The other day I had a drink with a recent immigrant from China. I asked her why she had chosen Vancouver out of all the other places in the country. She went on to tell me that she had seriously considered moving to Montreal with her school-aged son. Then she started listing a long list of “free perks” the Quebec government had told her she’d be eligible for should she move there. I asked her if she knew why Quebec was able to offer so many benefits. She did not. This discussion between Lorne Gunter and Derek Fildebrandt of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation explains the little “game” that successive Quebec governments have been playing with the Equalization Program.
To be perfectly accurate those benefits come directly from an industry, province and people Quebec politicians show open contempt for – can ingratitude be any more psychotic than that?
From the government teat to the intentionally weak…
French speakers own the ‘ROC’. Go to Ottawa, it’s a French city with the wealthiest postal codes in the country.
Quebec: biting the hand that feeds them since 1960. Rest of Canada: getting bitten for fifty freakin’ years and continuing to feed Quebec. Who is the greater fool?
In other news, has anyone noticed that Canadian cities have become glorified shopping malls, where the only economic activity is retail, and the only remaining path to wealth is real-estate speculation? How long can our population centers stumble along like that, a nation of shop-keepers selling foreign goods to each other in rented store fronts? How long before Canada’s “half your income” taxes are taking in “half of f- all”?
I would estimate not much longer. Quebec is riding a shrinking wave that is now propagating across ever-shallower water. Pretty soon they’re going to hit the sand. Nobody likes them now, so that impact is going to be met with a collective shrug and a hearty “tough sh1t!” from the RoC.
Philanthropist – yes, you are quite right. That’s due to Trudeau’s Charter of Rights. The Charter doesn’t give any fundamental rights to the individual – for these rights are all trumped by identity bloc group rights. The Charter is primarily a law that sets up bilingualism as the ruling force in our Canadian government.
Back then and now, over 60 years after the Charter, the FACT, the REALITY, is that Canada was not and is not and never will be a bilingual nation. Only 20% are bilingual and these are based primarily in the Ottawa-Montreal region.
The result is that our government bureaucracy moved into the control of an isolate population Set in the Ottawa-Montreal area. They are the bureaucracy of Canada. They are primarily francophone and their mindset is totally out of touch with the modern economic and demographic reality of Canada.
Quebec, as a population and economy, is also alienated from reality for it is propped up by the Canadian taxpayer.
Fact and fiction – we live in two worlds and the two are always in conflict.
Phantom;
An accurate summary of where the country is headed. No mistake when young Turdeau claimed the best five PM’s were Liebels from Quebec. The attitude in Quebec is really no different than the Maritimes where pogey is a right. The native industry which benefits the civil service administrators in Ottawa more so than the natives. Quebec has benefited so handsomely because they played the separation option so well.
We started Reform to correct many of these BS issues and have achieved limited success. Politicans are a cheap overlay on a society ran by civil servants and those who can insert themselves into the money trough that they all feed on. Influence peddlers and ingrates.
Rented shops selling foreign goods, so true. If it were not for the foreign currency the oil industry was bringing in the whole thing would have collapsed a long time ago. If PMSH had established a dialogue with Canadians 6 years ago the population might have been better prepared. The irony of so called conservatives is that they abdicate the education of their children to progressives and then cannot understand why their thinking is warped when they graduate. At least when in government they could take up the educational challenge.
ET, exactly.
ROC, the new serfs.
CT, yes, and the Conservative government has not been able to make a dent in this elite controlling the country. I am not sure how Darrel Bricker and John Ibbitson arrived at the evidence presented in their book “The Big Shift” that I just purchased, but have not yet read. .
I blame the provincial and federal gov’ts.
There is a lot of misinformation about Equalization. In the first place it is not the Premier of the Province that pays money to Ottawa. It is the citizens and the companies of each Province that is a Have Province that directly pays this to Ottawa. The Premiers pay squat out of their coffers. But they bend their knees and tug their forelocks and allow the citizens to be taxed at a higher rate just because they are successful. In Alberta that equals about $5,000 dollars per man woman and child. Or $20,000 per family of four. Of all the taxes collected in Alberta, Ottawa returns $5000 per person less in benefits, goods and services. And our Premiers are complicit and do not defend our rights to equal taxation. It is the same with Unemployment Insurance payments etc. Trudeau’s Marxist Program is a failure.
CT: Education, communication (CBC) and the LPC have been 3 spokes in the wheel rolling us to the bottom.
By not having Children . Quebec as being French, is taking care of this problem by itself. Mass extinction looms for its Pure Lain.With so may Immigrants including colonists now here. The newcomers won’t put up with it much longer. When Canada itself has all but disappeared In the multicultural maze. The ethics of this will be gone. The free for all theft by this province will melt away.
having no reason to survive.
