(updated)
via CKOM radio – David Emerson ( Vancouver Kingway) has “crossed the floor” to sit as a Conservative.
Scary Stephen Harper pulls up in a minivan. Heh.
Well, there are a lot of people losing money in the Cabinet Minister pool. No Deputy MInister, either.
CTV has the list of key appointments.
Oh, and yay for our own MP, Carol Skelton!
Oh, and that “what about Belinda, you hypocrites!” meme starting in the comments? As I said at the time (when I was chastized for publishing her cell phone number);
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
However – three wrongs break a tie!
(hey, and at least Emerson is qualified) Coyne has more, including a full list, the “diversity scoreboard” and something I hadn’t realized –
Tories get a two-seat swing in the balance of the House. Standings now are 125-102-29-51-1. So Tories plus NDP equals majority. Andr� Arthur is no longer the swing vote.
oops – Dan Cook emailed to fact check me.
To pass any bills, they need 155. Not to mention they have yet to appoint a Speaker of the House, which I would assume would be one of their own. This would bring the numbers back down to 153.
I fact checked him by pointing out it’s Andrew Coyne who can’t count.
I report, you do the addition.
Now, I”m going to town to do errands. You can yell all you want in the comments till I get back. Get it out of your system. Keep the profanity to a low roar, though, or to Deleteville you will go. (I’m now back and the trolls have been expunged.. And more.)
Further response to comments like this;
Spin away Kate. This is hilarious. Soon your floor crossing posts will come up.
Regular readers will know that when Stronach crossed the floor, that I criticized her roundly for doing so. Now, please be advised dear Liberal readers, that I am in no way impeding or objecting to your criticism of David Emerson for doing the same. Have at ‘im!
Now, back to regular programming.
My first reaction upon hearing about Emerson was…”This is massive!” I haven’t read anybody asking, “Hey, what’s best for the country?” I think Emerson is qualified for the job. I can’t imagine anyone in Vancouver being upset with having someone in government plus the Olympics responsibility. It’s a good move.
MJ,
For sure it’s a good move. I’m not a fan of ppl. crossing the floor, though. I’d prefer that they stepped down and were re-elected..
Holy shit.. I’m watching these whack-pot extremist muslims tearing down buildings and crap. What the hell is wrong with these people? Honestly, does anyone in these parts of the world do anything other than just wreck their cities? Jeez..
Wow – all this debate over David Emerson “crossing” the floor. I have another idea regarding this and Stephen Harper alluded to it during his scrum. I believe that Stephen Harper has always believed that politics and government can be run differently and this Emerson thing is just one of those “paradigm shifts”. I never heard him say that Emerson was now a Conservative – what I heard is that he wanted to put partisan politics aside and put someone that he admired and worked hard and that would have the opportunity to give representation to an area that the Conservatives do not represent. It will be interesting to see if Emerson actually states that he is now part of the conservative party. I often have felt that I would support a certain politician if he weren’t part of a party that I didn’t agree with.
So perhaps this opens a new style of government where all views can be expressed around the cabinet table and politicians of every stripe can – and should – be seconded to cabinet so that all views, areas and policies can be represented.
Just my take on the issue.
You’re right Alberta Girl.
Just to place another perspective on this. Do Canucks even know that when a US President appoints cabinet members, it is quite customary to appoint one from the opposing party?
You don’t see the party going ballistic there? And the Americans are supposed to be less civil in politics?
I don’t think soooooo. (except the Demo-Leftists, well Leftists everywhere for that matter)
I see a HUGE difference.In the defections that BS and SB participated in,they were asked (told..) to become Liberal party members. In his Press scrum,PM Harper
said he had not asked Emerson to change party affiliations and asked him to serve for the Benefit of Canada…
Taking Emerson to a cabmin post was a mistake, it does not secure the minority and it has damaged credibility…and that comes from a long time Reformer who is in wait and see mode with this coalition…..so far I see one major compromise to the power at all costs ethic.
