UPDATE: Actual Defamation Lawyer Ezra Levant posts excerpts of the Kay column at his site.
***
It’s up at FreeDominion, but has disappeared from the Post’s own site.
Was it in the print edition?
UPDATE: Actual Defamation Lawyer Ezra Levant posts excerpts of the Kay column at his site.
***
It’s up at FreeDominion, but has disappeared from the Post’s own site.
Was it in the print edition?
It’s not in my print copy; guess their pussy corporate lawyers got cold feet.
From a Pelly boy…no broadband here but it has disappeared. Even smoke signals are being wiped out of the sky?
Comments on the Farber and Rudner (saving Warman)story are getting interesting though.
Called the “Cone of Silence” – before the Shit Storm a commeth?
The National Post, just another media outlet afraid of it’s own shadow. Rather than turn the spot-light on people such as Mr. Warman they let him hide.
Remember when journalism had integrity?
When newspapers weren’t afraid to face evil?
Neither do I!!!
no worries, I’m sure the CBC will step up to the p[late and send in their ace investigative reporters to suss out Warman’s odious quest for multicultural purity.
I assume they are available since their 20 years of lynch mob journalism against Brian Mulroney have come up dry.
Again.
Not to worry, folks… the internet is here, and so are folks with ‘nads.
Richie Warman’s Liberal Fascist and pseudo-Nazi days are numbered.
It was taken down because it is false and defamatory, obviously
Those who have reprinted it many times – like this site and Levants and Miss Shaidle’s – should hire a lawyer, in my opinion
I don’t understand Farber’s rationale for the position he is taking. Common sense would suggest that the greater threat to Jewish Canadians is not neo-nazis. So applauding the Richard Warmans of the world and their attempts to shut down debate about the threat of radical Islamists by using s.13 of the HRC, only allows that threat to grow outside of the spotlight of free speech. I don’t see any attempt by the CJC to bring Human Rights actions against the toxic statements made by radical Islamists, so Farber seems to think the s. 13 provisions of the HRC should only be used against those on the right. He seems comfortable in the stifling of freedom of speech, all for the preservation of a tool which is both unnecessary and unused in the battles of his organization. It’s almost as if he is more concerned about fighting those whose views fall on the conservative side of the scale than those whose views are often backed up by the type of action which should be the focus of our hate laws. As someone else pointed out, the person responsible for the murder of Pamela Waechter was not a neo-nazi. What’s stopping Mr. Farber from taking aim at the real problem?
ads: Unlike actions to the CHRC, a libel/defamation suit allows the truth as a full defence. So while the litigious Mr. Warman could still bring a libel/defamation lawsuit, his chances of success would be much less than his preferred home court of the CHRC. But it could still be that the wimps at the National Post don’t want to spend the cost of legal fees to ward off Mr. Warman or Lucy or whatever he is calling himself today.
Those who have reprinted it many times – like this site and Levants and Miss Shaidle’s – should hire a lawyer, in my opinion.
Obviously, NOT. That’s ridiculous. Want to step forward and really identify yourself? Are you Warman’s mother or what?
ads,
ah yes ‘free’ legal advice — and worth every penny. Last time I listened to a non-lawyer about a blog post, I endured a week of pointless pain.
no thanks. but I’m sure mark steyn and his qc’s will take your anonymous cowardly advice under advisement.
Kay may have earned a lateral promotion. Don’t tread on the Asper’s toes. After all:
“Canadian Museum for Human Rights
On 23 April 2007, Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced that Canada’s New Government had reached agreement with public and private sector partners to establish the Canadian Museum for Human Rights, as a national museum in Winnipeg.”
http://tinyurl.com/235zjc
…-
WK has flatulence/influence:
“Then, in fifth spot, my post about the Post, and leaving same due to – inter alia – Jon Kay’s determination to mock human rights, even when his employer has worked diligently and nobly, for years, to establish a human rights museum.”
(google cache)
Kay’s article is here:
http://tinyurl.com/35xjjd
Ads, we’ve learnt to beware Liberal Fascists advising to retain counsel.
