Mark Steyn:
I try to be a sunny the-glass-is-one-sixteenth-full kinda guy, but it’s hard to overestimate the magnitude of what the Democrats have accomplished….
Mathew Vadum:
America suffered an atrocity of catastrophic proportions last night and it’s not clear if the nation will ever recover.
David Horowitz:
The President was right about one thing. The vote on Obamacare tonight was a historic one. The Democratic Party has…revealed itself to be an anti-democratic Party and an anti-liberty party. It is a party that has demonstrated its contempt for the Constitutional framework, for the democratic process, and for the expressed will of the American people. Its brazen contempt for the compact that holds the diverse factions of this country together has initiated a political war at home that will extend not only into the next elections but into the next generations….The people of this nation are still sovereign, and their voice will be heard. Tonight’s vote was lost but it is not the end of the battle. It is the beginning.
From the “Idaho Health Freedom Act”, passed last week:
The power to require or regulate a person’s choice in the mode of securing health care services, or to impose a penalty related thereto, is not found in the Constitution of the United States of America, and is therefore a power reserved to the people pursuant to the Ninth Amendment, and to the several states pursuant to the Tenth Amendment. The state of Idaho hereby exercises its sovereign power to declare the public policy of the state of Idaho regarding the right of all persons residing in the state of Idaho in choosing the mode of securing health care services.
It is hereby declared that the public policy of the state of Idaho, consistent with our constitutionally recognized and inalienable rights of liberty, is that every person within the state of Idaho is and shall be free to choose or decline to choose any mode of securing health care services without penalty or threat of penalty.
The thread is open for your comments, quotes, links, etc.
The Dems ran on health care funding reform ( among other things) , they won the presidency and majorities in both houses. They passed the bill. Calling it unfair/undemocratic is a bit silly.
As for the process Bismarck said” Two things you never want to see getting made legislation and sausages”
Bismarck also brought in socialized medicine over a century ago.
I’ve seen numerous arguments over the last 6 months that the US health (spam filter bait deleted) legislation is unconstitutional. Obviously the state of Idaho believes this and I suspect that other states will follow. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out but don’t expect the big zero to compromise in any way. The last time there was a major dispute over states rights vs those of the federal government we got the US civil war.
Actually phantom, your side has already lost. The big issue is that once the benefits from the bill are enacted the vast majority of Americans will like them. Repeal the bill?!? I’m not sure the GOP wants to be the party saying ‘no more protections for people with pre-existing conditions’, ‘we’re removing the new seniors benefits”, etc.
Americans come election time are not going to be ready for a proposal to open up and redebate health care all over again. This time was long enough. They’ll at the very least be giving the bill a chance and that’s why it won’t be a major election issue.
We win. You lose.
I have a really hard time feeling any pity for the US. Yes the bill passed is a nightmare that will doom some to a premature death but the fact remains that the President, Congress and Senate were all ELECTED in a free and democratic election. If there is anyone to blame it is the American people for electing what is most likely corrupt government currently in power in a western democracy.
The only piece of legislation I can thank Jean Chretien for is the Electoral Financing Act and until the Americans come up with something similar the candidates will be more beholden to the big donors for their election/re-election than the average man on the street.
Gord:
The slippery slope?
Bribery..something you can take to the bank.
Bismarck said” Two things you never want to see getting made legislation and sausages”
Bismarck also brought in socialized medicine over a century ago.
~gray
Yeah, he said that because he didn’t want people to see what the legislators were up to.
Now that the Soylent Union Corporation is about to get a monopoly on the sausage making, I’ll want to see the sausages made too, just so I know what’s going into them.
On a further note, if I were bambam I would hope like heii to lose in the 2010 elections. Yeh he’ll go mouth for them but he has no one to blame but himself Reid and Pelosi. I hope Pelosi goes first.
Larry:
To quell the pre-existing conditions demonization, the bill makes health insurance mandatory.
So, the big winners in all this are private insurers, whose stocks have risen 20% in the last year.
Therefore, it appears Obama demonizes insurance companies on one hand while giving them an additional source of income with another.
Nice trick and just watch the millions of dollars of thanks going back into the Obama campaign in 2012.
Who wins in the bill as currently written?
