135 Replies to “Egypt”

  1. You don’t have to be an “expert on Egypt and Middle East” to understand universal truths that ecology and economics drives the kind of government we need in order to adapt to our physical reality and that the kind of culture and religion we choose to help us better adapt to our economic reality will have a bearing on our success.
    Nor do we have to be anthological experts to understand the concept of hosts and parasites. A much bigger problem for us than the Middle East, which will either reform or implode and kill off the excess population; is right here at home. Why are we conservatives propping up the failed ideas of the CBC, the socialism of the Separatists in Quebec, the Nanny Care and Climate Shaft ideas of the progressive Librano$?
    The Librano$ are simply a milder form of parasites than the Islamists, living off the host of successful capitalism so they can set up a 2-class system of rulers and peasants. If allowed to do so, how would that differ from what has happened in the ME?
    Why do we prop up bad ideas? That is the issue. Are we any smarter than the poor slobs in the Middle East who are under the thumb of thugs? We have the option to Black Flag the parasites, yet we let them feed on the host. The progressives right here at home are a bigger threat to our well being than a bunch of Islamist camel drivers.

  2. “When did you become such experts on Egypt?”
    This is the internet. People express opinions and many are very insightful. Is this okay with you?

  3. This is why I now must believe in aliens;
    No way had the Egyptians built the pyramids. No way at all………

  4. Did anybody look closely at the clip of Anderson Cooper describing the “attack” on his crew? Punched 10 times in the head but no blood flowing and not a mark that I could see. What a rotten, lying s.o.b.!
    I’m horrified by the percentage of Egyptians who favour the death penalty for apostates, stoning for adultry etc. The few Egyptians who I know seem like nice, normal people. Do we really live in the 21st century?

  5. Oh, we’re talking about Egypt! I thought those people holding the banner were ACORN activists supporting Obama.
    Egypt hasn’t had the necessary rule of law in place for the development of capital since the British were in charge, if ever. The same can be said for the rest of the Arab Muslim world. All industrial development has come from non Muslim nations. Go short on Egypt, long on Ordnance for the Israeli market.
    ET, your oil reserve numbers didn’t consider the US oil shales which, if developed in combination with synthetic oil from coal could leave America free of any need from the retrograde Arab Muslim world. The Saudis currently “reinvest” $4,000,000,000 annually in the US, spreading their toxic Wahhabism. Without a US market their next customers might not be as tolerant or as suicidally protective of the House of Saud.

  6. To paraphrase George Jonas in today’s National Post, history shows it’s hard to nurture a democracy in a changing political landscape when there are few democrats: France and Napolean, Russia and Lenin, Germany and Hitler.
    And he quoted Roosevelt referring to some nasty but pro US leader in South America at the time: “He may be a son-of-a-bit*h, but at least he’s our son of a bit*h” Same could be said for Mubarek.

  7. phantom – george soros wants his own global caliphate – a socialist, statist global world. Ruled by..him? Certainly, his agenda is to disable and remove a middle class and its political powers in a democratic legislature.
    What is going on in the ME now is a tectonic shift from an ancient tribal infrastructure, kept in place long past its ‘best before date’ by oil and by, as nomdeblog points out – billions in aid from the West. Make no mistake: we’ve assisted this sclerotic dysfunctional set of dictatorships to maintain power…and this means, we are party to the collapse of their economy and the rise of Islamic fascism.
    Why? Because Islamic fascism is the poor man’s way out of poverty and powerlessness. It’s their Hope and Change – and we saw what that very mantra did in the US. Islamic fascism says that IF we all, and I mean all, become homogeneous and pure (as defined by our beliefs and behaviour), THEN, everything will be OK..and god will look after us and there’ll be food and housing and so on.
    This is pure fiction, it exists only within thoughts held in the mind. It has no ability to transform thoughts into acts. It can’t grow food, it can’t set up waste treatment plants, it can’t build roads, it can’t come up with new medicines to treat new diseases, it can’t innovate a new energy system. Nothing.
    It’s purely parasitic on the innovations and work of others. You can pray umpteen times a day and insist that women stay in the home..and still, the germs will come and the water will be polluted and there won’t be any food. And because it doesn’t work, rage and anger is the result. After all, you are under the illusion that in order for it to work, everyone..everyone, must all be the same. No deviations.
    It’s like freaking out over the single crystal of sugar forming…once that deviant crystal forms, there goes your batch of candy.
    So, my view is that fundamentalism of any type can’t work in an industrial multimillion size population. You have to have a middle class of private small to medium businesses. No nation’s raw resources or Suez canal tolls etc..are enough to maintain that size of population. You must set up a dynamic capitalist economic base. That’s what is going on in the ME right now..and as nomdeblog also points out – it’s not an easy fight.
    After all, hope and change is easier to do than the risks of being a businessman. But, hope and change makes everyone a slave, and I think the people of the ME have had enough of that.

