ooooooh lordy be Kate, the timing for this post could not be better.
I just got off the phone 3 times with the infamous elementary teachers fed regarding their ‘discussion’ and ‘vote’ and ‘recommendation’ back in August that all public school boards in ontariowe expunge John A’s name from the property.
soooooo, my Q to them was, did that vote really happen? yes.
followup question, at any time, did the indigenous people individually or officially collectively ask for this? did you at least *consult* with them prior to the vote and recommendation? or, IS IT JUST MORE PATERNALISM???
came back the response, ‘you’re being condescending’.
pot, meet kettle.
The only thingee, Person, is too close to being condescending, dumber than University Professors are the Elementary School thingees.
Kathy is most likely right about the class thing. She usually is.
From my perspective, having gotten two degrees over the years, people who haven’t been there generally misunderestimate the extent to which “university scholars” are utterly full of it. They generally aren’t all that bright, either. Not the ones that stay. They want a nice safe sinecure, and access to a new crop of cute young people every 6 months.
The “university Left” as I like to think of it is largely populated by lecherous and socially inept beta males and bitter, unatractive lesbians. A less trustworthy group is hard to imagine. But all these years they’ve been able to get by, pretending it is us, the Great Unwashed, who are to blame for everything out there.
But this week, the Big Red Wall started to crumble. Some of these womanizing a-holes are being called out. Two at the big Lefty rag The New Republic, a long time editor AND the publisher.
Trickledown theory suggests that the doodoo will trickle down onto some university types soon. Got my popcorn handy.
Nothing like a bit of “I share your pain….but the other whitey’s really don’t….so I’m more like you than like them”.
It’s a pity. Both Kay and Frum are smart fellows, but they are pompous and conceited. Kay can truck out his lower-than-blue-collar roots all he wants, but he (and Frum) would be much more at home laughin’ and scratchin’ with the likes of turdo la doo & Co. than tucking into a quart at the local pub with the likes of us.
But I’m wondering – will the line be “officially” drawn with this blood-brother-by-virtue-of-shared-ancestor-suffering”? You know, something like the formula for “native”:four generations removed might count, but five certainly won’t?
21 Then Kefa came up and said to [Yeshua], “Rabbi, how often can my brother sin against me and I have to forgive him? As many as seven times?” 22 “No, not seven times,” answered Yeshua, “but seventy times seven!
– Matthew 18 (CJB)
Although it mystifies me as to what relationship this quotation bears to the thread, I’ll reply that as a private person interacting with your brother, you can forgive him as many times as you wish, even the four hundred and ninety times prescribed by Jesus, though that is hardly imaginable for us mere mortals, especially if it is the same sin repeated over and over. However, if you were charged with protecting the public in dealing with a miscreant, that’s another matter altogether.
As to the subject matter of the thread, I agree with Kate this is mostly a question of class, not race. I do not see how anyone born into a lower social economic class can be complicit in the oppression of anyone, his parents most likely having suffered oppression. And those who unfairly gained by gaming the system, either by themselves or their ancestors who left them the fortune, oppressed the victims as a class, not a race, the most recent examples being the Clintons and the Obamas.
Whether race, class or both (often there is an overlap) Kay’s point is well taken. There are a lot of Canadians who simply do not share the guilt that is being dropped on our heads. Another issue is that the problems currently confronted by Natives will not easily be solved with some of the superficial efforts at reconciliation. Part of the issue here is that Natives are being identified as “victims”. That is a comfortable place psychologically, but it does virtually nothing to address the problems.
Did anyone read that Ian Brown piece in the Globe on Saturday where he (and dare I say various other well educated “elites”) were put together on a boat that headed up North and expected to reconcile with Natives. A gift of hockey sticks for the community was seen as perpetuating colonialism. Interestingly, the Natives seemed quite uncomfortable with having to go along with this reconciliation. Their problem (quite understandable) is that they are expected to offer forgiveness while not much changes in their actual circumstances. Putting money on the table makes some more agreeable to the idea of reconciliation, but I think that also destroys the spirit of the thing.
In short, the English and French treated the Natives quite badly. Not much to be done about that. At this point, let us address current problems and try to ensure fairness for all. Time to move on from the tedious and seemingly endless and largely gratuitous mea culpas.
the germans put my father in a concentration camp, should hate all Germans of this generation? do they owe me something, NO! Time for Indians to get off the reserve and fend for themselves, like the ones that already do that. and NO, I feel no guilt on this matter, but I am pissed that my tax dollars are being pissed away on this file
“…but it does virtually nothing to address the problems.” Exactly. Bags of cash and kumbaya meets of tears and hugs will fix nothing unless the system is changed and that won’t happen as there are too many vested interests in keeping everything as is.
