A Tel Aviv University team excavating a cave in central Israel said teeth found in the cave are about 400,000 years old and resemble those of other remains of modern man, known scientifically as Homo sapiens, found in Israel. The earliest Homo sapiens remains found until now are half as old.
“It’s very exciting to come to this conclusion,” said archaeologist Avi Gopher, whose team examined the teeth with X-rays and CT scans and dated them according to the layers of earth where they were found.
He stressed that further research is needed to solidify the claim. If it does, he says, “this changes the whole picture of evolution.”
I’ve always thought that ‘science’s’ insistence that mankind came from Africa was rooted in white European racism. Some Europeans would say that the wide nose and slopping forehead of some native Africans made them look like African great apes. Since mankind ‘evolved’ from great apes wouldn’t it make sense that the two species living side by side would still look alike?
i dunno…an archaeologist named avi “gopher”…expatiating with wonderment upon teeth?
…i sense a willing or charitably of course an unwilling bias on mr ‘gopher’s’ part….i could be nuts of course…but still…
is it just me or does this kind of mind shit happen to anyone else?…anyone?
I recently came across another article about different scientific methods being applied to the stratified ruins of an ancient city in northern Israel. Interesting stuff.
http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/26/armageddon-fortress-may-hold-keys-to-biblical-history/?test=latestnews
How long till the claims that he was a palestinian and muslim ?
I think he means “of our understanding of human evolution”.
Since it would, well, have no great effect on evolution as an explanation for speciation in general.
“this changes the whole picture of evolution.”
And of creation or what is called now? Intelligent design? How does this affect that?
Re Related: “This study is the latest to suggest that, far from being brutish savages, Neanderthals were more like us than we previously thought.”
However, if they don’t give up their belief in Islam they will never achieve human status.
This article appears to miss the point completely. The important fact is that Neanderthal (if it was he?) used fire … which created global warming which brought upon him the next ice-age, leading to Mr. Neanderthal’s destruction, in a god-like thunderbolt of irony.
Funny how creationists reject anything that counters their faith even though they have no tangible proof of their own.
I guess that’s the definition of faith, isn’t it?
“Funny how evolutionists reject anything that counters their faith even though they have no tangible proof of their own.”
There fixed it for you allan
On a sensible note for the moment; science is never “settled”.
It is good someone is doing dentistry on Neanderthals (lets face it, they bneeded it but it’s maybe a bit late).
However, what I do not like is always the ideological slant given to these things – was Neanderthal vegan? blah blah blah …. this is why one must just look at the facts mam, just the facts.
” “Funny how evolutionists reject anything that counters their faith even though they have no tangible proof of their own.”
There fixed it for you allan ”
That’s so dumb. Are you so fixated on your belief that you can’t admit that the evidence at least points toward evolution? Can you even see that the evidence points toward evolution? It really does.
Whether it’s true that all animals evolved from other species or not is irrelevant. ALL the evidence points toward evolution and NONE of the evidence points toward creationism, and to suggest otherwise is ignorant at best, and outright BS at worst.
Anyway back to Kate’s original point that science is never settled. At it’s most basic definition science is never settled, it’s a constant process of trial and error and improvement of theories.
Wanna bet those teeth are circumcised ?
@ TOM
ROTFLMAO!!! So true how funny is that !! Ha ha
Thanks for the laugh bud!!
“NONE the evidence points toward evolution”
There fixed that one too.
One can infer evolution not prove it.
One can infer creation not prove it.
Both are taken by their adherents on faith not proof.
Joe is correct in that there is still no proof of man evolving from apes; which makes it a matter of faith. One does not need to believe the Biblical account of creation to understand this. What I do have a big problem with is when a theory is being taught and pushed as scientific fact.
Well that is prety cool, lets keep looking, how about we just gather the data and expand our knowledge. Silly I know but me loves the digs for what they find,the end.
…dated them according to the layers of earth where they were found.
Ah, leaves a little room for interpretation…
An archaeologist named gopher???? That sounds a bit Second Cityish.