  8. @ET
    “young impoverished population – they can opt for economic challenges and freedom”
    You mean like the green revolt succeded in Iran last year? The revolution in Iran that started as a people’s revolution in 1979?
    /sarc off

  9. Canada’s National Brotherhood Broadcaster has broken the leftist MSM ranks.
    Scoop for Peter tonight: “1 dead”.
    That’s “1 dead” polar bear, right? In Cairo’s Zoo.
    (H/T Goreacle> Who knew It was in Egypt.)
    …-
    “Egyptian clashes leave 1 dead, hundreds hurt
    CBC.ca”

  10. al the fish – and note that the people in Iran didn’t, themselves, opt for totalitarian Islam. That’s the agenda of the tribal rulers who run the country – remember them? The ones that Obama supported, rather than supporting the people?
    john chittick – yes, you are exactly right. That’s the whole point – the ME hasn’t enabled the devt of capital. They’ve relied on their oil revenues and foreign aid. That’s parasitic economics. They are an empty shell of an economy.
    Thanks for bringing in that data on the US oil shales. …that Obama is repressing.
    philm – that’s quite the cynical view. And short-sighted. It’s our support for Mubarak that has enabled him, and other dictators like him, to repress the populations in the ME, deprive them of any active participation in the economy and in the government, and thus, drive them to the ‘hope and change’ rhetoric of a fundamentalist ideology.

  11. Those of us who disagree with many of the commenters here, and believe instead that classical liberalism is not the natural state of man—that it will not spring, unaided, from the state of nature, but requires, instead, the careful nurturing of classical liberal ideas of individuality, the value of individual freedom, and the sentiments that go with those ideas, and believe as well that all these unnatural ideas will flourish only within a classically liberal culture with its institutions of private property, education, morality, science, poilitcs and law—, will find much to agree with in Daniel Pipes’ piece at NRO this morning. E.g.:

    “… understanding that democratization is a decades-long process that requires the inculcation of counter-intuitive ideas about elections, freedom of speech, and the rule of law.”

    Democracy is bad enough in cultures that are increasingly illiberal. It is a positive poison in more barbaric cultures steeped in the ideas and values of a barbaric religion.

  12. And, as nomdeblog points out, we in the west have enabled them to remain frozen in the old tribal ways, by our constant aid. We’ve been helping them stay frozen, and thus, we’ve even been partners in their move to fundamentalism. After all, fundamentalism is an attempt to ‘get us out of this current mess’..It’s a mistaken belief that If Only We Were Pure, then, everything will get better. So – instead of sending our billions to the ME for them to ‘stay the same’…we ought to let them realize that their current economic mode…is disastrous and the people need freedom to be capitalists..
    – Who Else?
    That, ET, is IT. This is exactly the view I’ve come to in recent months through a review and purification of my own Austro-Libertarian leanings. No more AID, no more US military bases; the US doesn’t need to “protect their interests”; the ME oil producers need us as much as we need them. More. There’s absolutely no basis for supply interruptions absent our meddling in the ME.
    AND for that reason I also say, sure let them have their Muslim Brotherhood governance, let them see and experience the utter economic disaster that will flow from that.
    This quote may not be a perfect fit, but:
    “However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.”
    — Winston Churchill

  13. “So – instead of sending our billions to the ME for them to ‘stay the same’…we ought to let them realize that their current economic mode…is disastrous and the people need freedom to be capitalists.”
    Interestingly enough, the very first thing I heard on the news regarding the White House’s response to the ‘protests’ was that the United States was to “cut-off aid” to Egypt. Now, TOTUS & Co. appear to have had a change of heart on this matter. Perhaps upon reading ET’s economic analysis eh? Regardless of the differing points of view on this subject, I think it’s fair to say that most all of us here support ‘cutting-off’ such aid. So even though we come to the same solution from different directions, we come to the same solution none the less. Am I wrong?
    It seems to me that regardless of what any of us might think about this issue; our leaders are only capable of half-measures in which either/or will be expensive and ineffective. This is why I hold-out hope for Sarah Palin, because I feel she is the only person who won’t do things ‘halfway’; and, who is actually within reach of being able to do something.JMO

