Now is the time at SDA when we juxtapose!
Michael Bryant, attorney-general of Ontario (2003-2007);
Suicides. Suicides dropped dramatically in Canada thanks to the federal gun registry. Not only do statistics prove as much, it stands to reason that with improved gun safety comes decreased gun fatalities; with fewer tools-of-choice for suicides available, fewer suicides occur. It just makes sense.
Statistics Canada; (LGR became mandatory in ’03).
Related Michael Bryant statistic: Since the pit bull ban was enacted in 2005, pit bulls have killed fewer Ontarians than former attorney general Michael Bryant.
As someone who may have become a statistic around the 1990s, I would have to counter that having access to weapons actually made me less likely to kill myself. It simply brought home the seriousness of the whole thing.
Also, if I decided that I was to die, I didn’t want to leave a mess for the family to have to clean up. Otherwise that’s just damned inconsiderate and selfish.
http://www.imfcanada.org/article_files/Canadian%20Suicide%20Statistics.pdf
Just to complete the chart, from the above website:
“Between 2000 and 2004, the number of suicides in Canada in a given year ranged from a high of 3765 in 2003 to a low of 3606 in 2000.”
1)I can’t believe that vile,nasty,disgraced killer Micheal Bryant would DARE to show his face in public,what CHUTZPAH(sp.?)
2)Every word he wrote in that article was a lie,exaggeration,or falsehood.
3)I can’t believe that filthy liberal rag the toronto star would have the gall to print a story by that discraced blowhard Micheal Bryant.
oops I meant DISGRACED
Just a couple days ago if I am not mistaken, there was a shooting And according to the opposition parties gun registery saves lives… how? before the fact or after the fact.
Imagine, to stop gun violence and or to avoid any shooting whether in the mall or anywhere else across this nation, police will have to confiscated every gun weapon from alreadied gun owners, farmers.
So how is it that the police had not stopped the culprit ahead of time from shooting anyone is because no one not even the police and the so call gun regfistery of $2b had no knowledge of this intent. So, how can the opposition say, it saves lives.
Just a couple days ago if I am not mistaken, there was a shooting And according to the opposition parties gun registery saves lives… how? before the fact or after the fact.
Imagine, to stop gun violence and or to avoid any shooting whether in the mall or anywhere else across this nation, police will have to confiscated every gun weapon from alreadied gun owners, farmers.
So how is it that the police had not stopped the culprit ahead of time from shooting anyone is because no one not even the police and the so call gun regfistery of $2b had no knowledge of this intent. So, how can the opposition say, it saves lives.
If the long gun registry prevents suicide then it would be safe to surmise that the automobile registry prevents drunken bike couriers from being squashed by chickenshits in Saab convertibles…No?
Lying by the Liberal Left is a mental precondition. They prove it over and over, day in and day out.
The fact that they can live comfortably with themselves having this condition is a phenomenon in itself and should be studied by serious scientists.
Why we seem to quietly tolerate this destructive societal behaviour in our societies leading institutions is another oddity.
It confuses me why the NDP keep saying the registry prevents anything, especially suicide! It is interesting to note that the Liberals also used the suicide of member Scott Simms’ Father as a catalyst to maintain the regestry, even though the registry was in place, and he used a registered gun in the tragedy. The NDP keep giving reasons where the registry has failed, as a specific reason to keep it.
Bob K >
I still laugh at their argument for not shredding the documents:
“But we paid nearly 2 Billion dollars for this information, you can’t just shred it”! LOL
Honestly these people are truly crazy in every sense of the word.
99
“Honestly these people are truly crazy in every sense of the word.”
just had a discussion with a lefty (dipper), they prove their own incompetance, which you point out to them immediately, and they STILL DON’T GET IT (To paraphrase thee lizard may)
A pertinent statistic would be the suicide rate pre and post long gun registry, the potential argument being that the registry lowered it from a pre-existing high. I had to dig a bit in order to get numbers for pre and post 2003, but the following would indicate that the long gun registry has had no identifiable impact:
pubs.pembina.org/reports/27.Suicide.pdf
The long gun registry is pornography for power tripping control freaks like Bill Blair .
with fewer tools-of-choice for suicides available, fewer suicides occur. It just makes sense.
Committing to suicide has little to nothing to do with tools-of-choice.
