PC?

Political Animal 62 Comments

Heads up from a reader at the CTV Election blog;

I attended the advanced poll this evening and cast my vote. I expected to see the parties listed in order; Liberal, Conservative,New Democratic Party etc, etc.
I was surprised to see the first party listed as the “Marijuana Party” and then further down the ballot more surprised and a little confused when I saw “PC” followed by “Conservative”. I know my candidates by name and made my selection, however for those that may not, it seems to me that this ballot is designed in a very confusing manner.
I suspect that a good majority of the populace will not know whether to select PC or Conservative if they are casting a vote for Harper. A formal complaint should be filed with election Canada.

62 Replies to “PC?”

  4. Never underextimate the propensity for confusion in the masses .. look where our past elections have gotten us.
    Isn’t a species supposed get smarter as they evolve. Why do the same things happen over and over?
    This is why we are ultimately doomed. We will eventually stupid ourselves out of existence.

  6. I know that in our riding here in Ontario and in other ridings all over, something similar is also transpiring. The campaign manager of our local candidate Kevin Serviss has stated that he has received reports and complaints from advanced voters that the Progressive Canadian Party is billing themselves as “PC”. Now a lot of advanced voters are mistaking them for The Conservatives, the old “PC” Party and not voting for the intended candidate. Stephen Butcher, the Progressive Canadian candidate, lost his former nomination for the Conservative Party and is running under “PC”. Obviously, this is was “Red Tory” What is happening is that this is spliting the vote even further which, of course, favours the Liberals. A complaint was put forward to Elections Canada but nothing was done. I smell a rat here, and with the nest of rats being continually exposed, I wouldn’t in the least be surprised.

  7. I wonder if this was deliberate, or if it was a case of cavalier negligence.
    The potential for confusion should be carefully watched for and, if necessary, rectified immediately.
    Could this be our Florida? Better not be!
    This could be serious. We’ll see.

  8. I guess if the Progressive Canadians get a big percentage of the vote their might be an argument.

  9. Would someone publish a list of the names on these advance polls please. I didn’t see this in BC when I voted. But then I voted for the candidate, not the party. So I may have missed it.

  10. Worse than this was the label I was given while scrutineering on the weekend.
    It was for the “PC” representative and printed by Elections Canada.
    Doh.
    I wondered where Homer went to work after they closed the nuclear plant.

  11. Would it be that difficult to write out the full names of the parties? This is stupidity on the part of Elections Canada. Why abbreveate?

  12. IIRC, candidates are listed on the ballots alphabetically by last name, so any party could theoretically be first on the ballot…

  13. I’d say if you are really worried that some voters might vote PC instead of CPC in a riding where there is both, don’t bother with contacting Elections Canada (which would take weeks just to respond).
    Contact your local CPC riding and tell them that there is a possibility for confusion at the levels of Florida 2000 with people voting for the PC instead of the CPC. The local riding could place flyers up at the return offices indicating who voters should be voting for if they want to vote for the Conservative Party.
    But, I’d do it quick. With the advance polls already over, the damage could already be done.

  14. Cavalier negligence is precisely what Elections Canada should be trying to prevent … *sigh* never mind.

  15. If any of you are working the election, and see any Conservative workers given a “PC” ID tag, take it to the DRO or the SDRO and ensure that it is destroyed… most of the ballot box kits still include ID tags for the “Progressive Conservative” party, and this may only serve to further confuse people.
    Also, if there is a new “PC” candidate in your riding, ask the DRO and poll clerk if they could ensure that this is pointed out to each voter to eliminate confusion. It’s up to the DRO to make that call, but you can suggest it to them. If they say no, ensure you record that information, in case you see a large number of “PC” votes during counting… then a complaint can be launched, but ONLY if we have things documented!!! (I know I’ll be making sure that all my people know that in advance)

  17. Elections Canada is not making anything easy this time around. Very limited Polling Stations, we have to go to town this time where we usualy vote at Hall down road. In fairness this could be due to weather/access concerns. In our case though it is at a school in a res. area, school is in that day, very little parking etc. As a parent I have a BIG problem with inviting strangers into my kid’s school.
    Re: Website to find Candidates. When I got my card thought there was an error on poll location so ATTEMPTED to look up Candidate, by postal code, did not like my rural address. Looked for candidate by province. What a mess! Nothing organized/sorted alphabetically, by party or by riding. Very helter Skelter. One riding/cand. at top, one part way down page, two more at bottom. You get the idea. That was just for Alberta, pages for Ontario even worse.
    I was really tempted to vote advance in case of bad weather but after seeing how they run this, I won’t take any chances with my vote being misplaced between now and the 23rd.

