Prime Minister v. President:
…
Harper appeared to marvel at just how tied an American president’s hands are, not just by constitutional checks and balances, but with bureaucrats, cabinet secretaries and senior advisors all weighing in to counter or contradict actions a president may wish to take. A Canadian prime minister with a majority and cabinet government has much more room to act, he said…”
Actually I do wish our system was more like theirs.
I agree with Allan. The PMO has far too much power in our government, which consistently leads to arrogance, lies and abuse. Witness Trudeau, Mulroney, Chretien and now Harper…
“leads to arrogance, lies and abuse. Witness Trudeau, Mulroney, Chretien and now Harper…”
Just a little drive by smear stated as a fact?
Please give an example of Harper’s arrogance, lies or abuse.
It’s the classic case of not being able to “have your cake and eat it too”. In our parliamentary system, the downside of concentrating all the power in one party is that for every Steve Harper or Mike Harris, we get a Bob Rae or a Dull-tone, who can be equally unconstrained, with, as we have seen, disastrous results. I’ve heard many intelligent friends from both sides of the spectrum say their preferred outcome in Canadian elections is a Conservative minority.
I’ve mentioned here before that from a control system point of view, the American political system is awfully good. In Canada, we sample the population once every 4-5 years, and the die is cast. In the US, they elect all of the House every two years, the Prez every four, and one third of the Senate every two years. The House can swing in two years from Obama-love to hot beverage get togethers. Ignoring death, they get a new Prez every 4 or 8 years. Meanwhile, the slowly changing Senate provides what control theorists would refer to as “damping”, as it is not near as subject to the flavour of the day as the House.
The downside for America is it takes a long time to change the boat’s direction, unless you get the rare trifecta of one party controlling all three elected posts, which still needs to have a president who is trusted by, and can communicate with, the people. Reagan was able to do it; Bambam clearly hasn’t.
I would like to see MP’s allowed more independence and free votes (as long as they were consistent with the platform upon which they were elected). That way, the MP could really represent his/her constituents.
but…but…crouton’s 38.5% majority was so much better than harper’s 39.6% majority…at least to the liebrals…therefore, a liebral can pass anything, even with his MP’s crying while they’re forced to stand for it, while Harper is supposed to pass only the things that the left wants since he doesn’t have a ‘real’ majority.
Sorry, moonbats, you don’t get to ram your legislative lunacy through anymore and it’s long past time to fix what you did.
All things considered… this is the most fun I’ve had also, regarding politics that is. I feel like a kid with a needle in a room full of Progressive balloons.
Cheers to 2011!
djb- what arrogance, lies and abuse has been carried out by Harper? Please provide specific examples.
I like the American system of checks and balances, and think that it is easier to change course there than in Canada. After all, consider how long it’s taken for us to deal with the gun registry, the CWB, etc..
That’s because policies and legislation are linked, not to the nation as a whole but to political parties, and whichever party is in power, controls and maintains the legislation.
The US has three sections of govt, and each has their own separate powers, while ours has, de facto, only the legislative House. The US House controls money – and the Senate doesn’t. That’s important.
Totally agree with you Indiana Homez. Liberal heads exploding day after day. It’s never been a better time to be a conservative in this country.
Among it’s many flaws the US has it’s supreme court on equal footing to the other branches. I think our system where parliament is supreme is much better.
The backbench MP’s fron the PM’s party SHOULD be the check on the Privy Council, i.e. the public cannot vote against the Government until 2015 but the backbench can vote against the Government tonight at 10PM! All major parties have declawed this check by a) requiring the party leader to sign a candidate’s nomination papers, b) placing election spending constraints on individual candidates for Parliament and finally c) placing fund raising restraints on individual candidates.
A candidate is now completely beholden to The Party Central Leadership for access to the troops and treasury to run a modern political campaign. If an MP does not toe the line he/she can forget about being nominated, funded or supplied campaign workers in the next election.
Of course, all this only matters if the MP wants to seek re-election. MP’s with real careers outside of politics can always return to the plow if they do not receive the blessings of the Party Bosses.