NME is right, and many natives are doing just that, just not enough and the ones that are among those more equal than others.
Twenty years from now they will have Commission #43 as to the fate of missing native women and bags of cash will still be flowing.
Indians, natives, indigenous, or aboriginal? Who the h knows anymore.
The residential schools, which is just a fancy word for boarding school – like my own father went to as a child, were the best thing that ever happened to the natives. Without them they would still be living in the stone age. Even if I was personally responsible for setting up the system designed to educate the Indians and drag them kicking ans screaming out of the stone age I would feel no guilt at all. They are more that welcome to return to living as stone age hunter gatherers any time they like.
“In short, the English and French treated the Natives quite badly.”
How much better would Canada be without injuns. As a defeated nation they are treated extremely well.
But that pompous A-hole is denigrating Canada’s finest social achievement.
The Canadian Apartheid System is the finest work of generations of Liberal Politicians and Bureaucrats.
We have systematically denied our native dependents full citizen rights for generations.
This is Eugenics writ large and we lead the world..
And our ultimate side scam, was condemning the White South Africans..for copying us.
As for this guilt thing..French Haircuts will cure them.
I normally can only agree with perhaps 3/4 of a Conrad Black opinion piece but that one is full-on. The only people that should feel guilty for the situation we have today is those who support it by not wanting to eliminate this apartheid, particularly those who are part of the Indian Industry right up to and including the SCOC enablers.
The elephant in the room – which no one will mention – was that the aborigonal culture in North America was a stone-age culture, and they were slave-owners (when they could capture same from other tribes). This was a serious problem. Granted, the residential schools were a seriously imperfect solution to same; there were many white women and men who struggled hard at said schools to help the native students to win through to the ability to live in the new world which was around them while maintaining their culture. Remember hearing a native woman – whose name I choose not to disclose – who said that her years at the residential school were really good, with the teachers pushing her on to excel. It was only when she had to take a bus to an off-reservation school that she experienced discrimination. That was may years ago. She excelled.
Well Mr. black you did endorse PM Dunning-Kruger didn’t you.
So don’t bellyache now. You couldn’t tuck away your anti-Harper hardon for the good of the country.
Canada has become a laughingstock due to the fact they elected your candidate Mr Black.
Black doesn’t go far enough… Abolish the Indian Affairs NOW or face a huge Class action in ~ 20years.. The Elitism fashionable guilt is actually doubling down on discrimination. The Indian business costs society 80% for the Lawyers, Courts & civil service…The individual Indians get Crumbs & nothing changes…The Courts are not the place for principle change….What the Crown created must be abolished by the Government of (the people) democracy
PET was right when he wanted to abolish Indian affairs and the Sovereign nonsense (Apposed by Chiefs)..Follow Australia and protect the children from the history of tribal violence
Don t worry folks Justine is going to show up wearing white socks with a Liberal red tomahawk on them and all will be well, AKA Sunny Ways.
What a disgraceful thing to say. People DIED at those residential schools, and children were taken from their parents and forced into those schools.
While there is a difference in attitudes between the classes of Canadians, it is spurious to the debate over native peoples. It is also quite tedious and unproductive to get into an idiotic tribal fight pitting ale-drinking blue collar pub goers vs educated yuppies. For one thing, the educated will win. Setting the cultural direction is the reward for being educated.
Mackay and Harper hired psychopath judges and 8 suprem
Court Judges of Canada so all must fire
I had a conversation today with a couple of young southern Somali house keepers one of whom is upgrading her high school courses hoping to get into university to study law. I asked her what she was upgrading — math and “socials”. She and her friend said “socials’ was all about the native culture and how they were impacted by white settlement (you can imagine how that resonated with a couple of girls as black as they come). They said it was interesting at first but quickly got pretty tiresome. And after the incessant indoctrination they were forced to regurgitate in order to pass the course their conclusion for the way forward for the natives: “Get a job”. I so had to bite my tongue. All that time and money squandered on PC nonsense so that two black immigrants could come to the same conclusion as Archie Bunker! There is hope.
Name the person who died and what killed them. I am sure that other kids died at school in the first half of the twentieth century. Can you come up with a better way to educate the children of nomadic hunter gatherers? Do you think it would have been better to not educate them at all?
“Setting the cultural direction is the reward for being educated.”
So you’re in favour of residential schools. Or are you a bigot who believes natives shouldn’t contribute to our culture?
The resident troll said: “People DIED at those residential schools,”
People died at University of Waterloo last year. Life is hard. Wear a cup.
