying to explain my theory of what the CPC strategists are thinking.
    And if they are confident that such a move would net them a majority government, then I’d accept it as a necessary, albeit unpalatable expense of getting a Conservative majority. The flip side of the coin is that if they gain a majority by such a strategy, they had damn well better use that majority to enact some policies near and dear to me, or lose my support, such as it is.
    As far as pro sports go, in general, I have next to no use for them. In a perfect world, they’d be funded by their own revenue, and see not a dime from my pocket, unless I chose to go to a game. Problem is, there’s a lot of people out there that don’t have a life, and live vicariously through their choice of sports heroes. And there are enough such people that politicians seek their votes.

18. YG: I think you miss the point entirely. This is just another case of PM Harper and his band of sycophants grossly mismanaging the narrative. What? you think that this little case would be enough to ditch Harper … of course not.
    Only thing is, it’s just another one of the growing list of PMO cock-ups that have put a majority government beyond reach; simply because PM Harper and Co. have the communication skills of zombies. Harper has had two chances; time for someone else to take the helm; time for the renewal a leadership race would bring.
    In that light, your response is the typical one that the hacks in the CPC dish out; all excuses; all poo-pooing those who see the writing on the wall.
    1. Keep Your Mouth Shut
    2. Trust Us
    3. Send Money

19. YG…please send ALL your pension to Queerbec,then wait and see…..same as when your house(state supplied in Whitehorse)starts burning,we’ll just wait and see.

20. Well said Yukon Gold.
    It has been noted over a period of time that certain people’s panties are in a knot over the present leadership of the CPC, here and one other place which touts its’ political philosophy as ‘principled conservatism’.
    The sneering reference to any who do not agree with ‘their’ militant anti-P.M. opinions as “harper-bots” simply reflects a lack of respect for any opinion which conflicts with theirs.
    Any attempt to have a reasonable discussion with these people over our present Prime Minister is usually, if not always, impossible.
    `

21. The comments at:
    http://www.maximebernier.com/en/2010/09/ma-position-sur-le-projet-de-nouvel-amphitheatre-a-quebec/#more-2235
    Are pricelss.

22. Indiana Homez, I agree, concerning the likelihood of sports fans /voters suddenly acquiring a guilty conscience over forcing the general tax paying public into paying for their good times, and giving up on public financing of stadia. It does not seem likely to happen.
    No question, teams will be moved if the choice is a quarter billion difference ( or thereabouts ) to the bottom line, over a couple decades, which is what publicly financed stadiums generally add. That’s my point: subsidy is a large element in owner’s relocation decisions; but not the only one, and a lot of cities should, at a minimum, consider their strategic position, and see if they can bag their quarry with anything less than the 100% public financing, IF voters give their consent.
    Regarding the posts re: CPC: I cede to no one first place in anger over ” conservatives ” making seemingly pointless surrenders on matters of principle, no matter how small the matter. But, anyone interested in progress in politics has to be reconciled to sometimes being disappointed on some minor issues that are nevertheless dear to the heart. And it matters if some of these fairly minor compromises are part of a strategy that brings in a majority. It’s maddening to see years in the political wilderness end in anything less than the utter political extermination of fascists like the Libranos, but, face it, Harper doesn’t have the power to really attack all the bases of the Liberals simultaneously and start the cards tumbling big time. Besides, it’s hard to see who would do better than Harper; there isn’t exactly an obvious Pericles waiting in the wings.

23. In this era of corporate names for entertainment venues I propose the following: If QC takes our money for an arena they will agree to name it the “Canadian Taxpayers Coliseum” or something similar. Maybe SDA could sponsor a name the arena contest!

24. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, “Bernier is the only real conservative in that caucus of dead fish that calls itself the CPC.”
    Could it have something to do with testosterone levels? Perish the thought.