Once a person has thoughtfully decided to kill themselves having no firearm handy is not an impediment.
That’s why when a person survives a suicide attempt they are put on a suicide watch.
Lithuania with the highest rate of suicide per 100K population has 0.7 guns per hundred people, Ukraine with the second highest suicide rate has 6.6 guns per hundred people.
Here is a nifty site with handy statistics:
http://www.gunpolicy.org/
It should be noted that many national governments lie about what their nation’s statistics are relating to many issues and our Canadian government is no exception.
Ask yourself, have you ever known Statistics Canada to lie?
Perhaps if we lengthened the barrels on long guns then the progressives wouldn’t have ‘lower suicide rates’ as an excuse to keep the d*mned thing!
Oh right …I’m sure they’d come up with another reason.
Global warming has been prevented due to the gun registry. That has just as much credibility as this claim.
Even if the stats supported Bryant, there’s an important detail the anti-gun people are missing: it can be very difficult to kill yourself with a long gun.
The classic debate about this started back when the famous writer Ernest Hemmingway apparently committed suicide with a long gun in 1961. The problem is when they measured the length of his arm to the distance needed to reach the trigger while the barrel was pointed at his head, it didn’t add up. The only way he could have done it was if he pulled the trigger with his big toe — a rather tricky maneuver. Based on this, some people speculated that Hemmingway was actually murdered.
Jus’ sayin’ — people conveniently seem to forget that we’re talking about long guns here, not pistols.
I’m still waiting for the Statistics Canada to publish the Liberal Taboo of racial crime rates as they do in the US.
Then we will see tangible, traceable statistics and trends of violent crime! Miraculously the whole gun crime issue will make sense to all; the US FBI Crime reports (easily found on the internet) prove this indisputably. The LYING Liberal left hides facts from Canadians while they continuously manipulate us into deeper crime rates and less personal defence for our families against its onslaught.
There needs to be a complete overhaul of our media, educational and criminal systems before the lying perverts of our country run it completely into the Third World.
These are all the boom years when the economy was performing and unemployment was low. I think these numbers will go up from 2008 to whenever this depression ends, and when they look back, they will say that suicides went up after the registry was shut down. I may be wrong but I think there are a few people who would rather be dead than poor and there are a lot of people who are just finding out how much they have lost.
mark >
Good point.
Another point is that the term “Suicide Rates” means nothing in relationship to the gun registry. ALL of these people could have jumped of a bridge for all we know.
There are statistics that do show what methods were used for suicides, and it has been proven that the suicide “rate” doesn’t change in a given year based on gun control, only the method used.
The question is, why should a mentally healthy majority of Canadian society suffer for the mental illnesses of a few based of lies and manipulated statistical interpretations?
Kate
I think Bryant is wrong, so I don’t want to be contradictory. However, if you look at statistics and the no. of suicides in Canada in 1999 and 2008 you will notice some decrease. In 1999 4,074 Canadians committed suicide but in 2008 only 3705.
So if one assume, like Bryant, that only gun registry had influence on suicides’ numbers (which is not true, other factors were more important at that time) then his claim is valid.
What a load of utter garbage.
Bryant seems incapable of separating causation from coincidence. If I drop a spoon at the same time that a car crashes, does that mean dropping or not dropping spoons affects the rate of automobile collisions?
He also seems to miss the point that guns are only one of a myriad of ways that people end their lives voluntarily, and it’s not even the most common. By his logic, we should ban all pharmaceuticals that can cause death in sufficient quantities. Ban all aspirin now!
Just more evidence that Bryant really is a drunken idiot. But then this is the man who enacted laws to simply have people’s cars seized at the roadside for speeding violations. Notably is street racing legislation failed to survived even its first Charter challenge and is now completely unenforceable.
just watching liberal john mckay giggling , as he tells stories of colleagues families suicides , during the gun gontrol debate. is he simple minded ?
oops , they changed to a suicide prevention debate , still , whats with mckay giggling ?
Well to my mind gun control is to suicide what a guy known for studying fruit flies is to climate science. In other words no relationship what so ever.
A close family member committed suicide a few years ago. He had never handled a gun in his life and did not use one to end his life. However like all ‘victims’ I demand that something be done to prevent such needless deaths from occurring ever again. I demand that all bed sheets be registered.
In 1999 4,074 Canadians committed suicide but in 2008 only 3705.