“…….it could mean that modern man in fact originated in what is now Israel.”
It could also mean that modern man originated from somewhere else entirely, simply that even older evidence has not yet been found. The truth is, to anyone with the slightest grasp of reality, that archeological “science” is a pack politically correct lies that academia has thrust on the “little people”. For our own benefit no doubt.
You need to follow their research and findings because well we don’t do any of our own. Yet if you take the time to sift through their findings without your attention diverted by their misdirection, you see a very different picture. For certain you see that they are hiding things, not unlike Global Warming.
The inherent philosophy of these intellectual liberal turds is that it is just better that we only know what’s good for us, but please keep the funding coming……….
The fact that evolution cannot be proven is why we have global warming.
Many scientists have given up on proving evolution and have moved on to other areas, such as environmentalism and AGW. David Suzuki was studying fruit flies (with the ability to produce 25 generations a year, fruit flies are great for watching evolution — nothing much has happened in the century or more that fruit flies have been studied to death — in the lab or in nature). Suzuki got tired of watching the flies and decided to get into environmentalism and then global warming.
Well ok, that is just a theory.
400,000 yrs old?
that carbon dating system is getting as far fetched as the global warming settled science!
“What I do have a big problem with is when a theory is being taught and pushed as scientific fact.”
You mean, like, AGW?
I hate that, too.
mhb23re at gmail d0t calm
More teeth found? I have reason to believe these are human teeth, due to the location. I recall another set of teeth that had the ‘scientific world’ in a tizzy and they turned out to be a pig tooth.
http://www.evolutiondeceit.com/chapter9.php
Kate were you just in the mood for another creation/evolution debate?
Oldest H.Sapiens remains currently known is ~200,000 yrs old AFAIK. Pushing it back to 400,000 means re-writing a lot of theory and assumptions based on the 200,000 number. It will be interesting to see what this find finally dates to.
Every time somebody comes up with a new thing like this I love it, because it shakes the dust off all the layers of crap that build up since the last discovery.
Creationists please note, finding an older sample does not disprove Evolution as a concept, but it does disprove any speculation regarding why no older sample had been previously found. “Out of Africa” is a hypothesis that this discovery could knock a hole in IF it proves out.
The Phantom
Nothing is ever settled.
Evolutionists please note, finding an older sample does not prove evolution as a concept.
It simply shows us that we are not near as smart as we love to believe.
Nothing is written…or really settled.
The notion that Neanderthal was dim-witted has long since been called to question. In our arrogance we assumed that without a basis. Then that Neaderthal was mute because of no hyoid bone….then a Neanderthal remains appeared with a hyoid bone.
There was a remarkable amount of speculation (including aliens) about Cro Magnon “suddenly” appearing during the last Ice Age about 50,000 years past with no earlier specimens then the 200,000 YBP popped up…now this.
Neanderthals reverently buried their dead with flowers and mineral deposits now suggest they may have tattooed thenselves.
The notion that Neaderthal was exterminated by the smaller, “smarter” Cro Magnon was plausable…..but evidence of Neanderthal’s intelligence disputes that.
I suspect it was likely cultural….that Cro Magnon was a more treacherous, efficient killer….the Cain of Genesis.
Homo Sapiens’ evolution from great apes is likely….the DNA of Man and Chimpanzees is 95%+ identical.
This find and the interpretation of it illustrate good science at work: formulate a hypothesis, test it against available evidence, modify it in the face of new evidence. By contrast, “Anthropogenic Global Warming” or “Climate Change” or “Climate Instability” is an ill-defined hypothesis with no consistent data set, no falsifiable parameters making no useable predictions.
“How long till the claims that he was a palestinian and muslim ?
Posted by: tom at December 27, 2010 6:55 PM”
LMAO, Tom! Good one! And also maybe the first Pali Muzzie Martyr? If so, he surely got his 72 Neanderthal virgins.
If the Neanderthal women were on the same ugliness level as their men, that’s not much of a reward. Think Helen Thomas.