ET & CT; right on! However identifying the problem with the present and probable continuing future does not bring correction. It is time to make the correct assertions and changes.
1. Recognize French culture was established in this less conducive northern climate first.
2. Recognize the French political elites ran away when the British conquered the French culture.
3. Britain was unable to retain the French Ohio river valley possession under the western expansion of the American culture.
4. American progressive thinking is possibly leading to Spanish speaking domination of the U.S.A. southwest.
5. Quebec is a separate culture and has been recognized as such.
English Canada needs to truly recognize this separate culture of Quebec as a nation and let them go their own way. The first step is to work towards a Canada wide referendum on maintaining the present two cultures; one nation concept.
This concept of two in one only perpetuates the existing political class. The political class in any country are a group without party, only a desire to advance their access to privilege. Ideology is immaterial, advancement within a preferred social class is what Politicos aspire.
Changing the Politicos struggle is what will bring change, for a period of time, as history has always shown. Therefore; call the Quebecois bluff? or yearning? and move ROC towards Separation. The English speaking, non Francophone ROC culture will stand on its own. Let’s give it a chance to breathe free air. Cheers;
In spite of being rich in natural resources Quebec is perpetually in have-not status. This is to suck as much from Equalization as possible while they continue to blackmail with threats of separating from the country. With these handouts they’re offering their residents programs the provinces paying them equalization can’t afford for their own residents.
If ever there was a reason to get rid of Equalization Quebec is exhibition A.
IMO getting rid of Equalization would make all provinces act more fiscally responsible. Barring natural disasters they should fly on their own.
Ontario is another more recent example of fiscal mismanagement where not only residents of the province will be paying for their irresponsibility.
Liberal PSH can no more fix “equalization” than he can “fix” the senate! It is entrenched in the constitution. In other words Quebec would have to agree to take less!
Free the West. Only if they think we will leave will they do anything to correct this CON-federation.
Mike Sr, a great many people would support Quebec separation; probably more in the ROC than in Quebec itself!
But Quebec won’t leave. Its socialist lifestyle is unsustainable without the ROC financial input. The ROC puts in over 5-6 billion MORE per year into Quebec than the amount of Quebec taxes sent to the federal govt. And I’m not including the employment of the Quebec ‘literati class’ who function as the federal bureaucrats.
Quebec is a heavy fiscal burden on Canada. It’s not only those 5 billion extra per year; it’s also the high cost of bilingualism in Canada.
What does Canada get in return? Sneers, contempt and endless demands.
CT, clearly the Great Ship of State is heading for the beach. I believe we are now where Japan was in roughly 1980, appearance of robust health masking completely hollowed-out wreckage within. You only have to drive around the former Engine of Confederation here in Ontario to see that outside of Guelph and Mississauga, there’s -nothing- going on.
Canada doesn’t even make its own drill pipe or pipeline pipe anymore. Used to be there was the mother of all pipe mills in Hamilton at Stelco, but is now US Steel and it is SHUT. Union is locked out as of April 2013. Welland Pipe was sold off to somebody in the mid 2000’s and last time I drove past it was shut too. Pipe outfits on Burlington St. in Hamilton all import from the USA.
That’s just pipe. Imagine that times every sector in the manufacturing realm. Heavy industry or light, there isn’t any. Because government.
I think the true future job of Conservatives in Canada is to kill off the public sector unions and public sector middle management in this country. If we don’t, we will be Japan. We’d long since be there already but for oil in the ground.
Equalization is a brilliant means of discouraging enterprising Canadians.
Just like the NEP, the message has been clear and consistent, if you make above average efforts to succeed, govt will crush and pillage you.
Remember governments tax what they wish to discourage.
The systemic looting will not stop as long as that pot of public wealth exists.
Do any parasites voluntarily detach? Before they are bloated?
All bets are off, all levels of government are in breach of contract to taxpayers.
Those who have paid and are paying are out of luck.
Benefits are now reserved for the voluntarily nonproductive.
There is no upper limit on taxes.
Until we revolt and starve the beast, it will continue to grow.
Bureaucracy is the cancer of civil society.
If we limit the resources available, we restrict the growth.
10% was good enough for the Church for centuries, anything more is just going to be wasted in our government.
Stelco? It happens often. We had a 1960 model Cockshutt 550 tractor which was a wonderful machine. In 1962 White bought out Cockshutt and shut down production but used the dealer network and Cockshutt goodwill to sell those green Oliver abortions repainted in Cockshutt colours. A thriving Canadian company was simply trashed.
