I checked. Didn’t findmine. Update… Well, knowing this makes the gun registry price tag worth every billion. Yes?
73 Replies to “A Small Caliber Of Relief”
Didn’t find mine either. And I actually did register a few.
Incredible. 2 billion dollars.
Have YOU kicked a corrupt fwenchman in the balls today?
Those are very nice rifles. Those would be over $700 easily if made and sold nowadays. That was a steal of a price. And they’re in nicer shape than my Remington model 12.
Thanks Kate!
You plink gophers with that thing?
Now this is a rifle.
Nice Kate!! Matched set?
Page 4
*
Think of the lives and suffering that could be saved, if we just
had mandatory plastic cutlery…
Because, you know…. that 2 billion dollars the Liberals flushed
on “The Farmer Bob Rifle Registry” has worked out so well.
*
Page 4 Savage model 29B
Clarification – the photos are from an auction site. The weapon responsible for the exit of the varmint at the top of the page is in a much more “used” condition.
Or splattersoftreeandearthintheforest.com: tinyurl.com/dzce
I prefer the 17 cal HMR Marlin – stainless steel, composite stock and a scope for gophers. $550 all-in and far more accurate and lethal than a .22 mag. especially a pump-action.
It would appear some are not so relieved… http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=4344bb85-d1d0-43e3-8586-c40259b067d3&k=6980
From the article:
[I]Some firearm owners have enjoyed looking up their own guns on the website.
“I was able to find my stuff on there,” said Sean Horne, 18, who lives in Whitecourt, Alta.
“It doesn’t bug me. If they had my name or my exact postal code it would bother me.”[/I]
Sean’s likely going to get an unpleasent visit thanks to the Ottawa Citizens crack reporter.
But then I guess they can file it under their “guns falling into the wrong hands” mantra.
The bow is a challenging choice for gophers – I like it.
Luckily after the money was spent the murder rate went up.
All kidding noted about how much information is not yet on the data base. But if you can gain that much information through access to information, how much more specific information can or has been gained by hacking.
Very droll, DirtCrashr, but then wouldn’t the site name have to be bigdeadanimals.com?
One of the things I regret about being away at university is that I can’t take my Remington 700 out for target practice – but if I did, the neighbours sure would notice. 😉
You really use a shotgun on gophers?
What an obscene waste of time and money; the day they first put this nonsense up, I played around with it for a while and found six machineguns registered as “restricted handguns”. If they can f&*k things up THAT badly, you’d have to be a certifiable moron to believe anything ELSE it says.
Are you asking me, Mark? It’s a .22
If you want an idea of just how obscene the time and money spent on this project are (20,000 man-years up to the end of 2003), check out my Mark Steyn’s Letter of the Week award winning essay from 2004-02-24, Guns, Fraud, and Big Numbers in Canada, available here: tinyurl.com/ybnozb
SDC – what are the search terms you used to pull that info up?
Nice. I see that 174 guns have been reported stolen in the area which includes my postal code. That seems a lot.
This 2 billion dollar registry couldn’t make mistakes…could it?
Nice little gopher gun, Kate.
And all along I thought it was a Winchester model 61 .22. Silly me.
(Funny how many people think pump-action is only for shotguns.)
Your little gopher gun is restricted now, eh? Because, of course, the 6th .22 cal bullet in your tubular magazine is so much more dangerous than the 5th .300 Win Mag bullet in the UNrestricted high-power rifle…
The whole registry concept is an endless litany of foolishness.
*Gaak*
The 5 round magazine restriction only applies to semi-automatic centerfires, both rifle and shotgun. Since Kate’s .22 is a rimfire, it is exempt from the limit.
No, the top one is Win 61, the bottom one is the Savage. Almost identical, however.
And rimfire rifles have no magazine limits. Don’t tell the Liberals you can load 21 shorts into those old tube magazine pumps, they’d have a hissy fit!!! But not all centerfires are limited to 5 rounds, just semis. Bolts and pumps can be more than 5. Just like rifles which are designed to take pistol magazines have to be marked to show they only hold 5 for use in teh rifle, but aren’t allowed to use the exact same magazine intended for pistols which holds 10 rounds. And it’s even stranger with pistols, as both the anemic .25 and .32 ACP pistols are all declared prohibited because they’re too small but there’s no maximum on pistol ammunition that’s too powerful. Who’d want to be shot with a weak pistol round? – not me!! Make mine a .45ACP or nothing at all!
