(updated)
via CKOM radio – David Emerson ( Vancouver Kingway) has “crossed the floor” to sit as a Conservative.
Scary Stephen Harper pulls up in a minivan. Heh.
Well, there are a lot of people losing money in the Cabinet Minister pool. No Deputy MInister, either.
CTV has the list of key appointments.
Oh, and yay for our own MP, Carol Skelton!
Oh, and that “what about Belinda, you hypocrites!” meme starting in the comments? As I said at the time (when I was chastized for publishing her cell phone number);
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
However – three wrongs break a tie!
(hey, and at least Emerson is qualified) Coyne has more, including a full list, the “diversity scoreboard” and something I hadn’t realized –
Tories get a two-seat swing in the balance of the House. Standings now are 125-102-29-51-1. So Tories plus NDP equals majority. Andr� Arthur is no longer the swing vote.
oops – Dan Cook emailed to fact check me.
To pass any bills, they need 155. Not to mention they have yet to appoint a Speaker of the House, which I would assume would be one of their own. This would bring the numbers back down to 153.
I fact checked him by pointing out it’s Andrew Coyne who can’t count.
I report, you do the addition.
Now, I”m going to town to do errands. You can yell all you want in the comments till I get back. Get it out of your system. Keep the profanity to a low roar, though, or to Deleteville you will go. (I’m now back and the trolls have been expunged.. And more.)
Further response to comments like this;
Spin away Kate. This is hilarious. Soon your floor crossing posts will come up.
Regular readers will know that when Stronach crossed the floor, that I criticized her roundly for doing so. Now, please be advised dear Liberal readers, that I am in no way impeding or objecting to your criticism of David Emerson for doing the same. Have at ‘im!
Now, back to regular programming.
Dosanjh not happy?
Suck it up Ujal, this is how ***you*** know to do politics.
And would you rather constituents not have a voice in Cabinet for Vancouver and B.C?
Be honest…now come on be honest…better to be *In* than on the benches…or not?
Your answer will be recorded;)
Buffalo Bean
Did it ever occur to you that the people decide wether they want a voice by how they vote, or is that not the meaning of Democracy.
Looks like the kids are running wild while Mommy’s away.
Should I tell?
I think she’ll see the mess on her own when she gets back.
jlc add $200.00 to your cheque.
“clean gvn’t” put in memo field.
ha that’s a joke – crooks are crooks always
Worst than this would be to reward his campaign co-chair with a Ministerial appointment and ensure that he doesn�t have to answer questions in the House.
Especially if that guy runs the notorious Public Works trough.
I have to say I’d really like to see Harper and Emerson come out with an announced by-election or some other way in which his constituents can voice their opinion on the switch. I don’t mind switches, per se, I just think it should be required to have riding approval within a specific time period. Even some sort ot recall process that could be triggered by this type of action to put the ability to force a by-election into the ridings hands. It would have to have a signifigant bar set though to prevent a handful of upset constituents from forcing the majority of voters who were ok with it into an unnecessary election.
As for Fortier, I’ve never had a problem with unelected Cabinet Ministers if the person being brought in has specific skills for the job. By the looks of it Fortier will have a Senate position until the next election when he’ll step down and run as a house candidate.
But I think the biggest news here is that Harper has reconfirmed his goal of an elected Senate and by the sounds of it, wants the process to be in place for the next Federal election. If he manages to get that passed and only appoints Senators like Fortier, essentially temps until elected Senators can take those seats, I think he can still hold his head up high on his pledge to move Canadian politics forward.
Tainted-blood trial begins
TORONTO (CP) – A criminal trial for Dr. Roger Perrault, the man at the centre of the tainted blood scandal, is finally underway. >>> via cnews
Rock? Ex-Liberal Health {Sickness] Minister Allan Rock? Yes, yup. Where is he now?** >>>
CBC News Indepth: Tainted Blood
Health Minister Allan Rock reaffirms there will be no federal compensation for
victims who received tainted blood before 1986 and after 1990. …
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/taintedblood/bloodscandal_timeline.html – 50k –
* Here is Rock, Allan, The Hon. * :
Permanent Mission of Canada to the United Nations :: Ambassador
Ambassador Allan Rock is Canada ‘ s Permanent Representative to the United Nations.