We can tell whether something’s defamatory or not; it doesn’t require a law degree. Liberal Fascists ought to understand that and quit making fools of themselves making idle threats of legal action, like Warren Kinsella.
Heh, Maz, I believe WK has more flatulence than influence!
Hey a new word has been coined! Inflatulence! Good work Sentinel.
Museum of human rights? What a joke. ‘Human rights’ is a relative term. One man’s human right is another man’s persecution.
Here’s how it really works.
“a handful of might is worth a bagful of right”
As in all things, from the jungles of that topical trash heap called Africa right on up to the nut house we call parliament, the biggest monkey rules.
@Paul who writes “The National Post, just another media outlet afraid of it’s own shadow.”
I think the Post deserves a lot of credit. Let’s look at their content over the last week or so.
1. Printed Kate’s excellent op-ed piece
2. Printed Kathy Shaidle’s work
3. Re-printed one of the Mohammed cartoons
4. Booted Warren Kinsella from its ranks
5. Front page story on the Hezbollah clown blown-up last week was headlined with “terrorist” and “mass-murderer”
Given the above, we can’t lump the Post in with other media outlets.
Yeah, I’m willing to support the National Post should they
continue to show some backbone. We’ll have to wait & see.
Kays column misses the a broader point. I don’t think that the point was to hunt down people who used nasty language in itself.
It was necessary to create a stepping stone to link Canada’s conservative movement to racism.
Pretty tough to do unless you have some racists (real or imagined) to trot out to validate your point.
I remeber seeing anti racism posters go up (Erasism) in Government offices in about 1994, shortly after Chretien and the Libs won the 1993 election.
Seemed like just another self congratulatory feel good Lib program at the time.
Looking back however, the launch of this program seemed to conveniently appear and coincide with the ascendancy of the Reform Party, which was coming on like a freight train winning 52 seats in the 93 election and striking a solid chord with voters based on their policies as outlined in their highly successful bluebook released in 1991.
Another book that was released around then (in 1994) was Kinsellas “Web of hate: Inside Canada’s far right network”. Kinsellas “work” with the Chretien Liberals as a master spinmeister has been well documented since then.
All of the sudden Canada has a full blown manufactured race crisis on its hands, (which with aformentioned hindsight we should question the veracity of given the players), the next step was to hang it around the Reform Partys neck.
A quote out of context by Bob Ringma, and a stink bomb candidate, conveniently located in TO, and the Reform/Racist narrative was born.
Liberal anti gay MP Roseanne Skoke proudly voiced more controversial comments at the same time, but the media declined to connect her personal views with that of the Liberal Party – a courtesy not afforded the Reform.
Add to the mix the actions and appearance of “neo Naze” Grant Bristow.
A passage from a Kevin Steel essay at http://kevinsteel.org/2008/02/03/stirring-it-up-again/
“Then there is the matter of Jean Chrétien’s letter. A day after Grant Bristow appeared at a major Reform Party rally on January 22, 1992 in Pickering, Ont., as a bodyguard for Preston Manning, opposition leader Jean Chrétien released a letter accusing the Reform Party of being racist. The letter was reported in the press. A month later, the news of the Heritage Front’s connection to the Reform Party breaks in the news and forever after the party is accused of being racist. A coincidence, you could say, except that Warren Kinsella was working for Chrétien at the time, and these coincidences pile up around Kinsella.”
So it could be argued that the greatest success of the Nazi hunters was not the finding and prosecution of said Nazis, but the linking to and resultant destruction of the Reform Party.
The fact that there never was a real neo Nazi threat in Canada, makes me think that perhaps the whole thing was a master spin job that was created for that very purpose.
Ads: speaking as an experienced systems administrator and technician, it’s my opinion that the logfile evidence so far is extremely damning so far as Mr. Warman is concerned.
Ward – “The fact that there never was a real neo Nazi threat in Canada, makes me think that perhaps the whole thing was a master spin job that was created for that very purpose.”
The very reason that Warren Kinsella got involved in the first place!
If Mr. Warman had a leg to stand on he’d be launching suits in a Court of Law, not taking his hurt feelings to Canada’s kangaroo HRCs. His choice of venue says everything you need to know.