I’ve used a 12 gauge on gophers in a pinch. ‘Red Mist’ is what results.
Tom.
Thank you for the clarification/details. Kinda makes my point about foolishness, eh?
Guns don’t kill people.
Magazines don’t kill people.
Bullets moving really fast, fired by fools or criminals, may kill people. But very rarely.
The biggest killer is heart disease. The obvious solution is therefore ration cards and mandatory BMI testing for all. (If it saves just one life…)
Can you imagine doing time on a fat-food rap? Wait for it; the gun registry sounded just that silly 30 years ago…
Kate, search for “Classification: Restricted” and “Action: Full Automatic”; not only are these two incompatible (all full autos are by definition “prohibited” under Canadian law), it comes up with one “unknown handgun” and five SUBMACHINEGUNS, not handguns.
Doug, anyone who’d suggests a 45-70 for gopher hunting is truly demented! The bloody bullet probably outweighs the target. I’ll buy your 45-70 and put it to good use, in the bush, short range, for moose or bear.
The whole restricted firearms safety course is about how to deal with the bureaucratic hoops you will have to jump through. (TTA etc). It seems odd to me that you can get a restricted firearms permit without ever having fired one.
way back in the dark ages pre gun registry, I had the termidity to suggest some of the money and some of the registration fees could be used to record the rifling on a bullet fired from each handgun.
fingerprint the guns as it were.
got shouted down from all sides because it wasnt, for example, a 100% perfect solution to gun crime.
(has any man made devised system or process or mechanism EVER been PERFECT ?????)
Robert, your idea of “ballistic fingerprinting” is a fairly common one, but only among those who don’t know anything about the process to begin with; just as a quick-and-dirty example, it’s analogous to taking a tread-print of every tire sold, on the off chance that the person buying that tire might commit a murder and use their vehicle to drop the body off in the woods, thereby leaving a tire-print to compare against suspect vehicles. The problem is, both firearm barrels and tires WEAR, so the “print” you get when that item is new isn’t the same “print” that you get after 100 rounds, or 100 miles. The net effect? A whole bunch of money flushed down the toilet, with nothing to show for it.
Never understood why guns should be registered at all including handguns. If you’re deemed to be responsible enough (ie: no criminal record) to own a rifle why not a handgun? Is there something inherently evil in a handgun that would make an ordinary rifle owner turn into a killer (of humans that is).
Got a small dead animal with a bow last summer. Not to be outdone, my red and white setter placed a tooth to the brain of another…one bite, one kill.
Is there anything more culturally representative of Saskatchewan than 22’s and gopher “hunting”. (not counting Pilsner beer)
Anyway, sorry I dragged this off topic a bit. Just reminiscing.
To show the idiocy of the firearms registry, the Miramachee morons simply copied the information supplied on the registration forms and did not send a verifier out (as I believe C68 requires them to do) for firearms where certain key pieces of information are unknown. The NFA recommended that if a firearm owner is unsure about a piece of information, they should put “unknown” in all these fields given the serious criminal implications if the wrong information was entered by the firearms owner.
I did this for the small number of rifles I decided to register, and I also put them down as “air, spring or gas” under action. It was clear to me that the motive power for the rifles I was registering was a hot expanding gas that drove the bullet through the barrel. This was the only thing I was sure of as I did not have any electric rail guns or high power lasers in my posession. Every other field was marked as “unknown”. It took 4 years for the registration papers to come and I now have “unknown” firearms to which I am supposed to attach new numbers within 30 days or else.
Interestingly, this search function is truncated at 200 hits as it would be fun to find out how many people took the NFA’s advice to use “unknown” on their registration forms.
For the firearms that have information, a brief survey of Norinco SKS models registered in BC yielded a variety of calibers and thus far I’ve found:
7.62 mm
7.62×39
7.62×39 Russian
7.62/39
That’s just in a few minutes of playing around with this data.