  18. For anyone my link didn’t work for, here are the full names followed by the �short forms� of all the parties you could find on your ballots, as listed on Elections Canada�s site
    Bloc Qu�b�cois, Bloc Qu�b�cois
    Canadian Action Party, Canadian Action
    Christian Heritage Party of Canada, Christian Heritage Party
    Communist Party of Canada, Communist
    Conservative Party of Canada, Conservative
    Green Party of Canada, Green Party
    Liberal Party of Canada, Liberal
    Libertarian Party of Canada, Libertarian
    Marijuana Party, Marijuana
    Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada, Marxist-Leninist
    New Democratic Party, N.D.P.
    Progressive Canadian Party, PC
    Western Block Party, WBP
    First Peoples National Party of Canada, FPNP
    PC (Progressive Canadian Party) seems to only have candidates in 25 ridings this go time, but it will be interesting to see if their party capitalizes on having such a close name.

  19. Christian Conservative; you may be the one to ask?… In past elections; are choices listed alphabetically by last name of candidate? Or, alphabetically by name of party? I have a good memory but it’s short.

  21. My wife commented on it after we voted. I knew the name of the local CPC candidate, and that’s what I looked for when marking an “x,” not the party’s name. I completely missed it.
    Still, I can see it causing confusion, as it momentarily did for my wife.

  22. There’s a PC (Progressive Canadian Party) candidate in my riding (Ottawa-Vanier). Their web site calls it “your progressive-conservative party / votre parti progressiste-conservateur”. Definitely confusing. Intentionally so?

  23. I just checked and my riding is one of the unlucky ones to have one of the Progressive Canadian Party candidates running (Mississauga-Streetsville). I like the fact that all these fringe parties get to participate in our democratic process, but when their names can confuse the electorate then I think that measures should be taken for people to understand who they are voting for. I am all for the democratic process, but in a close election the almost 1300 votes they had last time around in my riding adds up pretty quickly! I know it was mostly due to the confusion of the names. I still remember last election when the PC Party guy came to my door and my brother was talking to him telling him we were voting for him … blah, blah and then we find out he wasn’t our real candidate!

  24. Much fuss about nothing folks, the people that might vote PC would think its the old party, thus resulting in wasted votes that would have probably gone Lie-beral. Joe who? With the ammount of television coverage most people realize that the C is for Conservative.

  25. First, we had the story about the polls being moved out of the U of Toronto residences at the behest of the ‘Fat’ Tony Ianno Librano campaign. Now we have our own version of hanging chads.
    I have a sinking feeling that the Libranos have the fix in. Is it too late to request some UN monitors for the election?

  26. One of the 23 ridings where the PCP can have the biggest impact is Newmarket-Aurora, where CPC’s Lois Brown is running against Belinda Stronach.
    the PCP is running the Rev. Dorian Baxter, a Toronto area “bishop” whose schtick is to preach while impersonating Elvis. Yikes. He could keep a good Conservative from slapping Belinda around (electorally speaking, of course)

  27. This is a party that claims to be right-of-center yet isn’t fielding one candidate in Alberta. In fact, they seem to be in areas where Conservatives could threaten the Liberals (Southern Ontario, Greater Vancouver, and Quebec.) Somethings definately smelly here.