  14. With regard to the link to American Thinker provided by kate, I saw that yesterday, and tend to discount a fair bit of it. Contrary to this one young person’s account that “the Egyptian masses are not demonstrating anymore”, the demonstrations continue and are indeed continuing. Nor is the army in control. Nor does the MB ‘dominate the scene’.
    My concern, as I’ve said, is Mubarak. He’s behind the thugs who are now out in the streets, the ‘pro-Mubarak crowd’, some of whom told CNN that they, as public employees, had been ordered to go out and demonstrate in favour of Mubarak.
    And Mubarak is behind the violence and the looting. He wants to create a scenario of violence – the anti-Mubarak demonstrators warned the media repeatedly that they expected him to do just this. He wants to move into military control and remain as a dynasty.
    Remember, this is not a battle between Mubarak-the-secular, and the People-the-Fundamentalists. That’s nowhere in evidence. It’s a battle between a dictator and oligarchy – and a people’s desire for freedom.
    nick – democracy doesn’t emerge in ‘barbaric cultures’, for barbaric societies actually, never last beyond a generation. Democracy also doesn’t operate in tribal cultures, which can be functional in small to medium populations, no growth economies.
    Democracy is a particular political mode that must emerge when populations are in the multimillions and the economy is industrial. Certainly, dictators will try to prevent it – as we see in the ME – but, it will come.
    me no dhimmi – right, I agree. Let them sink or swim on their own. It would be very rapidly shown that their tribal infrastructure is disastrous in such a large population. And – no fundamentalist ideology can operate except as a parasite on real economies.

  16. Maybe some more of our Moslem Murder Cult devotees can head over to Eygpt for a little mayhem. That is all they are good for anyway.

  18. All this talk about cutting aid is getting me excited. But, if we’re going to cut off aid to Egypt, then let us also cut it to the entire continent in which sits.

  19. Just a thought for those who advocate letting them have the MB take over, how long would it take before all those lovely little jets that Mubarak bought took off for a strafing run on Israel? Jordan may be next to fall and Israel will be surrounded. The danger is growing hourly. Just saw a former Israeli ambassador to the UN on Fox criticizing the O for cutting Mubarak loose. And the mobs have firebombed the museums in Cairo. Chaos.

  20. Little PeterCBC left in the lurch.
    300 “feared dead”. 300 ?
    Betcha it’s AlMoh’s Boys in the ‘hood who’ll “claim responsibility(niceMSM words)”.
    The Way to the Egyptian totalitarian theocracy.
    (H/T Mullahs Iran).
    AlMoh’s “bloodbath” gets worser:
    Here’s David: “David Akin: Violence in Tahrir Square as some protest continued protests”
    …-
    “Daily Mail: Egypt in flames: 300 feared dead and 500 injured as revolution descends into bloodbath”
    http://www.newswatchcanada.ca/

  21. AND for that reason I also say, sure let them have their Muslim Brotherhood governance, let them see and experience the utter economic disaster that will flow from that.
    Posted by: Me No Dhimmi
    ………………..
    What happens when/if the shut down the Suez?

  22. AND for that reason I also say, sure let them have their Muslim Brotherhood governance, let them see and experience the utter economic disaster that will flow from that.
    Posted by: Me No Dhimmi
    ………………..
    What happens when/if the Muslim Brotherhood government shuts down the Suez?