I’d guess those people who were smart enough to buy insurance company stock a year ago.
Bwahahahaha.
Larry, you don’t know what’s actually in the bill, do you? Let the the shoosting begin…
“The Dems ran on health care funding reform (among other things….They passed the bill. Calling it unfair/undemocratic is a bit silly.” – gray (5:14 pm)
They *didn’t* run on this, gray. During the presidential campaign and while he was stumping for his plan while he was in office, Obama –
“…promised that his plan for ‘health-care reform’ would not cause any individuals or families to lose their health-care plans, would not be paid for by cutting seniors’ Medicare benefits, would not bend the health-care cost curve up (but instead would bend it down), would not raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 a year, would not raise Americans’ health-insurance premiums (but instead would lower them), would not put the federal government in control of health care, would not require Americans to buy health insurers’ product under penalty of law, would not cost more than $2 trillion over ten years, would not raise deficits, would not provide taxpayer funding for abortion, would increase competition and choice, would leave what’s good in place while fixing what’s broken, and would be bipartisan.”
What the Dems have done can’t be compared to either legislation or sausage-making. This thousand pound document the Democrats are attempting to smash the Constitution with is not a legislation, but a colossal Trojan Horse.
Will someone care to tell me how Obama plans on paying for this?
He has derailed America and he damn well knows it.
I don’t understand this “we win, you lose” nonsense, at least as far as it applies to non-Americans, which is most of the readers & commenters here at SDA. What is going on in the U.S. is a matter for the Americans to decide, moreover, it has no significant effect on non-Americans. Sure, there are those who are predicting that “this will change everything”, and an endless litany of other things they know will happen, but they are simply being silly, or at least grossly premature. Of course, I’d expect no less from the statistical norm in a medium that over-attracts those ill from pessimism.
Niels Bohr said, “Prediction is very difficult, especially of the future”, and Stephen Hawking said “Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end”. Some folks should think about that. On the other hand, since there is no actual win/lose proposition when posting a comment, especially when done anonymously, most people don’t really care if they are correct or incorrect, they are just spiritually depressed and need some place to shoot off their mouth.
Why wait for November? Why wait until Obama tries to force another socialist program down our throats? Now is not the time to shrivel away. Now is the time to stand up and fight back harder then ever before. Now is the time to take the fight to them. Will you join us on a campaign to DESTROY THE MOUTHPIECE OF OBAMA’S SOCIALIST AGENDA, THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA? WE ARE IN A FIGHT FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY, A FIGHT FOR OUR CHILDREN’S FUTURE. Join the fight here,http://sosssn.blogspot.com/
A truly historic event for the USA! As President Obama stated this is what change looks like. While not being a panacea for all of the health care woes, at least over 32 million Americans that did not previously have health care coverage due to an inability to afford it or preexisting conditions will now be covered. Too bad the coverage did not extend to elective abortions, however, a compromise had to be made to appease the bible thumpers. Perhaps that coverage can be brought in through the back door in the future. A great step for America toward socialized medicine. Some arm twisting by Pelosi and Obama, but they prevailed. Good job!
The damage that this health bill has done to Obama’s popularity and credibility remind me of the damage that Meech Lake and Charlottetown Accords did to Brian Mulroney’s credibility and historic majority governments.
No amount of money was able to rebuild it and the people still voted NO to the Charlottetown Accord.
The Progressive Conservative Party of Canada was meted out unprecedented devastation in the next election and never recovered.
T, I realise you’re a troll and I’m probably wasting my time but I’ll say it anyway: There. Is. NO. Money.
Something tells me you’ve never had to pay for a single thing in your entire life. If you think this bill is utterly wonderful, kick in the money for it.
Set you free, a lot of stocks rose last year as markets generally recovered. No denying that this aids insurance companies, but it also helps people and is a big step toward a public option. >:-)
Osumashi: The USA has never had trouble finding money for its military or when it wanted to wage war. Nor did it have any trouble finding money for tax breaks to corporate America. The money for this will be found and be for a far better purpose.
gray- the democrats may have run on health care reform but this does not mean that they ran on this particular bill. After all, the Republicans also promote health care reform, but their reform does not put health care into the control of a massive govt bureaucracy.