  28. I have just contacted Elections Canada. The person on the phone told me that she just saw something regarding this on the news. She gave me an address to write to. I said that this wasn’t good enough. I told her that this needed to be rectiifed NOW, because the advanced polls had already likely been tainted and we don’t need the same to happen on Election Day. I stated that I wanted a phone number to call because by the time everything was said and done, it would be too late and the damage would be done. She said there was no number so I asked to speak to her superior. When he came on he told me that he has received numerous complaint calls regarding this. He stated that this was “cleared by the top” (whatever that means) He gave me an address and fax number:
    Office Of The Chief Electoral Officer
    Elections Canada
    257 Slater Street
    Ottawa, Ontario
    K1A 0M6
    FAX 1-888-524-1444
    We have to put a stop to this before its too late.

  29. !
    I voted in the advance poll. The candidates were listed in alphabetical order by surname. Is this really so difficult? I just can’t believe people would go and vote without even knowing the name of the candidate they want to vote for. Please tell me this isn’t an issue.

  30. The PC/CPC confusion is nothing new . . . it’s bound to confuse some people, and there’s little that can be done — legally — to avoid that risk. In one Ontario election, a Liberal candidate was struck from the ballot, and the Libertarian candidate garnered a huge increase in votes (not enough to win, obviously), but the following election, the numbers in that riding went back to “normal”.
    Remember that there are restrictions (for good reasons) on anything that might be construed as partisan being displayed in or near a polling station. Party affiliate buttons, for example, must be removed before entering a polling station. Trying to indicate that the “PC” candidate isn’t a Conservative would almost certainly be deemed to be a partisan act, unless the DRO agreed to allow it (and the DRO might be in hot water for allowing it).

  31. Its not an issue for you or I because we on this blog, for the most part, are informed voters. However, for seniors, mentally handicapped people, and generally less informed people this could very well be an issue. Thus it is an issue for US, because it could very easily turn the tide in close ridings. If so, the results could already be tainted. This needs to be stopped before Election Day.

  32. Where’s maz2 with another 17 paragraph conspiracy theory? Next thing is he’ll be blaming the Liberals for naming the cons with the same letters as the Communist Party of Canada.
    Too funny Conservative Party of Canada, well anyways it’s a party.
    Not even elected and I’m starting to hear the wheels falling off the potatoe truck?

  33. Naw, Ron. We shouldn’t have anything to worry about. The CPC is leading the LPC across the whole country; whereas the Liberal government is the most scandal plagued government in Canadian history . The Liberals are falling daily in the polls and Martin is reeling from one gaffe to the next. Even so, this thing with the “PC” party is bad and if does have an affect on the outcome, its wrong in so many words. It stinks and it needs to be stopped. If the same thing were happening to the Liberals, I would be as equally outraged. Some things just shouldn’t be partisan politcs and the electoral process is not one of them.

  34. In my opinion there are problems with Election Canada in Winnipeg. Liberal A polls are conveniently located. Conservative polls have been put at undesirable locations, in fact one polling location was closed and people will be forced to go across town (great distance) to vote at a merged poll that will have huge line-ups.
    When I asked Elections Canada (returning officer) for an explanation, they basically told me they were ENTITLED to do what they want.
    The returning officer is a known liberal…

  35. “Bloc Qu�b�cois, Bloc Qu�b�cois
    Canadian Action Party, Canadian Action
    Christian Heritage Party of Canada, Christian Heritage Party
    Communist Party of Canada, Communist
    Conservative Party of Canada, Conservative
    Green Party of Canada, Green Party
    Liberal Party of Canada, Liberal
    Libertarian Party of Canada, Libertarian
    Marijuana Party, Marijuana
    Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada, Marxist-Leninist
    New Democratic Party, N.D.P.
    Progressive Canadian Party, PC
    Western Block Party, WBP
    First Peoples National Party of Canada, FPNP”
    Many of these names weren’t on the ballot in my riding in Burnaby-Douglas. In fact there were only 6 or 7 if I remember correctly. I called the CPC office and they knew nothing of it but said they would “look into it immediately”.
    I think this is caused by the antiquated methods that Elections Canada uses. When I voted I had to see three people, the first to cross my name off a list, the second to write, by hand, my full name and address on another list, and a third to hand me my ballot. Could not believe it, in this day and age. Another indication that Canada really is a third world country.