Bob & Karl:
get lost, scumbags.
elliot: where did I post saying that I agreed withm Fortier’s appointment? I said you did not have to be elected to be appointed a minister. That’s a fact. Take a remedial reading course why doncha?
“Stephen Harper, who was dismissed less than two years ago as unelectable, was sworn in Monday as the country’s 22nd prime minister and immediately promised that his top priority will be to clean up government.”
I am sure he will get to ‘cleaning up goverment’ as soon as all the patronage appointments are made and all disaffected Libranos/Dippers are rewarded with cabinet posts.
The zombie-like moaning is the sound of hundreds of Emerson apologists struggling to reconcile their hatred of patronage and corruption with the reality of his defection.
The guy was elected as a Liberal _two weeks_ ago. He crosses the floor, and suddenly he’s “doing the right thing for Canada”.
As for this meme that this riding was unwinnable for the Tories, so clearly he’s motivated by selfless motives, have you considered that he’s old, probably doesn’t _want_ to get re-elected, and likely intends to retire before next election with a big fat pension after two terms as a cabinet minister?
Bob and Karl: It seems you have no desire to be taken seriously or have no capacity to offer meaningful debate. People who make comments such as yours identify themselves instantly as being the result of poor breeding and education. The frustrated desperation of your comments effectively concedes the debate. Your surrender is accepted, now off you pop.
Now for the adults:
I, for one, see no problem with crossing the floor and becoming a cabinet minister. This is the system; the rules are the same for all. Furthermore, the current situation does not compare well with Miss Stronach. She sold out on the eve of a question of confidence. At the end of the day the voters in their ridings must decide what they like. For Miss Stronach they approved, for Mr. Emerson: we shall see.
I see nothing wrong with an unelected cabinet minister either. Ministers are not chosen by the electorate. They are chosen by the party in government. If this is objectionable to the public they may express this at the ballot box
As well as cleaning up government, Prime Minister Harper also promised to govern for all Canaidians in all parts of Canada.
Think about that before you blow a gasket.
Alberta Girl, I agree with you. It is possible that we are seeing the beginning of a change in
“how government is done”
CBC said Harper pulled up in a Limousine
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/02/06/harper-ottawa060206.html
SOrry, should have taken screen shot. I complained and it is now changed.
As promised, analysis of media and blog cabinet predictions is in progress. Additions and suggestions welcome. Thanks to Kate for the idea.
There’s a difference between switching sides at the beginning of a mandate (at the Prime Minister’s request) and crossing the night before a confidence vote.
At least Emerson is qualified, and is NOT a useful idiot. Secondly, this cabinet is EXCELLENT at gaining votes in Quebec..the heartland to a majority government.
As a Conservative, I for one am very happy with David Emerson crossing the floor to accept Harper’s offer of a cabinet post.
I have even worked on a Canadian Aliance in that riding (2000).
I greatly enjoyed watching the Liberal riding president on CBC explaining how he heard about it at 8 AM this morning in a phone call 😉
The thing with Emerson is that he is not a long-time Liberal. He was talked into running by PMPM in the 2004 election. He is not a strong partisan, unlike many of the long-time Liberals like Hedy, Anne, etc.
You have to remember that we work under the rules that exist at the moment, not the “ideal” ones we’d like to put in place in the future.
Those of you who want him to resign and hold a by-election should ask if it is fair to put the taxpayers on the hook for another million dollars to re-run an election only two weeks old.
I think that Emerson will make a great addition to the Conservative family.
This was an excellent time to show a change in “how government is done”. Harper dropped the ball – BIG TIME. And the appointment of Fortier smacks of the same old cronyism.
Same sh*t, different coloured flies (Blue this time).
Scott Brison and Belinda S. each made some pretty harsch comments about PMPM. Did Emerson evr make the same type of comments about the cons? I don’t know. I think that’s where a potential difference is. Sb and BS went from kicking PMPM’s ‘you know what’ to kissing it. That was hypocricy. Is Emerson doing the same thing? Anyone know?