Ward. You it the nail right on the head. The “nazi” moniker was used to describe us Reformers from day one. I was very offended by the whole thing, considering that I has just finished 8 years service defending democracy.
I still get dirty looks from “progressives” to this day.
But that is ok. We elected Mike Harris for 2 terms, and now we have PMSH. I guess the trick is not to let the bigoted, howling, moronic libranos knock you off your game plan.
Good things come to those with patience.(And what can I say, I had to pound the piss out of a few of those bigoted arseholes).
One other thing. A comment from a leftarded moonbat has stuck with me to this day.
I was working as a campaign manager during a municipal election. My candidate was proposing a form of workfare for our esteemed welfare recipients(before Mike Harris implemented the program). This one moonbat kept showing up at the debates, and her only line was “you want to resurrect the third reich”.
I kid you not!
Stop, stop – I order you ad.
“Please send me your address for service”
signed Lucy and the Giant Lizard
Winsella made it plain on his site: all his recent ‘anti-Nazi’, pro-HRC noise + his ‘departure’ from the Post are about one thing: getting ‘back in the war room.’
Quelle poseur! Nothing but a sham; nothing but feel-good posing so he can once again resume his role as the Prince of Darkness!
Get behind me, Satan/Warren!
Speculation only.
The Post would have removed it because the reference to the Anne Cools post is under dispute. Warman admitted to being Lucy but has not admitted, nor has it been proven, that he posted the Anne Cools post. There has been evidence offered, but there is a dispute, Warman denies others allege and no court has ruled.
That Post needs to be scrupulous about these things. You can come to your own conclusion about it and have your own opinion.
If there are letters that are sent to Ezra and Kathy I am not sure how the court fight would play out. I believe Kathy and Ezra would have to prove that they reasonably believed it to be a true statement….I belive that the burden rests with the person who makes the statement.
Nonetheless it would open up the case to scrutiny. The Post may not have felt it worth its while and maintain a different standard. Levant and Shaidle may be terribly willing to go to court and have the issue examined. Mr Warman may not wish the publicity….speculation only.
Levant and Shaidle’s reprinting is effectively one big “double dog dare”. The betting window is now open as to whether it will ever go to court.
One man’s human right is another man’s persecution. -John West
–Thanks for that, John. I believe I’ll use it, and will attribute it appropriately.
i hate stupid people . where does that leave me? most people are stupid.
“Get behind me, Satan/Warren!”
I’m not much on theology, but I think Satan is reputed to be rather a clever fellow. Warren is more like an older, wrinkly version of cherniak.
Seriously, what “war room” will want some dufus that gets kicked around on the internet?
Seems Kay was uncomfortable with Klatt’s extracurricular activities and was unwilling to stake his own reputation on the affadavit.
Prudent.
Once again people are free to hold their own opinions on the matter. The hypothesis on the IP logs is reasonable to me, but those logs and the evidence havent been tested in court.
I have said before that a non-controversial third party would have been better to support the allegation. Mr Klatt would appear to have a dog in the fight and therfore is open to challenges. That doesnt make him wrong, it just makes the allegation vulnerable to attack. Which is why the Rogers records would have been ideal, disinterested, trusted third party that would have corroborated evidence.
“Which is why the Rogers records would have been ideal, disinterested, trusted third party that would have corroborated evidence.”
Aye and there’s the rub – does anyone know how long an ISP is required to keep client records?
Disinterested third party. Posted awhile ago:
http://www.catprint.ca/blog/blog/misc/odds.html
I agree with Stephen, but Kay could have maintained the piece with full disclosure about Klatt and the nature of the evidence. If someone has filed Klatt’s affadavit with the court, then it is in the public record and can certainly be quoted, excerpted or summarized with appropriate caveats. Still, if Kay personally doesn’t feel right running the story based on what he knows of Klatt, then that is his right and he wouldn’t be ethical if he did run it. It is unfortunate that a more neutral expert was not used – is it too late to have one verify server logs or whatever now?
Catfur,
Came up in other threads…connie had posted the answer, 3 years I believe. There is a sworn statement from Rogers which says they dont have the records and some interesting testimony that backs up their story that it, the common IP being with someone different, is highly unlikely. Once again not definitive.