The problem that this bill has for non-Americans is that it changes the fiscal and ideological infrastructure of the US.
Fisically, taxpayers are equated to non-taxpayers, thus the active agency of the individual in the ‘pursuit of happiness’ – and innovation, entrepreneurship and exceptionalism is removed. You get the same results for working as for not working.
Ideologically not only does the power and focus of the individual as controlling agent in his life disappear – and this type of individual is the backbone of the vanishing middle class – but a new Guardian class, an elitist set of Wise Rulers emerges to control and rule over the hapless population. This Set who are outside of the Law, as are so many of the current Set in the White House, set up a massive bureaucracy to run the country. You don’t; they do.
Notice this current WH’s contempt for Congress and for the will of the people, and the Constitution. Remember that Obama insisted that His stimulus bill be passed without Congress reading or debating it. Hmm.
And this current bill has been the result of backroom deals and promises.
It’s unheard of for States to mount a court challenges to the federal govt and yet, this is the next step.
So much for Obama’s ‘non-partisan’ govt; he’s used race as a key calling card, he’s pit Democrats and Republicans against each other, set the MSM against each other, rejected the people’s right to dissent and debate, and now, has the States against the federal govt.
So T… when are you moving to the socialist paradise that the USA is rapidly becoming? We need to replace folks like you with hardworking entrepreneurs who generate wealth rather than consume it without producing anything. I’ll make a deal with teat-sucking Canadian lefties: move to the US and we’ll import one or more redneck, conservative, gun-loving, hard-working, small-government American for each of you. That way, you can have paradise on Earth in Bam-bam’s “we win, you lose sucka” and we’ll take all the unwanted right-wing riff-raff. Win-win proposition if I ever heard one.
Some situations are win-lose propositions, Vitruvius. You are certainly entitled to your own view that this has no significant effect on non-Americans, that it’s nonsense to view this situation as a win-lose proposition, and to invoke the idea that on a celestial time-scale it all doesn’t matter – that this billion-year context obviates the importance of what’s happening to what has been the freest country on earth – and you’re free, it’s patently obvious, to suggest that others would be well-advised to look at it the same way you do. I’m free to point out that any sensible person should understand that any didactic argument that is based in entirety on the teacher’s own mood should be taken with a grain of salt, and that it has no universal applicability whatsoever. You don’t care about what’s just happened in the US? That’s no one else’s business, at all, Vitruvius, it’s completely your call. You don’t think others should care? That, too, is entirely your prerogative. But I respectfully suggest that no one else needs, nor asked for, your instruction on the matter.
At American Thinker, C. Edmund Wright gets it right:
“We have the debate over ObamaCare to thank for one thing, at least: the treating of the preexisting childlike delusion that bipartisanship is possible, let alone desirable, when the other side is the Obama Democrats.
“It is neither. And it never has been nor ever will be as long as there is a segment of a society that wishes to control the wealth and activities of other segments of society. With such people, there are only two options. Either you defeat them — or they defeat you. If you strive to get along with them, you will awaken one day to the fact that they have won. Period.
(…)
“Conservatives desire control of one’s own destiny. Liberals seek to control everyone else’s destiny. These two desires by definition cannot coexist peacefully. To pretend they can, in the spirit of bi-partisanship, is frankly infantile. Yet so many purporting to be the brightest still cling to that notion.”
(…)
“It may sound enlightened to want Washington ‘to work together for the American people,’ but it is becoming evident that this is impossible when one part of our government wants to control the American people.”
“The only remedy is to defeat such people…”
“Americans come election time are not going to be ready for a proposal to open up and redebate health care all over again.”
I’m thinking at that come election time the Republicans will have enough votes that there won’t be a discussion. They will just replace a lot of the Dem plan with their own plan.
They won’t need to discuss anything with the Dem’s and I doubt they will even ask for input from them.
After all they are running on repealing this bill so if they win they will actually have a real mandate to do this. Not like the Dem’s sorta/kinda mandate.
There’s plenty of over-reaction here to what is essentially a rewrite of the rules regulating private insurance companies.
Anybody have something against rules?
Republicans can change the game back if they allow insurers a larger base and would allow them to operate nationwide.
If a single-payer state-run plan is the endgame, then private insurance companies can compete quite well if the restriction to operate within state boundaries are lifted.
