The Joint Committee on Taxation found that raising the tax on millionaires (the so-called Buffet Rule) to 30% federal would raise $5 billion per year.
Worse, if the Democrats passed all of their tax increase wish list – Congress’s Joint Committee on Taxation concluded the best case scenario (if no one changes their behaviour) – would raise $82 billion…..or just 7% of the current deficit.
In short there is simply no possibility that the Fiscal Cliff will be solved without MASSIVE spending cuts. Don’t tell that to a lefty like CNN’s Candy Crowley though, as the math simply does’t fit this idiot’s fantasy….. as she proved on Sunday’s State of the Union when she pitched Tax Hikes Without Even Mentioning Spending Cuts
Considering the U.S. Federal Government BORROWS ahem..$120 billion a MONTH, these proposals should at least be considered.
And then laughed at.
A Hard Rain is Gonna Fall.
No $hit?
“Idiot’s fantasy” and “A Hard Rain is Gonna Fall.” Exactly. Why do these idiots not get it? All they have to do is look at the countries in southern Europe to see where they are going. The stupidity is unbelievable.
Other people’s money has almost dried up. Unless they want to start borrowing against Obama’s great great grand children.
That is probably ok as he has no compassion for anyone.
Which is why I say “Give them what they want. Let the kid grab the hot burner, so he KNOWS it’s really HOT. Since he won’t believe you.
Sometimes you just have to let nature take it’s course.
The pdf for the BUFFET Rule JCX-73-12 states only an increase of $8 Million, not $8 billion.
The Real money, if you wish to use that term, is from increasing Estate/gift taxes.
There we’re talking an increased take of $17.2 billion to $29.4 billion 2013-2024
Still borrowing $100 billion/month.
Buy gold.
Although I realize the “Laffer Curve” is named after it’s proponent the economist Laffer…
These idiots will swiftly discover there ain’t nothing humourous about the Laffer Curve.
Point of fact, the current layoffs by US businesses validate the already numerous warnings…it’s already happening.
No, eastern paul. First buy lead. Gold is no good to you at all if you do not have sufficient lead to keep it from the Urban Youth and “Law Enforcement” who claim it is theirs.
Here’s something about the Buffett Rule that’s rarely mentioned.
1) People pay their taxes on income. With the money that’s left over, they invest.
2) At some point, that leftover money becomes money saved for retirement … think RRSP and tax-free savings accounts.
3) Since taxes have already been paid on income, there’s a lower tax rate on investment income ie money that’s left over after initial income taxes are paid.
So, if the tax rate for investment income becomes the same as income tax rates, who will it hurt the most?
A: Senior citizens, who have scrimped and saved all their lives to provide themselves with a retirement income will now be charge 30% tax instead of 15%.
That means seniors will have less money.
Unintended consequences or part of the master plan? Can they be this stupid not to see how many millions of retiring baby boomers this will affect?
Obama’s Tax the Rich plan includes a massive hike in Estate (Inheritance) Tax, which will have a devestating effect on family farms.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/333715/taxed-death-jillian-kay-melchior
I’m thinking there will be a lot more people clinging to guns and religion in the near future.
(if no one changes their behaviour)
You might be a lefty if you think people will change their behaviour if you tax junk food but they won’t if you increase income taxes.
The USA has become a house of cards. No way to tax enough to pay their bills, no way to cut spending enough to live within their means. This will end badly. I agree with Mark Matis. I’ve been buying gold ever since Bozo Obamidiot was elected, but I think a good supply of lead won’t go awry.
This argument would have been so easy to defeat, IF MITT CALLED OBAMA ON IT AT THE DEBATES WHILE EVERYONE WAS WATCHING!!! Once again this is good information to have before hand so people have a reason to vote for you but what do I know.
People calm down, there’s no need to get all excited about the “fiscal cliff”.
The end of the world remember?
Dec 21 2012 is only a month away, there won’t be any need to worry after that.
Jeeze…!
Candy Crowley is so past her sell-by date it’s pathetic.
I figure there’ll be a special place for her in the afterlife, an especially dark and smelly hole infested by creepy crowleys (yuck, yuck), reserved for the useful idiots who helped the Obamanation get elected to a second term during which he destroyed the U.S.A.
She’s an absolute disgrace to the “profession” (sic) of journalism and is one of the premiere reasons why journalists now own a lower-than-a-snake’s-belly approval rating from the public.