Note on log files …. just because Rogers policy on official record keeping says three years doe not mean that records are not actually still available.
But, it does give Rogers an excuse not to look.
It would be interesting to have an insider who might know of an memos going around the network ops and IT departments in that company!!
Check out the update at Ezra’s site. Kay took down the post himself and was hardly cowed by the Prince Of Feckless.
In civil court, the burden of proof is ‘the balance of probabilities’. It doesn’t have to be definitive.
My theory on WK: he knows that Dion is a lost cause, and needs to provide as much squink (an old UseNet term meaning “squid ink”, or obfuscation, in order to muddy the waters…it is just classic political misdirection.
He has gone completely off the deep end with this human rights stuff. He is now comparing free speech with Rwanda…
James thanks for the laugh….Frank Burns LOL!!! And speaking of Burnses….I told Kinsella that I thought Monty was looking for a new LICKSPITTLE!
I think that it is important, with regard to the ‘Senator Cools’ post, that Richard Warman is completely silent on this allegation that he wrote it. Given that both he and Kinsella are ‘quick to sue and threaten’, it is interesting that he is utterly silent and inactive on this issue.
As for Kinsella and his strategy of defamation of others by tarring them with the image of ‘racist!!, eg, his tactic of dealing with the Reform Party during his time as Chretien’s sidekick was to use the MSM propaganda machine to assert that Reform was ‘racist’. Oh, and the ‘hidden agenda/Harper is scary’ has to be typical Kinsella tactics as well.
That is, the Kinsella strategy is to accuse without evidence; you do this by words and images without facts. Works quite well, since most people figure that if the WORD is out on the street, then, it must be supported by reality.
All the old ‘smoke means fire’ rubbish.. The msoke could be coming from a machine set up beside the filming studio….
No doubt W.K. will be hanging around The Hilton in London this weekend at the P.C. .nnual event. If I see him in my travels,I’ll pass along all your regards to the “girly man”!
I just had a gander at Warren’s blog, sigh he’s at it again yet more apparent threats of Litigation.
What a asshole that man is, “Defamatory post” my arse it’s documented fact. Honestly threats of litigation on information found in the public domain is assine. Warren go back to law school you are losing it buttercup.
I’ve not a modicum of doubt Warman is guilty of posting that post,his chances of being innocent are so minute it would be a fairy tale to state he’s innocent. Just my opinion based on information I’ve read in the public domain Warren.
Link: http://www.warrenkinsella.com/index.php
Welcome Warren Kinsella readers!
Or should I say… “reader”?
You know, I wouldn’t mind these limp-wristed attempts at misrepresentation, if only he were capable of pushing some significant traffic.
“Wicked Witch” Kathy Shaidle moved over 4 times the readers the great Warm Roomist has so far this month, and I’ll wager 75% of his were click-thrus from Mark Steyn mockery linkaroos .
That’s disappointing, really. I expected better from Canada’s Leading Expert On What David Dingwall Takes In His Coffee.. -ED
*** Original, unedited comment follows ***
While it’s good to see Richard Warman exposed for the totalitarian creep he is, it has taken too long for this process to happen. Somehow I ended up on Paul Fromm’s mailing list and Paul has been going on for years about Warman’s censorious conduct.
I happen to be a firm believer in free speech and thus disagree completely with Jon Kay who believes it is appropriate to prosecute Ernst Zundel and David Ahenakew. The Ernst Zundel prosecution, in particular, has been almost ignored by the Canadian media who are more concerned about the sufferings of a few islamic terrorists imprisoned under post Sept-11 laws but not a word about Zundel who spent several years in solitary before being deported to Germany.
Being curious, I perused the Zundelsite and found nothing offensive. After all, the Turkish government can persistently deny having anything to do with the death of 1.5 million Armenians in WWI and no-one seems to have hauled the Turkish ambassador into a Canadian court for “spreading hate” Re-examination of history is a valid activity and being told that certain areas of history are totally off limits to examination is simply wrong.
