The high price of magical thinking;
The Danish study finds that the energy technology sector in Denmark from 1999 to 2006 underperformed the broader manufacturing sector in Denmark by an average of 13% in terms of value added, reducing Danish GDP by approximately $270-million compared to what it would have been if the wind sector workforce was employed elsewhere. The Danish Economic Council concluded in a report in 2006: “The wind power expansion in the 1990s is an example of a policy that was unprofitable from society’s point of view, even taking the economic advantages that the wind business enjoyed into consideration.” The Centre for Policy Studies study concludes: “Denmark needs a proper debate and a thorough reappraisal of the technologies that need to be invented, developed, and costed before forcing the country into a venture that shows a high risk of turning into an economic black hole.”
h/t Manotick
Nice point.
I wonder whether anyone has calculated the costs of massive government against GDP in a country like, say, Canada. You have to wonder, however, what on earth all those bureaucrats would do if they weren’t busy managing the rest of us.
I wonder why our governments don’t look at what is happening in other countries. Spain found that it lost two jobs for every one green job created. But we can do it better!!
The model that has served us well for at least three generations is fizzling out. I haven’t read the books (Gibbon), but it is my understanding that one of the reasons Rome fell was that you had a huge number of citizens…real, voting citizens with nothing to do. Bread and circuses kept these fine folks out of trouble and voting correctly, or it was supposed to. So whether by clever design or accident, we rely on a system of make – work that not only keeps citizens out of mischief, but gives meaning and purpose to those lives… a heck of a lot healthier than going down to the Colosseum and waggling the thumb every day, not just weekends + Monday night.
But everybody wants bigger and better. So I’ll cut to the chase….maybe making expensive windmills is a damn fine idea. It’s probably superior to building the bigger and better SUVs people demand, certainly in tiny Denmark if not in uncrowded, long distance Canada. Ties in with the Chicken Little – “Ohhhhh the sky is falling” meme, at least, which has turned out so badly for desperate politicians, even though it has lost much of its punch. I don’t think the Danes are up for a space program, which would be my first choice. And, let’s face it, practically impossible to sell politically, even though it’s a perfect solution to the “sky is falling” threat.
“Denmark needs a proper debate and a thorough reappraisal of the technologies that need to be invented …” – I guess if the gov’t strikes a committee they’ll be able to figure out what needs to be invented – because that’s what gov’t does so well.
If the city of Toronto were to be powered by wind mills, the installation would take the land mass of Prince Edward Island.
Plus the danger to birds, bats etc.. would be devastating.
Yes old & grouchy,We can do much better.We will lose 4 jobs for every one created.We will set a world record for job losses.It is so pitiful,this green scam that it at times becomes hilarious.For instance the wind farm in the great lakes that Ontario is going to build along the flight pattern of migratory birds.killing thousands of birds is no laughing matter McGuinty..But it gets better in Ontario in July,Canada,s birthday we we all be honoured with an 8% hst tax hike.So what is funnier,haha the tax hike or the green wind farm haha.Stop it my sides are splitting with the laughter.Oh did i mention another perhaps million going on welfare because they cant afford the 8% increase in everything.It just keeps getting funnier and funnier and then the whole country will be in a food line up.HAHA…Geez when does the stupidity end???
Wind as a power source was abandoned in the 19th century…..not because we ran outa wind…any more than the stone age ended because we ran outa rocks.
Cheaper and more reliable sources replaced it.
It’s not rocket science.
A line of giant windmills from Windsor to the Quebec border would not be sufficient to allow the closing of the Nanticoke coal generating plant. Denmark finally figured out that the wind doesn’t blow every day, something that McGuinty has not stumbled on yet. The wind “farms” would displace valuable agricultural land formerly used to grow food and raise livestock.
Insanity is rarely profitable or efficient.
My guess is that the only “green” energy that may be really technologically and financially viable is tidal power generation.
However, as always, that’d have to be fought tooth & nail with The Usual Suspect eco-wackos. It’s a safe prediction that it’ll be alleged to endanger some tidal bacteria or beachside pond scum or some other such BS.
Reading this thread also reminded me of that other thread that Kate put up some time back. That was about how a German engineer and a German physicist showed that the average manufacturing energy input to make even the very latest solar cells greatly exceeded their average total energy output until MTBF, “mean time before failure”.
In other words, “green” energy = red ink, energy-wise, employment-wise and financially.
(Now counting down until the usual non-rational counter-comment from a greenie…)
“”Denmark needs a proper debate and a thorough reappraisal of the technologies that need to be invented …”” Ummmmmmmm…maybe somebody should tell these public tit leeches that it was “invented” at the Big Bang.It’s called the radioactive atom,or nuclear energy,if you prefer.Now if we could just start feeding the greenies/politicos some uranium/plutonium to make them radioactive,they might make great fuel rods!
