45 Replies to “The Decline And Fall Of The American Empire”

  2. The Army prides itself in being a diverse organization
    ~Panetta
    What exactly is there in diversity in and of itself to be so proud about, and what is there about the concepts of “uniform” and “team” that you do not comprehend?
    They should concentrate a little harder on what it means to be proud of actually winning wars and thereby gaining real peace.

  4. From Ides of Marc in the comments:
    This subject was ruled on by the Supreme Court in 1986, Goldman vs. Weinberger. The Court said that…. “[W]hen evaluating whether military needs justify a particular restriction on religiously-motivated conduct, courts must give great deference to the professional judgment of military authorities concerning the relative importance of a particular military interest. ” This case resolved around a Jewish Air Force Officer, an Orthodox Jew, who was told he could not wear a scull cap, a yarmalka. The Court was recognizing that…. “The purpose of the military and its need to foster cohesiveness were regarded as appropriate justifications to restrict the religious rights of individuals.”
    This matter has been settled by the highest court in the land. What Panetta has done flaunts the Rule of Law

  5. Pannetta is not flaunty the Rule of law, he’s just not using a power the SCOTUS decided he has. And he’s right-there’s no rational reason to ban the hijab or the turban or Yarmulke in training.

  6. Whatever happened to prohibiting religious symbols in the military? Who the eff does this Sheik Barack Hussein Obama guy think he is anyhow?

  8. I always thought the American “melting pot” was far superior to the Canadaian multiculture system. Looks like they have some hard lessons to learn. Another venture into social engineering that will bite them in the ass.

  9. This relates to JROTC, not the wider Army or ROTC at universities. The uniform standards for JROTC are rarely strictly enforced. Many of the cadets do not conform to military weight standards, and military haircuts are optional.
    Will this lead to changes in ROTC and the Army? Maybe. But the Army’s uniform and other standards have been stodgy for decades. The Navy is more permissive. Special Operations Forces makes up their own rules. Head scarves in dress uniform are no big deal. There is nothing inconsistent with having a camouflaged scarf for the field. When it’s dusty we.wear those anyway.
    I’m more concerned about why Major Nidal Hassan is not dead yet, or at least convicted of murder.

  13. “… The Army prides itself in being a diverse organization”.
    Diversity is only an asset when rock-solid discipline is already in place. When that precondition is assured, yes, having Muslims or Latinos or Asians in the military is just as important, ifnotmoreso, than in WW2.

  14. I wore that head dress in Vietnam.
    Put your head in a fine looking woman’s silk stocking.
    Tie it up with a rubber band.
    It protects you from heat, dust,
    and reminds you what you are fighting for..
    long live the poon head jab..

  16. When will people learn? The hijab is NOT a religious symbol, it is a cultural one, and is therefore not protected by any freedom of religion law.

  17. libertariankneejerkreaction said: “And he’s right-there’s no rational reason to ban the hijab or the turban or Yarmulke in training.”
    I can think of two right off the top of my head.
    1) Helmets.
    2) Peripheral vision.
    Turbans and yarmulkes are not an issue with peripheral vision, but the hijab absolutely is. You want to take 20 women with blinders to the range? I’d run a mile from that fiasco.
    You train the way you fight because you fight the way you’ve been trained. If your training was cushy, you’re gonna die.
    Then there’s the elusive, kind of vague “unit cohesion” issue, which in training can be boiled down to “You are not a Special Snowflake, unique and precious, free to express your inner potential! You are a SOLDIER and you follow ORDERS!” Usually delivered by a leather-lunged sergeant “Full Metal Jacket” style.
    Its difficult to impress upon a young woman that she is as un-unique and un-precious as a round of ammunition when you’re busy catering to her every demand 24/7.
    Now try to picture some 20 year old girl lieutenant -in a hijab- giving orders to gnarly old senior non-coms on their fourth tour. That’s going to work well.

  19. At our Remembrance Ceremony at the East York Community centre the army cadets had several girls wearing hijabs. I thought this was terrible as I am aware these are not religious garb but they are making a political statement that we are muslims and your rules and regulations don’t apply to us. The word “uniform” obviously means nothing.
    Take a walk into the East York Plaza and you would think you have entered the middle east with a greater percentage of people wearing muslim clothes every day. Most women wear the hijab with many in the niqab. This is across the road from a public school that is now a mosque on Fridays.

  20. libertariansaresmarter simply doesn’t accept that there’s a problem with the encroachment of sharia law in the West. So his conclusion is understandable.
    There are now 85 sharia law courts in the UK. He probably doesn’t think a parallel legal system is a problem.
    Yes, The Phantom, his libertarianism is of the paint-by-numbers knee-jerk variety. I strongly suspect he’s a “young pup” in libertarian training wheels.
    The issue isn’t the garment itself and The Phantom’s point about peripheal vision is nonsense.
    The issue is the infiltration of a hostile, toxic, murderous, totalitarian ideology which openly and proudly announces its desire to destroy western civilization from within.
    No amount of dhimmi deference to it or enslavement to a doctrinaire libertarianism changes that FACT.