What needs to be done, besides eliminating the human rights commissions, is to scrap the hate laws. These laws are so offensive that they have absolutely no palce in a country that considers itself free. IIRC, the “hate laws” were in response to the SCC striking down the “spreading of false news” portion of the criminal code when Zundel was charged with this offense. It seems odd that if it is not considered illegal to spread false news then why the hysteria over Zundel’s pamphlet “Did 6 million really die?”. I think that the existence of “hate laws” has probably done more to spread anti-semitism than any motley groups of neo-Nazi’s in Canada.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki
quote from above
Loki is introduced in the Prose Edda the “contriver of all fraud”.
loki, there’s nothing offensive about the Zundel site except the odious suggestion the holocaust is a lie in the face of the most overwhelming corroborative forensic evidence and witnesses in the history of mass murder. In short, anyone denying the holocaust is an unmitigated lunatic and should be paid all the attention of a cockroach.
As for your suggestion nobody finds the Armenian genocide denial offensive, I suggest you get acquainted with google.
“Satan is reputed to be rather a clever fellow”
In the made for tv movie, the role of Warren Kinsella will be played by Jon Lovitz in a Satan suit, with Judge Wopner presiding.
Perhaps the “hate site” advocate is our old friend Lucy Warman. “Loki the Shapeshifter” may well be setting SDA for a Human Rights charge. Or maybe it is Kinsella, who was so quick to link to the posting.
Raphael, in a free society people are allowed to make fools of themselves. If we criminalized all stupidity we’d need a major jail construction effort. Personally, I find the flat earth society much more offensive than Zundel as the spherical nature of the earth is obvious to anyone who cares to look.
Zundel doesn’t say the holocaust is a lie, he has questions about the number of people that died. There’s a big difference; saying that the holoucast is a lie puts an individual in the flat-earth supporter category whereas questioning the numbers of people that died is legitimate historical research. Can you tell me with complete assurance that the number of Jews killed was exactly 6,000,000 rather than 5,342,171? Of course you can’t. What I find very offensize that to question this number at all is considered to be a criminal offence. I spent a bit of time on Zundelsite a while back and on Ken McVay’s Nizkor site and I just couldn’t get excited about the minutae of interpreting WWII documents. For a historian this might be interesting, but I’m far more interested in science.
I’ve always been curious about why certain subjects are taboo and my theory is that _any_ discussion of national socialism is to be avoided because it demonstrates some very unpleasant truths about the human condition. The myth prevalent in the west is that the Nazi’s were evil murdering scum who were an abberation and now that they have been eliminated there is nothing to be gained from studying them. When one looks closely, one sees that the people who were responsible for building concentration camps, cleaning up occupied areas, etc were very ordinary types. The concentration camp guard went home to his wife and children and dog after work. What the governments don’t want people to know is that the very same thing can happen again as people are slowly taught to hate a group that their political masters don’t like. In 1930’s Germany it was the “useless eaters” that were killed off and perhaps in a few years we’ll see the euthanizing of “useless absorbers of heat” at the alter of Kyotism.
How a society treats people such as Ernst Zundel tells you a lot about how free it is. Zundelsite is up and running and based in the US where it is protected by the 1st ammendment. The way the Canadian government treated Zundel is shamefull regardless of what one thinks of his opinions. We have a long way to go before we can call ourselves a free country.
Loki: Just finished reading your piece and thought it was well reasoned.
Then wandered over to Kinsella only to see that he has plucked a couple of lines to quote you out of context.
Thats Warrens style. What I find amusing is that given whats gone on over the last couple of months re Levant Steyn, Warman, HRCs, Kate making Warren look foolish, etc., is that people who may have read Kinsella and not Levant, SDA Steyn, are probably visiting those sites now.
Anyone who comes across your post and sees what Kinsella did to it, is in for an eye opener. Even though it exposes him for what he is with regards to shameless propagandizing, he can’t seem to help himself. Its like he has no other game.
“What I find amusing is that given whats gone on over the last couple of months re Levant Steyn, Warman, HRCs, Kate making Warren look foolish, etc., is that people who may have read Kinsella and not Levant, SDA Steyn, are probably visiting those sites now.”
Yes but do you think that the average Kinsella fan reading his site, actually read this without bias or thought process? I hope that they do, but in reality I don’t think so.