Update 2 – Darcey is hosting Fitna on his own server, and Flea is providing torrent links.
“If you quote the Koran. If you do so in the name of freedom of speech. You will be threatened with death. The press will collude with the enemy.”
When I can figure out how to set it up, I’ll host another here.
Statement from Liveleak on the removal of Fitna
Because “multiculturalism” means “more pavilions at Folkfest”…
In anticipation of this, a number of sources have already saved and rehosted the film, so it won’t be hard to find.
Background info.
Because they just can’t help themselves. – Addressing the European parliament, the Grand Mufti of Syria told his audience that “If there is unrest, bloodshed and violence after the broadcast of the Koran film, Wilders will be responsible.”
A million views at Liveleak already (and nearly two million of the Dutch version) and they’ve issued a statement. Via Hotair – “They’re obviously willing to go to the mat to keep this online.”
Michael van der Galien chronicles the astonishing efforts to stop the film from being seen in the Netherlands. “I disagree with your opinion that Islam is violent, but I will fight to the death to prevent you from inciting them”. Or something like that.
You can still find it on YouTube.
I think movie is very provocative as well is should be.
We in the West need to continue to provoke the massive numbers of radical facist musims all over the world to keep them increasing their attacks on the West. Once everyone has been satisfactorily outraged and or victimized by these monsters, we can them provide the support to our governments and our our armed forces to start killing them in far, far greater numbers.
We must also continue to badger our politicians to end all Muslim immigration in the West.
If we are ever to have a chance to survive as free people we MUST defeat these beasts NOW!
We can beat them if we resolve to do so. So far, as I see it, they are winning because we are letting them win.
How stupid is that? The Leftists, Homosexuals, women’s groups, university students, the NDP and all other haters of Western society are all complicit in the terrorist’s Jihad against us.
We might want to start doing something about them too.
BTW, I should also have mentioned that Judeo-Christianity has been deep sixed in a lot of “Christian” Churches too: United, Anglican, and other denominations which allow political correctness to trump Christian teachings.
How can I download it, and from where?
Dutch leftists apologize to Islam. (via LGF)
…-
Fitna the Movie
We’re tired of waiting. So, let’s do it ourselves! Sorry!
We can compete for attention however. And we can produce disinformation. So we are going to make Movies called “Fitna” in which we apologise for Geert Wilders embarrassing behaviour. We will make so many of them that it will be hard to find the movie by Wilders without finding lots of movies apologising for it.
Just to let the world (and ourselves) know that allowing confused people to speak does not mean that we agree with what they say. Sorry.
So if you want to join in; just make your own Fitna movie and put it on line. Put on a blonde wig, look cross eyed and say you’re sorry. Film it with you telephone or camera. Then, publish it on line as many times as you can, Youtube, Hyves, Myspace any place. Call it Fitna by Geert Wilders. Add any statement that you like to. Link to your movie and to other movies you like from your blogs and websites. Sorry!
Let’s smother this Wilders in our apologies. If we work hard enough, no one will be able to find his crap among all the noise we produce. And the world knows how we feel about Wilders and his opportunism.
WE’RE SORRY!”
http://www.mediamatic.net/article-33851-en.html
This rather proves the point of the movie, doesn’t it?
You can ‘yank’ the video from one site, and it will appear on another site. That’s the power of the people. The Internet belongs to the people.
It’s an important video among other confrontative questions – the political cartoons were one, Theo Van Gogh’s film was another. There will be violence and retribution by Islamists because they are still refusing to confront and examine their own ideology.
As I said, they’ve made two choices so far, both of them rejecting self-examination. The first is the fascist Al Qaeda choice. Let’s all move back and pretend we’re back in the 7th century. Unfortunately, to keep a population living way back in time, to 13 centuries ago, takes a LOT of energy, fear and force. No country can last long like that.
The other choice, is to attempt to change the West to ‘Be like Us, We Islamists’. The West attempted a postmodern version of this; it’s called multiculturalism, which states that ‘every belief and behaviour is equal in value; none are better or worse. Beating your wife is equivalent to not beating your wife’.
This is not working; the West is emerging, slowly, from this drunken Liberalist stupor, and beginning to fight back.
And, it’s becoming clear that the Islamic notion of multicultural is about ‘we’re all equal’, but instead, that We are The Best, and You are nothing.
Me no dhimmi – glad you like Popper. Get the second volume as well. I’m also a fan of Hayek.