Doesn’t this give you a nice warm and fuzzy feeling about how much safer we are with this absolutely impeccably accurate information available on 7 million of the 24 million firearms in Canada?
Tom wrote: “But not all centerfires are limited to 5 rounds, just semis.”
Except for the M1 Garand which can only be loaded with 8 shot clips. 5 cartriges in an M1 clip just don’t hold together at all.
*
“The problem is, both firearm barrels and tires WEAR, so the
“print” you get when that item is new isn’t the same “print”
that you get after 100 rounds…”
Just be glad your average hiphop lovin’ thug isn’t very well schooled.
Ballistics is a pretty accurate science… but back in the day, I could
fieldstrip a Colt Auto in about 20 seconds. Take a little more time
and you could slide in a new barrel, firing pin and extractor
in jig time.
Net result… ballistics wise – a brand new gun.
*
You can ban all the guns in the world and the bad guys will still get them. There are villages in India (or some third world country) that make handguns with the most primitive equipment. Criminals can make meth, knives, guns, explosives, whatever they want if they can’t get them otherwise.
Trusting the government with all this information is seriously silly. Some of the most inept people I know work for the government (I’m sure there are exceptions).
Haha.
Open sight single shot .22 from 1912.
It can’t miss wild Alberta grouse…
“Sure. And instead of “small dead animals”, today we’d have http://www.splattersofbloodandfurinthetrees.com”
Kate – what kind of a wuss comes on to your site and brags about the size of his lever action gun? No self respecting he-man hunts elephants with a lever action rifle, he uses a .460 Weatherby Magnum bolt action that generates 100 lbs of recoil and 8,000 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle. http://weatherby.com/products/ammo.asp?prd_id=13
no I disagree sdc, if that were the case, there wouldnt be ANY vintage guns the barrels would all be ‘worn down’ to the outside surface.
lead is much much softer than the steel used in handguns.
and if there is any ‘wear’ of note then haul them in periodically for another rifling ‘fingerprint’.
furthermore, what about all those notorious cases where guns were traced years after based on rifling forensics?
and as far as exchanging the barrel and the voila-new-rifling, are we to believe the fingerprinted barrel will then be discarded? how then do the manufacturers explain churning out just barrels?
like I said it wasnt a perfect answer but as before, the critics trounced because well shucks, t’warnt purfict!!
Robert. No offence, but you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Ballistic fingerprinting is not the science seen on TV. If you recover the weapon on site you can link it to the recovered bullet. But that negates the necessity of fingerprinting.
Also, remember that barrels are typically made in factories with tight tolerances resulting in very little variation in rifling. That is to say that the odds of a number of rifles coming off the line have a good chance of not being as “unique” as you think.
Barrels do wear down the rifling at differing rates depending on bullet velocities. Bullet velocities exceeding 4000fps for example will typically wear a barrels rifling down significantly enough to limit barrel life to about 1500 rounds or less. While a bullet with a muzzle velocity of say 2500fps will last much longer.
Look it up. It’s all on the interweb somewhere I’m sure.
The main point that is being overlooked here is that the guns are really not the source of crime. The source of crime is the people that use these “tools” for CRIME. We should register and eliminate the criminals not the guns.
As an additional point. The number of “innocent” people killed with guns is so small that the money spent on gun licencing etc could easily be put to better use saving lives in other areas such as health care, lower taxes, etc. Maybe if taxes were lower criminals would be more inclined to work for a living than stealing.
all true johnboy except the part about no idea bla bla bla.
I dont think guns used in crimes get fired anywhere near those on target ranges where the rifling pattern would quickly change. but they arent the ones used in the crimes are they?
not a perfect sol’n just an improvement on what I knew at the time was going to be a dreadful misfire (pun intended)
and no, it aint gonna stop the crime is it? but is it going to be another means to track down the triggerman and put them in prison and thus prevent a FUTURE repetition. THAT’S when your precious prevention kicks in.
could be, why not try it? better than what we’ve got !!
Robertbollocks
having met SDC I CAN assure you he KNOWS what he is talking about.
😀
Didn’t find mine either. And I actually did register a few.
Incredible. 2 billion dollars.
Have YOU kicked a corrupt fwenchman in the balls today?
