Open Thread

Political Animal 136 Comments

I’m busy for a while this morning – so I’ll open this thread for comments, reader tips and day after election discussion.
Update: Jeremy Harrison is on radio right now over the results in the northern riding of Desnethe – Missinippi – Churchill River
– He was ahead by 200 votes until the last ballot box came in and lo and behold – it had 300 votes for the LIberals. That poll that put Liberal candidate over the top did not came in until 3 hours after the polls had closed
– some reserves had over 100% turnout
– there was campaign literature in the polling stations, and polling booths
– Liberal threats to aboriginal voters that they would not recieve cheques
There is going to be an official request for an investigation.
more: Advance Poll irregularities: poll clerks who refused to allow secret votes, who accompanied voters into the booths.
Footnote: I heard a report last night that the NDP brought a busload of students into a rural poll in Vanscoy and had them all signed in to vote.
Request: Can someone forward the poll results from Desnethe – Missinippi – Churchill River including (a) the number and (b) the sequences of which polls were tabulated first and how the final poll broke so dramatically from a pattern that had remained fairly consistant all evening, perhaps we can shed more light on this.

136 Replies to “Open Thread”

  1. Paul Martin WAS a maggot feeding on the fears of the Canadian voters..
    This was SUPPOSED to be an election based on ideas…
    So much for Martin showing integrity…
    Paul Martin … You have been a boil on our backside…
    And YOU HAVE BEEN LANCED!

  3. A note regarding native voting to add to your comments kate. I know that the local reservation band coucils pay band members to vote. And they ain’t voting Conservative.

  6. There is enough corruption and scandal in the Liberal party to bury them for a long time. So why are they still very much alive and kicking.
    Forget the obvious popular reasons and focus on the ‘nut’. Conservatism is a dying ideology that propagates bovinity. Like cattle, conservatives follow each other around in a kind of circular logic.
    Liberalism free of corruption is the future and the good people of Canada know it.

  7. No worries NL, anytime! Glad to see you took the time, and made the effort to learn, digest, and form your own beliefs and opinions.
    I think this minority scenario is a good thing. In reality, in the beginning all many of us hoped for was a chance, a chance to show the scared huddled masses what the grassroots has been trying to tell them for yrs…. that change IS possible, that not ALL politicians are crooks, and that there is hope… if only someone could walk thru the liberal minefield of subterfuge,misinformation,spin,fearmongering etc.
    Had a tear in my eye last night during Ha… PM Harper’s speech, when he said “… the west is in!” I’m sure back east eyes snapped open, and drinks were spewed! LMFARO oh the image!The long time members have come a long way since the Reform days. Working and keeping the faith. I think a big thanks is in order to Peter McKay as well for doing what he did, breaking the strangle-hold on the old Tory party. Without the strategy of these 2, we’d not be enjoying a new era for our country. Once again I can stand and proudly say “I AM CANADIAN!”

  9. The voter’s have spoken, let’s now start the road to a stronger government, you must remember that years of liberal deceit had created an uncertainy with the voter as to our PM’s reputation, win at all cost is there motto. We have embarked on a new path to build a strong Canada & many a new PM has started this way. Let’s show Canadian’s that he is strong & proud, ready to lead us even further & will win the trust of Canadian’s. Lets not be critical as to who won & loss, we are not like the smug party that we finaly removed from office, we are better than that. As Prime Minister Harper said now let’s get on with the task ahead cleaning up government & building a strong Canada.

  10. Our new government is an answer to prayer and many of us are thankful. Two areas we can expect improvement for sure are in foreign affairs, especially our relationship with the US, and in the Supreme Court, and why not pray for some more vacancies on said court. “When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked bear rule, the people mourn.”

  11. With all this shit going on it’s starting to look like a 3rd world election. I mean…what the phuck is going on between the LIEBRALS and the NDIPS….there has to be some accountability for thses things…..geesshhhh.