No, I don’t think the West will go tribal; the population is too large for tribalism.
My concern is that the West will tend to the ease of socialism, which rejects a middle class and is instead made up of two classes: the workers who don’t know, and the elite who are in gov’t and who rule everyone. This is the Platonist form of govt, as you know. It’s also the Liberal and NDP style. We are beer and popcorn; they know what’s best for us.
Such a two class system immediately stops freedom. Dead in its tracks. That’s because it rejects the concept that every person is capable of thinking, of reasoning. The Liberal/NDP/Platonist idea is that only the elites in govt (and academia) can think and reason.
But, if you can’t reason, then you aren’t free. Because freedom means the capacity and right to make choices. If you do have the capacity to choose, it means you can’t think.
A middle class is made up of individuals. People who think. The Liberal/NDP/Platonist two class society denies a middle class. They don’t want interfering ‘thinking people’. They will govern.
And a lot of people prefer that type of nation, where the govt makes all the decisions, and we just mutter and get angry with them..but, we don’t do anything. Because..it’s all ‘up to the govt’..to make things OK.
I think these films and cartoons are excellent, because they are showing Muslims that their texts and their words and their behaviour, are open to question. If they assert they are ‘peaceful’, then, how can they explain their texts and actions, both of which are violent?
Does anyone recall the splendid CPC ads of the 2006 election campaign? They simply showed high level Liberals, their words and their actions (I’m entitled to my entitlements)…and this raised questions..
Same thing with these videos and cartoons..
While the images of “Fitna” are appalling, they are on the same level as watching newsreels of the Jews during the Holocaust.
Even Himmler himself couldn’t hold his stomach contents while visiting Auschwitz.
Which probably underscores the statement:
“I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.” Jeremiah 31:33
Nobody is under the illusion that watching butchery of humans is a pleasant experience.
The unwritten error that Fitna asserts is that all Muslims are blood thirsty in the same way that all Germans were blood thirsty mindless SS robots with ice in their veins.
Life is never that simple.
One could go ahead and quote many Old Testament/Torah passages in which Moabites, Hittites, etc. were laid waste. This does not make current day Orthodox Jews into a bunch of mindless warriors ready to lay waste to whoever crosses their path.
Alternately, one could point out that the first Gentile to convert to Christianity was Cornelius the Centurion who would not be averse to swordplay per the Acts of the Apostles.
Even one of the Apostles lopped off Malthus’s ear prior to the crucifixion, but we don’t see 2 billion Christians all becoming ear loppers in the same way that 1 billion Muslims are not all head choppers.
While there are extremists in any faith the percentage is obviously reasonably low, otherwise the casualty figures would be much higher, on the order of millions.
Most normal people are looking to have steady job, feed their family, educate their children, plan for retirement, enjoy their kids, etc.
Vincent Van Gogh was an ardent ear lopper, but that doesn’t make all the Dutch looking for Jesus to restore their self-inflicted ear wounds.
While “Fitna” underscores the undeniable harm that a number of individuals who are fanatically motivated can do, it overreaches by suggesting a systemic problem is applicable to each and every Muslim.
As a Christian, I could put a similar set of quotes together from selected passages of Scripture and set off on a self-anointed “Crusade” to convert the heathen by the rule of the sword.
Cherry picking a few quotes from Islam also ignores those passages which focus on mercy.
In the same way one can cherry pick certain Christian passages and ignore those which focus on the love of neighbor.
That would be the method of the ideologue who has a political agenda to grind.
Thus one can make the statement that all Muslims adhere to the ideology of Islam; it is a leap to suggest that all Muslims are of necessity of same level of ideologues as the fanatics who flew into the towers in New York.
In the same way it is an error to assert from the Muslim perspective we belong to the “Crusader West” it is an error on our part to conclude that there is no diversity of opinion within the Muslim faith community.
In short, there is an error in ascribing monolithism of opinion in the Muslim community.
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht BGS, PDP, CFP
Commander in Chief
Frankenstein Battalion
2nd Squadron: Ulanen-(Lancers) Regiment Großherzog Friedrich von Baden(Rheinisches) Nr.7(Saarbrucken)
Knecht Rupprecht Division
Hans Corps
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
So why are’t Moderate Muslims standing beside us and condemning the violence of their fellow Muslims. Where is the Moderate voice of Islam, they can be offended if they wish but it’s not Irish Catholic men beheading and killing people globally in the name of Allah. The video is a diary of global events, violence, maiming and killing in the name of Allah. Where is the moderates condemning the actions of the Islamic Radicals?