All these years and I’ve missed Harper’s arrogance. I didn’t miss Trudeau’s, Mulroney’s and Chretien’s arrogance which was pretty much in your face. I really don’t get the feeling that Harper sees himself as self-important but that could be me.
I Agree w Allan.
A cons majority under Harper is starting to look real good, but how long will it last? Jubby Trudeau is just around teh corner…
Indiana Homez, thanks for popping that ballon full of wheat, and that one full of CO2 credits. That CBC balloon might be out of reach, so get a stepladder.
We need electoral reform in this Country desperately.
No I don’t want those pizza parliaments vote by percentage Marxist inventions either. Recall with more freedom for back bencher’s. An elected Equal Senate that is voted in between elections. Lower judicial posts elected. A system of rules that vets Supreme Court Judges with politics as a side issue , competence as the standard. A Charter of rights that has a bill of Individual rights that supersedes the State collectivist conventions.
Fixed elections with some leeway.
Set terms of governance, for all Members of Government. More Nation wide referendums on important issues. The end of the HRC’s.
Heads of bureaucracies moved around. Having to take oaths as well to the Country & Constitution. With teeth if abrogated.
And of course we always have the MSM to keep conservatives in check.
“Please give an example of Harper’s arrogance, lies or abuse.”
doowleb at December 20, 2011 4:55 PM
Three off the top of my head…
His pre-eleection promise to Saskatchewan to exclude non-renewable resource revenue from the equalization formula was a blatant lie. It cost the province hundreds of millions.
His denial that he ever considered an alliance with the Bloc to unseat the Liberals. Lie.
His promise to extend the Veterans Independence Program to ALL widows of WWII and Korean War veterans. Lie.
His brushing off of the crap pulled by his ministers like McKay and Clement is the height of arrogance.
Not a drive-by or a smear. I’ve consistently voted Conservative except for last election, when I voted against the candidate in my riding, Brad Trost, rather than the CPC. But to claim Harper and every other PM hasn’t deliberately lied to Canadians is hopelessly naive on your part.
james “Among it’s many flaws the US has it’s supreme court on equal footing to the other branches. I think our system where parliament is supreme is much better.”
I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Canada’s Supreme Court is supreme in all judicial matters while the US Supreme Court is only supreme in federal and constitutional matters. As far as branches of government go, they are the same.
The thing that plagues both systems is the political elite: career politicians – sociopaths to the core – who will do anything, say anything, to achieve and retain power.
It is the prospect of re-election that makes their goals quite different (and usually antithetical) from yours and mine.
Makes a fellow wonder if perhaps some combination of a jury selection system with term limits might be a better way to select our politicians.
djb “His brushing off of the crap pulled by his ministers like McKay and Clement is the height of arrogance.”
In case you haven’t noticed the media seems to be stalking McKay coming up with ancient stuff. If you want to know what excessive use of the Airbuses looks like you would have to go back to the liberal regime where they were used a multiple of today’s use. Are you angry?
Nope scar “the notwithstanding clause” is what makes parliament supreme in this country. Parliament can over rule the supreme court and that’s how it should be.
djb – Harper never set up an alliance with the Bloc to unseat the Liberals – i.e., did not set up a COALITION. The coalition, a signed agreement, of the NDP, Liberals, Bloc – to unseat the CPC was unethical.
For the opposition CPC and the Bloc to vote, together, against the Liberal govt, is a valid parliamentary act – and is not an example of lies, arrogance or abuse.
Your examples of Clement and McKay are, to you, actions of arrogance. To others, they are not.
As for your ‘lies ‘ – I’d need quotations to accept your view that they are lies.
Specifically – what was the date and quote re Sask. non-renewable resources, and the estimated loss of ‘hundreds of millions’.
Also – the veteran’s data reference would be useful.
Scar at December 20, 2011 5:53 PM:
If you read my original comment you will note that both Lib and Cons PMs are in the list…
There seem to be a lot of posters here that would cheerfully eat sh*t sandwiches if the bread had a Conservative logo toasted on the top slice.
I prefer our system to theirs. We don’t need gridlock or the pork attached to every bill down there.
having been in the Airforce at the time, I saw firsthand truedough’s and crouton’s continual tieup of resources to feed their egos.