  12. t is interesting that the Liberals dominate in Toronto and do well in Vancouver–43.7 and 37.5 percent foreign-born population (2001 census, even higher now).
    http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/products/analytic/companion/etoimm/tables/subprovs/fbpro.cfm
    Monteal is a special case.
    What is interesting is the situation in the next three largest metropolitan areas, all close to a population of one million: Ottawa, Calgary and Edmonton. The Liberal won only two seats in Ottawa, in the urban core (the NDP won the other core seat); the Conservatives won all the suburban ridings. In Calgary and Edmonton the Conservatives won all the seats. They also won four of six in Quebec City.
    Surely this is an urban triumph for the Tories, but I do not think one will find any such description of the result in the media. One wonders why.
    Another interesting fact: the foreign-born population of these three cities is, respectively, 17.7, 20.9, and 17.8 percent (curiously the percentage for Canada as a whole is 18.4–almost the same).
    So the urban areas where the Liberals predominate are those where the foreign-born population is twice, or well over twice, the national average. Exceptionally atypical places. And Toronto and Vancouver (plus Montreal) will become only more atypical since some three-quarters of all immigrants settle in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal.
    http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/products/analytic/companion/etoimm/canada.cfm#three_largest_urban_centres
    So in fact there are three Canadas: Toronto and Vanouver, cities vastly different in their ethnic makeup from the rest of the Rest of Canada: the (anglo) Rest of Canada, and Quebec.
    This ever-increasing diifference within RoC between the two great metropolises and all its other parts cannot be a Good Thing. Amongst other things the national media in Toronto (John Ibbitson of the Globe is the supreme exemplar) are simply unaware that they live in a very odd city that has ever less in common with the country as a whole–a situation that severely distorts media attitudes and coverage.
    In addition, our immigration policy promotes family re-unification of the broadest possible sort. This means multitudes more of people ill-suited on the whole to add productively to the economy (let’s face it, many end up on welfare) joining their relatives in the metros each year. This will only exacerbate the division of the country and I doubt the Conservatives will have the courage in a minority parliament to do anything about it.
    Mark
    Ottawa

  13. My predictions for the near future-
    First, the Liberals are desperately broke… that’s not fiction, it’s fact. They are going to need a minimum of 2 years to rebuild their coffers to fight another election.
    Second, they need to pick a new leader, and thats going to take at least 6 months to get to. Even after thats done, the new leader is going to need a minimum of 12 months to consolidate his position in what can only be called a divided party.
    Third, the first dumb bunny party to set off an election before mid 2007 will be absolutely crucified by the voters… that is across the spectrum and applies to all parties equally.
    I think you should anticipate several things happening in the near future.
    First, you’ll see the accountability act slammed through. Harper wants a quick victory and that is the easiest one to grab. That package will most definately include fixed elections dates. This of course excludes a non-confidence vote.
    Second, he’s going to have to table a budget, and this is going to be tricker… I’m not even going to guess at this one, other than to say it’s probably going to be good news for Canadians, as he’s going to have to comprimise… If I had to guess, I’d say we’ll see the child tax credit, GST, and to be warm and fuzzy to the Liberals, he’ll have to keep the personal exemption increase.
    Third, he’ll begin the process of revamping the equalization formula, especially in light of his commitments to the french.
    I suspect that somewhere in there, sooner than later so as to take advantage of the Liberals weakness as they reorganize, he’ll trash the gun registry and implement some sort of new justice platform, in conjunction with the NDP, and the Liberals will support it.
    He’ll do all this very quickly as well, because he’s only going to get maybe 12 months free ride from the Liberals, and then they will begin to show strength as an opposition again.
    That’s my forecast… bets anyone? I hit every major city once a year, and I put a time limit on this of June 2007, which is when I expect Harper to fall. Unfortunately, he will have fixed election dates, so it will be the Libs who do the non-confidence thing, but if it happens before June of 2007, I’ll buy the beers… unless your like Kate, and live in the middle of the desert, in which case you’ll have to come to Saskatoon to collect.
    email is themacdonells@shaw.ca, if your taking the bet, email me.

  14. Tom:I do hope Mr. Harper cleans house, but he’ll have to tread lightly, Liberals are thin skinned and squeak a lot.
    LMAO!! good one Tom! *2 thumbs*

  15. I’m a Conservative…Moooooooooooooo.
    At least my shit comes out of my ass, not my mouth, as it tends to with lieberals.

  16. Just heard on John Gormley (CJME Regina) that there are some alleged irregularities in the northern riding of Desneth-Missinippi-Churchill River which the Liberals pulled out of the fire
    after trailing by 200 votes with ONE POLL left to count!!
    Seems there was 100% or higher turnout on some of the reservations in the riding!!!
    Hmm….Liberals at it again???…Stay tuned.