~ella
Chretien was PM in 1999, that’s why the suicide rate was so high and then it started to really decline by 2008 because Stephen Harper had been PM since 2006 and people were starting to have hope again.
(wow, this spurious correlation game can be fun!)
There was also a real “End-of-the-World” meme in 1999 that had people with unstable minds checking out early.
Are people likely to look at a gun and say, “Gee, that gun’s registered, I guess I’ll change my mind about ending myself”?
What I’d like to know is if the government cares so much about preventing suicides, why do they encourage illegal drug abuse by handing out needles?
But does he subscribe to the usual liberal dogma that the government should allow euthanasia? And if so, doesn’t is mean that he believes the government should not interfere with a person desire to commit suicide…
He must be objecting to the mess a gun can create.
Absolute BS. Strick, I’ve had patients tell me similar stories of sitting with a pistol to their head and suddenly realizing that they were in a bad mental state and should do something about it.
What the gun registry has shown is that if people are deprived of one means of suicide they find another. Lorne Gunther wrote a piece on this some years back. It’s true that firearms suicides have declined but suicides by hanging have increased dramatically. In fact, the increase in suicides by hanging has been 1.4x that of the decrease in firearms suicides. This is one of those relationships that gives a beautiful straight line when graphed.
So it looks like C68 increased suicides by hanging although I’ve never seen any of the hoplophobes that continue to defend C68 come up with any proposals for a rope registry or having hardware store staff administer a depression inventory for anyone who comes in wanting to buy rope.
People who want to kill themselves will find another means if they are denied a particular method. Only deranged leftists think otherwise. Perhaps the solution is to make suicide illegal again; being locked up in jail for life should really make people think hard before they try to kill themselves. Hey, it makes just as much sense as C68.
Ricardo October 28, 2011 1:21 PM made an excellent point!
The stats are for ALL firearms, not specifically long guns.
In addition guns are the instrument of choice for men, not women (poison or jumping is their’s I believe). Also not broken down by Province, while the gun ownership rate varies dramatically by Province.
Basically the stats are useless.
Just shoot the registry down already…Ready, Aim, Fire!
Bury this legislation in the cyber cemetary where it belongs.
The only thing these statists forgot was to ban Jews from owning guns. Maybe they are closet fascists afraid to come out…?
The only report these comedians would understand is the one emanating from one’s rifle!
Amen, and alleluia the gun registry will soon have breathed it’s last.
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
Guns don’t kill people
Michael Bryant behind the wheel of his car kills people.
Frankly, without being able to compare suicide rates previous to the LGR – the information as presented is meaningless. It literally has no context nor is it a foundation to draw any valid conclusions from.
It’s Bryant who stated that suicides had “dramatically dropped”. The statistics clearly don’t support that. It’s not up to me to prove the StatsCan data wrong – it’s up to him.
bear, the number of suicides remains consistant per population, the manner of death is different, but no significantly.
Its kinda like Miller in Trawna putting a cage over a pedestrian overpass on the Don valley Pkwy because of suicides, once done, they just used the next one down the street.
Liberal logic you see…
Michael Bryant did not approve this ad…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TepdEvqV8lw#!
LOL
Stay with us, Strick.
People who are troubled will find a way to kill themselves, guns or not. What good is banning guns and not reaching out to mentally troubled people?
You should really start in 2003 or earlier to make the point clearer.
I poked around Stats Canada to do that, and unsurprisingly the Canadian suicide rate is essentially unchanged from 2000 to today.
We see (rate per 100k) 11.7, 11.9, 11.6, 11.9 (2003), 11.3, 11.6, 10.8, 11.0, 11.1.
So there’s a drop- but it starts in 2002, bumps up again for 2003, and then drops for 2006, and rebounds again.
What that is is farkin’ noise, not “without guns people off themselves less”.
(The table for firearms suicides does show a sustained drop from 2003 onwards, from 2.0 to 1.8 and then in 2007 to 1.6 per 100k.
But if all the registry did was convince 2 out of every million Canadians to (eg) use rope instead, which is a lot of what it looks like, that’s no justification even from utilitarian grounds.
Note that from 2003 to 2004, the first year for the registry effect, firearms suicides drop by .2 per 100k – and non-firearms drop by .6… .4 more than the firearms reduction.