Yeah. I agree with most of the people on here: As good as it feels to have pulled the same trick on the libs as they did us, this is NOT what we stand for as conservatives. We should let the party know, in writing, that we expect a by-election within a year or so. Grass roots democracy, not librano tricks; otherwise, we’re just as bad as they are.
well if Winston Churchill can cross the floor twice….
if David Emerson’s crossing allows PMSH the choice of which opposition to request support from, I think that’s good.
remember, the member is voted in and he should have “free choice” to vote for or against things like gay marriage.
and their may be other members to cross… like when the details from the RCMP investigations (we all want to read ’em) become public.
so many sharp sticks in the liberal eyes.!
I would sure like to read Emerson’s memoirs in advance, if only to know where the bodies are buried. oh what tales he may tell…
I’ve met Stockwell Day, I have a very high opinion of him, and I wish him well in his portfolio. With the rest of the world seeming to be looking so unfriendly, with the assault on our senses from the moslem world, bird flu, and who knows what is coming next week, I have hope… and its been so long since I felt good about our government. +15 years.
Lord, I’m already tired of the Harper Government. How long have they been around?
Shawn,
I have already let the party know. Also suspended my membership and donations. If Emerson wants to defect, sit as an Independent until a by-election is called – plain and simple.
Hope for the new government has taken a serious hit – when it could have been so simple to do the right thing.
Any chance that the Reform party is still around? *l*
I can’t spell.
marc58510: I agree, in fact I full-well intent to plagiarize your comment on other blogs.
Raise your Tuborg and
Cheers!
I think some people are on to something here. Why even list party affiliations prior to an election. I like the idea of:
David Emerson _________;
Steven Harper _________;
Jack Layton _________;
Party affiliation to be filled in after election.
Or better yet, they all can be independents and then the real blood sport, I mean coalition building can begin.
By anyone’s measure, there is a clear difference between the Emerson appointment and Belinda Stronach’s crossing the floor. With Stronach, it was a cynical act of bribery by the government with the sole intention of remaining in power.
Emerson, unlike Stronach, has experience and ability (don’t give me that crap about how she ran Magna, her job was president of a 6-person holding company that held the shares in Daddy’s company).
Emerson’s appointment does not markedly alter the balance of power, unless a Liberal becomes Speaker, in which case the NDP have a shot at holding the balance of power.
Lew,
I understand why you’re upset about this, I struggled with it too. However, I would ask you to consider the following:
1. The defection is not a question of survival for the government.
2. He was invited.
3. This does conform to the current rules.
4. None of us will ever agree with everything the party does. However, being a party member allows an additional avenue to comment on what the party does.
5. This is good strategy in a minority government. It now gives the Tories sufficient votes to be able to cut a deal with any of the opposition parties increasing our strength.
It would certainly be interesting if Emerson maintained his Liberal party affiliation and I’d actually find that more palatable. It’s not unprecedented, although in the past it occured under unusual circumstances (wartime) or, obviously, in coalition governments. Likewise parliamentary democracy has plenty of precedent for unelected persons sitting in the cabinet, although it’s been rare in recent history.
“In changing parties, he followed the example of former Conservative MP Belinda Stronach, who crossed the floor last year to become a Liberal cabinet minister.
At that time, Harper said:
“We don’t go out of our way to romance MPs to get them to cross the floor. Liberals will do anything to win.
“We are trying to create a principled party where people act in a principled way, and obviously we’re fairly cautious about encouraging party jumping, because that’s the kind of thing that generates cynicism. ”
It’s deja vu, all over again. Glad to hear the Tories have ‘principles’ – as long as they don’t get in the way in affronting democracy.
Yes, CPC plus NDP members equal a majority!! YAY! Now the CPC child care plan is sure to pass!!
Points taken C.J., but I am not interested in comparing ‘defections’. The situations are different, but that is not the main point.
Emerson was elected as a Liberal. If he does not want to sit as a Liberal, he can resign or sit as an independent. He should not be in Cabinet, nor in the Tory caucus. The Conservatives look like clowns for allowing this. Complete hypocrisy. No other way to spin it, sorry.
