NDP Leader and would-be Prime Minister Jack Layton, speaking before the Islamic Society of North America, May 20, 2006;
“We also have to put an end to the security certificates – the security certificates and that whole piece of legislation, bill C-36, must be thrown out!”
(wmv)
Luc Portelance, Assistant Director of Operations, CSIS on June 3, 2006;
“This is the largest counter-terrorism operation and arrests in Canada since the creation of the Anti-Terrorism Act [C-36] and the amendment of the Criminal Code to better define terrorism.”
“As for Muslims here, they should get a fair hearing like anyone else. No better . No worse.”
Rev; I usually agree with you but when I look at the farce of a trial for Zaccarias Moussawi and the parting words from him, the hold-out juror and even Bin Laden, I have my reservations. We will see how this current well-laid case is presented, tried and convicted, in Canada, under the Conservatives, with Liberal appointed judges. I wait, the world waits, watches.
Rebuild failed: Renaming tempfile ‘/home/kate/public_html/archives/cat_insufferable_twits.html.new’ failed: Renaming ‘/home/kate/public_html/archives/cat_insufferable_twits.html.new’ to ‘/home/kate/public_html/archives/cat_insufferable_twits.html’ failed: No such file or directory
Just be patient, SwineMonkey. The above is what I get when I try to post a reply. Thanks a bunch, Kate, by the way–I love the name of your temp file. 🙂
Still no response from the Snoop Dawg, I see!
Au contraire, SwineMonkey, I pointed to a couple of good starting-points for your research into due process. Your subsequent post, frankly, was gobbledegook. I didn’t see a question in it.
If you are like Dawg, you will completely ignore the “facts” and instead dig up dead horses, irrelevant or insignificant parallel situations, and more often than not, change the topic. That is how Socialist Utopians like Dawg survive and make sense of the utter failure of their dogma to make sense of what is happening in the world today.
I looked in vain for the slightest concrete example from DT to back up this windy series of charges. I feel as though I’m being asked to defend myself against the issuance of a security certificate.
Most of the 17 alleged terrorists are Canadian-born, which leaves the immigration issue a few steps behind. In any case it’s funny to read DT’s attacks on immigration from non-democratic states–that’s pretty rich, coming from a former Czech. 🙂
Sorry about the duplicate posts, incidentally.
If you want to learn about the 14 points of Fascism just google “fascism 14” and then you can choose. That way you can’t just dismiss the one site you would have to dismiss them all.
ET–you read up about fascism and then tell me you can’t find at lot of elements of fascism, especially south of the border,but growing here! Its bad enough its growning but for so few to see and understand it is a little spooky!
Dr. Dawg: My great grandfather and grandfather left Czechoslovakia in 1935, when it was the most liberal of the democracies in Europe. The Czech state became the model that most Euro free states were later based on. Soon after 1935 the Nazis invaded, then after the war a puppet Soviet government was installed. Today, the Czech republic is truly democratic once again, and the majority of its people are very pro-American, incredibly pro-Bush, and dedicated liberal democrats. So, coming from me, my stance makes perfect sense.
As far as my charge against you, it is based on many thousands of words of debate on blogs including my own. For example, taking snippits from historic dynosaurs, like White Supremicism, and drawing parallels to conservative views on Muslim chauvanism, is a dodge… the two are completely unrelated and the one irrelevant in today’s context.
But, you are most definately one of the most respectful and difficult Socialists to debate. You’ve had me down for a three count many times leaving me to lick my wounds and return to fight another day. If there were more like you, you’d see much less echo chamber on the blogs. So, please accept my appreciation as much as my critism and I hope that others see it that way as well. Echo chambers just make us all more extreme.
Why should any country destroy it’s security and harmony by seeking immigrants that have at core an incompatible worldview, whose religion is intolerant and insists on non-assimilation, that denigrates females and has jihad as a principle?
Well said Penny:
I wonder what Dr Dawg & his dispiples think of female circumsision? Sewing Womens genitals up like a bad cut?
How about driving, going out without a male relative? Honor killings even if the Lady was raped?
The Arab saying “a mans honor is found between his womens legs” is a common quote.
How does Dr Dawg feel about female education, as jihadist Muslims keep insisting, Women should not even learn to read.
Does dr Dawg not see the Islamofacists intimidate Muslims hear, as did the German Bund. Germans before ww2?
What about medicine being denied Women Dr in Muslim rqadical communities?
All this was made possibe in Canada, & Almost sharia law because the LIb-Left is in the hof madness , condradictory in the absolute.
Lets go too these crazy individuals end of logic. Multiculturalism is designed primarly to create a caste system. With benifits Or none depending on race, gender, religion or ethicity. All have different set of rules.
This is not a Democracy. Its a Tribalized Nation with no law that is equal. It is a profoundly anti- Democratic vison. Its shows exactly what the NDP plus liberal dupes would chain us too, eventualy leeding to real slavery.
Its entrenched bigotry. Why are sikh kids allowed knives in school but no one else. This is law applied equaly? Its NOT a requirment of there religion. Read up on it yourself if you think I am lying. But this is only one example of many injustices being pimped off as tolerance.
In reality except for markings it stops any form of real intergration.
Just my opinion.