The Ambassador is the voice of Canadians to the General Assembly and the …
http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/canada_un/new_york/about/ambassador-en.asp – 31k – 5 Feb 2006 – >>>
So much whining with so little information.
An ideal situation?? No, but the wailing here is so over the top.
As others have stated, no comparison to the Brison/Stronach situations. I’m not opposed to other “Blue Liberals” crossing over.
Is Mr. Emerson a former leadership candidate??
Presumably, he’ll be facing his constituents in less than 24 months.
Would all you other Conservatives be happier if the government just resigned and let the Liberals back in?
Put me down for a “not happy with the defection”
It did give Harper the opportunity to get some “Big City” representation on Cabinet and also a good guy too.I still do not like it and it would have been more aqcceptable if he had to cross the floor to go in as a back bencher for 6 months before getting a position.If he is the best candidate for the job do you give the country the best or stand on principle?
I know all those with more insight than me will fill the ethernet with all sorts of wisdom.
I would just like to say that for the first time since before pierre I feel again proud to be a Canadian. To watch the torch passed to a younger generation , full of confidence and credentials was a grand moment for my wife and I. We truly hope that this begin the journey to a time when everyone will be responsible for thier actions and behaviour. Good luck mr Harper and Gods spead
Not a criticism of Emerson, just an amusing look at how one’s words in politics can come back and bite you in the ass (from newspaper “24 hours”):
Surprised by his sizeable margin of victory in Vancouver-Kingsway, David Emerson says he’s ready to rattle cages in Ottawa.
At the Golden Swan, a Chinese restaurant on Victoria Drive, supporters chanted his name as Emerson arrived to deliver his victory speech.
“I feel very happy with the results,” said the former cabinet minister. “This is traditionally NDP territory and to win again feels good.”
The riding was expected to be close, but Emerson jumped ahead early and extended his lead on NDP candidate Ian Waddell by more than 4,000 votes.
Emerson added he is going to enjoy keeping tabs on Prime Minister-elected Stephen Harper.
“I’m going to be Stephen Harper’s worst enemy,” he warned. “We’re going to stir the pot and you better believe we are going to make a heck of a lot of noise.”
I see the moonies/lefties are all giggling and smirking, saying that the neo-cons are two-faced when it comes to Emmerson pulling a Belinda. The problem with their glee is they don’t seem to see the number of conservative folk out there (like me) who have written in and said even if the two defections were not exactly the same, they are not happy and feel the voters should get a crack at giving Mr. Emmerson their approval or not.
Cabinet minister from the senate, although rare is not unheard of, if I remember correctly. Personally, I am disappionted that Diane Ablonzy is not in the cabinet at this time but I am pleased the cabinet is smaller.
I can’t help but wonder what the reaction would have been had Emerson offered to cross over, and been rejected – with Conservatives realizing that an independant from Quebec might hold the balance of power in a tight vote in a few months – even a confidence vote – as a result.
I’m also reminded of those who have criticized the party for not being ruthless enough, or having let their “foot off the neck of the Liberals” when they seemed in their death throes. This was one of those moments.
Sure, they’ll take flack from both sides, and they’ll deserve it. Is it the greater or lesser of two evils?
I don’t know yet, and neither does anyone else.
“Cabinet minister from the senate, although rare is not unheard of, if I remember correctly.”
You do. Senator Robert de Cotret served in the Mulroney cabinet.
And, incidentally, there must be a hell of a lot of “strategic voters” in Vancouver-Kingsway today.
“As others have stated, no comparison to the Brison/Stronach situations. I’m not opposed to other “Blue Liberals” crossing over.”
No comparison, my ass. The only difference is that it’s a move to your guys instead of to their guys. The difference between a defector and a convert, eh?
“And, incidentally, there must be a hell of a lot of ‘strategic voters’ in Vancouver-Kingsway today.”
Make that:
“And, incidentally, there must be a hell of a lot of pissed-off ‘strategic voters’ in Vancouver-Kingsway today.”
Yeah, Team Harper! >
http://www.hockeydirt.com/2006/02/harper_announce.html
via bourque
“No comparison, my ass. The only difference is that it’s a move to your guys instead of to their guys. The difference between a defector and a convert, eh?”
