In the past 24 hours I’ve heard back from longtime personal friends from across Canada after email them Heather Heying’s recent editorial. Here’s an abridged version of the responses I received:
- An 80-something gentleman in Vancouver: “How can a protest be peaceful if it’s hurting the economy?”
- A 60-something grandmother in Calgary: “Please stop sending me anything more about the Freedom Protests.”
- A mid-50’s fellow in Sudbury: “I fear we’re on the opposite side of this issue. We’ll have to agree to disagree.”
- A late-50’s fellow in Toronto: “This has turned into a s***-show due to a weak government. Call in the military!”
To #3 I responded thusly:
I’ve always been in support of people peacefully protesting. Even if I was quadruple vaxxed, I would never, ever support coercing others to put something in their body that they didn’t want to. I would also never “Other” someone out of normal society for not agreeing with me.
You’re on the opposite side of these basic principles?
I truly am shocked that these people I know are taking the stances that they are mais c’est la vie. So do help me, dear readers: Imagine you’re part of a high-school debating club and you’re tasked with arguing on the side of Trudeau and against the truckers. What would your best arguments be?
It is called sophistry:
The Sophists taught courses that might have been labelled with such current phrasings as:
· How to win no matter how bad your case is.
· How to win friends and influence people
· How to succeed in business without really trying
· How to fall into a pigsty and come out smelling like a rose.
· How to succeed in life.
· How to play to win
About a year ago, Trudeau stated that Canada was not the type of country that would force vaccines on people. This has been my outlook the whole time. (Unlike Justin who apparently cynically changed his messaging because of the election.) I and my family have all been vaccinated. Most of the country has been as well. My opinion has always been that it’s not realistic to expect, in a free and open society, that the place would ever reach a 100% vaccination rate. Any thinking along these lines is childlike and utopian as far as I’m concerned. The question becomes: What happens to the dissenting group? A culture can always be judged through the lens of how it deals with dissenting groups of people. I think we’ve seen the results of where we’re at.
Vaccine efficacy of commonly taken vaccines:
Rubella – 99%
Polio (with all 4 courses) – 100%
Tuberculosis – 97%
Measles – 99%
Tetanus – 70 to 80% (which is why we take boosters)
Coronavirus against the Omicron variant – 52%
Are you sure you want to force people to take that? Because I guarantee that seniors will be the next in line to forced to take something, probably “for the good of our health system”.
I need to take a shot for sniffles is not a ringing endorsement.
Omicron is Moronic.
You’re referring to that thing they call the MAiD? Right to die? Oh no, obligation to die.
One comment to all
“History will judge.
Pick your side,
I pick the side of freedom, you?”
From my experience and as mentioned earlier, you cannot argue with people to change their mind in front of you so don’t try. So instead of arguing, try to get them to think for themselves. If there is any hope, they will go off and think about what you have told them, and maybe (just maybe) they will change their mind.
For example, don’t argue the policy. Argue the conflicting premise behind the policy with YES/NO questions.
1. Do you believe in bodily autonomy ? What if your government/doctor forced everyone to lick cherry flavored popsicles but didn’t tell you there was a poison in it, but you because you were told you had to or there would be consequences ?
2. What is your definition of coercion ?
2. Is the government/doctor always right ? Do they always know what’s best for YOU ? Is it wrong to question the government or your doctor ? Is it wrong to get a second opinion ?
3. Do you believe in ‘law in order’ or ‘mob rule’ ? Why ?
4. Do you believe in the motto ‘If you see something, say something’ ?
5. Do you think you have an open mind ? YES/NO
I was a radical left-wing activist in the late 1960s and very early 1970s, before seeing the light. So I must get one of the few SDAers who actually, before the Freedom Convoys, undertook civil disobedience. I was arrested three times, jailed for short times twice, and fingerprinted five times.
Swinging to becoming a conservative — and an activist conservative by the mid-1980s — one thing I noticed was the poor organization, negligible finances and the complete absence of street demonstrations by conservatives. Street demonstrations simply were not done.
It is telling that the Freedom Convoys were started by completely unknown conservatives, outside the loop of what conservative organizations that do exist. And these people, on top of street demos, actually have the nerve and gumption to undertake civil disobedience. The result has been path breaking. The conservative voice has become visible to average Canadians. It is true that the truckers have been helped by the new conservative media (and smeared by the establishment left institutions). But the Convoy movement has been so, so good for conservatism in Canada.