This is an unscientific poll in today’s Globe. It would appear Jack’s followers are not with him on cultural relativism. It will be interesting to see what the next set of professional polls show.
Is moderate Canadian Muslim leaders doing enough to combat radicalism?
Yes (11%) 1101 votes
No (89%) 9047 votes
Total votes: 10148
Seldom do we see a Globe poll this skewed. Maybe Canadians are waking up?
My guess is that Ignatieff has now clenched the Liberal leadership; no one else in the leadership race can be trusted on this National Security file.
Let’s hope that Canadians have had enough of being fooled by their political elitist appeasers and will now buttress our fragile democracy with their historical backbone that made this country great.
Nomdenet:
I’m not taking any position on multiculturalism here (although I would note that the multiculturalism of today was criticized by it’s maker, Trudeau). My point is that multiculturalism not really relevant to the issue of these 17 terrorists. If it was, you would see something very different in the reaction of radical fundamentalist Muslims in other countries since none of them have a multicultural policy.
Most countries deal with Muslims and other immigrants in their own fashion and the results however are surprisingly similar. So in the UK, where you’ve had a strong isolationist approach (‘come work for us, but don’t expect us to allow you to integrate into society’), you have the children of immigrants blowing up trains and buses. Many in the UK are now saying we need a multicultural policy in order to integrate immigrants better.
So what I’m saying is that if we want to debate our policies on multiculturalism, that’s fine. Go ahead. Probably a healthy thing in some senses because it hasn’t been done in a while. But don’t start thinking that tinkering with, cancelling or reformulating our multiculturalism policies is going to stop the next batch of terrorists.
By the same token, we can decide not to invite or allow any more immigrants from any country to enter Canada if we want to. In my view, that too won’t stop the next batch of terrorists. Why? Because they are already here and they were born here to immigrants who came decades ago. Could changing our immigration policies stop more terrorism decades from now? Who knows but don’t start thinking that tinkering with, cancelling or reformulating our immigration policies is going to stop the next batch of terrorists.
Ted
Cerberus
Isn’t life/death in Canada awful, degrading, for the “falsely accused” Islamist terrorists?
Go back to your homelands. You have done too much damage, along with your dhimmis, to Canada already. The MSM will not protect you there. You shall be safe in your homelands.
Notice the fashion note: “navy blue hijab”. Down with the MSM. MSM have red-blood on their hands.
…
OTTAWA — The path to this past weekend’s stunning arrests of 17 people in connection to an alleged terrorist plot is littered with the broken lives of the falsely accused
…..
Asha Muhyadin wiped her tears from her eyes with her navy blue hijab and wondered how she will face her neighbours now that her eldest son is an accused terrorist.
“‘I’m no terrorist, mom,’ he says too me. Help me. How can I help him? We’re finished, finished, finished,” Muhyadin said yesterday.
…
Despite the show of support for police, cracks in the community’s trust in government and media coverage was obvious.
“We are double victimized,” one man said. “We are the ones who suffer the vandalism and are verbally and physically abused.”
Others said they were worried the accused have already been convicted in the public’s mind.
There are lingering grudges too against CSIS, particularly over the fallout from Project Thread, once billed as a major terror bust that ultimately dissolved into minor immigration charges against 19 men.
Many resent the security service’s tactics and techniques in that and other investigations, and CSIS headquarters in Toronto was a target of the bomb plot. …
cnews
Actually, Ted, multiculturalism IS isolationist. It locks immigrants into sociocultural groups, it defines the group behaviour as a direct continuity from their behaviour in ‘the old country’ and inhibits and discourages adaptive changes to the new country and new population.
That’s the problem with multiculturalism. First, it defines individuals, not as Canadians but as members of an immigrant group – which can be 2nd and 3rd generation. It locates the source of their identity, not within an adaptation to Canada and all its population, but within a focus on the continuity of the ‘old culture’.
Then, it refuses to evaluate these ‘group cultures’ as to whether they function in a robust mannter, within a modern industrial economy and democracy. Islamism is a tribal, agricultural ideology; it doesn’t function well within a modern industrial democracy.
So, this enforced isolation of multiculturalism flings the youth of that group, back into the group. The old ideology does nothing for them, and they are readily open to extremism, with its, yes, romanticism, utopianism, passion. All of these emotions are lacking in the ‘old culture’ which is frozen in time; they are not available in the Canadian culture which is non-existent.
Along with the sterility and isolationism of multiculturalism, we also have bilingualism, which sets up a closed elite within the government and senior positions of authority.
AND, finally but not last – is Islamism itself. A religious, sociopolitical ideology that is frozen in the 10th century, tribal and medieval, refusing to modernize.
Put at least two of these together (eg multiculturalism and Islamism) and you’ve got your very own ammonium nitrate.
Antenor; I was wondering about that date too, and whether or not it had anything to do with the timing of the arrests. The RCMP are pretty tight-lipped on what or when because they don’t want to tip anyone off. I won’t be losing any sleep however; I’ve come to realize that these freaks are incapable of reason, and the name of the game is un-certainty and fear.