Those are very nice rifles. Those would be over $700 easily if made and sold nowadays. That was a steal of a price. And they’re in nicer shape than my Remington model 12.
Thanks Kate!
You plink gophers with that thing?
Now this is a rifle.
Nice Kate!! Matched set?
Page 4
*
Think of the lives and suffering that could be saved, if we just
had mandatory plastic cutlery…
Because, you know…. that 2 billion dollars the Liberals flushed
on “The Farmer Bob Rifle Registry” has worked out so well.
*
Page 4 Savage model 29B
Clarification – the photos are from an auction site. The weapon responsible for the exit of the varmint at the top of the page is in a much more “used” condition.
“Now this is a rifle.”
Sure. And instead of “small dead animals”, today we’d have http://www.splattersofbloodandfurinthetrees.com
I don’t think so.
Or splattersoftreeandearthintheforest.com: tinyurl.com/dzce
I prefer the 17 cal HMR Marlin – stainless steel, composite stock and a scope for gophers. $550 all-in and far more accurate and lethal than a .22 mag. especially a pump-action.
http://www.splattersofbloodandfurinthetrees.com
I like it, I like it!
LOL
here’s a link to the marlin: http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/17HMRMagnum/917VS-CF.aspx
It would appear some are not so relieved…
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=4344bb85-d1d0-43e3-8586-c40259b067d3&k=6980
From the article:
[I]Some firearm owners have enjoyed looking up their own guns on the website.
“I was able to find my stuff on there,” said Sean Horne, 18, who lives in Whitecourt, Alta.
“It doesn’t bug me. If they had my name or my exact postal code it would bother me.”[/I]
Sean’s likely going to get an unpleasent visit thanks to the Ottawa Citizens crack reporter.
But then I guess they can file it under their “guns falling into the wrong hands” mantra.
The bow is a challenging choice for gophers – I like it.
Luckily after the money was spent the murder rate went up.
All kidding noted about how much information is not yet on the data base. But if you can gain that much information through access to information, how much more specific information can or has been gained by hacking.
Savages! 🙂 Those are nice guns, squirrels can get pretty big too… 🙂
I just checked and my handgun, which has been registered since ’81, does not show up..
Are you surprised?
Oops dammit this squirrel anyhow…
Very droll, DirtCrashr, but then wouldn’t the site name have to be bigdeadanimals.com?
One of the things I regret about being away at university is that I can’t take my Remington 700 out for target practice – but if I did, the neighbours sure would notice. 😉
You really use a shotgun on gophers?
What an obscene waste of time and money; the day they first put this nonsense up, I played around with it for a while and found six machineguns registered as “restricted handguns”. If they can f&*k things up THAT badly, you’d have to be a certifiable moron to believe anything ELSE it says.
Are you asking me, Mark? It’s a .22
If you want an idea of just how obscene the time and money spent on this project are (20,000 man-years up to the end of 2003), check out my Mark Steyn’s Letter of the Week award winning essay from 2004-02-24, Guns, Fraud, and Big Numbers in Canada, available here: tinyurl.com/ybnozb
SDC – what are the search terms you used to pull that info up?
Nice. I see that 174 guns have been reported stolen in the area which includes my postal code. That seems a lot.
This 2 billion dollar registry couldn’t make mistakes…could it?
Nice little gopher gun, Kate.
And all along I thought it was a Winchester model 61 .22. Silly me.
(Funny how many people think pump-action is only for shotguns.)
Your little gopher gun is restricted now, eh? Because, of course, the 6th .22 cal bullet in your tubular magazine is so much more dangerous than the 5th .300 Win Mag bullet in the UNrestricted high-power rifle…
The whole registry concept is an endless litany of foolishness.
*Gaak*
The 5 round magazine restriction only applies to semi-automatic centerfires, both rifle and shotgun. Since Kate’s .22 is a rimfire, it is exempt from the limit.
No, the top one is Win 61, the bottom one is the Savage. Almost identical, however.