25. Cjunk, you are always against the CPC so stop your blathering about how Harper is useless because he doesn’t jump through the hoops you hold up. Your posts are exactly why conservatives are rarely in power, too many of their so-called supporters are never there for the long haul while Liberals and the left simply don’t care.
    Witness what McGuinty has done to Ontario where our best premier, in MHO, Harris is still demonized.
    Communication, read any publications like the Red Star, G&M or Macleans and there are rarely anything positive about Harper and the CPC. I have written letter after letter to Macleans complaining about this and finally cancelled my subscription because they hammer Harper from the first page to the last, which is where his obituary will be.
    Small recent examply, the F-35 fighter jet, too expensive, not needed, what about the poor, scream the MSM while Cretin’s pissing away of $500 million in penalties is just details.
    Now we have you and your cohorts here on SDA bitching and moaning. Of course when the Liberals win the next election and we become Greece II you will be the first to trumpet, I told you so.

26. It isn’t that it is a sports facility. The Feds always help out wih those when it is wrapped around minor sports events etc. I expect that. It is the amount and the way the deal came down that bothers me. It was used as blackmail. Quebec expects to get something for nothing using threats.
    You can’t buy Quebec, you can only rent it until the election and then they will do what benefits them most. That is fair, they don’t care about the ROC. Tired of the tactic, tired of the result.

27. Greece the II Dave?
    IN recent history two political parties have been in power.
    One cut the debt dramatically and eliminated the deficit.
    The other returned to deficit and went back into debt.
    Guess which is which.

28. Dave: Above I stated that CPC Harper fans blame the media, and often blame Canadians for being too stupid … I guess I forgot one … blame CPC members who don’t fall in line.
    1. Keep Your Mouth Shut
    2. Trust Us
    3. Send Money

29. The City of Hamilton is presently in a panic to replace the falling-down Ivor Wynne stadium down on crappy old Cannon Street because the owner of the Hamilton tiger Cats threatened to move the team to Quebec. Personally, I’d have wished him bon chance.
    Instead, umpteen million tax dollars will of course be spent to produce an over priced, under featured public edifice so that a PRIVATE COMPANY (the Tiger Cats) can continue putting on shows for profit (football games) with a bunch of other private companies (the CFL) for the edification of people who feel like paying to see that sort of thing.
    Seeing as how its a for-profit sort of thing, shouldn’t they be building their -own- stadium? I mean, doesn’t Walmart build their own stores?
    Official CPC lurkers, I know you are out there so take note. Your base doesn’t like tax money spent on this kind of thing.
    Now to all the “Harper isn’t Conservative enough” types:
    1. No he’s not, and he’s probably got some reasons for that since he’s not a complete idiot. Like, his entire government infrastructure is a bunch of Liberal Party loyalists aching stick a pipe in his spokes. Just ferinstance.
    2. Too bad, this is the best we have right now.
    3. If you need something to bolster your resolve to make the CPC work instead of crying like a bunch of little girls, just repeat these words quietly to yourself, “Prime Minister Ignatieff”.

30. Phantom: “Harper isn’t Conservative enough”
    That’s not my complaint … I’m not that naive. My complaint is that he doesn’t have the personality to get a majority; that he’s running a sandbagged PMO where he’s surrounded by sycophants and hacks; that he’s created a climate of national tribalism and political hackery that is indistinguishable from the LPC; that not once has the PMO been able to seize and hold the narrative; that he doesn’t treat his base like adults least of all other Canadians; that his character is incredibly dull forcing him to use trickery and double talk instead of persuasion.
    There is no reason, none, why Canadians in the middle should take a chance on him other than the last two LPC leaders were duds. If the LPC gets a real leader (and their traditional impatience with losers will eventually find one), or if they so much as nudges to the middle, we are done.
    My guess is though, that if Mr. Harper is the great leader some of you think, that he’ll stun everyone by quitting and will trigger a leadership contest just in time for the next election. It won’t matter much who will win that, because the race will cleanse the palette and present Canadians with a new fresh choice, riding on the huge bump in the polls that well choreographed leadership races always provide.
    You see Phantom, I know a rut when I see one, and I don’t give a rip how “nice” the leader may be, or what he did in the past if he can’t do the job, just like any CEO … I don’t want to lose. I am fully aware that a majority of Canadians voted for leftwing MPs, and unless something is done to get some of them to come over, this is as good as it gets for the CPC. With Harper we are just “ragging the puck” until someone steals it and scores.