I am greatly re-assured by the efforts of our new government and our security agencies. This is proof they are on the job and not fooled. No longer can terrorists use the na·ive·té of some (too many) against the citizenry of this country or any other. The time for dithering is over.
agitfact :
First it was the editorialist that said it.
Though even a fool knows when theose pronounments where made by him.
CTV.Al Qaeda attack on Canada ‘probable’: CSIS
Updated Wed. May. 10 2006 11:27 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
Al Qaeda included Canada on a list of target countries in both November 2002 and March 2004.
Meanwhile, Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan are coming under repeated attack from al Qaeda and Taliban elements opposed to the new western-supported government in Kabul.
Hope your satisfied. Being its CTV, no conservative bais need apply.
Cheri said: “The time for dithering is over.”
Right: Shoot first, ask questions later.
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice; moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. Barry Goldwater
…
CKNW NEWS
Suspected terrorists removed from inbound Air Canada flight
Jun, 04 2006 – 10:40 PM
RICHMOND/CKNW(AM980) – Air Canada says it may have been young people acting up on a flight from London, England to Vancouver, but passengers onboard the flight say otherwise.
There were some tense moments as the Air Canada plane sat on the tarmac of London’s Heathrow Airport.
Vancouver passenger, Ivan Bulic says British police boarded the plane and told them to stay in their seats, while five males were dragged off the plane, “When police came onboard, heavily-armed police with bullet-proof vests and dogs, and two busloads of police surrounded the aircraft, people were obvioulsy wondering what was going on.”
The flight touched down safely in Vancouver Sunday afternoon.
Another passenger confirms the suspects were all adult males and remained quiet as they were being removed from the flight.
http://www.voy.com/178771/1730.html
No, steve d. YOU have to do some reading on fascism. I assure you, I have already done a great deal. That’s my point; your 14 points, wherever they come from, are totally invalid descriptions of fascism.
No, the USA is not a fascist state. Because you and others set up a fallacious description of fascism, and then, try to lock the US into that description, is nonsense. Furthermore, your 14 points don’t describe the USA.
Didn’t Ms. Kadar leave canada with her sons because she was afraid they would grow up gay, and preferred them to be suicide bombers. Does the ssm crowd still support these terrorists as misunderstood youth. When did canadian troops invade canada. Was that an invasion when they went to shovel snow in TO. This is hurricane season in the USA, and we cdns should be really concerned about the plot being hatched in the US to annilate (sp) our Oilers. Now that is a plot worth stopping. Wonder if Scott B supports Islam, and sides with the plotters. The leftists support those that are against everything they stand for and can’t get that thru their heads. And, muslims have been fighting our values for 2000 yrs, before any US or Cdn troops existed. I have always said that western troops should be dressed in pigskin uniforms, spray all vehicles with pigfat, and dip all bullets etc in pigfat, to keep these idiots out of paradise and those poor virgins alone. What happens to these women once they are no longer virgins. Don’t you feel sorry for all those disappointed martyrs who are burning in hell, and not in paradise.
Most of the 17 alleged terrorists are Canadian-born, which leaves the immigration issue a few steps behind.
How so? Their parents are immigrants which still leaves the question of quantity and quality of immigration wide open.
These would-be jihadis didn’t exist in a vacuum. They have parents. Immigrant parents, who obviously did a real poor job assimilating them and, who really knows, are possible sympathizers. Or, just as alarming, were neutral vessels. It’s very unlikely that in the family, among friends, and at the neighborhood mosque everyone was clueless as to what they were doing.
And, Dawg, one Oklahoma City bombing by a deranged white guy has no symmetry to the 30 years and rising global body count of unrelenting Islamic terrorist attacks. Minimize all you want to advance your agenda, but the facts and history have crushed your point.
All Muslims aren’t terrorists, but in the last 30 years – removing the IRA and Basques with their specific targets – very few terrorists aren’t Muslims.
Cheri:
“I am greatly re-assured by the efforts of our new government and our security agencies.”
Please. The investigations have been ongoing for over a year. The specific sting operation itself pre-dates the election. As Kate’s post itself says right up there at the top: “”This is the largest counter-terrorism operation and arrests in Canada since the creation of the Anti-Terrorism Act [C-36] and the amendment of the Criminal Code to better define terrorism.” That would be the Anti-Terrorism Act and CC amendments brought in by the Liberals.
This is no victory for the Liberals or the Conservatives, but for all of us. Our security and police forces have done their jobs, brilliantly, to protect us.
Most who want to boast are satisfied with left-right partisanship and leaving the political parties out of it which is only slightly better. We have enough partisanship on the stuff that matters a bit. We don’t need more partisanship on stuff that matters a lot.
Ted
Cerberus
steve d . . . . . what does your own bathwater taste like ?
DT:
Thanks for that. My guess at your background was obviously way off the mark. I apologize.
I raised Oklahoma only because people’s reaction to it was so different (once they had realized, of course, that Muslims were not to blame). No one put them in a “white” box, or an “ultra-conservative” box. No one used braod categories. They were murderous neo-Nazi thugs. Period.
Consider the difference with these (alleged) thugs in Toronto. Their entire community is getting the blame. Their leaders aren’t doing enough. Anyone from the community could be a terrorist. All of them, according to one extremist on this very thread, should be hanged. Note the broadness of the categories. Note the homogeneity that we impose on “the Muslim community.”