  17. at it again indeed! Heard from both sides of the native vote. They are as divided as anyone else is. All depends on which side is talking as to the fear-factor. Wonder how many other ridings slipped by the controllers. Hmmmm…
    Thanks for the update Kate. How’s the head… should we tread softly as well? 😉

  18. Dr.Wright
    My apologise’s. I stand corrected. I forgot about the Chuchill riding. I used to live and work in Thompson and like 13 years of Liberal domination, those are also bad memmories.
    As to the ballot count in some northern communities, with over 100% turn out, now, thats “SCARY”. Be interesting to see what comes of that.

  20. Question, Why does a conservative like a bovine have 3 stomachs?
    Answer, It takes that many to digest party ideology.
    I hope PMSH has strings on his mittens. It gets awfully cold in Ottawa.

  21. As I wrote over on Reg’s excellent blog regarding the fear To. seems to have for Harper:
    I know you’re not supposed to respond directly to your critics, but I wonder if an NDP “quest-in-jest” style online campaign might have worked: “Find the hidden agenda… If you can find anywhere in our campaign literature, website, or platform where it says we will ban gay marriage and/or abortion, you win a free….”

  22. I guess I can only speak for my riding (West Van), but the real reason the Libs grabbed a couple seats from the Tories is very bad candidate selection.
    The Tories lost a seat held for a longtime by John Reynolds. Picking an anti-SSM, anti-abortion candidate in this affluent but liberal riding was pure idiocy.
    Plus the Lib candidate is a very popular, well-known local guy, very pro-business but moderate on social issues. I would have voted for him if he wasn’t running for the RED MAFIA$
    I don’t what anyone says, sometimes appointing a candidate is preferable to the stacking of nomination meetings by one-issue ‘party members’.
    EPW

  23. Let there be no doubt that we have won. Not by as much as we wanted to, but we are in power. Think of it as a probationary period in a new job.
    In the mean time we have the advantage of being able to go through the books and, more importantly, set the agenda. There is no need to get upset or panic. Just stick to the programme and all will be fine.
    Don’t forget we are the ONLY national party now. PEI is not a concern. It’s like not having a seat in Halifax. Sure, you’d like a seat in Halifax, but failure to do so hardly heralds the arrival of the four horsemen.
    We are now starting a new campaign; I expect this one will be at least 24 months long. I doubt the Liberals could fill their war chest in much less than that.
    The Conservative message during this time will be unopposed (aside from the MSM, who will lack potency like the other arms of the Liberal party during the reconstruction). In this period I expect that many will change their tune. People will respond well to the core message of pride, self-reliance, and a strong country with real influence. Our repositioning on the international stage will be well received among the electorate. People think other countries should listen to Canada. A more powerful military, aggressive foreign policy, and personally strong PM will do the trick.
    The next one is ours to lose. We have all the advantages one could reasonably expect (without stuffing ballot boxes).
    Consider this a government of “national unity.” We are in a transitional phase; if we stay the course the next election will see the completion of this process and a Tory majority.

  24. Sure – he may not be on our side and he fights a bit dirty. However, one thing you can say about Martin is that he accepts his loss fairly and respects democracy.

  29. 36%= 18 months.
    I wonder how much that Artic Navy base is going to cost. It’ll be Lord Stevie’s Gun Registry Database.
    And in 18 months, what do the neo-cons, once known as CRAP , run on, considering the gomery report will be very very old news…talk about fear mongering…
    36%= 18 months.

  30. So, the Conservatives defeat the Liberals in a severely tense five-week campaign and who does Saskatchewan NDP Premier Lorne Calvert speak about first in his first statements to his province?
    He congratulates Jack Layton on his gains in the house and expresses his disappointment that his province did not elect one NDP candidate.
    And we wonder why this province has become irrelevant in both Ottawa and in corporate and industrial circles.
    Saskatchewan has all the resources and ability to be a second Alberta in Canada. Instead, Calvert would rather duplicate the economic policy of an island of seals located just north of the Arctic Circle. He’s partisan and socialist to the end and cares less about us than he does about power. He’s a freakin’ idealogue that needs to be cut off at the knees with an annihilation in a possible 2007 Provincial Election.
    Will that happen? Probably not. This labour union-ran Western outpost has no vision but the status-quo. I’m getting sick of it.
    Frustrated in the Gap!