Ivbinconned you are wrong that Quebec can not be given less. The amount of equalization to be paid is not in the Constitution Act 1982. It is renegotiated every 5 years. It is due to be renegotiated in 2014. That is when Alberta, BC, Sasketchewan and NFLD need to say no more money until our books balance4g2f.
Sorry to have to correct you RFB. Let me be more clear…
EQUALIZATION AND REGIONAL DISPARITIES
36. (1) Without altering the legislative authority of Parliament or of the provincial legislatures, or the rights of any of them with respect to the exercise of their legislative authority, Parliament and the legislatures, together with the government of Canada and the provincial governments, are committed to
(a) promoting equal opportunities for the well-being of Canadians;
(b) furthering the economic development to reduce disparity in opportunities; and
(c) providing essential public services of reasonable quality to all Canadians.
(2) Parliament and the government of Canada are committed to the principle of making equalization payments to ensure that provincial governments have sufficient revenues to provide reasonably comparable levels of public services at reasonably comparable levels of taxation.(19)
So we might tinker with the system, like tinkering with the senate appointing process which PSH has quickly reverted to the same old liberal approach, or we can remove the clause #36 from the constitution. Oh no…like I said, it can not be done, out side of an organized treat!
I wrote Marois and told her that if and when the day came that she got a majority vote in Quebec to leave Canada, I promised to cut her a $500 ‘bon voyage’ cheque so quickly that it would make her head spin.
No response – must be the fact that my message was in English.
Anyone know how to put that in French so that we can all send her the same message?
NDPiste…can you help us out?
You are wrong IVBINCONNED. That is why the amounts of equalization are renegotiated every 5 years, next year is negotiation time again. What will happen if Alberta says NO. Nothing will happen, because there are no penalties for refusing to play the game. Can they lock up Premier RedFRAUD for refusing to play, no they can’t. There is nothing in what you quoted spelling out amounts to be paid. It could be $1 dollar or 10B. With Alberta carrying 50B in structural debt and running multiple yearly Billion Dollar deficits, and cuts in our own services, there is no way legally to force Alberta to sustain the levels we have been paying. Just like they have been going up, they can also be negotiated down.
Unfortunately Alberta doesn’t pay money into equalization, the federal government takes it by taxing our citizens, not the Alberta government. We just don’t get any of it back, while everyone else does.
Exactly the problem, The feds takes it then spreads it around minus their cut.
Only way I see for fiscal sanity in governance is pay taxes locally, let local govt pay the province a %, and the prove pay the feds a %.
None more than 10%.
Then we can “communicate” with the politicians when they spend stupidly.
Right now local government is encouraged to behave stupidly by Federal bribery.
Hey, another couple of years of Liberals here in McDinkyland and we’ll be sucking up as much as the slorks next door.
“And our Premiers are complicit and do not defend our rights to equal taxation.” (RFD)
We are on the same side here RFD but I think my view is based on reality as your comment above demonstrates.
Where is that enshrined??
“What will happen if Alberta says NO.” I think that was a question and you know the answer.
I agree with you that Western premiers have repeatedly sold us a bill of goods and insured our enslavement over the years starting with Peter Lougheed and Roy Romeo when they agreed to an “amending formula” that cemented the system including Section 36 of our constitution.
But you shouldn’t put all the blame on Trudeau as CONservative MP’s have enjoyed preserving the system too and using it to their political gain.
It all sucks and the only solution is secession or the western threat thereof.
Why not give that a try…Quebec has done it for years and when Quebec seperatist die the flags a federal buildings across the west fly at half mast.
I am currently living in Hong Kong and you would not believe the operation being run here by the Quebec government. Essentially it is a shadow immigration operation. Multiple Quebec ‘judges’ live in Hong Kong and interview four Chinese candidates each day for immigration to Quebec however they know 90%+ leave Quebec immediately after moving to Canada.
These judges have an unbelievable lifestyle. Multiple living locations, multiple offices and an over generous daily food allowance make the costs of this operations in the millions per judge. The real government of Canada is here doing the same thing!
I am living here on an expat package which is extremely generous but does not come close to the compensation giving these bureaucrats. What a great use of tax payer money.
Bring up equalization payments in Nova Scotia and yhou will quickly get a lecture about how the Maritimes sent cod out west in the dirty thirties (or some such rubbish). At least Nova Scotia sends their labour talent out west. Quebec not only takes the money but expects more.
btw, the reference to nurses, etc getting similar wages across the country also goes down to provincial level in Nova Scotia. What ever the Nurses, etc negotiate in Halifax is mirrored all across the province.
Texas Canucksaid: “At least Nova Scotia sends their labour talent out west. Quebec not only takes the money but expects more.”