In any case, I do appreciate our exchanges. Now let me get back to digging up that horse. 🙂
Ted,
You are correct. Our collective security is not supposed to be a partisan issue. We all win when we don’t get murdered by islamofascists.
But…(the inevitable but) we need to make that clear to lucky Jack who seems not to get it. He was the one who was making politics out of our security arrangement as illustrated in the original story of this post. He was doing what the US Democrats are doing in the US. That is: He’s selling out security interests to drive his agenda and place a wedge between the various groups in society.
Cheri:
Valid point. I try to be optimistic with our justice system (or lack of one to be precise)but as you aver. With Liberal judges & the PC mentality.
They well may end up walking & plotting for the next time.It will be intersting to see the competing interests.
Already the Muslim community thinks its all about them. What about the Canadians that would have died by these fanatics. Excuses already tumbling from appeasers. Its nausiating.
Another result of multiculturalism. All society,s are the same but Europian western ideals. They are the devils.
No matter slavery was ended, civil rights accrued, education for all. Universities. Hospitals. Now look at Muslim Nations.How many books , schools or grat Universities do they have. Gee how many books outside the Koran have even been translated?
Until Liberals & socialists realize all cultures & people are not moraly equivalent. Some are evil , some inhuman.
I use the Aztecs & Carib indians as examples. Both Canaibal cultures. Both into human sacrifie at unbelievable levals.
The carib indians do not exist anymore. They where repalced by plantation owners. The spanish annialated them. Why? Because they kept people in corrals like cattle & slaughted them for meat. Children where a special treat. Even the hardened Conquistadors where sickened.
To the biase dlegal system in this Country that loves criminals, you probably hit it on the head.
I will still hope though that sanity prevades there councils.
Good points, ET. Let me add that multi-culturalism is a nice divisive game advanced by the left to propagate victim politics. A game that Dems/Libs reap voters by playing.
Another divisive aspect to the multi-culti racket is that if all cultures are assigned equal value, then a dysfunctional culture can’t be criticised or be forced to change. You get to remain protected in your dysfunction. Anyone challenging the behavior of a dysfunctional group is automatically labelled a racist.
Bill Cosby is slammed by the MSM and Dem politicos because he repeatedly asks urban blacks to clean up their act. Harsi Ali is vilified for daring to criticize the dysfunction of Islam. Whites are completely muzzled for fear of being labelled racist. And so it goes.
Penny,
A racist is someone who is winning an argument against a lefty. It’s used as a tool to crush dissent and keep those who disagree in fear of speaking out.
Being called a racist is like being called a pedophile or rapist. It may not be true but after being labelled, truth doesn’t matter – the damage is done. It is a cheap, weaselly, low-end slur against an opponent. It’s used by the despicable and dishonest.
Dawg; Consider the difference with these (alleged) thugs in Toronto. Their entire community is getting the blame. Their leaders aren’t doing enough. Anyone from the community could be a terrorist. All of them, according to one extremist on this very thread, should be hanged. Note the broadness of the categories. Note the homogeneity that we impose on “the Muslim community.”
Nonsense Dawg – You are guilty of the same sin by seizing on 1 individuals irresponsible comment about hanging to tar the entire right. Fact; Muslim community leaders and the Muslim community in general have done precious little to renounce terrorism and denounce the terrorists in their midst. They are pre-occupied with an anticipated anti-muslim backlash rather than with dealing with the Islamofascists. Your remarks smack of the usual left wing need to blame western societies for all the ills of the world.
Socialism: The Road To Hell On earth.
Socialism is allied with Islamist jihad:
Socialist jihadi Hell on earth. …
Darfur Remembered
Patrick Porter at Oxblog finds Christopher Hitchens thinking about Darfur and Iraq.
I sometimes ask myself: if it weren’t for Iraq, could we have done more, or even something about Darfur?…Without this, we might have been able to try and arrest the genocide of our African Moslem brothers and sisters at the hands of death squads of Arab Moslems.
But, even as I say that I realise… that it was decided to play Darfur Kofi Annan’s way. This time it’ll be consultation, this time it’ll be negotiation. This time no pre-emption, this time no unilateralism. And we know that the genocidaires ran out the clock of that spare time to complete the genocide. Now there’s almost no-one left to kill.
So everyone has to face this question. And I’m sorry to say that it will not be decided by jokes about George Bush’s IQ.
Hitchens instantly realizes that from a certain point of view Iraq represents an opportunity to blame America for Darfur. But he is smarter than that. He also realizes that, come to think about it, there are a number of places throughout the world where the International Community has decided to play things the Kofi Annan way where things are not going so well. Darfur is one, but the Congo is another. And those places are in the long, slow road to hell. Not a hell from which there is some prospect of redemption; not one in which formerly destroyed marshes are returning to life; or which has revived, for good or ill its pilgrim trade; only one in which despair is given. Despair not only given, but guaranteed. By the Kofi Annan way. “So everyone has got to face this question,” because the Kofi Annan way independently provides a route to damnation. Why, Hitch? It’s the very question nobody ever wants to face. Which is why things are always going to be debated in terms of George Bush’s IQ. belmont club
Who is Hitch? Hitch is Christopher Hitchens, former leftist. Hitch left the left.