  21. … moreover, libertariansaresmarter probably doesn’t understand the full extent of the patriarchal misogynist coercion behind this islamic attire.
    I’m thinking of that female professor that Brian Lilley interviewed on the subject of banning face-covering in those citizenship courts. She furiously spitted out that the government didn’t take the time to “ask the women” as if they’d risk assault, dismembership and death giving an honest answer in a craven dhimmi country that celebrates diversity over survival.

  22. Well, we know what a disaster cultural head gear has been in the past, what with the Gurkhas and Sihks and all in the British forces. And of course, allowing Sikh members of the RCMP to wear turbans has just lead to rampant sexual harassment of female members and unnecessary tasering of civilians… Oh, wait…

  23. The only good thing about this bit of stupidity is that at least we will be able to identify them my their race and or religion. When the shit hits the fan one day, they will be ‘target ready’.
    I suggest don’t let any muslims whatsoever in the military … they simply CANNOT BE TRUSTED.

  24. I agree with Ellie in T.O. And thanks to WalterF for that information.
    It seems you could make the argument that allowing the hijab is a concession for sharia law and not one for religious expression.
    http://islam-watch.org/MAsghar/Quran-on-Hijab-or-Veil.htm
    “There is no provision in the Quran that requires Muslim women to wear headscarf when they are outside of their homes. It is a concept, which European Muslim women had borrowed from Christian nuns. It is not Islamic; therefore, has no Islamic value or importance.”

  25. Me No Dhimmi said: “The issue isn’t the garment itself and The Phantom’s point about peripheal vision is nonsense.”
    Dude, please. Drape a dishtowel over your head and see what happens to your peripheral vision. Now try to stick a helmet over it. Gives a whole new meaning to the term “tunnel vision”.
    How much time do you want to allot your trainees to screw around with hairpins so they can see out the sides?
    Bottom line, if your potential trainee is more concerned about religious/cultural issues than getting with damn program and being the best Kill People And Break Things MF-er they can be, you don’t want them in your all-volunteer military.
    I’ve said that about the Sikhs since day one of the turban unpleasantness, and it applies to all. Welcome to Canada, this is how we do it here, there’s the door if you don’t like it.
    The reason we have these asinine issues is NOT IMMIGRANTS. They would join up and ditch the headgear if that was the only option. Or not, and that would be fine.
    No, the problem is the Liberal Party of Canada and its ongoing Trudeaupian campaign to destroy Canadian/British tradition and install itself as ruler-in-perpetuity. Likewise in the USA the problem is vote-buying behavior of the cultural Left.
    That’s a powerful distinction you need to get, MND. People demand all kinds of insane sh1t from government all day every day. That’s not the problem. The problem is the morons in government who say “Yes” hoping to get a vote from the multi-culti goodness of it all.

  26. I looked at Black Mamba’s picture of a Hijab and see no reason it should cause tunnel vision. You must have your garment’s confused Phantom.
    The prospect of Sharia in North America is simply preposterous and not worth talking about. These ‘Sharia courts’ of the UK seem to be enforcing a set of voluntary agreements based on Sharia, and it exists to the point where it doesn’t conflict with the actual law. If that’s what it is, then they have every right to play ‘Sharia-make-believe’. I don’t really care all that much about Europe I hope their culture gets destroyed. Mild Islamism would be an improvement over the current welfare state Borg complex. But I digress.

  27. speaking as a long-time serviceman….
    BINGO !!
    You’re paid to defend democracy, not practice it.

  29. “The purpose of the military and its need to foster cohesiveness were regarded as appropriate justifications to restrict the religious rights of individuals.”
    That IS the line in the sand.
    The military of most nations, has long held to the notion of UNIFORMs for many reasons….not just so you know who to shoot.
    Even nudists stress the virtue of uniformity in nudity……
    It has long been established that individual loyalty is stronger to the unit/comrades than to ocncepts of patriotism or ideology.
    That said, I acknowledge that one of the problems involved in arctic/winter warfare is the trade-off between protection from the elements and visibility….operating weapons with heavy gloves.
    However, I have noted the anti-flash hoods worn by Naval turret crew and coastal artillery…is a dead wringer to the hijab….