Mark has it nailed. That turd Romney could not articulate something as simple as THAT?!! Deserved to lose, dammit
You can only borrow and print for so long, the lenders stop lending and the diluted currency waters out.
The US doesn’t produce enough tangible anything of real value to make up for the shortfall in this burnt out global Ponzi scheme. The only things they can do now is continue to lie and pretend like it isn’t happening, right up until the day they need to “bug out” on their private helicopters, jets, and yachts to get out of Dodge for friendlier well armed sanctuaries abroad.
Can you say “gimme dem dam shoos cracker”.
As the old economists warned, when you tax a dollar, you deprive the private industry of the uses of that dollar.
So, Investment and Production, paid for by that private dollar, will cease.
And there’ll be nothing to tax.
Obama’s rhetoric of ‘the rich should pay their fair share’ is so malicious and fallacious that it’s stunning the GOP haven’t called him on it. The rich already pay the majority of taxes; the top 10% of earners pay 68% of tax revenue and 47% pay no federal income taxes. How is that fair?
Obama’s other false rhetoric is that he wants increased taxes to ‘pay down the deficit’. But every economist has said that these taxes will merely whisper at the deficit; they won’t pay it down by an inch.
What is needed, are massive overhaulings of entitlements. But Obama has built up a dependent population, devoted to him, who are all dependent on federal money. He won’t touch them.
There is no political will to solve the problem of debt and deficit in the US. At any level. There’s also no amount taxation that can resolve it anyway. Absolutely MASSIVE austerity measures throwing millions of government employees out of work might help – until you have to give those newly unemployed income assistance. Fixing this puppy will take an act of God.
Canadians could be overwhelmed by takers coming here once the gravy in the US runs out. Can millions of unregistered Democrats be stopped at the border?
While there is no point to all this socialist destruction, the results could be very nasty if pop media and their moron followers go negative on the unregistered Dems. 7 to 15 million people on the run for our border?
Who is John Galt?
There are fewer than 10 million in the US, the individuals that own the small and medium businesses that employ close to 3/4’s of the employees in the US, less than a quarter of US workers work for a large (Evil) corporation. For them, Galts Gulch is somewhere in Texas, and they are fleeing DemoCalifornia (for one) with their capital.
Strip every dime from the Forbes 500, spend it like the US government, after 9 months it’s all gone. Then what?
We see now the end game of fractional reserve banking and fiat currency.
Philanthropist @ 7:15pm “Canadians could be overwhelmed by takers coming here once the gravy in the US runs out. Can millions of unregistered Democrats be stopped at the border?”
I was actually thinking about the positive possibility, the opposite of your fears. What if it is the driven, motivated and prosperous who flee to Canada? The only down side of this scenario is for those who support the military deserters.
Obozo’s into class warfare, pure and simple. This raising “rich people’s” taxes is just window dressing. It’s a full-scale class war.
Obama’s part of the rich set but his bank account’s full because of government programs, not because of any initiative or risk on his part. He’ll stay rich but he’ll attack the innovators and risk-taker investors (Romney included) who, essentially, pay his salary.
He may find that having taxed “the rich”, once too often and at too high a rate, there’s not much left for guys like him.
Oh wait. There won’t be much left for all of the eedjits who voted for him so they could have free food, phones, and fun — but there’ll always be enough for him and his henchmen. He’ll make sure of that.
From a book of essays by Thomas J. DiLorenzo entitled Organized Crime: The Unvarnished Truth About Government.
Knacker >
“What if it is the driven, motivated and prosperous who flee to Canada?”
Those people are called The Americans, they will stay to defend and work whatever small corner of the US they currently live.
It’s the big city dregs of US society that will flee to greener pastures in Canada once they’ve burnt themselves out of house & home and the real American’s shoot them off their properties, towns, and villages.
Where ever you are in +25K community Canada, you will see American homeless in the parks and crime rates will soar incrementally. Most of them will be used to being shot at; it’ll take them a little time to realize what liberal unarmed pussy’s Canadians are, after that you guessed it.
3 solutions:
– Tax the rich
– Cut the military budget.
– Introduce a 5% federal sale tax.
Then the deficit will be gone.
@ Knight99
Maybe, but in Canada it is the “takers” who stay put and the “givers” who relocate to find work and prosperity.
Another ‘Y2K’ typical scenario to knee-cap conscientious investors. Obomba may as well just keep printing more $$ and keep it going. It is indeed a game of economic musical-chairs, gauged in entertainment value only. Out of our control… It should never disrupt a good night’s sleep.