Another who left the left here:
The Fall of My Leftist House of Mirrors
By Michael Lopez-Calderon
Calderon’s Call | September 9, 2005
That crashing, piercing sound you hear is the fall of my Leftist House of Mirrors. A worldview that purported moral truths, cloaked itself in the language of arcane academia, venerated its doubtlessly dedicated, sincere intellectual stalwarts and activists – Noam Chomsky, Daniel Ellsberg, Benjamin Spock, Howard Zinn, Edward Said — and preyed upon alienated young idealists who like me were in search of a workable Utopia, proved a chimera of monumental proportions. That my Leftist House of Mirrors produced an illusion on such a massive scale is now evidenced by the reaction of the Left’s priestly class to the horrific Islamo-Fascist act of mass murder on September 11, 2001.
The Leftist response to that wickedness bordered on the anemic at best, collaboration with evil at worst. That what’s left of the Left would hesitate in condemning this monstrous act; that it would even countenance the rubbish of “chickens coming home to roost” or as Chomsky quipped, “a nasty response to U.S. nastiness around the world,” unequivocally betrays a hatred of the United States, democracy, indeed even Western civilization, that is as equal parts lethal as it is irrational.
My Leftist House of Mirrors began to crack less than a decade ago. But first, a tour de force of the development of my political Weltanschauung. more:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19399
Jack Layton is right. The real threat are the cowards who let alleged terrorists dictate their agenda and cannibalize the civil liberties that make this country so great in the first place.
The overwhelming number of commenters (and this blog’s author) seem to have the combined intelligence of my cat.
The correct way to fight terrorists is to arrest, charge, and prosecute them in the traditional Canadian way, with the government proving their case. THIS is what Layton was talking about.
The un-Canadian way is to allege that someone is a real danger but not provide any evidence to justify the allegation – “Just trust us”.
Well I don’t. Public convictions are far more effective (and democratic, remember that?) at demonstrating strong Canadian values then security certificates, hidden behind the ‘National security’ curtain.
We’ll see if you tough guy keyboarders can appreciate the value of ‘evidence’ over your largely racist, vitriolic, and zenophobic chest thumping. When you choose to leave your comfy white caves the rest of us will welcome you into civilised society.
None of you see the big picture – I believe that Jack Layton does. It’s called ‘Vision’. Get some.
Ted, yes I too learned recently that Trudeau stated in a speech in 1995 that he’d foolishly armed the Petit Gar from Shawinigan with unsafe ammo (I’ve paraphrased). I would actually trust Trudeau with the terrorism file, not much else though.
Trudeau saw the unintended consequences of his letting multi-culti relativism dilute our culture and take us back into time.
The only way we can beat Islamofascism in the long run is to help Moderates reform their medieval socio-economic religion. Like Socialism this is a state-religion. Very dangerous. So we must show the Moderates that we stand for Canadian values not multi-culti relativism that beleives all cultures are EQUAL – how could that be? We must state clearly that we believe that we have a better way than tribal cultures. When the Moderates realize that we are serious about our own values, hopefully they will leverage our new found courage to start to reform their medieval religion.
I’m surprised that you aren’t aware of Europe’s disastrous adoption of multi-culti isolationism. Paris is literally burning. Germany let its Turkish “temporary” workers ghettoize themselves. Tony Blair tried to reform Labour, but Muslims have filled the cultural vacuum left vacant by the leftist multi-cultis in LondonStan. It’s part and parcel of their utopian socialism that all things are EQUAL.
Right, nomdenet. All modes of life are NOT equal. Some are functional in small villages based around no-growth populations and no-change peasant agriculture. They are disastrous in economies that require rapid innovations, mass production, surplus economies, etc.
Very nice post, Mikey NMM. The reason why the Islamic community is getting the blame, is because the ideology of islamofascism, is Islamic. It’s an extreme version in part, but only in part. Read the Koran; it’s very explicit that a duty of Muslims is to kill off infidels and/or insist on their subservience to Islam. Unless and until the Muslim community itself, stands up, and publicly rejects this statute of the Koran, and rejects islamofascism, then, the whole community will be blamed for this ideology.
It’s up to them to reject it. Loud and clear.
Revnant Dream,
I can better the reference to CTV. Look at http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=403.
We should not be surprised to surface on an al Qaeda target list in November 2002 after having been involved militarily in the “war on terror” since November 2001. The time line says “cause and effect,” whether we like it or not.
Where is the evidence to the contrary?
Jack Layton is part of the problem. His own hateful rhetoric about Americans, George Bush, Stephen Harper, etc may have contributed to these young people’s ideologies. Coupled with the young people’s “leaders”, such their imans and their own parents. If one brings their young in an environment that keeps instilling hate towards another group (being americans, anglo canadians, etc), these young people will become brainwashed over time.
I am hoping that Jack Layton honestly examines his messaging and comes clean that he may have contributed to this mindset.