Conservatives should continue with street demos and civil disobedience. They should continue to build and fund advocacy groups, and expand the new media. We should speak up for the working class and families. This is the first time in Canada that real small-c conservatives have the left-establishment rattled. We must not go back to the old, staid ways of doing politics. The Freedom Convoys have shown conservatives what true leadership is like.
Just having my morning coffee I don’t have the focus to attempt penning long screeds.
Perhaps I’ll just stick with Dan Bongino’s line: “You do you, and I’ll do me.”
I support the Freedom Convoy participants’ right to accept or refuse vaccines, and to peacefully protest accordingly.
When the time comes, I trust you all will support others’ right to protest for legal access to abortion, erect anti-oil pipeline blockades, etc.
You know, for consistency. Because only the Left are hypocrites, right?
You forget, we have been putting up with those pro death and eco terrorists for decades, we have been told they have the right to do whatever they please, or we are racist, sexist, hopeless, dickless etc. 62 churches burned this summer because of “soil disturbances ” and possibly graves were found in graveyards, what a shocker! No charges, no emergency powers act, nope just money, by the billions.
“…we have been putting up with those pro death and eco terrorists for decades, we have been told they have the right to do whatever they please…”
Which you agree with, correct — that they do have that right? Just as Freedom Convoy protesters have the right to do whatever they please, up to and including parking their rigs illegally at major border crossings, or blaring their horns all night within earshot of residential apartments in Ottawa, or showing up outside an Okanagan, BC, high school and yelling “I have a right to be in the country, do you?” at South Asian students?
Find me a person who doesn’t make exceptions and you’ll have found a very exceptional person.
If hypocrisy wasn’t an existential characteristic of the Left, you might be making a valid point.
“When the time comes, I trust you all will support others’ right to protest for legal access to abortion, erect anti-oil pipeline blockades, etc. “
You bet. You get offa your ass and out from behind that laptop & come support no seatbelts, no motorcycle helmets, small, limited power gov’t, eliminating MotherCorpse, Western separation and, and concealed carry, I’ll support your anti-pipeline protest. I’m all over shutting down pipelines. Especially the ones going to BC & central Canada. Turn ’em off & tear ’em up for scrap.
Gaslighting is your only angle?
Only one side of this debate used censorship to defend their position, only one side interfered with the sacred relationship between a Dr and a patient, only one side suggested children could get a health procedure without parental knowledge or consent. The combination of these actions have made voluntary informed consent impossible. I will never be on that side, I would rather be associated with a deadly virus than monstrous humans.
Devil’s Advocate… I have played that role many times here at SDA in the past, ha, usually resulting in insults and other low-brow responses for my efforts. Throw out some counter-ideas to encourage debate, and that will usually earn you at least one accusation that you are a liberal troll. Seriously, even gently countering the narratives here at SDA can get you just as much abuse and insults as challenging any leftard. Anyways, I have often endured this in the past to counter the “leftist-style” groupthink that occasionally raises it’s ugly head, here. You’re welcome. 🙂
So, all that said, why would we then expect any leftard to sit quietly by as ‘some conservative’ tries to absolutely dismantle their world? And, most importantly, we wouldn’t even have to argue with the type of people Robert listed if not for our totally corrupted media. These Canadians need deprogramming, not to hear a new list of facts that they could never mesh with their warped reality anyways.
BTW, I was in the debating club in high school , and with some prep I could argue circles around many here while attacking the truckers. Effective debating, much like politics, is not as much about manipulating facts as it is about manipulating emotion. However, with all the prep in the world, I couldn’t even begin to figure an angle to defend Trudeau’s tyrannical actions. I actually question his mental health.
It’s like someone told Justin that his dad was Canada’s most hated, arrogant and tyrannical Prime Minister, and his only response was… “Here, hold my beer.”
More like: “Here, hold my Domaine Leroy Musigny Grand Cru” ($50,000 per bottle)
Robert:
It’s clear from the responses that about 80% of the responders either did not read or did not understand your request.
Notwithstanding that, some of the responses are a well-argued response to a contrary question.
Sorry, I was one of those who didn’t follow Kate’s directions. But the thread still is an enjoyable read.
Robert’s directions :). Agreed on your second sentence.