  23. “Machine guns fired into Cairo’s Tahrir Square”
    “one killed”.
    Jerusalem Post – Melanie Lidman – ‎42 minutes ago‎
    600 reported injured, one killed in clashes; Pro-Mubarak rioters hurl Molotov Cocktails, rocks at opposition from surrounding buildings; protesters target Egyptian Museum.”
    (googlenews)
    …-
    >>> Mohammedanism (Islam) destroys cultures.
    >>> “protesters target Egyptian Museum.”
    “2 Comments
    Budd | January 20, 2004 9:30 AM
    Ibn Warraq speaks about this issue in “Why I Am Not A Muslim”. In the West, the French are castigated for being ‘imperialist colonizers’ of Algeria, but who raped Algeria and Morocco first? The Arabs, who, through Islam destroys cultures.
    History must stop speaking of the ‘glorious Muslim conquests’ (or expansion) and tell it likes it is/was.”
    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2004/01/anti-dhimmitude-among-the-berbers.html

  24. Update: Liberal Iggy’s O’Harvard buddy.
    Belmont Club: O’s the Man From NUANCE.
    O’narcissist has taken lessons from ex-Liberal MP Bill Graham, the original NUANCE, the other narcissist with the feathers.
    It’s a PR problem.
    …-
    “The words of Gilbert and Sullivan come to mind, slightly altered.
    I am the very model of a modern Media-General,
    I’ve talking points on any subject liberal,
    I know the hosts of talk shows, and claim mandates historical
    From Roe to Wade, in order categorical;
    I’m very well acquainted, too, with matters economical,
    I understand printing money is rarely problematical,
    About Alaskan natives I’ve definite enlightened views
    With reasons why ladies shouldn’t hunt the wilder moose.
    And though my practical knowledge is both spottily and scantily,
    Enlivened but with anecdotes from the 8th to 19th century;
    But still, in matters rhetorical and political,
    I am the very model of a modern Media-General.”
    “No Holes Barred Diplomacy”
    http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2011/02/02/no-holes-barred/#comments

  25. Thanks for the article in the American Thinker Kate. It adds another dimension. It appears the people who are revolting right now are doing it for the wrong reason: opposition to decreases in government aid as a result of increases in capitalism that is a threat to the military. Just as I suspected, the MB is using the call for democracy in an effort to position themselves as a dominate viable political alternative. From what I have gleaned from the article, the Egyptians seem to know better and that is a good thing. At any rate, this is all good discussion.

  26. ET: Always appreciate your take on issues such as this. I wonder though…
    @10:29 you state “….democracy is not a choice. It’s a necessity when your population reaches a certain size and when your economy is industrial.”
    How then, do you explain China? Admittedly, some baby steps are being taken, but it is far, far from a democracy.

  28. Indiana Homez “Regardless of the differing points of view on this subject, I think it’s fair to say that most all of us here support ‘cutting-off’ such aid. So even though we come to the same solution from different directions, we come to the same solution none the less. Am I wrong?”
    Ahhh … good question, here comes the hard part. Yes, the goal is to stop propping up the bad guys.
    To achieve that, we need the locals to police themselves. To do that, ordinary people need to be feed and strong enough to fight for freedom; they are going to need food, which was the immediate cause of the crisis, ie lack of food. I believe we should help with that …for awhile. Not just for their sake, but because it is in our interest to try and make sure this uprising starts to move in a democratic direction because we want the Suez kept open. We don’t want oil to have to travel 10,000 miles around South Africa, that will drive the cost of oil up. That is a de facto tax. Again we need to keep analysing the economics here instead of just assuming decisions are made around a defunct religion/culture.
    Some will correctly argue this food aid would set us up on a slippery slope to perpetually propping up again. Ask our soldiers in Afghanistan if that’s what they slipped into…it is indeed debateable.

  29. snagglepuss – agreed, China is not yet a democracy but the steps are there.
    What is happening now is the emergence of a, may I call it, a rabid middle class, devoted to only one thing: money.
    China has initiated private property rights, and small and medium businesses are being set up in great numbers. Chinese people work 7 days a week; vacations are unheard of; construction goes on for 24 hours in three shifts..
    As for the govt, what most counts is the local authorities and they operate by bribes. Most people ignore the central government. People who work in govt, I’m told, have little to do, spend a great deal of time on meals and playing cards (hmm, sounds like a lot of govt bureaucracies). The vitality is in the private business sector.
    So, democracy will come because the economy is changing ‘from the bottom up’; a middle class is developing and they will demand political control over their own lives.

  30. “Essentially, this economic agenda has left the majority of the population – and it’s a young population, in poverty and above all, with no future.”
    That is the same recipe that England found herself in and it lead to colonial expansion as all that youth went into the army & navy.

  31. Israel just moved their military draft call from May to March.

    IMO, a wise move, Indeed.