It seems only be fair.
Doesn’t Mark Steyn ever get tired of being caustic, concise and correct? Mr. Steyn (PBUH) hit the nail on the head by pointing out that in-surance is “the ability of underwriters to competitively underwrite risk”. Ergo, if in-surance companies do not get to competitively underwrite risk in-surance does not exist. What exists is a socialist transfer of wealth in the guise of in-surance. Period. Next topic.
dinosaur at March 22, 2010 2:34 PM
I asked the CBC to publish a list of countries where we could get the services we need. Waiting…still waiting..
Yes, I know that’s what you think, EBD, and you are certainly free to interpret my comment any way you like, independent of whether or not your interpretation correlates to my intent, I just don’t agree with you, that’s all. More importantly, it’s just a blog comment, after all, it’s just my current opinion on my current take on the current matter ~ it’s not like it’s actually something, you know, important.
Doctor Zero at HotAir.com:
“Tonight, self-appointed wise men in Washington are steamrolling the objections of sixty to seventy percent of the population, and forcing a massive health-care bill down our throats ‘for our own good.’ Presumably the backroom deals, corrupt payoffs, Congressional Budget Office accounting tricks, threats of unconstitutional parliamentary maneuvers, and betrayals of principle are also for our own good. What do you know? Banana republics turn out to be the highest evolution of government – the only form of the State equipped to take proper care of its citizens, by lying to them and trapping them in legislative cages over their howling protests.
“Tonight is not the end of the ObamaCare saga, but it does mark the beginning of a slow turn by the American ship of state. It doesn’t have to be a turn to the left. On the contrary, it could be the first overture in a rebirth of our commitment to freedom, and the last gasp of an exhausted statist ideology, long overdue for its disposal in the waste bin of history.
“The decision is up to us. Our representatives will fight various legislative battles in the months to come… and then we will speak in November. As the voters of the United States ponder what to say, it would profit us to think long and hard about the freedom Democrats are trying to take from us tonight, and what freedom demands.”
Larry said: “Actually phantom, your side has already lost. The big issue is that once the benefits from the bill are enacted the vast majority of Americans will like them.”
Dear, dear Larry. How to begin with this?
Have you been to a Canadian hospital lately? They don’t look good, Larry. They generally have people waiting in ambulances outside in the parking lot, because ER can’t take them right then. They have no right to -buy- access to a private ER either, so they wait in the ambulance and often they DIE in the f-ing ambulance, in the parking lot of the hospital. Often.
Socialized, single payer medicine is a disaster in Canada. We already have those “death panels” that Sarah “Caribou Barbie” Palin spoke of to such universal disdain and mockery. Here we call them “waiting lists”. People die on those, too.
So sure Larry, your side won. You won the right to watch your older relatives die waiting for a hip replacement, or an MRI, or because somebody decided the budget wasn’t well served by treating them. You have won Soviet style rationed, centrally planned healthcare. .
I’ve already seen this show from beginning to end, Larry. I remember Pearson in 1966, Trudeau in 1984, and I see how things are now.
It took just 20 years from the passage of the Canada Health Act for things to start crashing hard back in 2004, and Canada is a pretty small country.
That’s why I disagree with Mark Steyn. He thinks Obamacare is going to become the gold plated sacred cow that socialised medicine became in Canada and Europe, Oz and England. I think not.
I think this thing is going to crash so hard and so fast That the DemocRat Party is going to be destroyed. Possibly by 2012, certainly within ten years.
When people start to figure out what’s really in this bill, they are going to be pissed. When they start getting hit by the new taxes coming soon, thay are going to start yelling and screaming.
But when Grandma gets refused a hip replacement by some green eye shade wearing government cubicle dweller and dies from it, they are going to start burning cars with Obama stickers on them, mark my words. Just like in Paris, and for the same reasons.
What you have won my friend, is an @ss-kicking.
80% of what Canada produces is bought by the USA.
If Obama destroys the USA’s economy, the Canadian’s economy will suffer too.
We are not talking Greece , Belgium or Cote d’Ivoire here.
The USA buys 80% of Canadian production.
This is why what happens in the USA is extremely important to us Canadians.
Think about it.