I don’t believe most Muslims pose a threat to me, but if they stay silent what message am I to assume they are sending me? If they don’t speak out soon the Radicals will silence them with threats of violence, it’s worked in Europe, Muslims asked for help but the governments turned them away because they were afraid of being branded as Islamophobes. Moderate Muslims have been left to deal with Radicals in their community and the police turn a blind eye. We aren’t helping Muslims by remaining silent, their only hope is for us to join forces and expel the Radical Scum from their communities. Neither side can do it alone, we need to work together to cull Radical Islamist out of our communities.
ET: Yup, I’m into Vol 2, Hegel-Marx. He’s not too keen on Aristotle either, eh? Another misunderstander of evolution and a totalitarian like Plato. Hegel was a fraud, a mystic.
BTW, the Hayek – The Fatal Conceit: The Errors of Socialism. Quite short, under 200 pp. A summing up as it were, written in 1988. There is much here also about tribalism — that the market economy, which he prefers to call the “extended order” was enabled by our restraining our instincts and following abstract rules, etc., and how altruism cannot be operated on a grand scale (which is obviously the left’s central fallacy). And incredibly profound information on private property, which he prefers to call “several property”, how the extended order could not arise without it, and how one of its key functions in discovery.
Also, volume X1 of his collected works is the Correspondence between FA Hayek and Karl Popper (1937).
But ET as you’ve explained: the West HAS tribalism, big time: multiculturalism. And ALL of our political and intellectual elites seem to favour it — favour a return to tribalism.
Let’s not go binary on this subject. The West has been ideologically infiltrated by tribalism and is committing suicide via out of control benefit-seeking (jizya!) muslim immigration. Which has to end, or we’ll END.
Does anyone seriously think that NOT publishing the movie or even an apology from the film maker, the Dutch and all other western nations will stop the next Islamic mass murder????
Lets pretend for a moment that no “insulting” movie or cartoons were ever produced or published…………would the world be any safer today?
If you answered yes to either question then you deserve all that is Islamic to embrace you, do the remainder of society a favor and move to Saudi Arabia.
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht BGS, PDP, CFP
Bet you’re real fun at parties:(
Where is the Moderate voice of Islam
It exists, but it’s quite understandably afraid, taking it’s cue from our craven political and intellectual class.
And let’s remember that the elites undermine the silent moderates by “interfacing” with the Islamists like CAIR (offering sensitivity training courses to the FBI), the Muslim Council of Britain etc, who represent a very tiny percentage of the muslim community. And we just won’t turn off this Wahhabi mosque infiltration!
Why? Power. This is the enduring lesson I got out of Efraim Karsh’s work on Islamic Imperialism — couldn’t be achieved without the active collusion of the Church elites. For a modern day example, you couldn’t find a better example than the traitorous Olmert, PM of Israel. Any lie, any fantasy, to retain power, and the people be damned even mass-murdered.
Here’s what commentators need to deeply consider: why aren’t they worried about a violent reaction from white westerners? After all, it is they, and not muslims, who are being shown being beheaded and blown up.
Instead, they expect a violent reaction from among Muslims (while at the same time insisting that extremists are “on both sides”).
This tells you that even the appeasement-oriented commentators understand where the real risk lies.
ET: re your comment “…multiculturalism, which states that ‘every belief and behaviour is equal in value; none are better or worse. Beating your wife is equivalent to not beating your wife'”: I agree with you up to a point.
The real point is, however, that multiculturalism in the West hasn’t actually taught that “every belief and behaviour is equal,” no matter what its perpetrators say. What, in actuality, multiculturalism has done is tell an increasingly secular West that SOME cultures are more equal than others.
I know. My children were in the public educational system, where every culture and every faith OTHER than the Judeo-Christian faith were not only welcomed but touted as “newly found” and wonderful.
The irony is that most of the families from which the students in my children’s school came from, including our family, went to one of the five Chrisitan churches in town. While the majority of the student body came from, at least, nominally Christian families–certainly, families which just a generation ago were unabashadly Christian–their faith, their beliefs, their culture were being not only downplayed but portrayed as, somehow, “bad,” while all other cultures/beliefs, including Native culture/spirituality, were lionized and included in the curriculum. (When, for instance, I asked my daughter’s teacher if she was going to mention to her class, who were learning about slavery, that it was largely British Christians who led the movement to emancipate slaves, she sheepishly admitted that she hadn’t planned to. Perhaps, she opined, I or my husband could come into the class to talk about it…? ‘Never happened… ‘radical feminist principal probably nixed THAT idea…)
Perhaps IF multiculturalism in the West had actually posited that ALL cutlures/faiths were equal, we Judeo-Christians in Canada, the U.S., and Europe–whose ancestors laid the groundwork for modern democratic freedoms in the West–might have stood a chance at holding the floor and, therefore, holding our own.