And rimfire rifles have no magazine limits. Don’t tell the Liberals you can load 21 shorts into those old tube magazine pumps, they’d have a hissy fit!!! But not all centerfires are limited to 5 rounds, just semis. Bolts and pumps can be more than 5. Just like rifles which are designed to take pistol magazines have to be marked to show they only hold 5 for use in teh rifle, but aren’t allowed to use the exact same magazine intended for pistols which holds 10 rounds. And it’s even stranger with pistols, as both the anemic .25 and .32 ACP pistols are all declared prohibited because they’re too small but there’s no maximum on pistol ammunition that’s too powerful. Who’d want to be shot with a weak pistol round? – not me!! Make mine a .45ACP or nothing at all!
I’ve used a 12 gauge on gophers in a pinch. ‘Red Mist’ is what results.
Tom.
Thank you for the clarification/details. Kinda makes my point about foolishness, eh?
Guns don’t kill people.
Magazines don’t kill people.
Bullets moving really fast, fired by fools or criminals, may kill people. But very rarely.
The biggest killer is heart disease. The obvious solution is therefore ration cards and mandatory BMI testing for all. (If it saves just one life…)
Can you imagine doing time on a fat-food rap? Wait for it; the gun registry sounded just that silly 30 years ago…
Kate, search for “Classification: Restricted” and “Action: Full Automatic”; not only are these two incompatible (all full autos are by definition “prohibited” under Canadian law), it comes up with one “unknown handgun” and five SUBMACHINEGUNS, not handguns.
Doug, anyone who’d suggests a 45-70 for gopher hunting is truly demented! The bloody bullet probably outweighs the target. I’ll buy your 45-70 and put it to good use, in the bush, short range, for moose or bear.
The whole restricted firearms safety course is about how to deal with the bureaucratic hoops you will have to jump through. (TTA etc). It seems odd to me that you can get a restricted firearms permit without ever having fired one.
way back in the dark ages pre gun registry, I had the termidity to suggest some of the money and some of the registration fees could be used to record the rifling on a bullet fired from each handgun.
fingerprint the guns as it were.
got shouted down from all sides because it wasnt, for example, a 100% perfect solution to gun crime.
(has any man made devised system or process or mechanism EVER been PERFECT ?????)
Robert, your idea of “ballistic fingerprinting” is a fairly common one, but only among those who don’t know anything about the process to begin with; just as a quick-and-dirty example, it’s analogous to taking a tread-print of every tire sold, on the off chance that the person buying that tire might commit a murder and use their vehicle to drop the body off in the woods, thereby leaving a tire-print to compare against suspect vehicles. The problem is, both firearm barrels and tires WEAR, so the “print” you get when that item is new isn’t the same “print” that you get after 100 rounds, or 100 miles. The net effect? A whole bunch of money flushed down the toilet, with nothing to show for it.
Never understood why guns should be registered at all including handguns. If you’re deemed to be responsible enough (ie: no criminal record) to own a rifle why not a handgun? Is there something inherently evil in a handgun that would make an ordinary rifle owner turn into a killer (of humans that is).
Got a small dead animal with a bow last summer. Not to be outdone, my red and white setter placed a tooth to the brain of another…one bite, one kill.
Is there anything more culturally representative of Saskatchewan than 22’s and gopher “hunting”. (not counting Pilsner beer)
Anyway, sorry I dragged this off topic a bit. Just reminiscing.
To show the idiocy of the firearms registry, the Miramachee morons simply copied the information supplied on the registration forms and did not send a verifier out (as I believe C68 requires them to do) for firearms where certain key pieces of information are unknown. The NFA recommended that if a firearm owner is unsure about a piece of information, they should put “unknown” in all these fields given the serious criminal implications if the wrong information was entered by the firearms owner.
I did this for the small number of rifles I decided to register, and I also put them down as “air, spring or gas” under action. It was clear to me that the motive power for the rifles I was registering was a hot expanding gas that drove the bullet through the barrel. This was the only thing I was sure of as I did not have any electric rail guns or high power lasers in my posession. Every other field was marked as “unknown”. It took 4 years for the registration papers to come and I now have “unknown” firearms to which I am supposed to attach new numbers within 30 days or else.
Interestingly, this search function is truncated at 200 hits as it would be fun to find out how many people took the NFA’s advice to use “unknown” on their registration forms.