  30. The Phantom:
    Dude I agree with your points.
    However, it’s not the central issue.
    The central issue is: is drip drip drip drip drip drip concession concession concession … Islamic infiltration of all our institutions including the military.
    Are you aware that the Marines — the Marines!!! — in Afghanistan are tasked with the mission of placing urinals in the correct position so that the soldiers are not micturating (pi&&ing) in the direction of Mecca!
    Over and over again: the West keeps thinking that if we make just one more concession it’ll click: the Islamists will think we’re real, real nice and demur and call off the jihad.

  31. These ‘Sharia courts’ of the UK seem to be enforcing a set of voluntary agreements based on Sharia.
    Yeah, right libertariansaresmarter. Voluntary as in: “volunteer to do this or we keeel you”. Tho I note your careful use of the weasel word “seem”.
    Have you not heard of the new trend in Turkey?
    Honour suicides: you see, there’s now heavier punishment for honour-killing. No prob! “Persuade” the victim to “vounteer” to kill herself.
    You are also aware, no doubt, of those volunteer women suicide bombers in Gaza/West Bank.
    Please, please libertariansaresmarter: don’t fall into the delusional idea that “it can’t happen here”.

  32. Bemused, thanks. Nobody ever cut me an inch of Special Snowflake slack in my (extremely brief) militia career, I can’t imagine a decent reason to cut Muslim chicks any. Or white chicks for that matter, they should all have to hump the FN-FAL all over Petawawa in the summer heat the same as I did. Separates the girls from the Valkyries.
    Libertariantryingtowiggleout said: “You must have your garment’s confused Phantom.”
    Do you live in an igloo, that you’ve never seen one of these idiot women driving with the thing on their head? Try this: //jilbab-ayuu.blogspot.com/2011/05/hijab-and-fashion-image.html
    Its a cloth wrapped around your melon. Fine while you’re walking around doing nothing exciting. Maybe not so fine if you have to do a fast check-six to make sure nobody’s going to back-shoot you. Or while running. Or fighting.
    Or shooting. Hearing protection? Scarf’s in the way of the earmuffs. Personally I find even a hat gets in the way, I put my ball-cap on backward when I use a scope.
    Also not great for checking the left rear to see if you can change lanes. Or is there a huge black pickup truck with The Phantom in it occupying that spot? She can’t tell, because the head scarf doesn’t turn when she turns her head, so she can’t see the giant thing waiting to eat her frickin’ little Honda. Hijabs make Toronto traffic a lot more interesting than it used to be.
    Sorry if basic ergonomic facts upset your political views, but if you wrap a towel around your head and down your neck, it-does-not-turn with you.

  33. The Phantom / Bemused.
    For the record, I heartily and unequivocally approve of everything you say at 1:01 beginning with:
    Bottom line, if your potential trainee is more concerned about religious/cultural issues
    All I meant to say was that the discussion about the material aspects of the garment is not germane as you yourself explain in this later post!

  34. Won’t it be exciting to see American Jewish soldiers in full Jewish religious regalia fighting side by side their fellow Muslim hajab wearing troops in Afghanistan?

  35. Wasn’t a yarmulke a signal telling the tough kids who to beat up were the kid not carrying a violin case. I can’t imagine why someone moves here to live as a non-conformist when there are dozens of countries that would think bagged chicks are cool. I guess that there is one advantage to keeping their daughters unattractive and uncomfortable. It saves having to kill them later.

  36. The argument that a hijab is cultural, not religious, bears some weight. A yarmulka doesn’t interfere with the wearing ofilitary headgear.
    A helmet can (and often is) worn over a scarf.
    Peripheral vision is an irrelevant consideration. The standard Vortex rain jacket blocks peripheral vision too. The protective mask limits peripheral vision even more. The Army standard of shaving revolves around the proper seal of a protective mask as well as field hygeine, but it has also become a dogmatic rule of “military appearance.” We’ve had arguments over mustache width for decades. If a shaved head is conducive to a military function, note well that females in the US Army are prohibited from shaving their heads.
    Anyone who has served in the military for a good number of years that ANYTHING the military does as custom is rooted in some continuing practical purpose. Uniformity and conformity is the ultimate fall back position for mindless automatons.
    This is the same Army that authorizes the wear of cold weather clothing by looking at a calendar instead of a thermometer.
    Again, this is JROTC – a minute percentage of these kids ever join the military. In fact, it is a common way for fat kids to avoid physical education classes. Not all JROTC units do much physical training. It is billed as “leadership” education and has ZERO military components to it. JROTC cadets don’t learn battle drills or tactics. The most military things they do are wear uniforms, march, and do flag ceremonies. All these tactical considerations people are citing are nonsense.

  37. “The argument that a hijab is cultural, not religious, bears some weight.”
    Who cares? It’s not Canada’s obligation to take up koranic exegesis. Ripping out beating human hearts was an Aztec religious and cultural thingy. Muslims can conform or sod off.