The reality has been, however, that our hands have been tied behind our backs, we’ve had a gag put in our mouths, and we’ve been relegated not so much to the back of the bus as right off the bus.
There are many who would agree with me but wouldn’t EVER say it out loud, for fear of the assured backlash from the politically correct brigade, who have held the purse strings to government and educational grants, not to mention the bully pulpits of the MSM.
We in the West seem to be suffering from a collective amnesia about our spiritual heritage. It is our Achilles Heel and it is having a devastating effect on our ability to stand up to the militant Islamofascists in our midst. We no longer seem to have any standards by which to discern right from wrong, friend from foe, common sense from insanity.
Without a vision, the people perish.
I agree with you ET, but, what motivates Islam to self-examine? Islam has to suffer a significant failure before it has the motivation to do so.
How can I download it, and from where?
Posted by: Johan i Kanada
HERE
Google FLV player and install. It’s free and easy. You will need it to play the file.
yes, me no dhimmi, I’m aware that Popper wasn’t a fan of Aristotle. In my view, he misunderstood him, so I just ignore those sections. [I’m a fan of Aristotle.]
Socialism IS a conceit, isn’t it?
Hans Rupprecht – I don’t think your analogies are valid. Agreed, that not all Muslims are also Islamic fascists, but that’s not the point. The point is that the Islamic world has been unable to adapt to the modern world. It has admitted industrialism into its territories. Via oil and the results of oil: cars, computers, planes, big cities. But, it hasn’t changed its lifestyle to enable its population to be active agents in industrialism. Just consumers. This inability to adapt to the modern world..has had two results.
Both of them are a refusal to self-examine What We Are Doing Wrong in Islamic Nations..Both results are directly due to a refusal to come to grips with the fact that Islam, as an ideology, doesn’t allow the population to Be Modern.
The religious, social, political and economic ideology of islam functions only within a tribal political mode and a 7th century economic mode. That’s the problem.
The Islamic world has reacted to the appearance of industrialism in its 7th c borders by either trying to revert back to the 7th c and hold onto that lifestyle (this is the agenda of Al Qaeda and Islamic fascism) OR by trying to get the West to change and submit to an Islamic tribal sociopolitical lifestyle.
That’s the problem.
These two strategies of No Change in the Islamic World are deeply affecting us in the West.
The first strategy of Islamic fascism, or the Return to The 7th Century, attempts to keep out industrial actions in the ME by bombing the West. Remember?
The second strategy of ‘Dhimmitude’, which is a tactic of non-self-examination, attempts to change the West to ‘be Islamic’.
Neither strategy is going to work. What is going on now, is the painful, violent phase where the Islamic world is realizing that its ideology has never been thoroughly examined – and must be, and even, must be transformed so that its followers can be participants in the industrial world.
The islamic world is still trying to deny that this self-examination must happen. But, the fact that the West is standing up and refusing BOTH strategies – refusing Al Qaeda’s Islamic fascism (and we have the USA to thank for that)…and refusing ‘dhimmitude’ (and we have film-makers, cartoonists, authors to thank for that)…is exactly right.
The movie is good, but all the clips have been available for anyone to see. Not many people have read the Koran though and not many know exactly how vicious it is to non-Muslims.
I am waiting for the documentary on the historical Mohammed and how the Koran rips off the characters and events of the Old and New Testaments. Islam has a problem with Jews and Christians because Jews and Christians know that the Koran has stories of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, Rachel, Laban, Moses, Mary, Miriam, Pharoach, Haman all mixed up in time and place (Mary the mother of Jesus shows up as Miriam the sister of Moses – two people separated in time by about 1000 years; Haman of the Persian Empire circa approx. 400 BC shows up in the court of Pharoah circa approx 1300 BC; Abraham is told to sacrifice Ishmael, while anyone who has read Genesis knows that Abraham was asked to sacrifice Isaac).
