The National Post’s John Ivison has a pretty balanced summary of the Liberal Party Convention this past weekend. In it was this interesting snippet:
“A party that’s serious about forming the government understands that polls can impede our view of the future. We learned the most important question is not ‘what do people want today?’ but rather ‘what will people need tomorrow?’. The first question speaks to ‘followership’. The second to leadership and people want leadership,” [Dalton McGuinty] said.
A healthy democracy has at least two strong political parties. The NDP seizing power would be far worse for Canada than the Liberals regaining power one day. In that light, if you were a senior Liberal policy advisor sitting around a table and asked to provide one highly important question that the party needed to ask itself to get back in the ring as a serious contender, what would that question be?
I thought about the aforementioned challenge a long time and reflected back on something that SDA commenter ‘Sammy’ said here. A little research showed that the actual quote he referenced came from PostMedia’s reporter, Jason Fekete:
That question, from the unnamed PEI delegate, is actually quite brilliant. So my question for the Liberals to ask themselves is this:
What do we need to do to win rural ridings in Canada?
Right now, the perception of Liberals is one of arrogant, elitist urbanites who look down upon hardworking rural folks. Entirely justified IMO. Can they have an awakening of sorts and change themselves & their demeanor to be somewhat more humble and accepting of others who have different views than their own? Odds are, they can’t. But if they want to change their political fortunes anytime in the near future, they’re going to have to.
Surely the backbone of Canada, with dirt under their fingernails, will dismount their tractors and vote for Bob Rae.
Especially under the steady tutelage of Sheila. They’ve got a better chance with the legalize pot crowd.
So, essentially they got a lot of press coverage for accomplishing nothing. Typically Liberal!!!
It won’t happen of course, but here’s one way the Libs could resonate with rural Canada: Property rights. No restrictions on land use unless:
the ‘need’ is proven and owner has timely notification of the intent to restrict.
Owner can contest process in court
Owner’s legal bills are paid by gov’t
Owner receives full and timely compensation for any resulting income loss, expenses or property devaluation – as determined by a panel of peers.
More intriguing is the comment from grammar_nazi, “Ms. Copps looks like that crazy coworker you just do NOT want to talk to at the office party.” Grammar_nazi’s avatar seems to be a photo of NDP MP Ruth Ellen Brousseau. Hmmmm, if her, is this possibly another Tony Clement – like insult media moment?
Ask themselves “What does the word “Liberal” really mean?”
1) Look up the classical definition of “liberal”.
2) Become the small-government party of Canada.
3) Their centre-piece must be the protection of all the individual, God-given rights of Canadians.
4) Eliminate the pandering to self-proclaimed victims.
5) Support ethical free trade: duty and tariffs on goods coming from countries with defacto cheap slave labour–to prevent exploitation and give Canada a true, level trading field.
6) In essence, understand that Canada, except for the Annex in Toronto and a few other self-absorbed neighbourhoods, is a conservative country. This includes recent immigrants and their children.
This shift will enable the LPC to outflank the CPC on the majority so-called “right”, shift the CPC to the mushy centre, and keep the NDP as the statist-utopian fringe group.
So really, what does our Premier believe we “need” in the future? What “leadership”is he offering?
Crushing debt payments? Eco-inflation? Brownouts? Industrial decay? Sky-high energy rates? Is this what we “need”? We almost, evidently, “needed” a parallel judicial system from the 12th century. And we desperately “need” a racially based law enforcement system.
The words are nice, as always from Liberals. But we already knew that.
“Can they have an awakening of sorts and change themselves & their demeanor to be somewhat more humble and accepting of others who have different views than their own? Odds are, they can’t. But if they want to change their political fortunes anytime in the near future, they’re going to have to.”
I doubt that will ever happen as Mark Holland’s remarks yesterday suggest that this will never happen. Sorry, no link as it was on a Sun News TV item. Mark Holland exemplifies the Liberal elitist attitude.
The cartoon in this article below beautifully shows the Liberal attitude.
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2012/01/20120115-082811.html
If they put as much thought and energy into governing as they put into campaigning they’d still be in power.
The Liberals need Dalton McGuinty to lead them into oblivion, Rae will only keep them on the edge of the cliff.
Watching these so-called ‘debates’,it appears a bunch of 99%er loons have hijacked the process!
All very nice, very clean, and put in terms that won’t shock the majority of liberal supporters.
First point, if it’s a choice between conservative or NDP, that would insure the country moves further and firmly to the right, which would force the two left wing parties to merge, and inevitably one of those parties would have to water down it’s reason for being to make it happen.