We had a grand total of 5 707’s.
One was usually in for scheduled inspections.
One was usually in for unscheduled maintenance
One had a VIP module installed
Another was a backup for that one
leaving one to shuttle all Armed Forces personnel around the world and provide air-to-air refuelling capability…and it was usually retasked if one of the VIP jets called in sick.
Then add in the Argus/Auroras on hot standby with SAR packages and the spares for those…usually resulting in cancelled training/sovereignty patrol/SAR missions.
We really need the equivalent of an “RCAF One” for our PM, no matter who it is, in order to free up other resources by having a dedicated VIP a/c that would project our country’s name and inject a little esprit de corps in the RCAF.
Mulroney saw that and tried to provide it but the liebrals lied about what it was in order to win votes from people who don’t know any better and ended up costing the country a lot more by not using it.
Then again, even truedough didn’t run out and buy brand new jets after a minor malfunction on one he hapened to be riding in…unlike crouton the cowardly…hence our brand new Challengers, the only new thing he bought for the military while he was in office…and completely unnecessary since we already had plenty of them.
Yeah, I smell a sh!t sandwich all right, and it’s name is djb.
“I’ve consistently voted Conservative except for last election…”
No doubt the biggest lie in this entire thread.
Methinks I detect a seriously dissapointed Leftie over their rather interesting year in 2011.
Good post KevinB.
The thing that plagues both systems is the political elite: career politicians – sociopaths to the core – who will do anything, say anything, to achieve and retain power.It is the prospect of re-election that makes their goals quite different (and usually antithetical) from yours and mine.
Posted by: Jamie MacMaster at December 20, 2011 5:46 PM
Yup, except I prefer the harder term, “psychopath”. A psychopath does not necessarily wield a chainsaw nor kill women in motel showers!
Which is why I’ve come to the conclusion that term limits are the answer: ONE. Perhaps this might get us a bit closer to the ideal of citizen legislators and reduce the attractiveness of public office to psychopaths.
The downside of the frequent elections referred to in KevinB’s post is that US pols are in continuous campaign mode.
Harper may applaud the Canadian electorate’s demand for accountability with regards to the corrupt band chiefs but I would like to see some backbone (for one). When is Canada going to stop trading with China? Are we going to withhold oil from that octopus and give it, instead, to Japan and South Korea?
I second Revnant Dream’s proposals.
djb- never mind moving into the red herring of insults.
Just provide the evidence to support your assertions. Please answer my questions.
Obviousy Harper is ignoring of the 1000s of executive orders issued by the POTUS that never need congressional approval (many of which do an end run around the constitution) – and of course the POTUS veto power. It’s nice to be the emperor.
Harper still talks like a political bumpkin but he knows how the power game is really played. Look how he unilaterally defunded the provinces on transfers and Health care payments today – those punl premiers never saw it coming – this lad Harper knows where to the bear dumps in the buckwheat.
I must confess that I’m no great collector of photos of Prime Minister Harper, but doesn’t that photo the red star chose look rather thin-lipped and unflattering?
Agree with marina @5:32…
Prime example: what an insulting picture of PM Harper. McCharles, not doubt sifted thru many before she decided on that one.
I was going to hit the ‘Report An Error’ button about Obama appointing a raft of ‘czars’, ignoring superior court injunctions; and usurping Congressional duties but then I saw it was the Red Star so no corrections would have been made.
I like the American system of checks and balances, and think that it is easier to change course there than in Canada.
~et
You got that right.
One man with a rifle changed the course of America November 22, 1963.
A single assassin couldn’t do the same to one of the Anglosphere’s parliamentry governments, what with the members of the cabinet being elected MPs instead of presidential appointed non-elected Secretaries like the American system has.
Our system of government is far more stable than that.
“Harper said he frankly doesn’t have a clue how to fix the health system”.
That’s too bad, but we could suggest that he start by not offering free healthcare to tens of thousands of illegal aliens, in addition to countless thousands of sponsored immigrant grandparents who come to Canada specifically for free healthcare in their golden years.
One married mediocre accountant with a 6 month degree from Mumbai University = 4 old and retired heart, kidney and knee transplants free from you.