Heather Heying has made the following point. We don’t want to be absolutist about the jab. In the future, a far more lethal and highly contagious disease might emerge that could justify extreme measures by the government, but it’s not this virus, it’s not this vaccine, and not this government. Obviously, if that happened, most people would comply voluntarily.
In the early months of the pandemic, the measures may have been defensible. As data and knowledge accumulate, it’s glaringly obvious that the government response was botched and reckless. Is this the hill they want to die on? The media, government, and enablers have undermined their own credibility and broken faith with their public. Are they aware of the “crying wolf” effect? Who’s going to believe them next time?
Obviously, if that happened, most people would comply voluntarily.
Excellent point. If half the people were dropping dead in the streets, people would be fighting to get to the front of the line.
I would start with Canada is no longer a free country.
Emergencies Act orders are now emerging. A wider net is being cast than people were expecting (shock!). The banking industry has some big concerns. Who is responsible if the bank freezes accounts of those donating to the trucker protest? What happens if they freeze the account which you use to pay your mortgage, for example? Can your money be cut off for suspicion? Is there any recourse (currently, no)? Is the bank responsible if it freezes the wrong account? Is the government responsible? An emerging shit-show. Is the onus on the bank to find (or at least know) who is giving money to the truckers? What if the bank declines to freeze your account? Can the bank rely on a list of names provided by an anonymous hacker? If not, how will the bank know whose account to freeze?
I’d risk failure or expulsion from debate club before I ever defended the socialist and/or fascist policies of any Liberal.
Do they even have debate clubs in high schools, anymore? In the public system, it is quite obvious that they don’t want to create critical thinkers, debating would counter that agenda.
There are no more non-political topics, and what kid is going to volunteer to argue against any cancel-culture icon? To enthusiastically “win” any debate countering The Narrative could be social suicide.
BTW, arguing against your own beliefs is one of the best learning experiences you could ask for.
Such as arguing to get special import status for certain drug den paraphernalia.
I felt very dirty after achieving that.
For me it’s not just a question of whose version to believe, but more a question of do we really want to live like this? I hate wearing the mask which means I try to avoid situations where it will be required. I can’t imagine how awful it must be to be forced to wear one for a full work shift. And all to accomplish what exactly? They probably do at least as much harm as good.
There was always a different way through this as seen in other jurisdictions, the results might not have been wonderful or perfect but at least those people did not lose their basic freedoms and (in some cases) their right to conduct their business and earn a living.
Our political elites have stubbornly plodded along this donkey trail of ineffective mandates and called it a heroic response. I’m sorry but an outbreak of mass hysteria bordering on insanity is not my idea of a heroic response. And the other shoe has not dropped yet, quite literally God only knows what the future holds in terms of delayed reactions to the injections. I keep thinking that this will come to resemble the thalidomide fiasco of the 1960s.
Robert, you cannot initiate argument with people who are generally “asleep”. In a literal sense, everybody resents being woken up from a nice dream. Even you, even me. You should not be *initiating* argument with them, as they are asleep and will believe whatever is most comfortable. I would instead suggest memes. Instead of emailing a friend with a nice logical post (fully rational), just drop a meme bomb. That is all you can do.
Once reality wakes em up, thats when you can start arguing. Maybe they will contact you, and ask your opinion. Maybe you will send em a message asking “how can I help these truckers?” Maintain the position of righteousness, and yet be open minded. In a sense ask “why would I ever disagree with the truckers???!?!?”. Let them do the explaining. I do believe this is a better way to start conversation than dropping nicely explained pieces in their mailbox. And keep dropping the memes. A picture is worth a thousand words, and a meme is worth a hundred well reasoned discussions. I dont know why that is.
Once the conversation starts, at their behest, then there are really two areas of discussion where this goes. Hinted at in your points 1-4.
A) Why should people be affected by demonstrations? How is that right? Point out that many Canadian have been affected by govt policy for two years. And while It isn’t right to be affected by demonstrations, it is “less right” to have your livelihood destroyed by mandates.
B) How can a small group of people overturn what the government has decided? What gives them the right to “dictate” policy? There have been many small groups that pushed the government to implement policy. Ghandi. MLK. Polish Solidarity movement. Etc. It has less to do with the size of the group, and more to do with what they want to change. Focus on the goals, not the people, or size of the crowd.
Not everyone wakes up, but it is important that when\if they do … they make the mental effort. You cannot do it for em. I hate using the term asleep, as it implies “woke” as a solution. But you get the idea.