    Cliff notes for the IDF… point Dr. No to:

    30 03 N 31 15 E

    33 20 N 44 26 E

    24 39 N 46 46 E

  32. Snagglepus: “How then, do you explain China?”
    One word buddy: bubble. Really, -really- big bubble. Its amazing what you can do with absolute power and zero scruples.

  33. First of all, I’m for stiff(no pun intended) penalties, perhaps criminal, for adultery, though I think ‘stoning’ goes a bit far. That said, their may be some aggrieved spouses who’d disagree.
    Phantom said:
    “Joke is, it wouldn’t matter if America -was- evil, a Middle East and Turkey ruled by Sharia under a new Caliphate would be SO much worse.”
    Bingo! That’s how we know the anti-America stuff is BS.
    Phantom also said:
    “Problem is, it’ll take 40-80 years, at least one major war most likely with nukes in it, and maybe a billion lives for these goofs to figure it out.”
    And ET and MND seem to agree about this:
    “me no dhimmi – right, I agree. Let them sink or swim on their own.”
    So my question remains (perhaps you three would address this): Should we not try and mitigate the potential for nuclear war?
    I see where MND and ET are coming from; and in my own uninformed way I agree with them. That said, whether it takes 400 years for democracy and liberty to take hold in Egypt, or an optimistic 10 years as some might suggest; it’s the ‘what happens in that 10-400 years?’ that concerns me.
    Now…I’m not saying that we can even prevent such an event. Perhaps we are too ambitious, and we should go on the defensive as I perceive ET and MND’s position to be; but, I still believe we have an obligation to do what we can. Even when it’s hard, and it challenges our convictions.
    Also, has anyone considered what Israel’s reaction might be if certain scenarios play-out? Isn’t it likely that if things go bad we will find ourselves DIRECTLY involved anyways? After all, Israel is an Allie right?
    Once again, our objective IMO should be to attempt to foster the most peaceful solution to the overall issues in the ME; and, we can’t lose sight that Egypt IS an allie. It is not our responsibility to be concerned for populous sentiment towards the west, especially under threat. It is our responsibility to ensure that bad things don’t happen because of the Egyptian people’s inability to handle internal affairs, regardless of our so called short comings. Those short comings being purchasing their goods and giving them charity.
    And ET, it can be argued that you’re belief that the MEers are and have been unable to progress due to the aforementioned commerce and charity is racist also. Now lets be clear, I’m NOT making such an argument, but that’s the door you opened.

  34. What happens when/if the Muslim Brotherhood government shuts down the Suez?
    Posted by: nemo2 at February 2, 2011 3:30 PM
    Nemo2, for what purpose? For what benefit? This would be seriously counter-productive, would harm Egyptians and could seriously undermine their hold on power, which after all always depends on a certain level of consent!
    In my view (and I’m fairly new to it) the ME hates the US not for it’s freedoms nor for its wealth, but because of its interminable, condescending, paternalistic interventions, however well-intentioned some of these may be.
    Maybe I’m naive, but absent all this meddling, all those military boots on the ground over there, I can’t see any reason why ME nations would want to shut down vital trade routes.
    Be clear, tho, Nemo2, I loathe and despise the Muslim Brotherhood and am terrified of the progress they’re making on our own shores.
    BUT, if they did, that would be a valid casus belli, don’t you think? And it would not be a exclusive US concern.

  35. The problem as I see it is the use of the term “democracy” which has a completely different meaning in the west as it does in Muslim belief dominated ME countries.
    Democracy to a Muslim means the freedom to enforce Sharia Law on all Muslims whether they like it or not. Given this definition, yes the ME will have a democracy.
    I’m with Kate on this one.
    One can not view what is happening in Egypt from a purely economic or even political point of view. Doing so is akin to viewing human beings as having only bodies and minds while completely ignoring the concept or reality of the soul/spirit.
    The fact is that this is a multi-dimensional issue. Ignoring the reality of religion in this uprising is short sighted at best, yet I can certainly understand why atheists would choose to do so since belief systems are not their forte and considered insignificant in the grand political-economic picture.