For the firearms that have information, a brief survey of Norinco SKS models registered in BC yielded a variety of calibers and thus far I’ve found:
7.62 mm
7.62×39
7.62×39 Russian
7.62/39
That’s just in a few minutes of playing around with this data.
Doesn’t this give you a nice warm and fuzzy feeling about how much safer we are with this absolutely impeccably accurate information available on 7 million of the 24 million firearms in Canada?
Tom wrote: “But not all centerfires are limited to 5 rounds, just semis.”
Except for the M1 Garand which can only be loaded with 8 shot clips. 5 cartriges in an M1 clip just don’t hold together at all.
*
“The problem is, both firearm barrels and tires WEAR, so the
“print” you get when that item is new isn’t the same “print”
that you get after 100 rounds…”
Just be glad your average hiphop lovin’ thug isn’t very well schooled.
Ballistics is a pretty accurate science… but back in the day, I could
fieldstrip a Colt Auto in about 20 seconds. Take a little more time
and you could slide in a new barrel, firing pin and extractor
in jig time.
Net result… ballistics wise – a brand new gun.
*
You can ban all the guns in the world and the bad guys will still get them. There are villages in India (or some third world country) that make handguns with the most primitive equipment. Criminals can make meth, knives, guns, explosives, whatever they want if they can’t get them otherwise.
Trusting the government with all this information is seriously silly. Some of the most inept people I know work for the government (I’m sure there are exceptions).
Haha.
Open sight single shot .22 from 1912.
It can’t miss wild Alberta grouse…
“Sure. And instead of “small dead animals”, today we’d have http://www.splattersofbloodandfurinthetrees.com”
Kate – what kind of a wuss comes on to your site and brags about the size of his lever action gun? No self respecting he-man hunts elephants with a lever action rifle, he uses a .460 Weatherby Magnum bolt action that generates 100 lbs of recoil and 8,000 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle.
http://weatherby.com/products/ammo.asp?prd_id=13
no I disagree sdc, if that were the case, there wouldnt be ANY vintage guns the barrels would all be ‘worn down’ to the outside surface.
lead is much much softer than the steel used in handguns.
and if there is any ‘wear’ of note then haul them in periodically for another rifling ‘fingerprint’.
furthermore, what about all those notorious cases where guns were traced years after based on rifling forensics?
and as far as exchanging the barrel and the voila-new-rifling, are we to believe the fingerprinted barrel will then be discarded? how then do the manufacturers explain churning out just barrels?
like I said it wasnt a perfect answer but as before, the critics trounced because well shucks, t’warnt purfict!!
Robert. No offence, but you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Ballistic fingerprinting is not the science seen on TV. If you recover the weapon on site you can link it to the recovered bullet. But that negates the necessity of fingerprinting.
Also, remember that barrels are typically made in factories with tight tolerances resulting in very little variation in rifling. That is to say that the odds of a number of rifles coming off the line have a good chance of not being as “unique” as you think.
Barrels do wear down the rifling at differing rates depending on bullet velocities. Bullet velocities exceeding 4000fps for example will typically wear a barrels rifling down significantly enough to limit barrel life to about 1500 rounds or less. While a bullet with a muzzle velocity of say 2500fps will last much longer.
Look it up. It’s all on the interweb somewhere I’m sure.
The main point that is being overlooked here is that the guns are really not the source of crime. The source of crime is the people that use these “tools” for CRIME. We should register and eliminate the criminals not the guns.
As an additional point. The number of “innocent” people killed with guns is so small that the money spent on gun licencing etc could easily be put to better use saving lives in other areas such as health care, lower taxes, etc. Maybe if taxes were lower criminals would be more inclined to work for a living than stealing.
all true johnboy except the part about no idea bla bla bla.
I dont think guns used in crimes get fired anywhere near those on target ranges where the rifling pattern would quickly change. but they arent the ones used in the crimes are they?
not a perfect sol’n just an improvement on what I knew at the time was going to be a dreadful misfire (pun intended)
and no, it aint gonna stop the crime is it? but is it going to be another means to track down the triggerman and put them in prison and thus prevent a FUTURE repetition. THAT’S when your precious prevention kicks in.
could be, why not try it? better than what we’ve got !!
Robertbollocks
having met SDC I CAN assure you he KNOWS what he is talking about.
😀