And dont despair that 75% of the population isnt interested, or are asleep. that is actually ok. As Margaret Meade said, you just need a small, committed group of people to change the world. And that is exactly what the truck drivers are doing.
And always keep the memes flowing.
What can I say, I’m the bastard son of a communist leader and part-time hooker and find myself in a position of power but too weak to use it wisely. I have the mental acumen of a fourteen year old that finds me dressed in costumes and make-up when I shouldn’t be. I never liked truckers, they aren’t easily pushed around and make me scared I may get my ass beat by one. I’d go on but to what purpose, take them out!
I, apparently like many of your respondents, seem to have difficulty putting ourselves in JTs shoes to argue his side. To me the depth of his hypocrisy is unfathomable.
He is driven by his own ideology and will never see himself for who he really is.
My greater concern is the compliance of the parliament in general to his over reach. The opposition parties, other than the ndp, have been silent on the emergency measures act. Not a word from the CPC. Our parliament has abdicated all power to one man, effectively making us a dictatorship.
I think that Canada and much of the world have been taken over by an evil force. Many Canadians are too frightened to admit this. I expect something very similar happened in Nazi Germany. If you continue to deny what is happening — in this case, the abusive and oppressive measures of a government clearly violating our human and civil rights– maybe it will all go away. I am not convinced that normal legal measures will get us out of this. People want to go back to their normal lives and it ain’t going to happen without significant pressure on the government. I am disgusted by the Liberals who are supporting their government’s tyranny.
#1. – The 96-year-old man fought in World War II. So his father fought for his descendants to show their papers, be a part of illegal science experiments, and to follow orders?
This is all part of the Nürnberg code that forbids these things.
If I live 2000 miles away from him, why should I inject my child with something that’s giving heart issues to the young for the rest of their lives?
Why should my child be sacrificed for his 96-year-old father?
That shot could end a child’s life before they’re 20. Does he even know children in the states are dropping dead from heart issues?
His “community” is selfishness as well.
I believe that the left is truly dumbfounded that after all their attempts to rise up the working class against the conservative movement, the opposite is happening. The working class, being forced to not work, being forced to jump thru an arrangement of hoops for 2 years to work, then forced to accept a medical treatment, not based on the treatment, but because if you don’t you can’t keep you job, have risen up against the left governments forcing this upon them.
They know taking away someone’s job because of a medical treatment is an argument they can’t win.
1. All women working for a company have to be on birth control so the company doesn’t loose economically because of the leave time.
2. All mental illnesses have to be reported and those employees’ don’t get sick time because their absence due to that illness costs the company economically.
3. All elected politicians have to have embedded microphones and cameras on their bodies so that everything that comes out of their mouths, every document they see is recorded and documented.
They are scared because if the “Normal people” rise up against them, they can’t continue and the pendulum swing will be so great, it may destroy the leftist movement. So much so, they are abandoning the “working class” as their parties core constituent. Because of that to get them to comply, force has to be applied.
While these comments won’t work well as debate arguments, they may help us to understand why people are behaving as they are which is useful in its own right. Vaclav Havel lived under communist rule in Czechoslovakia and wrote The Power of the Powerless in 1978. The following quotes are from chapter 6:
In response to why a grocer would place a sign in the window sent out by the communist party, “It tells them what everyone else is doing, and indicates to them what they must do as well, if they don’t want to be excluded, to fall into isolation, alienate themselves from society, break the rules of the game, and risk the loss of their peace and tranquility and security.”
“They conform to a particular requirement and in so doing they themselves perpetuate that requirement.”
“In the post-totalitarian system, this line runs de facto through each person, for everyone in his or her own way is both a victim and a supporter of the system.”
“There is obviously something in human beings which responds to this system, something they reflect and accommodate, something within them which paralyses every effort of their better selves to revolt.”
Our challenge is not simply to debate ideas but to live the truth in such a way that we necessarily threaten the lies of the system we live under. The courage required to do this is extraordinary but the more people begin to live this way, the more the power structures crumble. Living truthfully is the most genuinely subversive act possible.
If the means test for peace is whether an act is economically damaging then surely the current government is a clear and present danger as it has:
-requested parliamentary oversight of government spending be waived
-repeatedly stated they intend to shut down the oil and gas sector which certainly gas repercussions exceeding the streets surrounding parliament hill.