“How long till the claims that he was a palestinian and muslim ?
Posted by: tom at December 27, 2010 6:55 PM”
LMAO, Tom! Good one! And also maybe the first Pali Muzzie Martyr? If so, he surely got his 72 Neanderthal virgins.
If the Neanderthal women were on the same ugliness level as their men, that’s not much of a reward. Think Helen Thomas.
Phantom, it’s because creationists do not really understand science. In science, there is no “last word”. Instead science simply presents the state of the universe as current knowledge makes possible.
Also note that this discovery purports to be Homo Sapiens. However, the oldest members of the Homo genus by far are still those in Africa. On the face of it, all that this limited report suggests is an earlier migration period.
It should also be observed that 400,000 years is getting a bit long for C-14 dating. That’s nearly 70 half lives, so there may be some problem with precision of measurement.
Now, can we finally have an admission from the creationists that Bishop Ussher was wrong?
No, Joe, racism has nothing to do with it. Science attributed origin to Africa because it has all of the oldest species of the Homo genus found to date stretching back millions of years.
Alain, you too don’t understand how science works and you are suggesting a false equivalency between science and religion. Mathematics is based on proof; science is based on evidence and what that evidence tells you at the time. At this time the preponderance of evidence suggests the general theory of evolution by means of natural selection. That is not an act of faith; it’s what the evidence says today.
cgh please understand this. Science is a religion.
Joe, please understand this.
By claiming science to be a religion you’ve just demonstrated that you understand neither one.
Keep in mind that only Europeans have Neanderthal genes in their codes. So you can’t say that Neanderthals invented a habit thousands of years before other groups.
racism!
cgh…your agument is typical.
However, my understanding of science that we can depend on, is that it attempts to rule out assumptions, not continue to proclaim assumptions as fact.
The theory of evolution is based on too many assumptions including the attempt to determine the age of specimens.
Human anatomy and physiology leads us to very specific chemical, electrical, physiological functions that would leave no room for an ‘in between stage’. The heart is an excellent example of perfect design.
cgh: The signs of a false religion is its adherents claiming anyone who disagrees with them ‘just doesn’t understand’. Its intellectual laziness that keeps its adherents ‘on the plantation’. Why even to question it is prove you’re too stupid to understand it. If you have any intellectual honesty you question it! The science is never settled.
….the DNA of Man and Chimpanzees is 95%+ identical.
So? The DNA of man and banana are 60% the same, what does that prove?
I re-iterate.
Nothing is ever settled.
I suppose it could be said that a Smart Car and a D9 Caterpillar Tractor both evolved from a Roman Chariot because they all move on wheels but to say the Roman Chariot, Smart Car or D9 came into existence by pure chance is ridiculous. Yes apes and humanity share a common DNA. What did you expect? It shows a common Creator as much as it shows a common ancestor. Oh I know admitting a Creator is not ‘scientific’ but ruling out a Creator is equally unscientific.
Nothing is ever settled.
So the enemy would have you believe, chaos is their favorite companion.
Bluetech: define “too many assumptions”. The rest of your argument is merely intelligent design nonsense. No, science is not a mere ruling out of assumptions. It is an attempt to assemble the simplest explanation for all the facts as they are known at any given time.
Joe: Thomas Aquinas answered this question about half a millenium ago. It’s the purest form of intellectual laziness to not even understand your own philosophical base, let alone that which you oppose. Science is indeed never settled; it evolves constantly. It’s your lack of honesty that makes you insist it’s merely another religion when it is nothing of the kind.
Your understanding of evolution is lamentable to say the least. No you cannot say that a Smart Car evolved from a chariot, unless you’re going to tell me you’ve ever seen a car repair itself. Both of these are inanimate artifacts. Evolution does not rule out a creator; it simply says there is a scientific explanation that does not require divine intervention to produce the origin of species.
“The signs of a false religion is its adherents claiming anyone who disagrees with them ‘just doesn’t understand.”