It doesn’t matter whether you think these are all just fairy tales, the fact remains that the Koran plagarizes the Bible and then says that the Jews lied in their book. What is up with that? The Torah predates the Koran by approx. 900 years (if you take it to the time of Ezra) so it is pretty much copy right infringement/intellectual property theft.
If anyone converts out of Islam to Christianity they will read the old and new Testaments and then they will know that the Koran has ripped the characters and events off of these older books, rearranged them to suit their purposes, and then called those who ascribe to the original version liars. Converts must be killed because they could pollute everyone with this knowledge and then the whole thing could crumble.
After carefully going over live-leaks excuse for pulling this vid it makes no sense.
If a person or organization really believed in free expression or the right to information they would have been willing to take the threats. Its not like journalists don’t get them all the time, right?
No at the base of this is a very real cowardice that has crept into this culture. When those yellow bellies in Montreal walked away from those Women who where shot, it said more about this culture than I think where all prepared to listen too.
We are being bullied into submission by our own cultural ennui, with threats by barbarians. Incredible!
Its time we all realized we could be casualties of these nuts .
If we really believe in our individual liberties this is the time to stand on your hill & fight or die. If not, you might as well be in the chains of a slave.
Ask yourselves would this be done by this company if it where any other group?
Thank you for those who saved this piece of propaganda. This bowing under the yoke of Islam, only just proves the films theme.
The next question is obvious. What next will they demand we surrender?
accepting the Al Aqsa mosque on the Temple Mount, is accepting dhimmitude.
The only reason that mosque is there, is to state that Islam is dominant over what came before. The mosque was built there because that is where King Solomon’s Temple stood (destroyed by the Babylonians) and where the second Temple stood – the Temple where Jesus threw over the tables of the money changers and which was destroyed by the Romans to end the Jewish Revolt.
Al Aqsa means “furthest”. Furthest from what? From Mecca and Medina. Islam is not indigenous to Jerusalem and I don’t know why we have to continue pretending that it is.
If CTV was reporting that the video was “soon to be banned”, was it banned because of media requesting it? How did they know?
Hans: “unwritten error that Fitna asserts is that all Muslims are blood thirsty” — I saw nothing in the film that would suggest that and I don’t think that most people think that all Muslims are guilty of this type of extremism. I think you are reading that into the film.
Also — I think the point being made about the Koran is that the Muslim extremists justify what they are doing based on verses from the Koran. Yes there are also violent passages in the Bible, but no one is going around using them to promote large scale violent attacks on innocent people.
RE: “Where is the moderate voice of Islam”
I think it may be much harder for people within the Muslim community to speak out against this stuff, to the extent that the thugs may already be in charge of their “organization.” It probably would be very helpful to them if the secularists and other Western voices started getting really angry about this stuff instead of cowering all the time and trying to stifle truths about what is going on. NOBODY IS ACCUSING ALL MUSLIMS OF PROMOTING THIS STUFF, but there is a small group of Muslims creating BIG problems for all of us.
Bet you’re real fun at parties:(
Blazingcatfur:
Well if one is going to posit as ET has done that Islam needs to be confronted in order to reform, as Christianity has done over the centuries, then at least hold out the hope that Islam is capable of reformation rather than slamming the door shut on the idea.
Alternately, the Christian-Muslim dialogue should cease and we pick up the cudgel and go at it. I would suspect that would be a long long battle.
Or maybe the whole dust up is just about power and money and it doesn’t mean a whole lot.
Cheers
Islam is not a religion. It pretends to be. It is a tiotaletarian ideology. Remember Coresh at Waco? Mohamad was the same kind of Svengali psycho. Except back then in that place, the populous were so ignorant they went for it.
This is an informative read: “The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades”
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895260131/ref=ase_robertspencer-20/103-1603172-8127010?v=glance&s=books
The book provides good historical background and makes the point that there are some important ideological differences between Christianity and Islam that make it unlikely that Islam will “evolve” as Christianity apparently has.
This is an informative read: “The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades”
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895260131/ref=ase_robertspencer-20/103-1603172-8127010?v=glance&s=books
The book provides good historical background and makes the point that there are some important ideological differences between Christianity and Islam that make it unlikely that Islam will “evolve” as Christianity apparently has.
John Daly, We have argued with you and now yoyu want us to visit yoyur site. Ha! It is obvious you are a spineless herbivore of ideas.
ex-liberal>
I found both your comments impressive and well said.