Dr. Dawg, there is no comparison. The democratic deficit is alive and well in our new government. I am so glad I voted.
Listen, some people, even Tories, are beginning to make me wonder. Politics are politics, especially Canadian politics. All of these moves are within the rules, therefore, there should be no more discussion.
Sore losers will whine no matter what, but from Conservatives?
Emerson was talked into running by Paul Martin in 2004. He is no die hard partisan, as someone already stated. So what? Harper needs this government to work..it is fragile I may add. I don’t have a problem with this at all, and if we can recruit more Liberals, let’s do it! Emerson has knowledge, and experience. Nothing wrong with that. Again, there’s a difference to switching before a confidence motion, and at the beginning of a new mandate. Liberals should be complimented!
Again, as stated, Winston Churchill crossed the floor twice. TWICE!
As for Fortier, so WHAT, AGAIN!! This is all within the rules of the game. Plain and simple. There have been no reforms yet, and remember, Harper made a promise to Quebecers to include them in government, to give them power. He has kept that promise. Harper can afford to lose votes in Alberta, but NEEDS them in Ontario and Quebec. This is brilliant politics and I applaud Mr. Harper whole-heartedly.
Congratulations, Mr. Prime Minister.
Jim,
Time will tell whether the people who voted for Emerson, because he was a *Liberal* candidate, will be grateful that he changed up.
The cry post-Jan 23rd was that the 3 big cities did not have any Government MPs, let alone Cabinet MPs.
Harper has taken some talent from outside their box, and brought it in to the hall of influence to correct that deficit.
Time will tell if Emerson better serves them sitting as the Minister with a whole lot of influence in decisions do to with Vancouver and B.C.
I do understand the emotions of the moment, after the Stronach walkover, so I am not negating that.
Time will tell whether the voters got more bang for their buck, and they can then toss him or thank him.
BTW, the private member’s Bill C-251 that had to do with how to deal with crossing the floor, did not even get to any final stage for a full vote.
All-party debate on it was pretty telling in how difficult it will be to find a way to bring in legislation on what to do with floor-crossers.
That to me says it all….there is much more to think about than the emotions of the moment…genuine as we know them to be.
CROSSING THE FLOOR IS FRAUD
(but make sure you read my last paragraph).
In the investment business I’m told, when you offer securities for sale you have to present a prospectus. After the order is taken, the broker can’t just switch to another security of his choice without customer permission.
Crossing the floor, should be thought of in this light. It is unjust to the voters (the purchasers in this instance).
It’s bait and switch and is usually illegal, and should especially be illegal in government.
If someone wants to switch parties s/he should be required to go back to the constituency and win a by-election, and should perhaps pay some portion of the cost if unsuccessful.
Oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m a conservative alright, way way way over there on the right just short of anarchy (no, fascism belongs on the far left with the other totalitarian ideology).
Sorry if this is redundant, haven’t had time to read all the comments.
“No comparison, my ass. The only difference is that it’s a move to your guys instead of to their guys. The difference between a defector and a convert, eh?”
Dawg, it’s rare that two separate events in life are the same. In this case, the circumstances of Belinda’s defection were very different from that of Emerson’s. Do you think Miss Nepotism was poached by Martin for her talent and record, as is plausibly the case with Emerson? Magna stock dropped considerably when her dad appointed her Magna boss – the market says she’s a dog.
Not the case with Emerson, who is near universally respected and can speak without sounding vacuous, like Stronach. That’s a fair comment; she’s a horrible speaker. The geographical considerations at play in Emerson’s SPECIFIC case also make it DIFFERENT than Belinda’s case.
Does this mean that Emerson = good and Belinda = bad? No no no. It means that they are different. Not the same. But different. The Liberals had an opportunity to pass anti-turncoat legislation and they did not – they are the bad guys here. Don’t blame Harper for playing by the rules, he didn’t make the rules but he’d be a damned fool not to use the rules to his advantage especially when he is a seat away from a CPC-NDP majority. He’d be Joe Clark.
Defeating The Statists isn’t a pretty job. I think there should be legislation requiring turncoats to run in a by-election, but we don’t live in that imaginary world. Keep the heat on the CPC to pass anti-turncoat legislation and all will be good.