  36. All this talk about cutting aid is getting me excited. But, if we’re going to cut off aid to Egypt, then let us also cut it to the entire continent in which sits.
    Posted by: Mark at February 2, 2011 3:08 PM
    Swallowing hard here Mark, but, gulp, aid to Israel too probably.
    ET’s thesis of our aid FREEZING the status quo, is brilliant. It has many applications:
    1. UNRWA — clearly this rotten UN institution bears the chief responsbility for the extended “refugee” crisis. “Palestinians” are the ONLY group in history to receive refugee status beyond the first generation.
    2. PLO/Fatah, and indirectly, Hamas. Without the enormous US, EU subsidies — and actual military training from the US — this conflict would have been settled long ago. These bums would be nobodies — municipal politicians at most, dealing with garbage, sewer and streets — not the oh-so-chic international terror celebrities they are now.

  37. Me No Dhimmi:
    As I attempted to indicate through my fable on ‘gravity’, from my own personal observations in the M.E. what we in the West consider rational does not necessarily coincide with that of ‘extremist’ Muslims, which I believe the MB to be.
    If the MB takes control of Egypt and decides that a return to Koranic basics is ‘required’, regardless of the economic calamity it would generate, they COULD (not saying they will, but contingency plans would, I believe, be made by Western powers), decide to shut ‘er down……a couple sunk ships would do the job.

  38. indiana homez – no, my argument that the West has been propping up dictators in the ME and thus, has enabled the rise of utopian fascism, is hardly racist. Such an argument is valid for any population. Repress a population with force, and they will start to dream of ‘magical remedies’, where, if they are Pure, then..wonderful results will occur.
    We’ve been helping those dictators repress their people…because, we felt that those dictators were ‘friendly’ to us. That’s shortsighted. We have to take ‘the long view’..
    I recommend the analyses of Zudhi Jasser, president of the American Institute for Islamic Democracy. He is saying that the West cannot expect that a people, repressed for generations, will, in one day, be a functional democracy. He says it takes time, BUT – that ‘these people are the same as us (ie, as we westerners)’..and what must be enabled by us, is the promotion of an environment where these different ideas can be debated – freely, not by means of force – and that he, a Muslim, considers that Muslims will reject radicalism in favour of freedom.
    http://www.aifdemocracy.org/
    By the way – it is vital to note that the violence, the Molotov cocktails etc..are all from Mubarak’s thugs. All paid to do this. Not grassroots, but, govt paid.
    He is saying that the West has to allow the ME to go through this ‘test and debate period’; that the West cannot retreat into ‘support the Dictator because he’s on our side’. He’s saying, as I am, that the West’s support for dictators has actually enabled the emergence and spread of radical fundamentalism.

  39. Me No Dhimmi:
    Further to……I guess basically what I’m saying is never, ever, think “Naah, they wouldn’t do THAT” about anything in the M.E.

  40. While I agree that to a significant degree that support for dictators has indeed enabled radical Islam, the deed is done and can not be undone – radical Islam is alive and well and how it garnered its strength is a moot point (irrelevant)at this stage.
    The fact remains that Muslim belief dominated countries are moving towards fundamentalism and not away from it. I do not see any strategies nor indications that this trend is in anyway abating. Sharia law rules in countries where it is “technically” frowned upon.

  41. I share ET’s optimism about the outcome.
    There are Egyptian bloggers like sandmonkey (hasn’t posted since late November) who embody the spirit of freedom that’s within every human being.
    Dubya was correct in his 2005 State of the Union address that human beings all over the world have the same aspiration for self-determination.
    Wanna continue the sky is falling mantra about the Muslim Brotherhood, go ahead. The best they’ve ever polled in the Egyptian elections is 10%.

  43. no-one – the Islamic nations are moving towards fundamentalism as a ‘hope and change’ mental and emotional ideology…because they live, in actual fact, within tribal dictatorships…and they have no power to change that dictatorship. So, they dream of magical remedies, where, if they do such and such..then..wonderful results will occur.
    This trend will abate when the magic-of-purity is no longer needed, when your actions in your daily life will have direct positive results. You won’t need obedience to an authoritative code.
    And I’m not ignoring the role of religion, despite my being an atheist – for religion is not equivalent to fundamentalist Islamic fascism. The latter is hardly a religion and is instead a militant totalitarianism. Nothing to do with the individual’s contact with God or Nature.
    nemo2 – that fact that extremists could shut down the Suez Canal isn’t the point. It’s the results of such an action – and the massive loss of income would weaken their control over the population. They’d be ousted in a day.
    Meanwhile, Mubarak’s paid thugs are attacking the anti-Mubarak demonstrators. Remember, the demonstrations were completely non-violent..until Mubarak’s thugs, paid public employees, were told to move in and attack. He wants to create riots so that he can declare martial law. But, I think it’s too late..and I don’t think the army will support him.