Oh, Oh . . .another leak that will need to get plugged:
http://arts.guardian.co.uk/theatre/news/story/0,,2269165,00.html
John West: I have borrowed one of your comments, I hope you don’t mind, for illustrative purposes. It can be found here:
http://johnnymaudlin.blogspot.com/2008/03/you-cant-go-much-farther-west-than-this.html
Kate: is this kind of thinking really alright by you? I’m not talking about banning John West. You’d be more likely to want to ban me. I’m not talking about censoring the kind of insanity being spewed by folks like West. Simply asking you to come out from hiding and answer: is this the kind of idea you support?
As LiveLeak is based in Manchester, England, any guess as to which morons with an agenda in the dhimmi Brit MSM compromised the company? The Labour gov’t feeling the heat?
That fundamentalist Islam is a disgusting blight on humanity is a given, it’s the creeps among us that facilitate this evil by denying us freedom of speech that are the most despicable.
One effective way to kill the Death Cult is to mock it into oblivion. It deserves to be assaulted by every rational person until it reforms or perishes and that can’t happen if forums for freedom of speech are denied us. Right now as I see it the good fight is demanding our rights to free speech.
John Daly>
Not to sound unkind, but I believe my earlier assessment of you, as a pot smoking old hippy with Marxist views is still valid.
Honestly, your loathing of “strait minded” posters who espouse conservative thought along with an obvious jealousy of this successful blog truly diminishes any character you may have.
Your clouded judgment (drug induced?) fails you miserably deluding yourself that you are both intelligent and worthy of other peoples ear. The FACT that you have no readers seems to not deter your fantasies that you speak for the majority of available readership in the blogosphear. You find yourself trolling successful discussion sites unsuccessfully soliciting an audience thus lowering your credibility to a loathsome creature not unlike the Golum character in Lord of the Rings.
You sound very much like that occasional hetrophobe troll who frequents this site with the moniker volik/ rolik, I’m beginning to think you may be one in the same.
Again it’s not to be unkind, but simply a help line from another perspective. Sometimes people need that in their lives so there it is, success proves itself.
This is from Mark Steyn at The Corner:
“All the news that’s Fitna
“Geert Wilders’ film is a hit – over 1.5 million views in English, over 2.5 million in Dutch last time I checked – but it’s nevertheless been yanked by LiveLeak, with the following statement:
” ‘Following threats to our staff of a very serious nature, and some ill informed reports from certain corners of the British media that could directly lead to the harm of some of our staff, Liveleak.com has been left with no other choice but to remove Fitna from our servers. This is a sad day for freedom of speech on the net but we have to place the safety and well being of our staff above all else.’
“Indeed. The Internet will keep Fitna alive in odd corners hither and yon, but only to those who actively seek it out. In the wider world, it goes without saying that such a film is unacceptable, and that this time round the pre-emptive rage (as Diana West calls it) was so successful the next Fitna will have an even harder time: no movie theaters or broadcast networks or obscure cable channels would even consider showing it, and Google and YouTube and the other Internet biggies have grown increasingly comfortable with political speech-policing, and now one more small net operation has learned that, unless you want to be a 24/7 crusader on this issue, it’s not a business worth being in. In effect, the Islamobullies have been rewarded yet again for threatening physical violence. The best way to end the debate is not to make the price of having one too high.
“To reprise Douglas Murray’s point below, a film such as Fitna might not even be necessary were the western news organizations not so absurdly deferential toward Muslim sensibilities that they go out of their way to avoid showing us anything that might cause us to link violence with Islam. Even that footage of those depraved West Bankers jumping up and down in the street and passing out candy to celebrate 9/11 appears to have been walled up in the most impenetrable vault of the archives these last six years. Both CNN and the BBC could only bring themselves to show the Danish cartoons by pixelating Mohammed’s face – the first time this technique has ever been applied to a drawing, as if the Prophet had entered the witness protection program. At one level, they make Wilders’ point for him, but, at another, they make it less likely anyone else will step forward to try to make the point next time.
“In reality, it’s the small band of people trying to resist the de facto universalization of Islamic prohibitions that have to enter the witness protection program. Wish Mr Wilders good luck. Neither his own government nor the feeble equivalence peddler who serves as US ambassador to the Organization of the Islamic Conference are much help to him.”
And God help us when truth is considered expendable in order to assuage the feelings of the most barbaric among us.
John Daly>
Not to sound unkind, but I believe my earlier assessment of you, as a pot smoking old hippy with Marxist views is still valid.
Honestly, your loathing of “strait minded” posters who espouse conservative thought along with an obvious jealousy of this successful blog truly diminishes any character you may have.