Lew,
The more I read the reports about this the more it makes sense. This is a man with solid qualifications, from an area we are not represented in. In the business world this would be good hiring practice.
As far as the rest goes it is between him and his riding. If he misjudged their mood he’s toast. That being said I agree that this could have been handled better.
Perhaps it was seen as a chance to get a little pay back.
On CBC “Your Turn” the comments of Harper on defections:
http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/yourview/your_turn_conservative.html
“Hello, my name is Colleen Belisle and I have a question for Stephen Harper regarding the accountability issue. In the past 18 months, I have noticed a number of MPs crossing the floor after the election. This makes me wonder why I should, as a voter, go and vote when my MP can change parties after the election. Mr. Harper, are there any policies that you plan to enforce after the election regarding this issue? Thank you.
Stephen Harper: My short answer is no. And I understand the voters’ frustration. You can imagine I feel that frustration as much as anyone. I was the victim of a number of the particular incidents that the voter is referring to, that Colleen’s referring to, but the difficulty, Peter � I know that many members of Parliament have put forward various proposals that would restrict the right of MPs to cross the floor, force elections, or whatever. I haven’t seen one yet that convinces me that it would create anything other than a situation where party leaders have even more power over the individual members of Parliament”
Read the whole thing.
It IS hypocritical bullsh*t.
A righteous person should feel no different about this, than B.S…
In order for Mr. Emerson to ever really compare to Ms. Stronich he would have to be dating Hillary Clinton AND leave his wife within minutes of crossing the floor. sarc
It will be interesting to see if Emerson actually states that he is now part of the conservative party.
This is exactly what I am wondering. As I said earlier, nothing obliges Harper to select Ministers from within the elected CPC caucus. As a Blue Grit, Emerson may have seen this as a way to serve in government in a relatively principled manner, in line with his convictions and without outright betraying the intentions of his voters via making the compromises a more socially-loaded file might have mandated.
Dear Jean, Please inform/remind the Canadian publique of your profound insight(s)as to your sagacity in building cabinets, to wit:
>>Bookkeeping proves to be a sensitive business for a politician. When the matter was discussed in Parliament after La Presse disclosed the facts, Premier Chr�tien declared: “This Parliament would be much better off if we had more Gagliano’s.” >>
http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm
>>
Commentary & Comments from Coyne: No bs? Pity. But, werry complex. http://andrewcoyne.com/
does anyone remember when MP Joe Peschisolido crossed to the lieberals, most not. My friend and his wife who voted for him were sure pissed. I would sign a petition to stop floor crossing without a by election.
In October of 2005 there was a debate on NDP MP Stoffer’s private member’s Bill C-251.
I have picked this paragraph out as what could have been part of Emerson’s reasoning to go to the CPC party, ****to serve his consituents.****
The debate on this bill is good reading, for it shows some of the difficulty in changing how to deal with MPs who can/will no longer sit with the party they came with.
It deals with the primary need for an elected person to represent their constituents, **first** and the party second.
Various countries have been wrangling with this issue as well.
http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/chambus/house/debates/134_2005-10-07/han134_1340-E.htm
“By choosing to campaign for a political party, the member implicitly agrees with and shares the foundation and values of that party. If the party changes some of its policies with a new leader, if it changes its thrust politically, ethically, economically, constitutionally or whatever, the elected member still has the same responsibility, which is to put his constituents’ needs above those of the party.”
Lew,
How much were you going to donate? i’m just in the process of writing out a cheque to the CPC and I’d like to make up the difference.
A more interesting question is who will be next? My money’s on Iggy Pop.
Harper’s cabinet
by Romeo St. Martin
[PoliticsWatch updated 11:25 a.m. February 6, 2006]
Many of the new ministers came from Harper’s shadow cabinet, pictured here in July of 2004
The following is the official list of ministers named Monday to Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s cabinet.