“…For one educated will win. …”
Tell that to Louis and Marie-Antoinette when you meet them.
Christ you people are retards. The conditions at the schools were deplorable. Criminal negligence occurred.
” Can you come up with a better way to educate the children of nomadic hunter gatherers?”
Not abducting them from their homes into abusive schools you mongoloid fascistic POS.
So you expect the teachers to traipse around the tundra from igloo to igloo as they migrate with the caribou herd, one teacher per Inuit family? Yeah that’s a great plan. I grew up in rural northern Ontario in the ’70’s and had class mates who lived far enough away that they boarded with families in town. This is a model that we have always used. My dad’s parents sent him away to a “residential school” when he was a wee lad because that is what you had to do if you wanted your child to be educated. It is not a “horrible system”, it is an eminently practical system used in a lot of places at a lot of times.
Oh Sweety, aren’t we Oh so PC.
Stop typing while you gaze into that mirror.
Gutless and useless concern trolls, know all about living conditions a mere 70 years ago.
Damn you are so stupid you probably have a Bott post for you.
When you last had a original thought, did you stagger to the left?
“And while I am a social liberal at heart, who accepts that all white Canadians, Jews included, should take stock of the racial privilege they enjoy in their daily interactions, I don’t …”
Virtue signaling truly knows no bounds.
Yea…that may well have happened.
But having said guilt over this dumped on current Canadians en large is nothing short of BS…Primarily via ongoing perpetual Victim Identity politicos such as yourself. You wanna help em.? you pay for it Jack.
At not time did those who signed treaties envision a 16th Century theme park replete with 2017 SUV’s & Flat Screen TV’s now did they.? I am in agreement with those who say: End the Indian Act – Provide Passports and Certificates of Citizenship to all Reserves Natives…they get to keep the land they are on including any improvements. Any and all spurious land claims (such as Total greater Vancouver etc), are null and void, with the Annual $25 Billion money train stopping after 5 years. They will have all the rights and obligations of any Immigrant into this country – no less and no more.
Likely the only ones that will bitch are the Chiefs and their BFF’s on their councils..well, to hell with them.
I for one am sick and tired of apologizing for being born. F that.
BAD url format.
https://www.fivefeetoffury.com/2017/10/30/jonathan-kay-it-was-only-after-i-left-my-last-job-where-i-was-the-only-jew-in-an-office-of-several-dozen-white-gentiles/
ooooooh lordy be Kate, the timing for this post could not be better.
I just got off the phone 3 times with the infamous elementary teachers fed regarding their ‘discussion’ and ‘vote’ and ‘recommendation’ back in August that all public school boards in ontariowe expunge John A’s name from the property.
soooooo, my Q to them was, did that vote really happen? yes.
followup question, at any time, did the indigenous people individually or officially collectively ask for this? did you at least *consult* with them prior to the vote and recommendation? or, IS IT JUST MORE PATERNALISM???
came back the response, ‘you’re being condescending’.
pot, meet kettle.
The only thingee, Person, is too close to being condescending, dumber than University Professors are the Elementary School thingees.
Kathy is most likely right about the class thing. She usually is.
From my perspective, having gotten two degrees over the years, people who haven’t been there generally misunderestimate the extent to which “university scholars” are utterly full of it. They generally aren’t all that bright, either. Not the ones that stay. They want a nice safe sinecure, and access to a new crop of cute young people every 6 months.
The “university Left” as I like to think of it is largely populated by lecherous and socially inept beta males and bitter, unatractive lesbians. A less trustworthy group is hard to imagine. But all these years they’ve been able to get by, pretending it is us, the Great Unwashed, who are to blame for everything out there.
But this week, the Big Red Wall started to crumble. Some of these womanizing a-holes are being called out. Two at the big Lefty rag The New Republic, a long time editor AND the publisher.
Trickledown theory suggests that the doodoo will trickle down onto some university types soon. Got my popcorn handy.
Nothing like a bit of “I share your pain….but the other whitey’s really don’t….so I’m more like you than like them”.
It’s a pity. Both Kay and Frum are smart fellows, but they are pompous and conceited. Kay can truck out his lower-than-blue-collar roots all he wants, but he (and Frum) would be much more at home laughin’ and scratchin’ with the likes of turdo la doo & Co. than tucking into a quart at the local pub with the likes of us.
But I’m wondering – will the line be “officially” drawn with this blood-brother-by-virtue-of-shared-ancestor-suffering”? You know, something like the formula for “native”:four generations removed might count, but five certainly won’t?
21 Then Kefa came up and said to [Yeshua], “Rabbi, how often can my brother sin against me and I have to forgive him? As many as seven times?” 22 “No, not seven times,” answered Yeshua, “but seventy times seven!