Your clouded judgment (drug induced?) fails you miserably deluding yourself that you are both intelligent and worthy of other peoples ear. The FACT that you have no readers seems to not deter your fantasies that you speak for the majority of available readership in the blogosphear. You find yourself trolling successful discussion sites unsuccessfully soliciting an audience thus lowering your credibility to a loathsome creature not unlike the Golum character in Lord of the Rings.
Again it’s not to be unkind, but simply a help line from another perspective. Sometimes people need that in their lives so there it is, success proves itself.
John Daly,
To sound mean and unkind as you deserve to be treated, you are a an old brain-dead hippie whose time is long past. You are an anachronism and you will soon be completely forgotten as an anomaly in the reality of life. This world will be a far better place once all the old hippies are dead.
I think I have caused your stomach to burn. That pleases me. You have assigned me a swastika on your site. I don’t mind that as I see it as a symbol used by many cultures in their decorative art work. I am all for the art of other cultures, but not necessarily their politics.
It’s a shame that the socialist Nazi regime used the swastika as a symbol under which to do much of what the Muslims are doing today. That entire concept escapes your drug addled brain apparently.
Re the homosexuals. I think they would do well to not ally themselves with groups that will kill them as soon as they get an opportunity. You and they don’t grok that concept either … apparently.
You are nothing but entertainment around here. No one will take your utter stupidity seriously.
Got roll a doob man … like it’s Friday night eh?
Al Aqsa means “furthest”. Furthest from what? From Mecca and Medina. Islam is not indigenous to Jerusalem and I don’t know why we have to continue pretending that it is.
Posted by: ex-liberal ;
An excellent observation.
Let me be clear about what my comments are saying.
1. We have a beef with ‘radical’ islam. They are sworn to destroy us. We are presently at war with them in Afghanistan and Iraq. Our soldiers are killing them and they are killing our soldiers. I think we need to step it up or forget about it. The Marquis of Queensbury rules don’t work with with these people.
2. Those of us in the West who continue make excuses for them by blaming the USA and Israel for the poor down-trodden Jihadis are the Left including the CBC, CTV, women’s groups, gay groups, the NDP., University students and many others. When I suggest we do something about that I mean we need to continue to expose them for the traitors that they are when for example they support the Palestinians over the Jews. They do this by either speaking out against our side in the terror war or by not speaking out in support of even the Muslim women who are subjugated by Islam and treated as sub humans. This is wrong.
When I suggest the we will need to be more bloodied by radical Islam, I mean that for many, 9-11 was enough. However, for many we just had that coming to us and so on or George Bush did it. It will apparently take a lot more 9-11 type attacks before they realize this is for real and it has nothing to do with us, but rather something that is wrong with Islam.
When I read about Muslim fathers murdering their daughter for not wearing a big sack to school in Canada, I know there is something wrong with Islam and that is an outrage. John Daly, what do you think should happen to young Muslim women who want to fit in the Canadian society? Think they should die or be allowed to live their own lives? I will be interested to hear your answer.
I certainly don’t want to cause any trouble for Kate and if she thinks that I go over the line at any time, I invite her to delete my comments.
I happen to fully realize what is at stake here with the Jihad against the Free people of the Western world. I think most people who frequent SDA do as well. Eventually the majority with be aware. I only hope that by that time it won’t be too late to save ourselves.
Anyone or any group who wants to co exist with my world is welcome. I don’t care what race color or religion. I am not prejudiced or bigoted against anyone for being who they are … However, I am not welcoming to those who want come here to destroy our freedoms and kill us. I don’t care what color or nationality they are. Presently those people are radical Islamists and our own Leftists who support them.
Every time some mindless twit like Avi Lewis goes to work for Al Jezeera, (as he just did) that is a small victory and a step forward for the Jihadis and a slap in the face to all Canadians. Avi is a communist elitist that has no idea what will happen to him if his pals win the terror war. Neither do idiots like Jack Layton and many other fools in the MSM, in Ottawa and in the Democratic party in the US.
I hope that clears it up for John Daly and other stupid people that don’t understand much of what’s going on around them.
I am simply speaking up for our way of life against those who want to destroy it. I don’t wish anything bad to come to those who simply want a better life even if they are Muslim. I can’t help but believe that not all Muslims want this kind of misery.