  44. I hate to break your bubble ET but there were deaths and injured people before the pro-government factions showed up when it was deemed a “Peaceful” protest and don’t forget the rioting and looting. Can’t rewrite history buttercup.

  45. A lot of these folks where calling for war on Israel from day one. Thats all I need to know. The article was good in that its shows the normal populations perceptions to this. Than again there not the ones who will take up power.
    The Army to win over the majority has to do something that lifts them up in the publics eye. I wonder what that could be?
    JMO

  47. Interesting chain of discussion, but what has been missed is that these demonstrations did not occur spontantiously. The rallies in Washington last year took months of preparation so how did all of these Egyptians get the same idea at the same time to down tools and assemble in the ‘town’ square, and don’t tell me they tweeted each other? Somebody orchestrated this, and it wasn’t the resident community organizer, this was performed as the opening act for a power play, much like the Beer Hall Putsch. The alienated youth that everyone above is alluding to couldn’t organize a piss-up at a brewery. All past revolutions have been organized by people a lot older than what is shown on the newsclips and u-tube!!!

  48. ET
    The middle class segment of Egypt is relatively small compared to the illiterate masses the end result of a democratic vote would have those people presumably vote the muslim brotherhood into power. Just because the current protesters want “freedom” doesn’t mean they will be the driving force in the “free” Egypt. It’s just like Iran, Ahmadinejhad’s base is the rural populace not the protesting urbanites. Hell look at Lebanon, they ousted Syria only to be ruled by a Persian-Syrian proxy. It was all for naught.
    I’m not even sure what they mean by “freedom” and “democracy”. I doubt it means a pluralistic society where they stop blowing up Coptic Christians. I think there’s always a danger of imposing our idea of “good life” onto other people who’s idea of a good life may just be to club an assyrian. Every ideology wants to be free but does it mean free from government intervention? inequality? jews? or some other grievance?
    Just because European society evolved the way it has doesn’t mean it is repeatable. They may find a whole new way of organizing their society. One that alleviates the stresses of society whilst remaining wholly unpalatable to us. That would be the worst case scenario. More than likely they’ll just start a war with Israel.
    The evolution of Islamic society is essentially a moot point because in they transition period they would almost certainly at odds with our slowly dying one. I doubt our society can stave off a collapse anyways at the rate we’re going so maybe it doesn’t matter. Maybe one day they’ll adopt a nice and free society but by then our children will already have been impaled by swords and/or other things. 😛

  49. Iraq has made real progress, but remember US armed forces played a crucial part in eliminating Al Qaeda in Iraq, and in many ways making it abundantly clear that an Islamist state would not/will not be tolerated.
    Would Iraq have made its progress without the US forces? Will Egypt acquire a stable, non-threatening government to replace Mubarak? Only if the Egyptian army is willing to suppress the Muslim Brotherhood, and other Islamist groups. Of course, if the MB is part of the new government, how likely is it that the army will be permitted such latitude?
    If the MB is part of any new government, in any way, it is much more likely that Egypt will become the next terrorist state in the Middle East, with El Baradei ( himself a very aggressive protector of Iran against the US, when he headed IAEA ) serving mereley as an acceptable ( to Barry ) figurehead. The students in the street will be no match for the ruthlessness of the Muslim Brotherhood, and their wishes are essentially meaningless in a post-Mubarak Egypt.

  50. Well well Albaradei is threatening the President, the guy has lived outside of Egypt for thirty years and now he’s acting like Dear Leader.
    Story here: http://weaselzippers.us/2011/02/02/elbaradei-warns-mubarak-leave-country-by-friday-or-youll-be-a-dead-man-walking/
    Snippet: Egyptian uprising idol Mohammed ElBaradei has ordered Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to leave the country by Friday – or he will be a “dead man walking” and not just a lame-duck president.
    The aging Egyptian leader, reportedly suffering from cancer, insists he will remain in power. He said Tuesday night, “This dear country is my country … and I will die on its land.”
    Mubarak dramatically announced

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