– Matthew 18 (CJB)
Although it mystifies me as to what relationship this quotation bears to the thread, I’ll reply that as a private person interacting with your brother, you can forgive him as many times as you wish, even the four hundred and ninety times prescribed by Jesus, though that is hardly imaginable for us mere mortals, especially if it is the same sin repeated over and over. However, if you were charged with protecting the public in dealing with a miscreant, that’s another matter altogether.
As to the subject matter of the thread, I agree with Kate this is mostly a question of class, not race. I do not see how anyone born into a lower social economic class can be complicit in the oppression of anyone, his parents most likely having suffered oppression. And those who unfairly gained by gaming the system, either by themselves or their ancestors who left them the fortune, oppressed the victims as a class, not a race, the most recent examples being the Clintons and the Obamas.
Whether race, class or both (often there is an overlap) Kay’s point is well taken. There are a lot of Canadians who simply do not share the guilt that is being dropped on our heads. Another issue is that the problems currently confronted by Natives will not easily be solved with some of the superficial efforts at reconciliation. Part of the issue here is that Natives are being identified as “victims”. That is a comfortable place psychologically, but it does virtually nothing to address the problems.
Did anyone read that Ian Brown piece in the Globe on Saturday where he (and dare I say various other well educated “elites”) were put together on a boat that headed up North and expected to reconcile with Natives. A gift of hockey sticks for the community was seen as perpetuating colonialism. Interestingly, the Natives seemed quite uncomfortable with having to go along with this reconciliation. Their problem (quite understandable) is that they are expected to offer forgiveness while not much changes in their actual circumstances. Putting money on the table makes some more agreeable to the idea of reconciliation, but I think that also destroys the spirit of the thing.
In short, the English and French treated the Natives quite badly. Not much to be done about that. At this point, let us address current problems and try to ensure fairness for all. Time to move on from the tedious and seemingly endless and largely gratuitous mea culpas.
Conrad Black’s take on native issues: http://www.conradmblack.com/1345/ottawa-has-made-a-mess-of-indigenous-policy-in
the germans put my father in a concentration camp, should hate all Germans of this generation? do they owe me something, NO! Time for Indians to get off the reserve and fend for themselves, like the ones that already do that. and NO, I feel no guilt on this matter, but I am pissed that my tax dollars are being pissed away on this file
“…but it does virtually nothing to address the problems.” Exactly. Bags of cash and kumbaya meets of tears and hugs will fix nothing unless the system is changed and that won’t happen as there are too many vested interests in keeping everything as is.
NME is right, and many natives are doing just that, just not enough and the ones that are among those more equal than others.
Twenty years from now they will have Commission #43 as to the fate of missing native women and bags of cash will still be flowing.
Indians, natives, indigenous, or aboriginal? Who the h knows anymore.
The residential schools, which is just a fancy word for boarding school – like my own father went to as a child, were the best thing that ever happened to the natives. Without them they would still be living in the stone age. Even if I was personally responsible for setting up the system designed to educate the Indians and drag them kicking ans screaming out of the stone age I would feel no guilt at all. They are more that welcome to return to living as stone age hunter gatherers any time they like.
“In short, the English and French treated the Natives quite badly.”
How much better would Canada be without injuns. As a defeated nation they are treated extremely well.
But that pompous A-hole is denigrating Canada’s finest social achievement.
The Canadian Apartheid System is the finest work of generations of Liberal Politicians and Bureaucrats.
We have systematically denied our native dependents full citizen rights for generations.
This is Eugenics writ large and we lead the world..
And our ultimate side scam, was condemning the White South Africans..for copying us.
As for this guilt thing..French Haircuts will cure them.
I normally can only agree with perhaps 3/4 of a Conrad Black opinion piece but that one is full-on. The only people that should feel guilty for the situation we have today is those who support it by not wanting to eliminate this apartheid, particularly those who are part of the Indian Industry right up to and including the SCOC enablers.
The elephant in the room – which no one will mention – was that the aborigonal culture in North America was a stone-age culture, and they were slave-owners (when they could capture same from other tribes). This was a serious problem. Granted, the residential schools were a seriously imperfect solution to same; there were many white women and men who struggled hard at said schools to help the native students to win through to the ability to live in the new world which was around them while maintaining their culture. Remember hearing a native woman – whose name I choose not to disclose – who said that her years at the residential school were really good, with the teachers pushing her on to excel. It was only when she had to take a bus to an off-reservation school that she experienced discrimination. That was may years ago. She excelled.
Well Mr. black you did endorse PM Dunning-Kruger didn’t you.