Stephen Harper — Prime Minister
Jim Flaherty — Finance Minister
Peter MacKay — Minister of Foreign Affairs and Minister of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency
Marjory LeBreton — Leader of the Government in the Senate
Rob Nicholson — House Leader and Minister responsible for Democratic Reform
David Emerson — Minister of International Trade and Minister for the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver – Whistler Olympics
Lawrence Cannon — Transport, Infrastructure and Communities
Maxime Bernier — Industry
Diane Finley — Human Resources
Gordon O’Connor — Defence Minister
Gary Lunn — Natural Resources
Carol Skelton — Minister of National Revenue and Minister of Western Economic Diversification
Monte Solberg — Immigration Minister
Jim Prentice — Indian Affairs
Vic Toews — Justice Minister
Stockwell Day — Public Safety
Michael Fortier — Public Works
Tony Clement — Minister of Health and Minister for the Federal Economic Development Initiative for Northern Ontario
Jean Pierre Blackburn — Minister of Labour and Minister of the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec
John Baird — Treasury Board
Greg Thompson — Veterans Affairs
Bev Oda — Heritage and Status of Women
Chuck Strahl — Agriculture
Josee Verner — International Cooperation
Rona Ambrose — Environment
Loyola Hearn — Fisheries and Oceans
Michael Chong — President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and Minister for Sport
> ElectionWatch 2006
Objectively speaking, it’s just plain crass when an industrialist minister crosses the floor to rescue a party going down for non-confidence.
It would seem more crass if the voting public knew the motive was not simply to gain a ministry position, but to control the Human resources sector.
There, an industrialist can grease the skids under the feet of thousands of Magna employees so the majority are re-classified to full time, part time status. Few if any benefits and no pensions to worry about.
Belinda’s advantage: Some people think she’s not too swift. Caution!
Naturally, if an experienced and thoughtful Liberal, like Emerson, wanted to cross the floor to the Conservatives, well, that would be class and not crass at all, Objectively speaking, that is. TG
Wow first batter up and he fans on the first three pitches.
-Lets see its outrageous for a CPC MP to cross the floor for a cabinet position but visa versa is OK! Strike One
At least David Emerson was elected by some one for something. Which brings me around to strike two. Cabinet post for an unelected person.
To boot you decide that if this unelected person is going to sit in Cabinet you will appoint him to the Senate, even though you have campaigned to have the Senate an Elected body. Strike Three.
All before the ink on the signatures was still a bit tacky. No pun intended.
Can you say deja vu all over again.
Emerson is a former hockey goon and cool calculating business leader. He’s probably well suited for his cabinet posting. He is a typical non-idealistic pragmatist equally at home with socialist and or market principles. Dr. Milton Friedman stated over thirty years ago that businessmen and academics were the greatest threats to Capitalism. Academics, because they are overwhelmingly socialist and businessmen because they are overwhelming comfortable with cozy unprincipled relations with governments.
In addition to the old saying that “we get the government that we deserve”, there’s the (slightly adapted) saying that: “idealism is inversley related to political success”.
The point of this comment is that, as distasteful as Emerson’s defection is, it’s no more repugnant than the ideological whoring that the CPC has performed to attain office.
Looks like Liberal Lite.
If the people in Emerson’s constituency voted for the party (Liberal), they voted for a continuation of the lies.
If they voted for the man, they can be happy he’s in cabinet.
Whichever way Emerson’s constituency voted, they got what they wanted.
What’s the problem?
This is all over the radio here in Vancouver. Ujal Dosanjh was on CKNW and was not very happy (though if I recall he was NDP at one time). I have mixed feelings. I don’t like what DE did, but I think Vancouver gets someone good to get the 2010 olympics up and running. As someone said previously, let his constituents toss him next election if they are not happy. OK, next topic…
jlc,
It was going to be $100/month to start, if that was within the ‘limits’. Now, after being being played for a fool, I will donate to a charity instead. I can’t believe how stupid I was to actually believe Harper wanted to change things. At least I don’t live in Vancouver-Kingsway.
You got that right Jim – only day one and:
There is no joy in Toryville today,
As the mighty Stephen Harper has struck out.
And he couln’t even foul a single pitch off either…:(
Lew no foul balls just a foul smelll. lol