31. I dissagree cjunk
    i think harper is pandering to the leftist’s for now and once he get’s his majority he will swing far over to the right .

32. Well Dave I’m not anyone’s fan, I’m living the nightmare called VA and let me tell you something Mr. Smug pant’s I’ll criticise Harper and his merry band of Diet Cons whenever I feel so compelled. Your rude smug post is indicative of why so many Conservatives have no faith in the Conservative Party, you want blind obedience go get a dog Dave but quit lecturing those of us fed up with Harper’s spending spree.

33. Faith is for religion Paul in Calgary, not politics.
    Politics is about “show me”. There is no hidden agenda.

34. Rogers has it’s hands on the buf franchise already with rumoired plans to build a new stadium on the malton airport lands.
    The Malton airport lands?! What, exactly, are those? Malton is the old name for Toronto International, aka Pearson. Try looking at it on Google Maps. There are no open “lands” – it’s covered in office and industrial buildings to the north and west, and residential building to the south. And why you would want to plunk a sports stadium down next to an airport is beyond me – baseball players at Shea and tennis players have complained about jet noise from Laguardia, and YYZ is a much busier airport.
    NFL team in Toronto? Doubtful. The Raptors are struggling with attendance, the Jays have never recaptured their glory days, the Argos play in front of empty seats. The only team that packs them in is the Leafs, and I swear that’s only from force of habit. And despite what people say about Toronto fans, I think they’re actually smart. They are getting pissed off at baseball players (Al Leiter, AJ Burnett) who come here with big problems, get straightened out, and then leave town at their first opportunity, and US basketball players (Carter, Bosh, Stoudamire, Davis) who similarly can’t wait to leave, and then make incredibly stupid comments on the way out. (Davis: “My kids would have to learn the metric system!” Bosh: “It smells different.”) That’s why attendance for both teams has suffered; if you don’t want to play here, we don’t want to pay for you. I don’t see that the NFL would be any different.

35. KevinB, on the other hand I hear that cricket is picking up. ~:D
    If I might hazard an opinion, possibly the declining attendance in Toronto has a lot to do with ticket prices and a declining audience. Do immigrants cheer for the Argos? I’m thinking no.
    Likewise, do guys from Whereverstan want to pay $80-$120 a seat to see American millionaires play a ball game the Whereverstanis don’t know the rules to? Again, thinking no. Soccer they might pay to see. Or maybe goat racing.

36. Kevin B
    My apologies, I meant downsview airport. In an on- air conversation with none other than Bob McCown, bob informed me that this area has long been looked at for both and NFL stadium AND a replacement stadium for the Blue Jays. There is plenty of room for them and much, much more.
    Rogers is already in partnership with the Bills to have several regular season games in toronto each year and it is no secret that Rogers has been interested in purchasing the bills and moving them to toronto – the fourth largest media market in north america – shortly after the bills aging owner passes.
    As fans, Torontonians are like many others – it is not the game being played it is the stature of the league involved and whether the team is a winner. The leafs are a big exception to that rule. (but it is not because torontonians love hockey – otherwise the marlies would have more than the miserable attendance they do – chalk it up to tradition heritage and no local competition – before steinbrenner and partners bought the yankees the mets were the biggest draw in town – i digress)
    If the raptors or jays were vying for a title the fans would return. They are both in world class leagues. The argos will not draw huge even of they begin winning again because the CFL is barely better than a semi-pro house league in comparison to the NFL. They a beneath toronto’s world-city status.
    Torontonians consider their city to have no peer in Canada. And they are largely correct – at least in terms of their size as a media market. and in Pro sports that is almost all that matters.