Hans Christian posted, “Even one of the Apostles lopped off Malthus’s ear prior to the crucifixion, but we don’t see 2 billion Christians all becoming ear loppers in the same way that 1 billion Muslims are not all head choppers”.
Hans you didn’t go far enough in the ear chopping. Immediately after the ear was cut off Jesus rebuked the chopper and said “Those who live by the sword die by the sword”. Then Jesus healed the man who had lost the ear.
I got a sneeking hunch that if Peter was Mohammed’s disciple Mahammed would have rebuked Peter for not doing a more thorough job and then shown Pete how to its done by cutting off Malthus’ head.
hmmm, it may just be the conspiracy theorist in me but JohnDaly sounds like he’s trying to bait kate into an HRC ordeal. It sounds suspiciously like entrapment when he demands yes or no answers, kinda like a lucy warman perhaps? I just calls ’em as I sees ’em and methinks he’s a rat.
The video’s being hosted at no-libs.com as well…
Kelly>
Actually I may think you have it the other way around. If this JohnDaly is actually stalking the blog administrator of this site or it’s John West poster I would suggest they have a legitimate complaint against him, particularly John West if the publisher is personally slandering him.
I would think that associating JW’s character with a nazi symbol on a web site is intent to create prejudiced hatred towards him and possibly an attempt to incite bodily violence from a prospective reader that may attempt to track the real JW down.
Fortunately JD doesn’t seem to have many readers reducing the likelihood of a violent attack against JW, but he does seem to be using his underachieving blog site as a weapon nonetheless.
Just another perspective anyway……………
Joe:
Glad you got the selective editing method.
It merely illustrates that one can focus on certain passages, out of context, to get the desired result.
Cheers
link to movie:
http://groepwilders.com/
it’s on youtube as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCrCsTMokTU
BINGO!
Ops, my bingo was for these two statements.
Posted by: Knight 99 at March 28, 2008 10:01 PM
Posted by: John West at March 28, 2008 10:18 PM
Exactly what I was thinking as well.
The movie is incredibly depressing. It reminds of a film called “Osama” that follows the life of a 6-year girl living under the Taliban.
After watching, I honestly feel sorry for kids like that 6-year old girl. I couldn’t imagine living my life in such appalling ignorance. Being a UK Muslim and denouncing the freedom that makes a vibrant city like London possible. Denouncing the uber-social liberal culture of Holland that one’s parents emigrated to in the name of freedom and opportunity. It’s bizzare – these people are in severe need of a reality check.
The only hopeful part of the video is when a page is being metaphorically “torn” out of the Koran.
I didn’t have a chance to read all comments here but if the quote from Steyn that there were about 2.5 million hits in the Netherlands is true (before LiveLeek shut it down) then 15% of the Dutch population saw Fitna. That’s significant.
It might just mean that the average Dutchman is starting to wake up. Bullies are bullies until they are called out and even putting this thing on LiveLeek (for a while) is a start.
**Apologies if this is a double post**
Ted, a Liberal and a lawyer, uses typical liberal, “progressive” techniques of twisting words to make a point, rather than actually using compelling arguments to make a point.
Please notice his use of the label “Anti-Muslim”, as opposed to the more accurate label “Anti-Islamic”. Ted, SDA-ers (if I may be so bold as to speak collectively on their behalf) are most assuredly NOT “Anti-Muslim” as we hold nothing against the Muslim people except for their adherence to the violent ideology of Islam. Indeed, we support the mission to Afghanistan to free our Muslim “neighbours” from the oppression of radical Islamic theocracy.
To put it another way, we “hate” the “sin”, not the “sinner”.
To any Muslim who stands up and denounces the violence and barbarism of their radical brethren, we will stand with them (as Belisarius and others have apparently done). To any Muslim who preaches peace and tolerance, we offer peace and tolerance. To any Muslim who preaches intolerance and hate, we offer intolerance and resolute defiance. To any Muslim who rejects criticism, we offer criticism.
We are “Anti-Hate” (we oppose the “hate” of the Islamic religion against all others), we are intolerant of the intolerant (using the classical definition of the word “tolerance”, unlike the perverted use of the word “tolerance” by the homosexual lobby which they actually mean to be “celebration”) and, because Islam is foundationaly violent and intolerant, we are “Anti-Islamic”.
Why is it acceptable to be “Anti-Christian” (as the elites of Western society “liberally” espouse) but not “Anti-Islamic”? Why is it okay to oppose a religion that preaches and practices peace and love, but it is not okay to oppose a religion that teaches and practices strife and hate?