The RINO’s will have to be purged before any mandate is allowed to proceed after repealing.
The RINO’s will have opportunity to foist their version of crap on the people.
They will have to go first.
Larry said: “Actually phantom, your side has already lost. The big issue is that once the benefits from the bill are enacted the vast majority of Americans will like them.”
When they start getting hit by the new taxes coming soon, thay are going to start yelling and screaming.
Posted by: The Phantom at March 22, 2010 6:32 PM
I think that you have something here, Phantom. I agree with others that some of the states are going to mount constitutional challenges to this legislation; I am simply not convinced that the Supremes will overrule this legislation. While I understand it to be in violation of the Tenth Amendment, it is not unique in this violation. If other federal bureaucracies are permitted to exist in (what some believe to be a) violation of the Tenth, why not this legislation?
The costs of this legislation may be its undoing. While its supporters may be right in that the people may come to like the new “entitlement”, or Steyn may be right in that socialized medicine changes the very character of the nation’s people, there are some other points to consider.
In order to get the Congressional Budget Office to lower the ten year cost estimate for Obamacare, Democrats postponed many of the “benefits” until 2013-2014 or later. The main effect that Americans will have observed as they vote in 2010 and 2012 will be tax increases, Medicare cuts, and the consequences of having many physicians not seeing Medicare and Medicaid patients, or having quit practices altogether.
I haven’t read the bill so I do not know how the Dems intend to get the electorate onside before 2013-2014. I would think they have a plan, but I do not know what it is. If this turns out to be a mess by 2012 with few benefits and only costs, the Republicans should be able to rescind the bill with the support of the electorate. Hmmm. We shall see either way – whether we want to or not.
In breaking news: “The ACORN Association Board met on Sunday March 21 and approved a set of steps to responsibly manage the process of bringing its operations to a close over the coming months. These include:
* Closing ACORN’s remaining state affiliates and field offices by April 1st; and
* Developing a plan to resolve all outstanding debts, obligations and other issues.
ACORN’s members have a great deal to be proud of—from promoting to homeownership to helping rebuild New Orleans, from raising wages to winning safer streets, from training community leaders to promoting voter participation—ACORN members have worked hard to create stronger to communities, a more inclusive democracy, and a more just nation.”
I think the conservatives who are hoping (praying?) that the 10th amendment is going to save them are missing the much more relevant amendment: the 16th.
“The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”
It is undeniably a power of Congress to tax income, and to put conditions on the amount of tax payable. That’s what the individual mandate boils down to: you pay this tax if you have insurance, that tax if you don’t. I think it would be a monumental leap for a federal court or the Supreme Court to rule the mandate unconstitutional because of this.
The courts won’t save America now. Even if bits and pieces get thrown out, this is a 2,000-plus page monstrosity. Get 1 or 2 or 10 clauses thrown out, and there’s still 100 more left in the damn thing that will still slowly poison the American health care system and America as a whole.
Outright repeal is the only hope.
I’ll believe thiis whole health-care program is going to work out OK when the self-serving, sleazy politicians sign off their gold-plated health-care plan and sign on for this.
Until then the United States is well and truly screwed.
T for once said a true thing. Amazing! “The money for this will be found…”
Yes it will. Obama will most likely strip the American military for funds, according to Limbaugh this afternoon. Soldiers will be brought home and de-mobilized, ships, aircraft etc. will be mothballed, and it will be a big, big win for the Peaceniks all over the world. The big bad Americans finally got dragged off by the collar, another Nobel Peace Prize for Barry. Book ends, as it were.
There will be singing and dancing in the streets, right up until Mr. Amadinnerjacket nukes Telaviv, or the Indians nuke Pakistan, or Pakistan nukes India, or China invades Taiwan and Korea, or more likely all of the above at the same time.
And then the music will stop.
“Gord:
The slippery slope?
Posted by: set you free at March 22, 2010 5:19 PM”
A slope that was engineered to be slippery.
…
“Will someone care to tell me how Obama plans on paying for this?
He has derailed America and he damn well knows it.