  36. They are trying to capitilise on our candidates hard work.
    I feel they are using slight of hand to missrepresent who they are. I suppose then
    it is only appropriate that the local ‘PC’ for
    Newmarket/Aurora is also know as the local ELVIS impersonator / priest. Honest, he has his ‘own church’ ??
    gentlemen… I believe he is defrauding the tax payers and voters alike..
    His campaign site was http://www.dorianbaxter.ca
    It has now been automatically redirected.
    Note: his campaign address is the same as the donation link for http://www.bloc-harper.com
    where theres smoke theres fire….
    see if you can find out what else I have…
    pg

  38. I agree with Dennis, 2:03. There will be enough people confused, especially the elderly, to possibly tip the balance in close ridings.
    The best hope for this to not have an effect on the election is for the national media to make enough of an issue about it that people start talking.
    I smell a rat.

  39. Well said Dennis LeDrew. The lesson to ALL Parties is; hammer home on the phone, at the door and in print; KNOW the correct spelling of your chosen candidate!

  41. Candidates names are listed on the ballot, AS ALWAYS in alphabetical order. The name of each is followed by the official party name. The problem is that, in Ontario, the remnants of the old PC party is running candidates. Complain to them, not to Elections Canada.

  42. The http://www.bloc-harper.com is advertising all over the
    web.. via google adds
    This is THIRD PARTY Advertising
    And if they are not registered it is ILLEGAL.
    Secondly he will probably keep the money..
    As well as the 1.75 per vote.

  43. What’s the uproar about, Elections Canada is run by the Liberal Party, so expect stuff like this. They’re trying to split the PC, CPC, err CPCPC vote…
    Oh dang, now I’m confused.

  44. I wonder why the Communist Party and the Marxist-Leninist Party can’t get together to end the vote-splitting in the grooming-challenged community. It seems such a shame.

  45. Last election we had a PC candidate (McLellan’s riding) and he got 456 votes with 234 spoiled votes, total 690 (Anne won by 721 votes). There wasn’t one this time (I checked the day candidates had to file). I wonder how much confusion there was?

  46. In response to Lang’s comment:
    “There’s a PC (Progressive Canadian Party) candidate in my riding (Ottawa-Vanier). Their web site calls it “your progressive-conservative party / votre parti progressiste-conservateur”. Definitely confusing. Intentionally so?”
    If you actually go further to read the party’s history, you’ll find that they take the former Progressive Conservative Party’s history as their own, touting Sir John A. MacDonald as their first leader in 1864, forming the first government of Canada, and claiming all the successes of the former PC Party.
    Nowhere in their “history” does it state that the party was first registered with Elections Canada on March 9, 2004 (http://www.elections.ca/content.asp?section=pol&document=index&dir=par&lang=e&textonly=false#pcp) after a minority of former PC members opposed the dissolution of the Progressive Conservative Party in order to merge with the Canadian Alliance to create the present CPC. Nor does it mention that the party of Sir John A. no longer exists (dissolved December 7, 2003), the majority wishing to merge into the CPC.
    Although I could argue that this gives the CPC more of a right to claim the history of the PC party, it’s refreshing that they don’t, the party history starting with “On October 15, 2003…”, etc.
    Confusing? Misleading is a better term.

  48. “In the early 19th century, Canada’s political system was in much need of reform. The British Colonies of Upper and Lower Canada were dominated by closely knit elites. Satisfied with their positions of privilege and supported by the British governors, these elites paid little attention to the elected assemblies in the colonies.”
    Baldwin and LaFontaine, Where are our Baldwin’s and LaFontaine’s today when we need their kind again.

  49. This problem isn’t new. We had one of Sinclair Stevens’ Progressive Canadian zombies running in our riding in 2004. He got 820 votes out of almost 62,000 cast. Some of those votes are undoubtedly legitimate support, and some are undoubtedly a case of mistaken identity. But if they’re only pulling 1% of the vote, not only can’t you parse which vote was intended and which was a result of a misleading name, it’s not worth it to try.
    Every time we get our knickers in a knot over this, these guys just get more undeserved publicity. I say ignore them, and watch them fade away to nothing.

  50. Yes Damian
    BUT Belinda Only won by 680 votes as a CPC.
    We almost lost by his votes…
    Not only that but Elvis is backed by Sinclair/Magna
    Ken

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