-has effectively restricted the economy of the country for two years under the guise of safety
-has denied parliament orders to submit details under which two Chinese nationals where removed from a secure lab. These individuals who where closely tied to the lab in Wuhan from whence the corona virus originated
Clearly anyone that is protesting against these shenanigans has is doing so to protect the national interests. But if this is a true means test then the PM should be forcibly incarcerated for treason.
For number 2, she sounds like her cognitive dissonance is about to break or she’s going to start foaming at the mouth. She no doubt doesn’t want to hear a lot of inconvenient things. I can guess what her reaction was in 2016. She is a lost cause until she experiences the downside of the sock monkeys actions.
Ditto for 3, he sounds like a liberal voter that is starting to think he won’t have anyone to vote for next election. He’s not feeling empowered to support dear leader, he’s decided to keep his head down until it blows over and everyone forgets. If you talk to him again and he starts to defend the sock monkey, ask him the question “didn’t you see the blackface?”
As to number 4.
He’s definitely feeling extremely frustrated, per the previous allusion about liberals starting to feel like conservative voters with no ballot choices. They want this to just go away.
So the best response is to wait a day and remind them all that even after the emergency act was invoked the protesters are still there and the issue persists, so what is your white knight doing about it now?
Their cognitive dissonance is violated with every passing day that he doesn’t act.
FYI the emergency act won’t do squat as it won’t stop other forms of protest happening.
Juthtin:
“If you live in a modern thothiety you muth looth thumb personal fweedomth for that privilege. My neighbour can’t thwow hith garbage in the threet nor can he play hith muthic all night long. Thith ith Canada, we don’t value individual rightth and fweedomth like we value group rightth that guarantee we are a diverth thothiety. Divethtity ith our thrength.”
Buddy;
“Right-wing extremists hate diversity. They hate rules like speed limits and seatbelt laws that save lives and reduce insurance costs. They can’t stand anyone telling them what to do even if it keeps everyone safe. Don’t dare tell them what to eat or not eat even if it helps them live longer. But they are also afraid, yes afraid of math and science that is never political and cannot be debated with. That scares them. Yet they are also enthralled by the cult of personality as evidenced by their support of Trump & Bernier who want, ironically, nothing but power over people.”
(Jesus wept that was exhausting!)
“Left-wingers hate diversity of philosophical thought. They hate rules like limits on sexual morality and other laws that save lives
for eternity and eliminate the need for hell-fire insurance costs. They can’t stand anyone challenging them when they try to tell everyone what to do even if it keeps everyone thinking clearly. Don’t dare tell them what to think or not think even if it helps them live longer. But they are also afraid (as demonstrated by their preference for censorship), yes very afraid of being shown that their misuse of math and science is clearly politicized and can be easily refuted. That scares them. Yet they are also enthralled by the cult of personality as evidenced by their support of Obama & Biden & Trudeau who want, not ironically at all, nothing but power over people.”
Devil’s Advocate…In soft breathy speak..
“Ongoing civil unrest by conservatives simply cannot be tolerated. Clearly it has been effective in that the media, despite it’s best efforts has been unable to tamp down the message. This is a very dangerous situation having unregulated people running about waving racists Canadian flags and playing street hockey while honking horns constantly. Furthermore we in the government have a very serious issue in that we don’t personally know the organizers of this protest, we cannot sit down with them and haggle out an agreed upon stand down strategy as they’re not in the same circles we move in, they’re not at our golf club, we didn’t go to school with any of them, I mean, really who are these people and who do they think they are? Normally we’d be in a position to send word down the line that its time to back off and let us get back to normal. We’ve also never encountered this issue of conservatives organically organizing themselves without leadership from Ottawa and this presents a huge problem because they are seemingly immune to being dealt with in the usual way which is to say, normally we can just call a conservative racist, homophobic, transphobic, Nazi’s, confederates or our best zinger which is to call them Trump supporters. On any given Tuesday you call a Conservative MP racists and they’ll shut up pretty quickly and then we can get on with life. But in an environment where we can slander protesters and they simply ignore us? Well, that really is the biggest problem yet. A populace that does not understand that we in Ottawa set the moral and ethical temperature for the country is completely out of control. As we’ve stated in our previous slanders, these people are below the level of contempt and accordingly it’s our duty to restrict their rights, their finances, their general liberty. This whole situation has left enough egg on our faces that we’re going to have to keep this “two weeks” of emergency rule going for some time and use it as a means to ferret out any potential adversaries down the line. We’ll have to make sure we cripple their capacity to self organize in the future lest we be called to account again in the future. I want to remind everyone that this is about them and what THEY did. It’s about a bunch of trouble makers who think they have the right to tell us what not to do, who think they know better than us and it’s our job as the government to stop that so for everyone’s safety we have to eliminate theirs. We have to ensure they have no capacity to act individually in the future, we have to ensure that they cannot organize themselves to so forcefully criticize the actions of this government and all levels of government in the future. I mean really, that’s what the press is supposed to be for after all. We pay them hundreds of millions of dollars a year to “hold us to account” right? It’s a big investment we make to ensure that Canadians hear the correct opinions about our policies and our choices and we cannot have any rag tag band of racists meddling with that can we?”