In fairness, when was the last time you saw a Quebecois under 50 you’d trust to weld two pieces of metal together? They’re all like FrenchDipper, effete, arrogant and useless. And on drugs too.
General Machine who makes the best friggin’ table saw on Planet Earth is presently ceasing all manufacturing operations in Canada (Quebec!) and re-locating to “the Orient”. So all there will be available in the very near future is Taiwanese or Chinese machines painted green with a “General” sticker slapped on.
Why? All the old guys retired, the new guys aren’t up to much, the regulations are atrocious even when you’re an Old Guard company, and really why bother? Better/faster/cheaper to let the Chinese do all the stinky dirty parts of making the thing, just fire all but the sales staff and a couple of warehousemen. KaCHING! Money rolls in.
For a while.
Until guys like me notice that the “General” from Taiwan isn’t half the machine the real Canadian made General was. Then we buy the identical machine with the “KING” sticker on it for half the price. Or Busy Bee, or Grizzly, or…
Tell you what my friends, if you want the real deal Big Green table saw you better jump to it, because if you don’t buy a new one in the next little while you are going to be buying used.
Tell you something else. Next time I buy a machine it will be a used American or German made monster from the 1960’s. I want a knee mill or a lathe, maybe a shaper or a big planer, the new Chinese stuff is nothing like as good as the old stuff. No comparison.
ivbeconned promoting “equal opportunity” quebecers are living ABOVE the levels of the other provinces not equal to because they receive MORE from the central fund than the ROC. That is not equal.
As previously said; Let’s do something. A national referendum seems a reasonable place to start. Stay focused on this one thing. Don’t let the Politicos use their skills and access to manipulating media to cloud the issue.
A referendum on Equalization is a start if there is a great reluctance to Separation for the West of Quebec. Maybe WOQ is the answer, but it is too soon. A first step could be no more Equalization. It is just a Politico creation and if this present Politico class feels their life style is up for grabs they will clear away the Brush Stuff put in the way.
Step by step, its how the Equalization vote generating scheme was established; its how the Quebec Separatist Politicos developed their method of establishing a cushy lifestyle. (see Derek @ 7:45 p.m.)
Talking is good; having a place to talk is good; establishing a common purpose is the answer. Cheers;
Long term, the real solution would be to change the constitution and/or separate (parts of Quebec) from Canada.
Short term, the straightforward way is improve the system (e.g. in 2014):
– smaller
– fairer (e.g. per capita based block grants to all provinces)
– require fiscal discipline
– require growth (i.e. wealth) generating policies
– etc
Btw, is this really a matter of negotiation? Cannot the feds simply implement whatever equalization program they want?
Someone with constitutional knowledge, please advise.
scar;
Years ago a suggestion was made that western provinces collect all taxes and remit to Ottawa. That western provinces opt out of CPP and run their own. All this was laughed at by easterners who truth be told probably thought the western cowboys couldn’t run an outhouse.
When I was an active Reformer I continually advocated for Reform to run provincially in the West. Preston Manning felt a national party was necessary for change. My thought was real change could only come from a strong negociating position. The CPC might be in power in Ottawa today but we should all realize that will not last. Hugh forces in the east, both left and right, see the Harper government as an affront to modern thinking. Combine that with the intrusive corruption that exists throughout society and the prognosis is not good.
You are right CT. Reform should have started “Western” provincial parties as that is where all “constitutional” negotiations take place. It didn’t make sense to start a new federal party unless you intended to deflect westerners away from the only long term solution to the Canadian rip off system.
Reform came out of their first founding convention with a list of 10 top priorities. 8 of which delt with constitutional changes!!! So how did it make sense to start a new federal party and go down the same road as the CCF, Progresives, and Social credit?
Led by wolfs in sheeps clothing can be the only conclusion.
I also agree that “events” will over take Harper and we will relive the horror of my parents watched as the country got sucked into the Trudeau mania of 1968!
There is no point arguing with idiots.
OLD DIPPER SEPARATIST/ we are not arguing with you or any other parasite from Quebec. We are telling the truth. When Quebec does go, you will be going with the little strip of land along the north shore of the St. Lawrence and a boot print on your ass.
“….There is no point arguing with idiots…”
Away la! Pauvre p’tit crotte! Don’ be like dat!
Je, t’agace, mais c’est jus pour la fun.
E! ‘ti crotte, ‘elp out your ol’ frens on SDA, la….we wants to ‘elp all you li’l pretend pequistes grow up into real separatistes.
Lisez mon post vers 2:16 yesterday.
E! Ecrivez une lettre pour tes vieux amis ici, la. En francais!
Dats a good li’l guy.