The sign of any religion is the search for false ones for purposes of burning the heretics. Best be careful; your intolerance is starting to show through. And while you’re at it, please define false religion as opposed to a true religion.
I’ll start taking you seriously when you stop attributing to evolution claims that it does not make.
@fiddle…
Chaos is simultaneously a concept and a fact…go figure.
If you notice cgh I have deliberately never ruled out one or the other. I simply have taken time to point out inconsistencies in your favourite theory. You on the other hand are making assumptions of which you have no verification with regard to my understanding and training.
Over at Bourque, he claims it is Steven Harpers fault that there is a problem with the age of the neanderthal, he says they should have contacted next of kin for positive ID, LIKE PHONE IGGY and the liberals. Right Peeair.
Kewl. “More research is needed”. How true. This is a coded request for funding. No doubt this will result in several needy and deserving research assistants becoming employed. I can only hope that these assistants are drawn from the neediest in society. Bravo! Heads will explode over such statements, of course, but on the whole, we have an opportunity to ‘spread the wealth’, and further the cause of Economic Justice, and what person with a sound heart could not be for that ethos?
400000 years is a huge jump , I thought the Levant was occupied more like 40k years ago. though I like this , as the 40000 level means major migration during the Wisconson glacial maximum . I like an earlier out of Africa timeline and a mixing theory.
proudly 4% Neanderthal
The only people who scream and vehemently promote the out of Africa theory are black people and liberal whites.
Even the average Chinese don’t buy it; they have a Peking Man Theory of their own.
There just has to be a welfare entitlement connection, because this is the only proven philosophy that binds the above mentioned alliance.
My great-granny lost her dentures while on a pilgrimage to the Holy Land in 1956. Apparently they have been found!
A species adapting to its environment is not evolution. Species do not adapt into a different species. Evolution contends that all living things evolved from a single cell via the big bang – that is the evolutions bottom line explanation. That is the first truth, fact that evolution offers that you must believe to buy in to the theroy, and quite frankly, if one will belive that then they are capapable of believing all the deep highly technical explainations that only “intelligent” people can really understand despite there being absolutely no evidence of one species changing or even adapting into another.
To be an evolutionist one must believe that amphibians, mammals and reptiles all share the same mother cell that magically appeared after a big explosion, yet for whatever long winded highly technical reason, some fish chose to just remain fish and not continue on into turning into birds as did many snakes. Apparently some monkeys were just content being monkey’s and were not interested in evolving into the ape or human option.
Darwin was a highly skilled salesman and nothing more, he used the same sales psychology that is used today using the same techique as Bernie Madoff – exclusivity of the inner circle of those in the “know” – the theory of evolution is a ponzie scheme and it has entered the too big to fail category.
I don’t wish to debate evolution, there always seems to be too many hurt or angry feelings for those that believe in their faith in creation. What I don’t understand is why evolution simply cannot be apart of the creation theory?
To me at least it’s far more interesting to think of intelligent design than the flash of a magical wand. It’s far more beautiful to me at least to envision a creator with the intelligence and patience to grow modern humans from seedlings of the most basic elemental form over millions or billions of years.
But whatever, since we’ll probably never know the real truth, a little clay baked mud and the wave of an invisible hand is as good as any. Kinda takes the poop out of it for me though.
Of course there are thousands of other faith based creation stories throughout history and the world today, but I suppose those don’t count cause their just plain stupid. Much better that we follow the ways of nomadic Israeli scribes borrowing from earlier Egyptian, Babylonian and Sumerian scribes, than from Hindu, Chinese, ancient South/ Central American, early European etcetera.
Oops sorry to rant, I suspect I’ll be well hated or pitied after that by some.
As a condolence, I am not anti religion, an atheist, or anti Christian in anyway. I respect all good religions and believe they have a valid place in the societies they have thrived in. There is a reason that Hinduism is accepted and works so well in India and Islam works well in Muslim countries. Simply they do not work so well in our countries. Religion is the fabric that supports the cultures from which they were born. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion it creates harmony in a complex society and adds a certain level of safety from government if used correctly.