Denmark recently approved the construction of 2 new natural gas power stations and a third is planned all in the 1,000Mw range. This is to fill the hole left by using wind to reach 18% of capacity (not supply) and only being able to generate about 35% of that, and of that amount they can only use about 25% themselves because of load/demand/time issues, the rest they sell to Germany when it is available.
So if the world leader in Wind Power Technology cannot make it work for their own country, I guess the real race is what Obama says it is; “the leader in exporting Green Technology will lead the world”. Makes sense everyone else will be struggling to survive on your crappy green technology that you bind them to via the UNFCCC while you rake in the money from your population via energy taxes to fund research into things everyone knows does not work when scaled up, but can be built and exported anyways.
So the US Energy Plan as is looks to me to be a winner. I mean really if Denmark is doing it and they are such a global economic juggernaut….(obligitory eye roll)… then it should work for the USA!
Omigod, you mean what power economists and engineers have been saying since, oh, FOREVER is true?!
Next you’ll be telling that AGW is an unproven hypothesis barely support by a wisp of confusing statistical evidence.
And that massive indebtedness and shoveling costs on future generations is immoral and wrong.
And that our western politicians are collectively possesed of an IQ in the low double digits.
Justthinkin
Actually Denmark has used NET no wind power. It is exported to Sweden and Norway to get Swedish nuclear and Norwegian hydro. Norway buys the wind power to augment/save the water in their reservoirs.
It’s just nuts…….
Denmark is building NG generators because the wind is useless and a money loser.
The main benefit Denmark got was exporting windmills to idiot governments…….not wind energy.
“Partly mesmerized by Danish wind industry propaganda, the Ontario government has embarked upon a similar exercise in economic and environmental folly. When the full costs of this misadventure are revealed — billions of dollars over the next 20years — the province’s recent financial scandals at the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Commission and eHealth will seem trivial in comparison. This is the real political scandal in Ontario, upon which we should all be focusing our attention.”
Okay,Ontarians, time to get “active”! And I hope to hell this lunacy will stop in Ontario,before it infects the West. (Faint hope,I know)
Manitoba’s stony broke, they might as well embark on a windmill project using Other People’s money.Portage & Main in Winnipeg is famous for it’s winds,so tear down all the buildings and install giant windmills!
I can’t remember the exact date the lunatics took control of the asylum, but they sure have complete control now.
I heard on the radio that a new Vancouver Island wind farm would power, get this, a city grid for 53,000 people. What a laugh. These people need to get a grip on the decimal system.
Until we develop some practical methods of storing electricity, wind and solar will remain the alluring temptress of the energy sector. Beautiful to look at and imagine what it would be like…. only to discover that its flirting ruined the only stable relationship in your life.
In addition to Tidal, one other area of sustainable common sense green energy is Geothermal.
A great Canadian story is Nevada Geothermal (V-NGP) based in Vancouver. They just brought a 40MW plant online in October. The advantage of this technology is that it produces 40MW 24 hours per day, 365 days per year – with no imputs required such as coal or nat gas.
It makes not only good green sense, it’s also very economical over the long term, without price fluxuations as there are no imputs.
A link to an analyst report (Dudnee Wealth Management):
http://www.cangea.ca/images/uploads/_ac_uploads/April_1_-_NGP_-_Dundee.pdf
Al Gore’s Weather (AGW): “circle and wait.”
…-
“Big Bird meets Big Green
3 04 2010
Ecotretas writes in with this sad video.
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First time I’ve seen an image of a big bird going down due to wind energy:”
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/04/03/big-bird-meets-big-green/#more-18142
In addition to Tidal, one other area of sustainable common sense green energy is Geothermal.
but geothermal still needs electricity to pump water through it. Plus it costs a fortune to build and maintain.
Big scale is silly, even when set in shallows. No agri-land wasted
It is the stepping and xmission losses that eat up any advantage.
However, on your garage roof it’s a no loss direct feed and no monthly bill.
http://windenergy7.com/
Tony 16 grand for a noisy yard, no thanks I’ll flip a switch.
No one seems to be asking the question about why Premier Dalton McGuinty signed a sole source contract, with a bonus, with Samsung when this company is under investigation in Korea for a massive bribery scandal. Does Samsung even manufacture wind turbines? Why hasn’t this been brought to the public’s attention by the PC Opposition?
Why hasn’t this been brought to the public’s attention by the PC Opposition?
Because is the frog dropped into the blender by the GTA attitude years back.
3 Garage mounted turbines = noisy yard?
Not at all!
These installers demo video with live mic.
http://windenergy7.com/