Ask them if they know what informed consent means.
Then ask them if governments should ignore it.
Then ask them why God gave man free will.
If they answer incorrectly laugh in their faces then terminate any future contact.
These are not friends.
If someone is still bought into the ‘pandemic’ they won’t buy into the truckers movement. That video ‘it’s just a protest’ sums it up neatly. Two years of conditioning going so far as to be injected multiple times all on the trust of government officials and the media. It’s safe and effective they said. Stay locked up for your own good and watch CBC. Unvaccinated are evil. Everyday a case count update from the media. Always keeping an undercurrent of fear moving through their minds.
I’d say #2 doesn’t need Freedom Convoy info. She needs pandemic is over info. And also to consider the government and media weren’t exactly operating for our ‘greater good’ but for their own interests.
When authority forbid the citizen freedom of speech,they are rejecting the soft,moderate means of resolving differences.
One our forefathers learned the hard way.
Hence Freedom of speech laws.
Jaw,jaw ,jaw is preferable to war war war.
So Emperor Justine does not wish to talk?
But he wants to steal,slander and imprison.
Canadians will see,within 7 days the rest of our elected and appointed parasites must make their choice known.
This is the moment.
Individual Rights,freedoms and if the Canadian Charter of Rights is a real thing..
Or rule via State Thuggery.
Complete with legislated censorship of any dissent.
So Dear Leader says “No Jaw ,jaw ,jaw”.
What a surprise.
As he has never spoken a coherent sentence.
Most of us here could see we were devolving toward physical communication.
Idiocy such as Political Correctness,Hate Crime Commissions,State censorship laws and Media minutes of hate for all who called for sanity.
For there is no safe ,no safe place,no peace of mind for a hysterical nitwit.
Every “possibility” terrifies them.
Every crime they commit,increases their desperation to hold onto POWER.
There is no way to reason with a person in hysterics.
First you have to bring them back to reality.
Usually via a short sharp shot of PAIN.
If Liberals had any sense,ethical standards or decency..I know ,I know they are Liberals..
Having admitted that they cannot govern constitutionally,but must invoke extra ordinary and abusive measure..
Resignations would be in order.
When you fail this completely,you quit and get out of the way,so adults can clean up your trainwreck..
Even those supporters who did not see this idiocy coming are guilty of contributing to its creation.
As stated the other day.
Using Justine’s EmergencyMeasures Logic..All Liberal and NDP voters are guilty..
Shall these same abuses be used upon them?
When we deal with our national bankruptcy?
The crushing debt,they brought us?
the national decay they have created?
Hmm I am warming to the Naked Emperors ideas..
Let us engage in tit for tat until we bathe in each other blood.
Which is how history has played out so far.
But we will be told,the Democratic Republic Of Can Ahh Duh,will do communism right,for the first time in history.
Human Nature will be tamed and put to the service of the Great Party,err the collective.
The mandates have hurt the economy for two years.
People have lost their jobs because the government doesn’t agree with ‘freedom of choice’ regarding personal medical treatments. Imagine if employers fired people who have had abortions.
One of John Batchelor’s guests yesterday tears a strip off Prinz Dummkopf:
https://audioboom.com/posts/8032278-canada-ottawa-police-chief-resigns-what-is-to-be-done-gregory-copley-defense-foreign-af.mp3
It’s worth listening to as he’s right on target about HRH.
I don’t believe for 1 second that any of them read the article.