Dr. Dawg said
“12. Rampant cronyism and corruption
13. Fraudulent elections”
Recall Volpe Youth and Adscam
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=0c1b3dca-544a-45d8-8ce3-f577f9cb43a6&k=99910
Young Trudeau: Fascist, anti-Semite, and separatist
A new book on the late prime minister’s early years casts a deep shadow over Canadians’ popular image of the liberal, enlightened statesman, Robert Sibley writes.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=fd9bcfa3-47ab-468e-93d1-cf839b5bf5c3&k=98392
Guns heard guns at alleged terror camp
‘Kind of hard to miss’
Chris Wattie, National Post
Published: Monday, June 05, 2006
WASHAGO, Ont. — It was the bursts of automatic gunfire that made the farmer in this tiny central Ontario tourist community think something was amiss as he fed his animals after dark.
“I feed my animals at night,” the farmer said yesterday. “So I’d be outside late at night and I’d hear the gunfire from over there, automatic gunfire. I’d hear rat-a-tat-a-tat-a-tat.
“I just knew there was something wrong about them. It was obvious they were doing some kind of military training.”
The sounds of war were coming from what police now describe as a terrorist training camp on an isolated property just outside Washago, about 150 kilometres north of Toronto.
Now we want to hear more apologists for acts of violence planned or otherwise?
Yep, you want to blow up the PEACE Tower!?! Yes a truly symbolic act of defiance.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060605.wxterror05/BNStory
Targets of the alleged plot included political and economic symbols such as the Parliament Buildings and Peace Tower in Ottawa, along with the CN Tower and Toronto Stock Exchange in Toronto.
It will be interesting to read the reports of videotape and wiretap as it is introduced into evidence for the ensuing trials and the defence for accumulating 3 metric tonnes of ammonium nitrate in an urban environment.
Wiping out the TSE, would have been a nice replay of the World Trade Center Canadian style. Yes, that would help investor confidence.
This does not sound like they had very peaceable intentions.
Hey, Guy Fawkes where have you been all these years? Oh sorry, wrong religion.
Just doing God’s handiwork I suppose. A little extracurricular organic farming with fuel oil and fertilizer in my city garden plot. Totally plausible.
For an interesting review of this type of “organic farming” try this link for a visual:
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h2048.html
Interesting that authorities in the US are considering reopening this case to probe for further Al Quaeda links.
Will the real fascists please identify themselves this would save the investigators much time and trouble.
“[Dr. Dawg has] become rather like King Midas, except that everything turns not into gold, but into a circus.”
Albert Einstein paraphrased
Thus “politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.”
Hence, “He who would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.”
Thomas Paine
So to contradict the poster FREE up above we will neither hang Dr. Dawg nor let the accused swing before trial. BTW capital punishment is not an option in Canada; we are somewhat more humane since the advent of Guy Paul Morin and David Marshall, etc.
Revoke citizenship!! If a person can have their citizenship revoked because they lied on the entry form, don’t you think this qualifies?
H/T to Harry for “War has been declared on us for some time now, some groups in our society will never accept this reality.” When a person advocates for the destruction of Canada during a time of war, is that not treason and is it not punishible by death?
Multiculturalism encourages multiple hostile entities, rather than a Canadian unity.
Pat
RealCanuck: “tough guy keyboarders”.what like you? You don’t even know the life experiences of any of the posters. What makes you so brave and right? Your cat I suppose.
Since when does anyone here know the correct way to fight terrorist? Does anyone anywhere know? Of course not. That is why we have them in our midst (I’ll throw in allegedly before I get flamed). But all of us should remember that ‘WE” are not the state. The state doesn’t care about us, other than than to pay our taxes. I resent the politicians as much as I resent any terrorist. If anyone here has ever been the target of the state, you’ll quickly find out how “fair” it is. I’m putting this thought out (as a classical liberal, a term that has been bastardized beyond its true meaning)for the right-wing as well as for the left-wing. Divisive politics is the true enemy of the citizens of the West (I’m not ruling out political debate, but rather criticizing the election tactics of self-aggrandizing hacks who never work like the rest of us, and who abuse our liberties, and our political system as badly as any enemy). Any left winger here would be instantly converted by an attack by a “terrorist”, and any right winger would be converted by spending all of their money to defend themselves against the arbitrariness of the state.
One more thing (sorry). I don’t think that we should put all the responsibility upon the Muslim community to “police themselves”. this is the same logic that had Naomi Wolfe state that “All men wear the mask of the beast” when she refers to rape of women. I hated her sexist, hateful ignorance for blaming all men for the crimes of a few, and I bet my fellow travellers on the right did as well. I will not give support to that argument by applying it to other innocents.
Pre-Mature Jack Layton how appropriate. What a dork.
The comments of Naomi Wolfe are ignorant. A man is not, by definition, a rapist.
The difference with Islamism, is that it is an ideology, not a biological individual. Is there such an ideology as ‘men-ness’? No.
As an ideology, it is created by human beings. It’s not a biological construct but a human construct. As such, it is held and maintained by the beliefs of its followers. Islamofascism is an extreme version of Islam, but, it is supported by Islam. Read the Koran. You’ll find the extremism of violence, constant ‘jihad’ against non-Muslims, all there.
Therefore, I think it IS up to the Muslims to reject this perspective of violance and antipathy towards non-Muslims that is indeed part of the Koran, and the use by the extremists, of these writings in the Koran.