Posted by: Osumashi Kinyobe at March 22, 2010 5:34 PM”
Three words: defense spending cuts*
*and possibly a VAT
…
T:
As has been proven by lots of sources, 32 million is a bogus number. 10 to 12 million of that number is illegal immigrants. Another 10 plus million are people who do not want to buy coverage either because they are young (and foolish) and healthy (for now) and dont want to spend the money or they are very wealthy and have decided to self-insure. The remaining 10 million want and cannot afford coverage or cannot get it because of pre-existing conditions. But even the last group can get emergency care if they walk into any hospital. That means that only one in 30 americans citizens can’t get the coverage they want/need.
Compare that to Canada where less than 50% haven’t even got a family doctor let alone timely access to an MRI, an OR etc. and cannot get a PET scan under any circumstance.
The US system has its flaws, but compared to the Canadian system it is vastly better on both a qualitative and a quantitative basis (they get a lot more services for the buck). Just by doing torte reform (up to 500 billion in legal, insurance and over-prescription costs per annum) and dropping inter-state commerce barriers (100s of BB$ in saving there) premium costs would fall enough to put a sizable number of those currently without coverage on the insurance rolls.
A five percent premium tax on all plans would easily create a catastrophic stop-loss fund that both individuals and companies could subscribe to to cover big health bills.
As has been said elsewhere, this bill has jack-squat to do with healthcare and everything to do with socialist control of the populous and subjugating the individual.
Gord:
You are correct about the 32 million number being bogus.
Non-documented immigrants will never be denied medical care.
The second group is now irrelevant under the bill since it’s now mandatory to purchase private health insurance.
The third group is what will cost the US taxpayers, who will help pay their premiums.
If insurance companies play it right (don’t leave themselves vulnerable by keeping salaries within a reasonable multiplier), and operating restrictions are lifted, they should be able to preserve their self-interest and fend off any need for a fully-public plan.
The problem with the degenerate leftard’s mantra of we win you lose is that it’s your children, not today’s conservatives, that will be doing the losing.
How’d you like to pay for your grandparent’s healthcare while not getting any yourself cause those sh!ty little baby boomer deadbeats decimated the western cultural inheritance. These are people who have borrowed beyond their great-great-grandchildren’s ability to pay and greedily spent in all on themselves. They label themselves as the “me” generation and don’t even have the self-awareness to consider it an insult. I spit just thinking about the lot.
The problem with baby boomers is that they won’t die quick enough to save the west from bankruptcy. The damage they have done isn’t solvable, isn’t reversable and is too late to even try. It’s like the 3rd generation of the Vanderbuilts: lots of very pretty monuments to their colossal selfishness and irresponsibility now run by the government as museums.
The US is no different than Europe and Canada and all this health bill did was speed up the date of reckoning. Medicare, pensions and the like were already going to sink them. At least the younger portion of those f’ing vermin will feel it before they die now. That at least is the good thing to come out of this. All the consequences won’t be felt by today’s little kids.
T, there is no money.
Whatever money there is goes to defending some country, paying for their AIDS medicines, helping them after natural disasters and keeping their peace.
As I said before, get off your @$$ and foot the enormous bill your hero is proposing the American taxpayer foot.
“Whatever you have done for the least of these, you have done for Me”
I think that the Obama Gang’s attack, and I use the word with intent, against the middle class in America is the key element in this battle.
America was developed of and by and for, the middle class. The people. These are that class who are self-sufficient, innovative, free-thinking entrepreneurial individuals. This is what has made the USA an ‘exceptional nation’.
What we are now seeing with the Obama Gang is an attempt to shackle the freedoms of this class, reduce its capacity to make wealth – a wealth which is always turned back into the nation via the creation of new technologies, the development of factories, jobs, etc – and essentially, reduce it to a lower, i.e., govt dependent class.
By setting up an Elite Class who rule over this new massive govt-dependent class, the Obama Gang is restructuring the USA into a two-class system. An elite set of Rulers and the Ruled.
That’s the situation at the time of George III, and it is interesting to see how closely this Obama, Pelosi Gang are clones of the 18th c elite landowners who sneer at ‘trade’ and ‘the market’ and ‘freedom of thought’.
All of this matters, not merely because we Canadians are so dependent on the US to import our goods – there is no nation in the world that exports its goods in such a proportion of over 80% to only one country – but the world needs a robust USA for its innovation, entrepreneurship and freedom of thought.