If they did and still not see the light. Then there is NO help for them.
Cut them loose. You don’t need that type of negativity in your life!!!
Find common ground with your friends and stay on it.
There are levels of friendship. The highest is often due to a bond established at a very young age and no variance of views will break the bond. But most friendships are fairly shallow and were most likely formed in more recent times and via some kind of special interest.
One very liberal friend from my teens with whom I played in a band ended up at the CBC and retired about 20 years ago. As might be expected, he’s super liberal and is all-in on Covid. I’m a leper. In one email I asked rhetorically “but surely you agree that not allowing people to dine at a restaurant or fly on a plane is wrong?”. I didn’t get a answer. My initial reaction was that no friend could want me to be in this situation, but I demurred. It doesn’t matter. I told myself that he would like an exemption granted for me.
These are my thoughts in response to question no. 1:
The Trucker protest began as a Labour Dispute. Only, instead of striking against a company, they are striking against the organization that regulates them: the government. And so, they are shutting down “the business” of Canada to be heard.
Among the Truckers’ grievances is the very LACK of interest the government has shown in managing its own economy. They argue that Vaccine Mandates imposed on our Truckers will have an impact on Canada’s supply chains including food supply.
The Trucker protest is also a grassroots organization that is not organized by a single body. Those Truckers who are blockading the borders and causing actual economic harm, are different from those in Ottawa at present. Treating every protester the same is quite unfair. The Truckers in Ottawa have brought in a huge amount of business for the restaurants and hotels that have chosen to stay open. Such businesses had suffered greatly under government lockdowns and mandates and have welcomed the protesters.
It is wrong to equate economic injury with actual violence. Otherwise we could all claim that the lockdowns our governments have imposed upon us, which were economically injurious to many, were also “violent”. Or we could claim that the Vaccine Mandates themselves, which threw many Canadians out of work, acts of “violence”. Or that freezing bank accounts because people donated money to the Truckers when it was still lawful to do so, and rendering them suddenly and without warning, unable to feed themselves or heat their homes, “not peaceful”.
The Trucker “protest” or “strike” has been inordinately peaceful. But if the Federal Government does not start to listen, I fear a greater economic consequence than that caused by the border blockades: The fall-out caused by the migration of middle class Canadians who no longer see any point to living here.
Until you are willing and able to learn to speak the language of the left, your efforts are in vain.
The Left and the Right Speak Different Languages—Literally
https://www.wired.com/story/left-right-speak-different-languages-literally/
Stephen Pinker on What Has Happened to Being Rational
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OED7AXzTPRA
2:39
Rogan
um what’s interesting to me is that uh there’s a thing that goes along with uh irrational thought where you have irrational thought that is confined to your party lines right yes if you are if i mean there’s just a blanket statement but if you are right wing you are more likely to dismiss the worries of climate change yeah
Pinker
absolutely in fact that’s the that is the main predictor of whether you dismiss climate change has nothing to do with scientific literacy you know a lot of my fellow scientists say oh the fact that there’s so much denial of man-made climate change means we need you know better science education in the schools we need scientists becoming more popular and and making the climate science more accessible turns out that whether you accept human-made climate change or not has nothing to do with how much science you know and a lot of the people who do accept it know you know diddly about the science they often will think well yeah climate change isn’t that because of you know the the hole in the ozone layer and toxic waste dumps and you know plastic straws in the oceans right really a lot of them are out to lunch whereas some of the climate deniers they’re like well-prepared litigators they can find every loophole they know every study they you know a good lawyer can argue against anything what does predict your acceptance of climate change is just where you are on the political spectrum the farther to the right the more denial so abs that’s what you said is absolutely right
We haven’t come to terms with how technology has changed how information travels since the days of daily newspapers and radio call-in shows. We are living in our own silos now. The people living in the MSM silo do not get the information SDA readers get, they don’t understand it and it scares them. As we move along in this world I expect these silos will become even more impenetrable. I have a sister living in the Guardian silo and I cannot communicate with her. At all. This is just how it is. Share things that challenge their views very incrementally, otherwise it’s hopeless. Our main concern has to be ensuring that our information sources aren’t completely removed, which is a very real threat.
“Imagine you’re part of a high-school debating club and you’re tasked with arguing on the side of Trudeau and against the truckers. What would your best arguments be?”