It is also up to non-Muslims to reject this agenda of Islam, to reject their attempts to deny equality, to deny democracy, to reject their insistence that we all adhere to or submit to their laws and their ideology.
Once again Jack shows us why the NDP is where it is today.
At least it’s obvious to the rest of us what party supports terrorists!
Mother: Who are those guys with the chains and handcuffs? Are they all Muslims?
Yes, Virginia, they are all Muslims.
The Biggest Elephant
Here’s a no-punches-pulled commentary at the Globe and Mail by Christie Blatchford: Ignoring the biggest elephant in the room. (Hat tip: LGF readers.)
The full article is available only to registered readers, but you can read it even if you aren’t registered by using this link at Google News.
I drove back from yesterday’s news conference at the Islamic Foundation of Toronto in the northeastern part of the city, but honestly, I could have just as easily floated home in the sea of horse manure emanating from the building.
So frequent were the bald reassurances that faith and religion had nothing — nothing, you understand — to do with the alleged homegrown terrorist plot recently busted open by Canadian police and security forces, that for a few minutes afterward, I wondered if perhaps it was a vile lie of the mainstream press or a fiction of my own demented brain that the 17 accused young men are all, well, Muslims.
But no. I have checked. They are all Muslims.
Barely two days after the nighttime raids that saw 15 of the accused arrested (the remaining two, in Kingston, conveniently were already in the joint on gun charges), the great Canadian self-delusion machine was up and running at full throttle.
Why, it’s not those young men — with their three tonnes of ammonium nitrate and all the little doohickeys of the bomb-making trade — who posed the threat. No sir: They, thank you so much, are innocent until proved otherwise and probably innocent and, if convicted, it’s because of the justice system.
It’s those bastard vandals (probably crazed right-wing conservatives, or maybe the Jews) who yesterday morning broke windows at a west-end mosque who stand before us as the greatest danger to Canadian society.
As Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair, who came to the building to offer his assurances that Muslims and Muslim institutions will be protected, said at one point: “Hatred in any form and certainly in its expression in violence and damage to property will not be tolerated.”
Thank God: Windows everywhere in Canada’s largest city are safe, especially windows in mosques. The war on windows will be won, whatever the cost.
Such is the state of ignoring the biggest, fattest elephant in the room in this country that at one point Chief Blair actually bragged — this in answer to a question from the floor — “I would remind you that there was not one single reference made by law enforcement to Muslim or Muslim community” at the big post-arrest news conference on Saturday. via LGF
“I don’t think that we should put all the responsibility upon the Muslim community to “police themselves”.”
I do, Mike. I also put the responsibility upon them to reform Islam as well they should. Why is the neighborhood mosque so often the central meeting place for these foiled and apprehended jihadists when their backgrounds and activities to come light? Name another religion operating at this time in history as enmeshed in terrorism?
Theodore Dalrymple gives a disturbing answer in regard to moderate Muslims:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/rev2006-06-04td.html
Sorry, but instead of whimpering about a broken window(self inflicted?, perhaps)at a mosque versus 3 tonnes of explosives for homicidal use and public backlash, which never physically happens, it is time for the alleged moderate Muslims to take it to the streets. Muslims are ultimately the only ones that can change the direction of the global jihad that has been unleashed under their names. It’s time to take some responsibility.
Don’t cry that you are discriminated against, suspect, and misunderstood when you’ve never alleviated your non-Muslim neighbor’s anxiety by a large principled public denunciation of the terror you’ve put upon them.
ET—give me your definition of Fascism because mine are all dictionary and political science based. I am dying to hear what you think a fascist is. That is if you actually know. All you have revealed so far is that you don’t agree with the usual definitions.
Paul Martin
So you know what party supports terrorists do you? Well, I can tell you who creates terrorists and it isn’t a party on the left. It would by the cowboy party’s. Those gunslingers that settle everything with the bullets, etc. Trouble is they end up not settling anything but getting quagmired ad nauseum while terror increases. Do you suppose their strategy isn’t working. Overwhelming evidence I guess isn’t enough. Maybe when the insurgents are in the Green zone they will come to the obvious conclusion. It is very painful to watch how slowly they learn.
Its all so complicated that you can read what you want into whatever is at the forfront . I try to put everything into the family structure . King and Queen ect. If you simplify the topic and look at it through the dynamics of the family structure it is easy .If we look at things from what is right and wrong , positive vrs negitive , love of a god and fear of what the neighbour might think ( a little judgment ) we would be better off. I think if every one took a look over their shoulder once in a while and swat the shit fly thats in your face we would rid our selfs of some garbage. We need to quite yappin and start scrappin. I know that if people couldnt hide behind paper ( laws) they shut up real fast.We have become nothing more than a nation full of sissies crying about ones rights . When the enemy lands on your door step dont look to this neighbour to save you .The enemy is at the gate , do Canadians care ? Nope .They think its the Americans.
steve d – so, cronyism and fraudulent elections are a dictionary and political science definition of fascism? Sorry, no they aren’t. Neither are any of your other ‘attributes’ which I’ve rejected above. You’ve culled them from one suspect source, which has no validity in either a dictionary or political science studies.
You can check out Wikipedia.