3 (or more) solutions:
– Tax the rich
– Cut the military budget.
– Introduce a 5% federal sale tax.
– End all transfer payements.
– Raise daily child care rates.
– Raise tuitions.
– Cut Provincial attendance at International federal forums.
Wow. QueNDPseparatist is on to a good thing…
Don’t know how after decades of watching what governments do with more tax dollars they keep giving the govenment more authority to tax them some more?
The problem isn’t that there isn’t enough people being taxed more, the problem is that bureaucrats are motivated to retain their head counts and their budgets.
Its all become:
California Dreamin – Mamas & The Papas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-aK6JnyFmk&feature=related
What gives me hope is that once Rome had fallen, city states like Venice successful due to being based on market systems emerged to last hundreds of years.
The problem is thinking you can take the moochers with you and fix the country. Let if fail, and then let those who know how to be successful and survive create like they have always done.
I say just call china tell me your never going to pay me back and they can either suck it up or they can drop the gloves!!!
3 solutions:
– Tax the rich
– Cut the military budget.
– Introduce a 5% federal sale tax.
Then the deficit will be gone.
Posted by: Quebecois NDP separatiste at November 20, 2012 9:09 PM
Hark! I hear a voice from a tanque septique calling:
“eh! When she get real col’ down ‘ere, I just hask for more ‘ot water!’
@ Paul in Calgary: but but if we told China we weren’t paying it back then noone would lend our government money again.
Hey wait a second…
quebecois, hah, hah, hah, hah….your ignorance of economics is fit for a comedy show.
The rich (please define) already pay 70% of tax revenue. Hah, hah, hah…Taxing them 100% won’t do a thing with a deficit in the trillions.
I’ll bet you don’t know that governments don’t produce wealth; only the private sector produces wealth. So, when you bleed the private sector dry, gosh, guess what happens?
Oh, are you aware that a basic law in economics, empirically proven true over thousands of years, is that when you remove money from the Investment and Production phases of the economy, which is only done in the private sector …then, all production stops. Nothing is made, nothing is sold. No more profits; and thus, no more taxes.
When you take money from Paul to pay Peter who lives off the public purse, then, Paul..who owns that factory and hires those workers, goes bankrupt. Oops. No jobs for workers.
What’s needed?
Reduce taxes to allow investment in the private business sector. Reduce regulations to allow private businesses to even exist. Reform the tax code. Reduce the ratio of those who pay zilch.
Reduce the number and scope of entitlement programs – which include everything from various subsidies, to food stamps, to ..well, the costs of these public programs means that there’s no money left in private hands to run a business.
In Quebec? Heh, raise tuition rates to national averages, so that the Canadian taxpayer doesn’t have to hand over their hard earned money to fund your Quebec universities. Pay your own daycare so that the Canadian taxpayer doesn’t have to. Oh, and do something about the corruption and the unions, so your roads are actually functional and your bridges last and you don’t have to boil your tap water every other week.
The actual problem is that half the country either don’t care or they think the FrenchDip is correct. They really do think that “taxing the Rich” and getting rid of the military will make it all better.
It won’t, because the idiot dipper is 1000% wrong, but they all think it will. They believe it. So the policy will be to do the obvious wrong thing harder and faster. Until the other half of the country is friggin’ mad and shows up to vote it down.
We should know, Canada has been on that track since the 1970’s and we survived it by the skin of our teeth. We already had our banking collapse, our monetary collapse, and our real estate collapse years ago. Now we are out the other side with a -mildly- conservative regime steering vaguely away from the rocks. First time since I was a kid.
Watching the Yanks do it is going to be tiresome.
Really, what did people (even Quebeckie) think would happen? Jobs are being lost. The government is borrowing from China and paying for crap projects (like 35 “green” companies that went under). You have more takers than makers. Even if you could get the rich to pay fifty percent in taxes, it still wouldn’t pay for everything.
Dear Obama Voters,
Welcome to Screwed-Ville. Population: you.
brass cartridges, wheel weights, primers, powder…. then maybe silver and gold
Think about how to will deal with thousands of American refugees who come across the border ‘on the way to Alaska’ but choose to stay for the free stuff in Canada.
ET, exactly. It appears that some think this time Lenin’s boys will get it right. That great socialist utopia is just around the corner, after the last capitalist gets bumped off or taxed into oblivion. It is amazing how the great lie keeps getting traction.