The problem with America’s “checks & balances” is that they work great as long as the President allows them to work.
Libya and healthcare are the case and point.
The US Congress is ineffectual and defunct. Obamba does what he wants, either through perversion of the law or the use of Executive Orders.
The Senate & Supreme Court is stocked with Obamba appointees. The fact that he has some trouble getting his way is an amazing feat of failure in itself, and begs to question the credibility of his publicly stated intentions.
Bemused, I worked on the 412 squadron Challengers and am still involved with them. In 2001, Nav Canada which is charged with airways calibration ordered two brand new Challenger 604s to replace their two aging CL601s. Along came 9/11 and air travel fell off a cliff, reducing Nav Canada’s revenues drastically. So there were two brand new Challengers being assembled in the spring of 2002 with a buyer that couldn’t pay for them, in a very depressed market and Canadair was losing money. At the time Dehavilland was parking brand new -8s in North Bay that buyers could not pay for.
Laurent Beaudoin, CEO of Bombardier happens to be a buddy of the Cretch himself, they campaigned together for the ‘NON’ side in the sovereignty referendum in 1995. On March 29th the rumour ran through the hangar that two new Challengers were going to be bought, by the end of the fiscal year which was March 31st. The amazing power of the PMO was apparently applied and all of a sudden the airforce had $26million dollars to spend. That is how the VIP squadron gained two aircraft in three days time. It should be noted that 144613 was destroyed in 1997 and replaced by an older CL600 which has feeble engines and no long range tanks, so they were needed.
By the way, two of the CL601s are Medevac equipped, the seats come out and two Aeromed beds go in. The beds have their own oxygen, vacuum pumps, vital signs monitoring etc. They go to the big USAF base at Ramstein to pick up our wounded coming out of Afstan.
The Liberals flew a lot compared to the Tories. Since the Tories came in the big mods to the VIP fleet is ‘Office in the Sky’ so that the ministers can work and stay in touch via encrypted SatCom.
One thing we have noticed with the Tories is that when there is a ‘repatriation’ there is always someone in Trenton when the C-17 brings our dead home from Afstan. It will be the Governor General, the Defense Minister or the PM. With the Liberals and the past GG it was only occasionally that someone from the government would be there.
oz – I disagree; our ‘whips’ in parliament, who make certain that all MPs vote a specific way, if there are no ‘free votes’ can control and change a legislature.
The examples of Obama and his czars are examples of an executor who is overstepping his legal authority. The fact that the Congress won’t confront him on these issues – is their human weakness. Not a weakness of the system. Remember, even the best system is not mechanical; it’s run by humans.
djb
Your “shit sandwich” analogy is one of the most thoughtful observations that I’ve seen in these parts for quite some time. There used to be a lot of Libertarians and old Reformers posting here but, they seem to have disappeared or perhaps died off. Pity.
ET,
Coming from a political authority who most of us respect, your pretense of not understanding some of djb’s referrences is more than a little disengenuous.
zog – I am most certainly NOT a political authority.
And – my request for djb’s data on both Saskatchewan and Veteran’s data is genuine. I’m not familiar with those situations. Believe it – I don’t focus that much on Canadian politics.
I never watch CTV or the CBC, I browse headlines of the Toronto Star, G&M and Nat. Post, which are all relatively uninformative and in large part, misleading (at least the first two papers are). I didn’t watch any of the debates in the May election.
And, I do appreciate it when a commenter here provides us with data to support their opinions.
The best system is one of informed voters completely skeptical of government action except in the spheres of defense and maintenance of the currency, neither of which can be done effectively by private citizens. The best premier or president is a person of integrity who insists on the welfare of the nation above all other concerns.
Thatcher and Reagan are two good examples. I think PM Harper shows much promise in this vein.
ET: Here are a couple.
Equalization – http://www.gov.sk.ca/news?newsId=c8d8d61f-9b5d-4c45-acde-2a646f5b5852
Veterans – http://www.theobserver.ca/PrintArticle.aspx?e=921960
ET: Here’s another on the veterans program:
http://sen.parl.gc.ca/pdowne/english/Communications/News_Releases/Prime_Minister_Harper_Failing_to_Keep_his_Promises_to_Veterans_ferbruary_10_2011.htm
Scroll down to the bottom to read the letter Harper sent to Joyce Carter in 2005 (when he was still in opposition). It’s unequivocal, especially the words “immediately”, “all” and “regardless”.
djb – thanks for the links, but from what I am reading, those statements were made during the minority govt phase. Most definitely, Harper couldn’t get equalization changes made with a minority govt.