Also, check out Mussolini’s and Gentile’s 1932 definition of ‘what is fascism’. That’s a brief three page article that outlines the attributes of fascism, and guess what, none of them are found in your ‘list of 14′.
Try Robert Paxton’s’The Anatomy of Fascism’, particularly his intro and ‘creating fascist movements’. He has a list (p. 41) that’s pretty clear. Nothing comparable to your 14.
Roger Eatwell’s ‘Fascism: A History’ . The intro and also the last chapter are clarifying.
Popper’s outline, in his “The Open Society and its enemies’, in the section on Hegel, is very good.
What your ‘fallacious 14′ is missing, is the supremacy of the state, understood as an essentialist a priori force of nature, against the individual. You are missing the disappearance of the individual, the disapperance therefore, of the ability to dissent, debate, question.
You are missing the integral notion of struggle and the glorification of the state against the individual, as well as the nation against all others.
You are missing the notion of exclusionary purification.
You are missing the rejection of reason and the elevation of intuition and emotion, particularly, that of the leader.
You are missing the charistmatic leadership, and the requirement for propaganda.
You are missing the mythic element.
Your ’14’ are irrelevant ‘junk’ and I assure you, are in no credible dictionary or political science text.
Regarding Canada as an al Qaeda target, here is our nomination by Osama himself:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2455845.stm
I am still open to evidence that it has nothing to do with Op Apollo or Enduring Freedom, but that “…we are a target because of who we are. And how we live. Our society, our diversity, and our values. Values such as freedom, democracy and the rule of law.” (PMSH, Speech to Recruits, 3 Jun 06)
Rule of law would be a biggie if we really had it. More than a decade of audits on police complaints, child protection issues, health care issues and more show we don’t. What’s more our governments municipal, provincial and federal have all balked at dealing with the results of our audits and putting things right.
agitfact – I don’t see how you can obtain the evidence for either set of causes as proximate causes, i.e., that a terrorist act in Canada is due to our military activity in Afghanistan or elsewhere, versus, that it is an attack against democracy.
Islamofascism is an ideology that rejects democracy, individualism, science, etc, etc. and is attempting to enforce a repressive extremist version of Islamism in countries, either by direct conquering or by indirectly enforcing the ‘host country’ into subservience.
You can read the ideology of Islam as a world ideology and the ideology of subservience in the Koran. That is the basic cause. The reason it is emerging in expression now, is because Islam is in a crisis mode. Islamism is not suitable for a modern industrial economy; it hasn’t modernized; it is rejecting modernization and reform and is attempting to, violently, ‘return’ to its roots.
The ideology of Islam is against democracy and, in its attempt to reject reform, is against democratiziation everywhere. That includes in Afghanistan and Iraq – as well as in all democratic states.
So, for you to focus only on the ‘immediate cause’ or ‘proximate cause’ is, I suggest, an error. You have to consider why Islamism has emerged in its extremist form, over the past decade.
I’m amazed at John Moore on CFRB who was critical of multiculturism , just now. I seldom agree with anything he says. But he mentioned it was a mistake to think we’d try multi and then just wait and hope things all worked out someday. He said Canada needed to stand up for what it is.
At first I thought he was being sarcastic. But he was serious. Good for him.
Also several Muslims took responsibility for the alleged acts. Maybe we are seeing some healthy change.
Dr. Dawg said
“12. Rampant cronyism and corruption
13. Fraudulent elections”
Well, no, I didn’t. Spittle cloud your monitor?
But Steve, although I would have some difficulty with your definition of fascism, ET is just cherry-picking his own version. Mythic elements, for example, might have fuelled Nazism, but where were they in Mussolini’s corporate state? Propaganda? It’s used by every state. Including, if people here can be believed, by the Canadian state under Paul Martin. (But, as we all know, propaganda has now been stopped, and replaced with Truth.)
maz2
Blatchford’s article is more than twice what you posted as LGF truncated the article.
It is well worth reading all of it.
To access it go to google news,search for Ignoring the biggest elephant in the room,click on the version from 14 hours ago, the full article is there at least for the time being.
I encourage all to read it.
TEST
Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the following multiple choice
test. The events are actual cuts from past history. They actually
happened!!!
Do you remember?
-1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by
a. Superman
b. Jay Lenno
c. Harry Potter
d. Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40
1. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by
a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
2. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
3. During the 1980’s a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
4. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
5. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old
American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
6. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver
trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:
a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
7. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
8. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
9. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill’ s women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
10. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to
take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into
the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers.
Thousands of people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
11. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
12. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
Nope, I really don’t see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?
So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics
intent on killing us,
ET,
I’m a little rusty in Aristotelean causality, but I do remember the Law of Identity or Non-Contradiction: “A thing is what it is; it is not what it is not.”
We can discuss mediate and immediate causes without ever reaching a conclusion that would support practical action. What we’d better find is the sufficient cause that would provide adequate explanation and indicate a practical response.
Considering that the only “international terrorism” we had in Canada before 9/11 was directed against other countries (USA, India, for instance,) I think that Osama’s stated view of us is sufficient to indicate the problem and suggest a response. Al Qaeda can be dealt with, but treating every member of Islam as a potential ideological enemy would be a little difficult.