Second point, the truth is, the liberals have for years had a civil war going between the left wing of the party, and the establishment blue liberal faction. After Trudeau, the left gained more control, and the establishment has ceded more policy positions with the caveat that they still control the party. Eventually, the law of diminishing returns caught up and the left now has firm control of policy since Dion took the reigns. Now they want any policy that is too far right for their liking and it’s supporters to be purged from the party. To their puzzlement, they can’t figure how Harper keeps winning and they keep losing. Fact is, that in order to challenge the conservatives for the middle ground, they will…..gasp…..have to move right on policy.
The only other option they have, if they want to increase their base, is to merge with the NDP. I’d even go so far that there are operatives within the lpc that have been working on this since Iggy was acclaimed leader.
The problem with that strategy however, is basically burning the bridge to the blue liberals….who incidentally tend to be the party members that actually donate regularly, the left not so much.
Yes, they may have united the left at that point, but at literally a higher cost.
And election campaigns need money
I am just too delighted that the Libs are flailing and out. They have been so out of touch with Canadians while depending on the lamestream media to hold them up.
I cannot offer any suggestions.
Dalton McGuinty said he has plenty of experience fighting ‘neo-conservatives’ in Ontario? Really? In Ontario?
And what’s wrong with conservativism?
Turning a party over to special interest groups is akin to polling for the ‘mood of the moment’.
As for leadership – how are the Liberals going to come up with policies and programs that are infrastructural – which is another word for ‘future-oriented’ when they have no history of focusing on infrastructure?
I don’t think that it’s simply rural Canada, though that sector is important – it’s the infrastructure for both urban and rural economies that is vital.
V65 – I don’t see the point of your outline. The CPC is already fulfilling those criteria so how could the Liberal Party move in? And remember, the Liberals aren’t going to abandon the socialists in the urban centres to the NDP.
The key political battle now, is that between the NDP and Liberals. Who will represent the left?
OT
This resolution on letting non members get a vote for leader would allow the special interest groups to still retain control of the vote even in a OMOV.
Now, with that in mind, and all the buzz about Rae getting ready to renege on his promise not to seek the leadership, it makes perfect sense that Rae would support this motion.
Anyone that is against a merger would probably be against it.
What could possibly go wrong?
Everything, if they only expect one outcome.
The media always portrays the Liberal Party of Canada as big tent, inclusive, home of new Canadians…
Yet everyone in the National Post photo is “white skinned”.
I hope at some point, the Canadian voter will be able to choose a government to “vote in” rather than having to “vote out” the current government. At some point Canadian political parties are going to have to stop waiting for the other one to screwup so they get in.
Gord
“The media always portrays the Liberal Party of Canada as big tent, inclusive, home of new Canadians… Yet everyone in the National Post photo is “white skinned”.”
Reminds me of the days when the Reform Party had most of the visible minority members in Parliament yet they were constantly accused of racism.
One main reason these thieves will never govern again, the internet. Their reliable and loyal “border collies” the Globe,CBC CTV Star etc. have gotten to old to herd, it was a good job when there was no internet, the lavish parties, slush funds to dip into, sending a slushy of cash, the Stars or CBC’s way, all for a little “hey put this or that in your next news story”. Well liberals IT IS OVER, your main slush funds have and will be dismantled, CWB gun control etc, these were all nice ways for liberals to steal above board, too bad so sad, it is over. And if Bob Rae of Sheila or baby Turdough is your best, it is over for good thank goodness. And if Gerry Ritz wants to nip all these CWB lawsuits like the one the slimy lawyer from Sask is launching, he will open the books on the Canadian Wheat Board. Then Canada will see some of the size and scope of liberal thieving over the last 40 years, Adscam Petrocan? oh it went on and on.
bartinky
“And if Bob Rae or Sheila or baby Turdough is your best, it is over”
If that’s all they’ve got, they’ve shot their bolt. If their strategy is to wait until Justin Trudeau grows up bad move. We’re still waiting for his mom to grow up.
Yesterday during the convention Justin was at the mic,and he kept on looking up at the big screen Justin. I don’t know if he was admiring himself,or wondering”who is that hot guy?”. Justin is not ready for prime time.
I think its vitally important for them to rebrand. Their name “Liberal Party of Canada” is toxic in too many parts of this country. They are controlled by the Laurention Consensus (the Desmarais’). Leave the Liberal name with Cretch and Power Corp and start over from scratch. They may not offer anything new in a different configuration but they’ll suck enough gullible progressive voters in to give them a shot. It has to happen.