  31. It speaks volumes about the tolerance of the left, when Jack Layton thanks PM for all his service to the country, loud cheers from the audience, same for thanking GD, boos rain from the rafters when he congratulates PM Harper. Fast forward to Calgary where the extreme right wing conservatives cheer as PM Harper thanks all the leaders for there work. Group hug.
    Seen at a polling station in Saskatoon: The ballot box was covered by an old copy of Time magazine with a picture of G.W. Bush on the cover, caption questioning the Iraq war. Nice work elections canada.

  32. I was pretty depressed when I went to bed last night, as no matter how well the CPC battle was waged, the liberal dragon still managed to lift its head. It’s all but up on all fours, crawling about and wreaking havoc, today, or so I thought.
    The Conservatives have come a long way since retaining only TWO seats in 1993, when they were crucified for their policies, leadership and arrogance. Why is it when we have the same formula only 13 years later, the People (specifically the GTA) cannot rouse themselves and do likewise to the liberals? Perhaps it’s the increasing pressure of political correctness, insofar as you just can’t debate the bigger issues without finding yourself marginalized and branded as a “homophobe”, “racist”, or “neo-con”. Once, Canada had a society that tolerated opposing views and encouraged the debate of same; I’m not so sure this society still exists.
    Today I’m a bit happier, glad to say. Yeah, we’ve not crashed through the system to make huge policy and social changes overnight, much to my disappointment. But Canadians, it seems, aren’t quite ready for that. The smaller CPC victory IS the thin end of the wedge, however, and if properly used, many good things may precipitate out of it. My God: we’ve the first Conservative party in power in 13 years, and the first non-Quebec PM since, who, Diefenbaker, maybe? Even diehard CPC voters have to see this glass as being at least half-full.
    I’d expect Harper to start working on the more challenging (but not MOST challenging) items of his agenda, so as to push things through without fear of a vote of nonconfidence.
    It’s important for him to be seen as keeping his promises and delivering legislation to help Canadians long before the next election call. Mandatory minimum sentences must be implemented to combat gun violence in Toronto, as well as the lowering of the age of adult sentencing to “youths”. Of course, the GST reduction is a no-brainer and everyone of all political stripes will be happy to see it, and no – repeat, NO – party would be loony enough to veto it and trigger any vote of nonconfidence.
    So onward we must go, one successful small step after another, towards the next election call. Success should encourage further success; it certainly does in the “real world”.
    Frankly, many people are in a flutter about a free vote on SSM; this could be done next month for all the objections it will cause. That won’t topple the government, and if it’s a no-go, it’s off the board. Of course, the SSM debate must be placed in terms of priority: I’d expect this to surface at least after a year’s time, as the CPC can’t show their immediate priority in office is to debate this issue. That’d be a real blow to Harper’s credibility.
    There are soooo many Canadians who’ve never seen anything BUT a liberal government, who were likely frightened into voting grit at the 11th hour. The CPC need to work as hard as they can to show that Canadians can benefit from another form of government other than liberal, and that the “scary, hidden agenda” monikers were just liberal fear mongering, if not outright lies.
    Yeah, I’m pretty disappointed that my fellow Ontarions decided to drink the red kool-aid late last night, but in this horse race, you take what you get & run with it. And to those in Alberta who are screaming for separation in response to the (albeit disheartening) Ontario vote: calm your asses down. In Stephen Harper’s own words, “The West is IN”. I agree you’ve received the shaft at the hands of the liberals, and are due plenty of respect. I have faith that our new PM will open the doors wider to you than you’ve ever seen these last 13 years, so… be patient a little longer. The CPC have come a huge way in the last 2 years, yes? Let’s give them the chance to show what they’re able to do.
    Now it’s up to the CPC to start delivering and acting as though they’re under the microscope, because they most certainly are. And the more vocal right-wing elements better get hold of their collective mouth, because any hardline soundbytes will be quoted verbatim or replayed in the next election campaign… guaranteed.
    TOPICAL THOUGHT: Should Harper & the CPC instruct Gomery/Fraser to revisit the Adscam inquiry & completely blow the lid off Earnscliffe and any other forbidden nooks and crannies? Discuss.
    mhb23re
    (email is above username at Google webmail service)

  33. Well a day of mixed emotion. There is a breath of fresh air in the country. On the positive we will have a government with representation in every region of the country, 10 seats in Quebec, all the seats in Alberta. Other than that an entirely underwhelming show. I can’t believe that anyone is really pleased with the result. With the Liberals in disarray, fighting amongst themselves, a completely ineffective campaign, mired in scandal, and the Conservatives barely manage to limp into the formation of a very weak government. The hope is that Harper has the opportunity to demonstrate to the Canadian people that he isn’t really Scary Monster II. I believe that he really is a decent guy and that Canadians will be pleasantly surprised. Lets hope so.