So don’t bellyache now. You couldn’t tuck away your anti-Harper hardon for the good of the country.
Canada has become a laughingstock due to the fact they elected your candidate Mr Black.
Black doesn’t go far enough… Abolish the Indian Affairs NOW or face a huge Class action in ~ 20years.. The Elitism fashionable guilt is actually doubling down on discrimination. The Indian business costs society 80% for the Lawyers, Courts & civil service…The individual Indians get Crumbs & nothing changes…The Courts are not the place for principle change….What the Crown created must be abolished by the Government of (the people) democracy
PET was right when he wanted to abolish Indian affairs and the Sovereign nonsense (Apposed by Chiefs)..Follow Australia and protect the children from the history of tribal violence
Don t worry folks Justine is going to show up wearing white socks with a Liberal red tomahawk on them and all will be well, AKA Sunny Ways.
What a disgraceful thing to say. People DIED at those residential schools, and children were taken from their parents and forced into those schools.
While there is a difference in attitudes between the classes of Canadians, it is spurious to the debate over native peoples. It is also quite tedious and unproductive to get into an idiotic tribal fight pitting ale-drinking blue collar pub goers vs educated yuppies. For one thing, the educated will win. Setting the cultural direction is the reward for being educated.
Mackay and Harper hired psychopath judges and 8 suprem
Court Judges of Canada so all must fire
I had a conversation today with a couple of young southern Somali house keepers one of whom is upgrading her high school courses hoping to get into university to study law. I asked her what she was upgrading — math and “socials”. She and her friend said “socials’ was all about the native culture and how they were impacted by white settlement (you can imagine how that resonated with a couple of girls as black as they come). They said it was interesting at first but quickly got pretty tiresome. And after the incessant indoctrination they were forced to regurgitate in order to pass the course their conclusion for the way forward for the natives: “Get a job”. I so had to bite my tongue. All that time and money squandered on PC nonsense so that two black immigrants could come to the same conclusion as Archie Bunker! There is hope.
Name the person who died and what killed them. I am sure that other kids died at school in the first half of the twentieth century. Can you come up with a better way to educate the children of nomadic hunter gatherers? Do you think it would have been better to not educate them at all?
“Setting the cultural direction is the reward for being educated.”
So you’re in favour of residential schools. Or are you a bigot who believes natives shouldn’t contribute to our culture?
The resident troll said: “People DIED at those residential schools,”
People died at University of Waterloo last year. Life is hard. Wear a cup.
“…For one educated will win. …”
Tell that to Louis and Marie-Antoinette when you meet them.
Christ you people are retards. The conditions at the schools were deplorable. Criminal negligence occurred.
” Can you come up with a better way to educate the children of nomadic hunter gatherers?”
Not abducting them from their homes into abusive schools you mongoloid fascistic POS.
So you expect the teachers to traipse around the tundra from igloo to igloo as they migrate with the caribou herd, one teacher per Inuit family? Yeah that’s a great plan. I grew up in rural northern Ontario in the ’70’s and had class mates who lived far enough away that they boarded with families in town. This is a model that we have always used. My dad’s parents sent him away to a “residential school” when he was a wee lad because that is what you had to do if you wanted your child to be educated. It is not a “horrible system”, it is an eminently practical system used in a lot of places at a lot of times.
Oh Sweety, aren’t we Oh so PC.
Stop typing while you gaze into that mirror.
Gutless and useless concern trolls, know all about living conditions a mere 70 years ago.
Damn you are so stupid you probably have a Bott post for you.
When you last had a original thought, did you stagger to the left?
“And while I am a social liberal at heart, who accepts that all white Canadians, Jews included, should take stock of the racial privilege they enjoy in their daily interactions, I don’t …”
Virtue signaling truly knows no bounds.
Yea…that may well have happened.
But having said guilt over this dumped on current Canadians en large is nothing short of BS…Primarily via ongoing perpetual Victim Identity politicos such as yourself. You wanna help em.? you pay for it Jack.
At not time did those who signed treaties envision a 16th Century theme park replete with 2017 SUV’s & Flat Screen TV’s now did they.? I am in agreement with those who say: End the Indian Act – Provide Passports and Certificates of Citizenship to all Reserves Natives…they get to keep the land they are on including any improvements. Any and all spurious land claims (such as Total greater Vancouver etc), are null and void, with the Annual $25 Billion money train stopping after 5 years. They will have all the rights and obligations of any Immigrant into this country – no less and no more.
Likely the only ones that will bitch are the Chiefs and their BFF’s on their councils..well, to hell with them.
I for one am sick and tired of apologizing for being born. F that.