I don’t feel the need to help the Liberals out by suggesting for them, what “the Liberals need to ask themselves”. Not that you’re doing just that Robert…
I’d prefer they continue to ask themselves, what can they do to muddle up the economy, how can they offend the largest ethnic group in the country… who can they tax into oblivion?
… that sort of thing. If both primarily left parties in Canada are kicked to the sidewalk, how is this bad? We’re not “on their side” anyway.
Oh and this too, if they’re going to allow all people to vote in their future conventions, they’d best be prepared for people like Alvin Greene to be their candidate. I’d vote for Alvin Greene to run for the Liberals or NDP in the next election. Heck, I’d vote twice!
Alvin Greene for Senator:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8vohv0Zcto
I love it. Dolton McQsquinty telling the convention how he turned failure into success in Ontario.
Since when or is it only the Wests Equalization grants he is referring to?
The Libs are DOOMED.
Theonly question liebrals ask is:
“How can we funnel more taxmoney to our bagmen to give to the party”
Everything a liebral does is for ‘the party’…that includes setting up useless and unwanted ‘projects’ and ‘social welfare programs’ where they appoint the administrators and select the companies involved on the basis of them kicking back part of the taxmoney they’re handed backto the lpoc.
crouton’s biggest sin is that he was caught doing it in Adscam…but that’s just the tip of the iceberg..
There are so many liebral created ‘foundations’ outside the governance of Parliament that are funded with unaccountable taxmoney that nobody even knows where they all are.
Hopefully this government exposes and removes them instead of creating their own, but power corrupts and librals are masters of corrupting so their thralls will try…
As a strategy Trudeau went to war with the West. The NEP and “Why should I sell your wheat.” Unfortunately for the Liberal Party the West has grown to the point where Quebec is irrelevant for election victories. The Conservatives made their majority being almost shut out east of the Ottawa River and it gets better with redistribution in the next election.
Rural Liberal is an oxymoron. (Liberals alone might just be morons, but that is another discussion.)
One would think that even the McGuinty’s would understand that rural concerns are important, particularly after Dalton’s October Experience in Ontario. But no. The solution will be to create more urban ridings in Ontario and Quebec while Conservatives are not paying attention. (Three additonal ridings in Onario make the difference provincially between minority and majority. Add six from Ontario and Quebec to NDP and Liberal federal numbers and figure out where the Conservative majority would be.)
Liberal thinkers (sorry for another oxy) are all urban and their fellow travellers in the media all work and play together within the GTA. Rural dirt is just the potholes in the long boring drive from Toronto to Ottawa.
What happen in rural Ontario, Quebec, and New Brunswick or Sakatchewan or Nfld, or Alberta, stays in rural………
The LIBRANOs Achilles Heel is, to put it simply, is their sole policy goal…..to get back in power and the gravy train.
The LIBRANOs haven’t for a momment any other considerations…domestic … their foreign policy is UN based.
Their pre-Trudeau success was predicated on a centrist position….the Hepburn and MacKenzie King Liberals got high-jacked by the Academic utopian lefties….
Trudeau/Cretin/Martin Liberals were merely a marriage of socialism and croney capitalism.
If CD Howe was exposed to the current LIBRANOs he would go home, take a long shower and then burn his clothes.
If the Liberals are ever to win power again they need to ask themselves this question:
When will the number of urban voters be greater than the number of rural and small town voters?
V65Magnafan at 9:00 AM, that’s not a bad platform, but snowball-hell come to mind.
Am I the only one who’s noticed that the breathless reporting by the media is a little over the top on this convention?
Haven’t they did a little investigating and found out that the party is such disarray that they have to recruit wino’s off the street to have enough people to vote?
Great comments!
Justin and sasquatch are probably the most correct.
The left-wing of the Liberal party has lost their self-awareness. They are so self-righteous that they don’t even realize they’re leftists.
They think they’re centrists. That’s why they’re so confused when they keep losing elections.
What Harper did with the Alliance/PC merger was to moderate the stridency within conservative ideology.
By doing so, he actually did move to the real centre.
Also, by doing so, he redefined where “conservatism” rested on the political spectrum.
Paul Martin hurling himself to the left in order to get the NDP’ers to “lend us your vote”, was in hindsight the biggest campaign mistake he could make. They have never recovered.
They may never recover.
sasquatch and jeff, exactly.
The fact that the Liberals and NDP are contemplating a merger indicates just how far left the Liberals have gone.
perhaps there might yet be a massive rise in the liebral ranks, for voting day anyway, I’d hate to see someone that’s unelectable win…again 😉
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2012/01/14/19245256.html
Liberals to allow non-members to vote for party leader
OTTAWA — Non-party members can now vote for the next leader of the Liberal Party, according to new rules etched out in the party’s constitution.