Tribute to Joe Who?’s advice : To Canadian voters’ choice between Martin and Harper.
Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before.
Mae West >>
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mae_west.html
Liberal, Tory, same old story. The only subtle difference being the speed at which they genuflect to the Boyz on Bay St.
Bad shadenfreude: the floor crossing.
Good shadenfreude: Svend “jewel-pocketer” Robinson losing the election despite Hottie Hedy winning.
We anxiously await the correction on those troop motorcycle deaths. Can’t be right.
No Women’s Issue department: EXCELLENT. One of my acid tests. If I were a leftie, tho, I’d be bemoaning the lack of a Status of Men department to redress the overshoot!
To those of you who claim Conservative blogs won’t complain about this one? You’re wrong!
BY-ELECTION.
NOW.
Cabinet ministers from the Senate? Heck, that’s one of the reasons it’s there. Hopefully, Harper will continue to rediscover the uses of the upper chamber and forget this nonsense about an elected Senate. It was a mistake for the Americans too. As for crossing the floor, it’s one of the pieces of grand theatre in the parliamentary system, and I’d hate to see it shut down by a crypto-republican killjoys.
that should be “…by a bunch of crypto-republican killjoys.”
I like your “see through the emotional B.S.” Kate. From my perspective the situation is not ideal, but it has many positives for the Conservatives. Emmerson gives them a cabinet minister with some experience and doesn’t need to go throgh a “learning curve” in his portpholio (as opposed to b.s.). It gives Harper one more cabinet minister who is not likely to “blow” it in the next two years (critical), and it gives one more conservative house vote in parliment. Was the timing great? No, but not as bad as the eve of a confidence vote. Does there need to be new rules pertaining to this sort of thing? Maybe, but they aren’t there now and the voters will soon have their say in the matter. Over all, the man is uniquely qualified to represent the portfolio (unlike B.S.).
I like your “see through the emotional B.S.” Kate. From my perspective the situation is not ideal, but it has many positives for the Conservatives. Emmerson gives them a cabinet minister with some experience in the portfolio and doesn’t need to go through a “learning curve” in his portpholio (as opposed to b.s.). It gives Harper one more cabinet minister who is not likely to “blow” it in the next two years (critical), and it gives one more conservative house vote in parliment. Was the timing great? No, but not as bad as the eve of a confidence vote. Does there need to be new rules pertaining to this sort of thing? Maybe, but they aren’t there now and the voters will soon have their say in the matter. Over all, the man is uniquely qualified to represent the portfolio (unlike B.S.).
YES!!! As I was saying!! See my above post! Harper kept promise #1 – involve Quebec in the federal government (Fortier.) GOD, some Tories are even starting to piss me off.
Bravo Anonalogue! Well put.
As I said,…not ideal,…but hardly worth the “SKY IS FALLING” reaction.
The burden is on Mr. Emerson, not Harper.
Any Conservative who has been shaken to the core over this should stay away from blogs for the next couple of years.
Being a supporter of a party in power may not be a good fit for you.
Any Liberal who thinks they can gloat or crow about this should return their Halo to the rental store. The look just doesn’t suit you. Too phony.
(a bit like Bill Graham talking “being accountable for public expenditures” or “respecting the constitution”)
The irony is so delicious. Those who voted for the Liberal party in Emerson’s riding gave him a mandate to betray them. It’s well known that’s what Liberals do.
Those who voted for the man can feel good Emerson followed his conscience and went over to the right side.
Winners all around.
Blunder #1: Seeking and procuring the defection.
Future Blunder #2: Not holding a byelection to seek voter participation – approval.
Or is voter participation irrelevant?
It may not always be what is best but people vote along party lines and, even if only in some small way, that has to be respected. I would not support my MP if they crossed.
Its a simple smell test: No matter how hard we try to justify it, be honest, how many of us conservatives would support our MP if he/she crossed to another party, regardless of the payback implications (cabinet positions or otherwise)?
Today Harper has expended a lot of moral capital. Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t a large part of the CPC’s campaign based on ‘principled government’ and ‘change’?
You are correct Mike. “Accountability and Ethics”. Not too important now that they have the keys to the car.