Robert, I’m sorry. I cannot take up your challenge. It would first involve me taking my brain out, putting it into the same jar my testicles were just placed in, & putting the jar in the fridge, right next to my spine.
Short of that, I cannot reduce myself to their level of stupidity and/or willful ignorance. Even in jest.
Interesting question you pose. As a long-time lover of debate, I’ll take a stab at it though, like many of your readers and responders, I am squarely on the side of the truckers or at least squarely against the drama teacher’s use of the Emergency Measures legislation.
The strongest case, in my view, is that many of the disruptions, especially those that occur at the border have the capacity to negatively impact trade, the economy and individual citizens lives. The trucks in Ottawa are a nuisance and there are laws on the books and strategies available to good policing that would address much of it – but if it can’t then even the Ottawa disruptions have the potential to cause harm by blocking or slowing the movement of goods or more critically, ambulance or other first responders. That would be unacceptable behaviour and justify the more stringent use of the Emergency powers.
“What would your best arguments be?”
What argument does the sheep use when the wolves are discussing what’s for dinner, Robert? His horns.
I’ve been at this “conservatism” thing a really long time. Since Kim Campbell’s C-17 gun control bill. In my considerable experience, there is absolutely no argument, fact, expression, or anything else you can say or do to make people even think about their position. If you tell them that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, they will argue against it.
You know when they will listen? When THEIR bank accounts are frozen. When THEIR car is seized, and THEY get led off to jail. That’s when. Not before. Even a declaration of martial law didn’t move them, Robert.
The best response to those people you speak of? You wish them a nice life and take them out of your contacts list, is what you do. You took your best shot at saving them, they refused to listen. FIDO. F- it, drive on.
Maybe throw them a bone if they come back begging forgiveness later.
This is far down, so I doubt many will see it, but if I were making the argument *for* Justin’s actions? It would go something like this:
The rugged individualism represented by the truckers was indeed the ‘spirit that built Canada’. The original explorers and fur traders were out on their own, thousands of miles from civilization. Even when the sodbusters and homesteaders and Hudson’s Bay arrived, one was still often hours from one’s neighbours, and often days from a town. It was normal practice to be prepared not to get fresh food for some time; all homes had larders and pantries. People dealt with disease and injury as best they could; we all know many died then from ailments we can treat today. Under those circumstances, self-reliance and the ability to do as one wished went hand in hand.
But, for the vast majority of Canadians, that is no longer the way they live. Over eighty percent of us live in cities and towns, and we depend on the constant flow of goods for our economic, physical, and cultural health. I invite you to consider our economy as a body; the highways and railways are the arteries and veins, carrying goods to and waste from one cell to another. These blockades can be thought of as ‘strokes’ – blockages in the arteries, preventing oxygen and energy from entering the brain in our actual bodies, preventing food and energy from reaching people in the analogy. Surely no one would think a series of mini-strokes would be good for our bodies; why would anyone think it’s good for our economy?
But the Ambassador Bridge was no mini-stroke; that crossing is practically the aorta of US/Canada trade. All parties realized that, which is why it resolved fairly quickly and peacefully. But Ottawa is merely the brains, or the rectum, as you please, of Canadian politics, so a little blockage there could be tolerated. But even if you take the latter view, one can only be constipated so long before relief is necessary.
The Prime Minister waited for the City of Ottawa to do its job, in co-operation with the OPP, as had happened in Windsor at the Ambassador Bridge. But the Ottawa police were unable to perform their job, as evinced by the resignation yesterday of their former Chief. The OPP and RCMP also were ineffective and invisible in their efforts to end the problem.
It was clear that something needed to be done, and since all the lower levels of government, where one might expect the usual authority, laws, and resources to resolve these situations reside, had either proved unable or unwilling to act, it fell to the Prime Minister to enter the vacuum left by these failures at the civic and provincial level. And he has done so.
The Prime Minister realises he’s taken extraordinary steps with the Emergency Power Acts, but he’s quite aware that simply dissolving the protest in Ottawa is not sufficient. As others have pointed out, the protestors suggested they would simply move to a different location, and just rotate their protests, playing a game of cat-and-mouse with law enforcement. Rather than play out futile hide-and-seek games, the Prime Minister has wisely struck at the funding and equipment of the protestors in a decisive blow to cut them off once and for all from this un-democratic process.
At least, if I were getting paid to shill for the Libranos, that’s how I’d spin it.