Liberals gathered in Ottawa for the party’s biennial convention voted Saturday to amend the Grit constitution. The new rules, seen as fundamental changes, create a category of Liberal called a “supporter.”
Supporters will not be required to pay membership fees like full-fledged party members, but they will be able to participate in a vote to name the next party leader in 2013.
You KNOW it’s so over,when cbc is NOT covering Mike Crawley’s acceptance speech live!
Just caught “Comrade Rae” declaring the Lieberal Convention closed. Even “Lizzie Mae” was there, on stage, in the background. “Bobbie Obama” ‘s “hope & change” slogan is “imagine & make it happen”. What a bunch of A$$hats !!
This is better than the Comedy Channel but that’s not saying much!
LPC Convention = Gong Show.
I think it’s the Gone Show.
The meaningless of the Liberals is the result of the Conservatives being in power, which erodes the Liberals from both left and right. If the Conservatives win the next election, the Liberals will erode to permanent third party status, just like the British Liberals since 1923.
Sasquatch’s points are well taken. V65Magnafan’s suggestions are also good. Margaret Wente had some other reasonable suggestions.
I do however agree with several other comments here to the effect that it is’t going to be the present Liberal Party that implements them.
In their own minds (if I may use that expression) they are still the Natural Governing Party, and they are as smug and arrogant as ever.
Good. Let them think that. Sooner or later they will get tired of it all.
Nothing is eternal. The old pre-Pearson Liberals provided good government, with an effective balance between public sector and private sector.
The old PCs gave us Diefenbaker (may his name be forever cursed) and the obscene Mulroney.
A post-PMSH Conservative party may not prove very attractive. A new centrist-left-tinged party might be much better.
“The future’s not ours to see, que sera, sera”.
The fact that the Liberals and NDP are contemplating a merger indicates just how far left the Liberals have gone.
Posted by: Ken (Kulak) at January 15, 2012 12:28 PM
Didn’t a Liberal PM once say that the New Democrats were Liberals … in a hurry?
Question:
What will be the next fashionable public policy rage which will deftly disguise looting and domestic/global redistribution (North/South dialogue; saving the planet; the just society; early government child care, etc. etc. etc.).
Question: What do we have to do to get a talented and principled man like Frank McKenna back in the fold?
This column from outgoing Liberal Party president, Alfred Apps, is interesting in that it is completely meaningless and empty of REAL ideas. Hmmmm, much like a typical Liberal!
Relevantly random thoughts:
* If one had just arrived from Mars and had ZERO knowledge or experience of Dalton McGuinty’s PERFORMANCE as Premier of Ontario, you’d say: “Wow! Yes! Based on THAT quote HE should be the leader!” …and I hope thousand of Liberals agree!
* My enemies enemies are my friends. Conservatives need to find ways to keep the Liberals and NDP at each other’s throats for as many more years as possible.
* “Infrastructure projects”? … you mean like a pipeline from the oil sands to the Pacific? And maybe another one all the way to the Maritimes? … how about 3 or 4 major NEW oil refineries? … I’m sure Liberals would be fine with granting permits for all such ‘carbon-based energy supporting’ infrastructure! No, by “infrastruture” THEY mean more schools (for declining enrollments), more libraries (for unread ink-on-paper books), more “community centers” (for minorities & the elderly) and “early childhood education centers” (for the unionized warehousing of infants & toddlers), more “light rapid transit” (aka streetcars) and “high speed rail” (aka empty passenger trains).
* Canada’s “legal industrial complex” has long been the deeply imbedded pilings supporting the weight of the LPC, just as ‘Big Labour’ has been for the NDP. To the extent Conservatives can use their majority to eliminate taxpayer funded legal frivolities and paper-pushing, they will be able to defund what remains of the financial support of the LPC.
* I can’t decide which new Liberal ‘permanent’ leader would make me more giddy – Bob Rae? Dalton McGuinity? Justin Trudeau? … I start giggling just imagining ANY of them in a national campaign against Harper!
As the last Hippie breaths his or her last. That will be the end of these posers.
Da turd party might have a conveniently short memory, luckily the electorate does not.
They are the party of libranos, graft, turdeau, the party of university social science graduates who rely on government for jobs. In short the party of parasites.
Let the dippers self destruct in Quebec and give us ten years of conservative rule so they can rid government of all turdeaus malevolent ideas.
Interesting and informative to compare the comments here with a similar leftist blog. On both sides of the political fence those are the people who are most likely to vote in any election. The name-calling hate-driven comments on both sides are strikingly similar both in the invective used and the lack of meaningful intelligent content. Similar personalities on opposite ends of the political spectrum, and they pretty much cancel each other out when it comes time to vote.