After all – he was unable to do a lot of what he is now doing – and for which he was criticized by many conservatives here at SDA – during the minority phase. He is now doing them.
Therefore, I object to your claim that Harper lied to the people. Making an assertion, and then, being politically and legislatively unable to carry out that promise – is not a lie.
ET: Please provide evidence to show that Harper was blocked politically or legislatively from fulfilling these promises. Thanks.
“sounded a lot like Jean Chretien, the Liberal predecessor he often models”
Only a Red Star halfwit like Tonda could voice that lie. And I know she didn’t mean it literally, but there will never be another prime minister who will sound like Chretien, unless he’s recruited from a sheltered workshop.
Similarly, zog informs us:
“Your “shit sandwich” analogy is one of the most thoughtful observations”
Zog, you have fairly low standards in thoughtfulness, don’t you? I assume a good fart joke would explain Einstein’s relativity for you.
djb- a minority government is all the evidence that is needed.
The things that Harper is now doing – such as removing the funding for political parties, getting rid of the gun registry, the CWB, etc – were all impossible in a minority govt, because they involved: money. And that can bring down a minority govt. The same with the other issues.
Therefore, your claim that Harper lied, that he broke his promises, is invalid. Has he now asserted that he will not carry out these agendas? If he has done this – then you can validly claim that he lied. Otherwise, the only evidence that is valid is: a minority govt. Why don’t you wait and find out if, in the next few years, with a majority govt, that he actually withdraws those promises?
@ Al_in_Ottawa
I was with 419 at the time, just before FRP, but wasn’t crouton’s panic over a leaking cockpit seal, resulting in a precautionary descent, a precursor to the panicked buy ? I definitely remember hearing the story on the news and it was referred to more than once when he sold our freshly (and expensively although quite effectively) revamped CF-5’s for no apparent reason…
http://www.albertaagenda.ca/News%20Articles/20031021%20PM%20McIntoshPR.htm
Tuesday, October 21, 2003
OTTAWA – Canada’s top bureaucrat raised questions in 2002 about the “cost effectiveness” of buying new executive jets for the Prime Minister and other ministers only two months before Jean Chrétien awarded an untendered $100-million contract to Bombardier Inc. for two new Challenger jets…
…The Privy Council Office is believed to have recommended against buying new jets after military officials concluded the $100-million plan to replace older Challengers with newer aircraft would generate “no (or practically nil) reliability advantage.”
What that means is the old aircraft were in such good condition and so well maintained by the government, they would not have any more mechanical trouble or delayed departures than new ones, government documents show…
Heil Harper and the Harper Government of Canada!
“Look how he unilaterally defunded the provinces on transfers and Health care payments today – those punl premiers never saw it coming – this lad Harper knows where to the bear dumps in the buckwheat.” Posted by: Occam at December 20, 2011 6:48 PM
Personally, I think the transfer payments are based upon a very bad formula. For some reason most of the Prov. get very little compaired to Quebec. How do you think Quebec can afford all their social programe – money mainly from the Oil Sands …. which Quebec and Ontario want to shut down because their belief in Global Warming/Climate Change. They should not get one cent if they truly believe the Oil Sands are that bad …. Let Alberta asnd Saskatchewan keep their money if they do not like it.
As for the Heralth care situation, my understanding is that they will have an increase of 6% per year. No mention of lowering payments as far as I see at the present [I am open to be corrected if I am wrong – unlike LIEberals and the Global Warmer/Climate Change religion.]
Mr. Harper and company are getting set to cut the budget of every department in the Federal government by 5% to 10%. I just got my right to own a rifle back after the Liberals took it away in 1995.
I do not give a flying fiddler’s f- what Peter McKay may or may not have been doing with what airplane. Particularly given the Liberal’s past behavior.