Is the idea that the registry made 4 in a million Canadians not commit suicide – by some means other than a gun?
Impressive, if it even stopped non-gun suicides!)
bear:
it only takes a few minutes on google to get long term suicide stats. And long term, the rate has dropped steadily, not because of gun registries, IMHO, but because of better diagnosis of depression, new anti-depressant medications, and more support services for people who are considering suicide.
All that said, I do think the number of gun suicides is under-reported. Whenever I read “accidental death occurred while he was cleaning his gun”, I’m pretty sure it was suicide, and it’s reported this way to save the family grief.
I have trouble viewing Michael Bryant as anything other than a self-serving douche, but I don’t think it’s appropriate to smear him with the death of the cyclist. When you read the details of the case, it’s a bloody wonder the moron didn’t get greased by someone else earlier, and when he did die, it was as a direct result of his own stupid actions.
I too decided to look at the suicide stats from 2000 through 2008, restricting my CANSIM search only to suicide by firearms, both sexes, all ages at age of death, Canadian residents only (excludes Canucks living or working overseas, I b’lieve).
On a straight view, you get the following absolute numbers, starting in year 2000:
685(’00)
651(’01)
633(’02)
618(’03)
568(’04)
593(’05)
586(’06)
534(’07)
518(’08)
So, yes, there is a drop-off after ’03, although ’05 shows an uptick again, and then the numbers drop again. However, there is no explanation why this should be so, and the idea that the act of registering a long gun would somehow make the long gun less useful/”desirable” as a method of suicide makes zero sense. It’s about availability, and, at least in the first instance, registering a long gun doesn’t suddenly remove it from the hands of the potential suicide.
It’s more likely that most of these suicides were with handguns, which have been restricted for quite awhile. And there’s little explanation why the suicide rate would bounce around as it does throughout the “Oughts” in Canada.
Yes, the constant lying by liberals — Obama tops that category — is irksome, but entirely within the idealogy of lefties, or Marxists – that THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS. Wasn’t that the declared creed of Lenin and his Bolshevics? Clearly, it is a creed of the far left; a creed that marks them, certifiably as: Liberal Insanity
Even if it were undeniably true that private unrestricted ownership of firearms caused more suicides by shooting, so what? I don’t want to sound like a heartless bastard, but if you want to kill yourself why should this have any impact at all on my right to bear arms? And we do have a right to bear arms. This is not only an American thing. These rights come from god, not government and although we come under different governments, we all come under the same god. The right of a free man to bear arms predates the US constitution, they just went to the effort to write it down.
Garth Wood >
“Oz” nailed it earlier.
From 2006 onwards Harper took the reins of power in Canada with his no nonsense “tough on crime stance”.
Homicide rates have subsequently fallen, very simple.
*Go Stephan Harper, you have been a man of your word, and are making Canadian safer and more prosperous each year because you are in charge.
The Liberal thinks that a person is like a wind up toy. Just take away the gun and they can’t commit suicide! Beyond parody.
Hmmm, why is the number suicides of people over 55 rising?
The mid-life crises are pretty bad too. I suppose they’re just running their electric cars with the garage door closed.
my friends husband committed suicide some years ago using a hose and a car. we need to register hoses and cars…um, well hoses aanyway.
An old Canadian aboriginal legend from the stony Indian tribes of Alberta, speaks of a man, part wolf part legend, an Alfa male with steely ice blue eyes, bearing the handsome grey mange borne of kings of lore. The legend speaks of a “one day” that would rise like a Phoenix from the ashes in dark liberal chaos to bring mother earths people to the brink of “progressive” slavery into the under-verse, the liberal utopian hell of chaos, destruction and the subsequent absence of light & grace.
On that day a man by no other earthly description but man, summoned by the universal powers of destiny, justice, hope and indeed truth in its purest human essence will be called HARPER!!!!
“He who will walk among the wolf, he who commandeth the wolf” Owwooooooooohhhhhaaaaaaaa…….
“He who will walk among the wolf, he who commandeth the wolf” Owwooooooooohhhhhaaaaaaaa…….
~Knight 99
Yeah…I remember when I had my first beer. . .
just kiddin’, Knight 99, but cut that cht out, main, cuz yur gettin’ my dog ess-Yyyt-id.
Oz >
He he, Friday Night, and the kids are out 🙂
Well let’s go to the tips thread