It’s encouraging that the content and issue driven comments that get beyond shallow personalities and name-calling are much better here than there. The left is still pushing ‘were very intelligent and we know what’s best for Canada’ i.e. Ontario and Quebec. The intelligent, issue oriented comments here have a much better grasp of what Canada has to do to advance into the future with strong support for agriculture and resource based industry. The left is still trying to create a socialist urban elitist utopia, supported of course by the “hard working but not very smart” people West of Ontario. Hopefully the West based conservative reality will grow, prosper, and continue to dominate Canadian politics for some time to come.
How elections turn out is determined by the votes from that huge population of disinterested, middle of the road Canadians who basically ignore politics unless an issue affects then directly or there’s an election campaign. If Harper’s government can continue to keep the economy healthy, with people holding on to their jobs to keep a roof over heads and food on the table, and not pissing-off too many coherent groups, then we’ve got a good chance of keeping a conservative majority. The leftists don’t have much of a chance unless there’s a growing number of Canadians who are unhappy with what’s happening in their lives, which of course they will blame on the government in power and vote for change.
@ V65Magnafan at January 15, 2012 9:00 AM
You have touched on a key to the future of the Liberal party in the recognition of the drift from the classical Liberal, what we would recognize today as more like Libertarian.
Political power and Economic power are two different things, and we can’t just use “Left” and “Right” to describe both. A Conservative government on the Right economically could still theoretically be authoritarian in terms of political power. This is particularly true if all opposition is divided on the Left over many elections. Power corrupts.
I think the Liberal Party brand is doomed and tarnished beyond redemption and the next election will see them without official party status. Then the time will be right for a Libertarian party to arise from the Liberal ashes and challenge the Conservatives. Such a party could differ very little from the Conservatives on economic issues, but on matters of Individual-versus-State would side with the Individual.
A party like that could draw voters away from a much-diminished Liberal party as well as from the Conservatives. Let the NDP and the Bloc Quebecois (don’t count them out yet) have the parasite class.
I know, it isn’t much advice for them, but economic reality will hit hard in the next few years. We can’t afford all the social programs we have right now, and some will have to be scaled back. More importantly, we’re going to have to vastly reduce the government payroll, through the ending of programs and subsidies. There’s less and less room for graft, and the media has sharply changed.
With every country that goes bankrupt under the weight of its social programs, the Left becomes more and more discredited. If the goal is power for power’s sake, the only way for the Liberals to regain that is to end the party and start anew, flanking the Conservatives on social issues such as property rights.
PET Cemetery Report.
Meet Liberal Citoyen Kyoto Dionky’s Green Shaft Redux.
Meet Red-Green Crawley.
What is the end result?
Same old, same old: Neo-TO Party, a McGuinty coup.
…-
“Mike Crawley and International Power leave community in tatters
Posted on 11/12/2011
Mike Crawley, President and CEO of International Power Canada, Inc. (formally AIM Powergen) is also recently resigned President of the Federal Liberal Party (Ontario). To date, this company has refused to help any of the residents who are seriously suffering in the Erie Shores complex.”
http://ontario-wind-resistance.org/2011/11/12/mike-crawley-walks-away-from-damaged-caused/
…-
“McGuinty could benefit from his brother Dalton’s powerful, well-financed machine, which, not coincidentally, Crawley used to run.”
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Maher+Liberal+party+starting+resemble/5999517/story.html
Not so, oldfart. The meaningless of the Liberals is that they have no meaningful policy choices to offer Canadians. They have not in fact stood for much of anything since their rejection of their own Red Book in the early 1990s.
And increasingly Canadians are aware that the Liberals don’t in fact stand for anything any more, which is why their representation in the House has shrunk in every one of the last four national elections.
I’m not concerned about McGuinty becoming federal Liberal leader. Provincial premiers have never done well as national party leaders; they’re too heavily identified with one province and always bring too much baggage to the table. Selecting McGuinty would likely be the end of them.
I guess now that the “ngp” has decided that they want to have “supporters” voting for their leader, they will also want the elections act changed so that EC will keep track of registered supporters.
To which one has to ask the question, why should anyone have to register their voting intentions?
It sounds like a back door attempt by the liberals to get some of the costs of a leadership convention covered by tax payer funding.
If they want to open up the operation of their party to non members, I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with using that as an excuse to get tax dollars into the party coffers. They learned nothing from adscam.
Liberals and NDP are dead parties walking. The next opposition party will evolve to the right of the PC’s.