  38. the West keeps thinking that if we make just one more concession it’ll click: the Islamists will think we’re real, real nice and demur and call off the jihad.
    What the multiculturalist do-gooders fail to realize is that one of the basic tenets of jihad is to use the enemy’s weaknesses against them. Eurabia should be a dire warning, not something to emulate.

  39. It is billed as “leadership” education and has ZERO military components to it.
    ~Reginald
    It is getting the foot in the door.
    The basis of a future(why can’t I wear a hijab in the U.S. Army, I put in all this time at JROTC and was led to believe it would help my induction etc.) lawsuit and known as a precedent.
    To be sure, this is a wedge issue, the erosion of tradition and what came before.
    Just as the hijab is political, insistence on wearing it is pushing for a political win.

  40. @Oz
    Sure, everyone fears the slippery slope, but this slope isn’t slippery enough. Despite the uniforms, the retired military instructors, and a slight advantage at gaining an ROTC scholarship, JROTC is far removed from military indoctrination.
    The US military is almost as conservative as the Catholic church. There is no way a change in JROTC will percolate up to the Army. If Panetta has a mind to change the military, he is going to have an army of congressmen, senators, and generals in his way. There is no such concern to protect the frontier. I’m not saying this isn’t a goal of Panetta and Obama. I’m just saying the resistance will be more significant.
    To put it succinctly, this is about as significant as the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts making these policy changes.

  41. Reginald said: “To put it succinctly, this is about as significant as the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts making these policy changes.”
    Untrue sir. Scouting is a private venture, they can do pretty much anything they want. They can also be sued out of business for -not- doing things. Witness the gay Scouts circus still parading its way through the US courts.
    JROTC otoh is a -military- affair paid for and controlled by the US government. To the extent it serves any purpose at all, its supposed to introduce young people to the Officer Corps of the US military. Its like the Air Cadets in Canada. Air Cadets wear the uniform. That’s part of military tradition etc.as outlined above. They also do drill and fly gliders etc. so having girls in there with their heads wrapped up as part of the uniform would be a bad thing. Common sense, right?
    Reginald also said: “Peripheral vision is an irrelevant consideration.”
    Sir, you can’t say things like that and expect to be taken seriously. Why don’t we take blind people in the military? Even in basic parade drill peripheral vision is important. How are the kids supposed to maintain spacing if they can’t see the kid next to them without turning their head and holding back the scarf?
    Me No Dhimmi said: “Over and over again: the West keeps thinking that if we make just one more concession it’ll click: the Islamists will think we’re real, real nice and demur and call off the jihad.”
    I agree with you that there are many Useful Idiots out there pushing the “don’t make them mad!” argument. But really, actual Liberal politicians like Dalton McGuinty and Iggy Ignatief don’t -believe- that. They say it, but they say it as a pious PC slander against the Conservatives because that’s all they’ve got left to work with. They are -pretending-, and I think that’s an important distinction to keep making.
    So when you see some item like this JROTC hijab thing, or the RCMP turban thing, or even women in forward areas for that matter, what you are looking at is not Western Civilization rotting. You’re looking at an election year sop from Lefty politicians hoping to get donations and votes from it. This “tolerance” movement has no support outside rich liberal enclaves in the USA, and is being pushed entirely by cynical @ssh0les who think they will gain power from supporting it and who don’t care how much damage it causes.
    Just remember who the real enemy is, or you’ll waste your time on a bunch of worthless, illiterate hillbillies from Pakistan. They don’t matter, and they CAN’T DO ANYTHING. Who matters is the party catering to their whining.
    As in, it would be worth finding out -exactly- who it was that gave the order for the hijab thing in the JROTC, and make that guy infamous and unemployable. Find out who his political backers are and make THEM infamous too.
    Do that a couple hundred times every year, and this sh1t might stop.

  42. @ The Phantom
    Jeez….you are being far too logical. Keep this up and you might hurt someones feelings and we know that’s what started this in the first place.

  43. Hey, what about me? I’m a Findularian, and my religion requires that I wear the strap-on GIANT COCK OF FINDULA prominently displayed at all times…

  44. @ mojo
    I’m sure your countrymen are all represented in the pride parade. Do the women wear them too?

  45. Phantom, I am just a 20 year Army retiree who taught ROTC in his final three years and was responsible for inspecting JROTC units. So what the Hell would I know about the funding, purpose, goals, training, and uniform standards of JROTC?
    It is you, sir, who cannot be taken seriously because you’re talking out of your fourth point of contact. The objection based on peripheral vision is just plain ignorant noise making. “Uniformity” is a stronger argument than that, and uniformity is, in my view, of little substance. The Army stresses uniformity to the point of making everyone uniformly stupid.

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