I am praying they announce a by-election very soon.
It is not unusual in Canadian governments to appoint unelected people to cabinet to round out regional differences or skills bases. Chretien had both Pettigrew and Dion as unelected members of cabinet. Trudeau had several.
If this was done to provide balanced representation to Canadians I applaud it. Can anyone see any other political motive considering these were touigh decisions to make?
Harper did not support the NDP proposal to have people changing parties go through a by-election. He was very detailed in his comments on this on CBC which have been quoted on several blogs.
None of this is terribly shocking. It’s how the game is played in the big leagues.
On first impression, the optics of the Emerson defection, well they, uh, er,…. sucked. I was really pissed at this whole thing until I read and heard alot more about this.
Then I got to thinking.
Given Emerson’s cabinet portfolio, and previous industry experience he can play the major role in resolving the lumber dispute. And going into these negotiations with the US as a Conservative will not hurt his position at all. He might just be the best person to handle Canada’s position at the table (and he wasn’t going to do that sitting in opposition).
Looking at this thread, there are a lot of CPC voters that are pissed at this decision. Hopefully the future will show us that Harper made a bold and risky decision that truly was in the best interest of Canada. Myself, I’m going to reserve judgement on Harper’s decision on the basis of more than just optics, and only time will tell.
Kinsella’s a bit of hypocrite. Chretien had upwards of 10 floor-crossers in his caucus.
I know Harper had a very difficult job to do in the small minority he was given – and he needed to represent Canada through his cabinet. But, I don’t get it – why David Emerson? Why couldn’t he appoint James Moore?
Or is this a type of coalition that we are seeing?
I just hope Harper doesn’t start that slippery path shown by the Liberals.
With great sadness I say nCanada like the reform movement is dead. Long live pork-barrel politics.
CANADA 1July 1867 to 28 June 2004 RIP
I am astounded. I really expected better. To surrender so much of the moral high ground on the first day is truely amazing. I’ve argued that a Conservative government was nothing to fear; that it had priciples; that it would not do the politically expidient, but would act from principle. I was so wrong.
I suppose I could have accepted a defection from the Liberals; after all this protecting one’s minority is necessary to get something done. But giving up even the semblence of a principle on an elected Senate is too much. Mr. Harper has really discarded his principles there. It’s not as if he didn’t have other good choices from Quebec and from elsewhere. There was plenty of talent. Instead he chose to reward a party insider with a Senate appointment and a cabinet job. What’s next: crown corporation directorships and ambasadorships all around?
I can’t believe it. I just can’t believe how low they’ve fallen, and how fast it happened.
ol hoss — thank you. you made me laugh today.
Do you suppose any of you might consider giving the guy a chance to actually govern, before issuing sweeping conclusions as to what is the right and wrong way to get done what needs to be done?
I’m content to sit back and watch for awhile. I don’t think it’s too much to ask not to second guess decisions that were made after a great deal of deliberation and with an eye to future electoral strategy.
Wayne,
It must be that new car smell.
With no rules governing floor-crossing our only guide is parliamentary tradition. Which means, whether we like it or not, floor-crossing is part of the furniture. So that’s our starting point.
Is there a difference between Stronach and Emerson?
Stronach’s defection was pure betrayal. She became a turncoat in the heat of the battle in return for a few trinkets. The result was the defeat of the nonconfidence motion. She betrayed not only the Conservatives who needed her vote to win the nonconfidence motion, she betrayed all Canadians who have been chomping at the bit for years to get rid of a disfunctional government.
To compare that to Emerson’s floor-crossing is absurd. In terms of betrayal, it’s about as benign as it gets.
Sorry Kate, the same could have been said about Stronach and Brison when they crossed the floor. You never, to my recollection, extended such courtesy to them. Why the change of heart?
As an early Ontario Reformer come/ Alliance come /Conservative, I am with Kate on this issue.
Harper didn’t get us to where we are as a party because he is inept or a crook.
Let’s get down to governing. I am withholding my criticism for the Emerson, Fortier decision and believe that Harper’s logic will pay off in spades in the next election.
I, too, will wait to see. A bit of a worry for us idealists out there but lets face it… it’s politics as usual, not corruption as usual.