101 Things To Do ‘Til The Revolution
http://billstclair.com/lodge/Books101.shtml
Math is hard but if you can see the budget in pictures it’s very entertaining.
http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/us_government_budget/us_govt_budget.html
Heh heh, anybody watching Obumbles stumbling through coping the US economic/debt crisis might believe he has been hanging out at an Occupy camp smokin’ splifs and dropping home-made acid.
A drug induced mental fog is the only way to explain the bad math I’m hearing from his number crunchers. Here’s some numbers for Obumbles – let’s say we tax the frik out of the “rich” – not only the rich but every one – each household’s share of the debt he ran up is $57,000. The US GDP expressed on a per household basis shows an average American household income as being $50,000. So, if he confiscated 100% of all tax bracket incomes he would still have a $7K per family shortfall to pay off the debt principle – and today I heard Obumbles nattering about their “aggressive taxing regime retiring the “deficit” (not the debt folks) in 10 years. What about the service charges (interest) on his 17 trillion (that is counting the securities that went missing at the Fed)??? I can see the “Bamaphone” lady paying for her air time with non existant food stamps as the debt interest eats a larger and larger chunk of the welfare budget. But hey, just spark up the printing presses, right Obumbles!
In Jefferson’s day congress would have hung this mathematically dyslexic idiot as a public menace
They’ll learn. Too bad in some ways that they are so powerful, it’s only served to enable the enablers.
Canada in the 90’s is what America is heading for. I remember reading about Roy Romanow in the early 90’s winning the election in Sask and heading off to New York to get more money and the bankers told him NO.
Then, slowly, but surely reality began to dawn on even a socialist. “We…don’t…have…any…money.”
Then it was ten years of pain and poverty. Saskatchewan sucked so bad in the 90’s. So bad.
Preferential tax rates are subsidies…Fairness never hurt anybody. End of story.
Best get rid of the graduated tax system, eh phil?
Gee pill, if the tax on income is the same as the tax on investment, don’t you think most people will stop risking their money on investments? Why would you take a chance on losing money you already have if there’s no profit in it?
Wouldn’t a smart person just take their money someplace else where the taxes don’t steal all their profit?
Inquiring minds want to know.
phil, kindly think.
Investment income is taxed twice, unlike salary income which is only taxed once. Investment income is taxed at the source, the business corporation which you have invested in. It’s taxed at a corporation tax rate. In the US this is about 35%; in Canada it’s 15% and going down to 14%.
Then, some of what’s left goes back into more Investment and Production costs in that business. And some of what’s left that goes to you, personally, as in investor. This is taxed at the personal investment rate about 14%, not the salary rate.
So, that means that the same $100 profit that the corporation made is taxed twice. Does the government care how it takes its loot? No, but it gets a cut of 35 and 14 percents from that same one hundred dollars. A salary is only taxed once.
I find the emotional responses to a mathematical problem amusing. We are talking simple arithmetic. There is not enough wealth, never mind income, to support current levels of spending.
Tragic, but what cannot continue will not, even if kittens die or the poor suffer or the racial impact is disproportionate.
Putting everyone on food stamps, then breaking up the farms. Obama is a genius.
MarkD – exactly. It’s simple arithmetic. I find it stunning that so many people don’t get the basic equation.
A government takes money or wealth created by its citizens. Money is only a symbol. It’s a symbol of ‘goods or services created by work’.
Goods and services require Investment to Produce them. You have to obtain the raw materials, build the machinery and factory, hire and pay the workers. Then market and sell the produce. If a government takes all the money away from these businesses, then, they can’t get the raw materials, maintain the factory, produce the products, pay the workers. And so, there’s not even any money for the government to take!
If the government insists on spending more than it takes in, it goes into debt and puts these citizens in debt! For generations and generations! And, since it takes so much from the citizens that they can’t run their factories and businesses, then, no internal wealth is produced.
It’s simple arithmetic. Why is this so hard to understand?
To ET at 10:05am
Why is it so hard to understand?
It’s because they don’t want to understand! They see people who have worked hard for their entire lives and are finally enjoying the fruits of their labours and they can’t stand it. How dare those people own their own homes, travel the world, be able to afford to send their children to decent colleges and universities while the rest of them have trudge their way to McDonalds to ask people if they want it supersized. They want the same lifestyle but want to avoid the work that goes along with it, plain and simple.
That my friend, is how marxism strengthens its roots in a civilization, by telling the takers that they have every right to what the makers have without the blood sweat and tears needed to produce it.