Think of the technological advances made in the last 200 years and consider what nation is the prime site of their origin. Can we really claim that it’s the water in the USA that does this?
Therefore, one has to consider this battle closely and hope that freedom triumphs over the fleeting comforts of dependency.
To everyone posting on here ..remember that he wil be a two term president …all of the illegals ailiens who will get free health care will vote for him remember all of those leftist idiots will now come out in droves to keep him in power and when he goes next after amnesty for illegals he will get that to ..and after that and he get’s his reelection he will then try to get rid of the two term policy and will then become a dictator …simple that is his and nacy legosi’s goal …all fo these idot’s have the map of attack they are sticking to the battle plan …watch and wait !!!
Paul in calgary
Let’s all take a moment and grieve for Peggy Joseph. Not getting her free gas and mortgage payments must have been bad enough but just imagine how shattered she’ll be when she finds out she won’t be getting free health care either.
ET,
I’ve been saying for ages that the left-elite are neo-feudalists. The eco-elites are the same. They believe they’ll still be wealthy and privileged but the vast bulk of humanity will be serfs kept destitute and in servitude to them. Unlike Queen Marie and her unfortunate headlessness, they’re winning.
Dr. Otto von Hapsburg was the biggest backer of the EU. Nuff said.
paul:
Illegals have voting rights?
My experience of US Health policies as both an Employee & Employer
Those that are employed pay Pay-role Taxes that includes Social Security & Medicare.. These benefits are a prepaid “future” medical care that become available @ 65 years of Age. Before you retire you still must have “present” Health Coverage that is provided by your employer or purchased privately. When you are fired you may continue the employers coverage through COBRA (for a set time) but must pay the premiums yourself (presently the feds are providing Cobra Funds)
The Poor & welfare recipients have medical Coverage called Medicaid; this cost is 50% State & 50% federal. The Obama Health Plan adds 17 million of the uninsured (People who are not poor) to the State Medicaid plan.. The States object to these costs..DC can print money for their share & hide the cost, but the States must Budget their share of these Costs. This will bankrupt the States & lead to loss of Sovereignty
The Uninsured that this bill is intended (PR by Democrats) to help are people that are not poor, but did not to purchase Health Insurance…These include people working in the shadows (not taxpayers), consultants, S Corporations. They also have not paid payroll taxes for future Medicare. IMHO they will just go further underground & use the Emergency door, YES it is Free. A doctor from Los Angeles, that works in ER ,claimed that 50% do not pay for services. Of the 30 million, said to get Health Care, 8 million are in California. If you add the Illegal Aliens that becomes 18 million.
The States MUST challenge this monstrosity; and they have been preparing for this show down for the last 5 years by strengthening their Constitutions.. (Including California) The Communist attempt to bankrupt the Country was predictable.
[quote]It’s unheard of for States to mount a court challenges to the federal govt and yet, this is the next step [/quote]ET
No.. The Brady Act (gun Control Mandate) was challenged by only two States (Arizona & NM? ) and they, the states, won. The mandate was unconstitutional
https://litigation-essentials.lexisnexis.com/webcd/app action=DocumentDisplay&crawlid=1&doctype=cite&docid=30+Rutgers+L.+J.+209&srctype=smi&srcid=3B15&key=7c1e64cc931858e40432ca4ee5a2fd69
The Count is now 43 States that will sue, they have enough to declare independance
SYF
Illegals have voting rights when they’re voting alongside the pets and dead people when ACORN brings them in to vote for the democrats.
@ SET YOU FREE …….actually they do …see it is illegal to ask for proof of citizenship at the voting booth’s …it is also not required to show your i.d…..well i should correct that and say that they do not ask for your i.d. at of the voting booth’s in most counties in most states it is racist to do so acording to janet nepalitano head of home land security….i am sure not in all cases but most democratic voters don’t care anyway as long as the spirit of che liveso n for them they wil do what it takes and voter fraud is never ending no matter witch wing is in power.
so to answer your question …no!! buuut yes illegally ..so the illigals vote illigally who woulda thunk it .
Al Sharpton:
“First of all, then we have to say the American public overwhelmingly voted for socialism when they elected President Obama…”
True enough. They just didn’t know it at the time….