  34. Here is an idea for the minority Conservative government. Together with the Bloc, redistribute all the provincial consitutional powers back to the provinces, i.e. health, housing, child care, education, and all other social issues etc.. This could get rid of any need for the Bloc and would make the NDP irrelevant on a national level and we could get back to a two party system and eliminate this “minority” insanity. Besides, I think it would be great for Confederation.
    We can kick out a provincial government if they do not meet the social needs at the provincial level. We do not need a federal policeman to make sure the provinces protect health care and child care.
    Henry

  35. What will determine how long this government will last will be how good of a PM Stephen Harper is. There are enough things that he promised to do that are popular, as well as some (generally) good ideas generated by the Liberals/NDP/Bloc that he should be able to get enough support to pass legislation.
    Plan to resolve the fiscal imbalance over 4 years; add in an EI change to reduce the cost and increase the payout (we have a massive EI surplus) over 4 years; increase the minimum required income to pay tax over 4 years; and cut the GST. With all of these needing to be passed in the budget, you effectively make it so that you can not be defeated on a confidence vote for your entire term. No other issues are matters of confidence, thus you don’t have to worry too much about gaining support.

  36. Finally! We’re in! Not only did they lose to Stephen Harper, but apparently Brian Mulroney as well. I wonder who’s had the last laugh now? I’m sure Chretien ain’t losing sleep over it either.
    But seriously, the Liberals will have no option but to play nice for a while. They’re in no condition to be dickheads, or reorganize the ratpack. Furthermore, even if they elect a new leader, the first person to try and go to the polls again, regardless of stripes, will be crucified. It’s time for the accountability act. It’s time for tax cuts. It’s time to cut the GST. It’s time for $1200/yr. It’s time to cancel the gun registry. It’s time to clean government. And it’s time to let the Auditor General loose on the books. Oh boy, are they in for it.
    Congrats, Prime Minister Harper!

  37. Father da Souza did a nice hatchet job on Dithers in today’s NP. I too, feel somewhat deflated by the numbers;but one thing that stood out throughout this disgusting election was that people constantly referred to the Libs/Tories platforms being indistinguishable. The Libs will look like fools if they suddenly recant on say crime; patient wait guarantees; the Bloc and NDP will go for the ethics package, and look for Broadbent to be the new Ethics Commissioner. Harper is no fool. And when he brings down his first budget, expect it to look a lot like the Libs’ economic platform with a Tory touch. Masterful campaign, but talking to my mom in T.O. today, she said there is more disgust at how quickly Torontonians were to forget the boxing day shooting and elected the same bunch of rogues whose policies were responsible for Toronto’s year from hell. And she USED to be a Liberal.

  38. Kate, the Churchill River riding is the one I grew up in. My parents still live there, and it always seems to be a race-based vote. A large aboriginal population will vote Liberal. There is so much racial tension in that part of Saskatchewan, it is scary. Anyone who is not Aboriginal seems to get ignored by the politicians because obviously the numbers would skew to towards whomever the natives are supporting, if they can get their vote out.
    I am so glad I live far far away from this mess, in B.C. I’m just sad that my parents are still there. As they are part of the “rest

  39. I just filled out my card for automatic monthly political donations to the Conservative Party. We need to replenish our war chest ASAP as this will not only help in the next election but will prove a deterrent to the Liberals and offer us more clout in negotiations.

  40. Anyways, to finish my thought: I doubt Merasty’s “victory” in Churchill River will be overturned. Don’t you know it’s politically incorrect to challenge anything the natives do?

  41. Well, looking at the poll-by-poll results from the last election:
    http://www.elections.ca/scripts/OVR2004/23/4991.html
    It would, I daresay, be rather suspicious for the Liberals to make up more than three hundred votes in a single poll. I assume it was at one of the Reservation polls.
    That’s the same way that the 2002 Senate Election was stolen from John Thune.
    There’s no way in hell that we should let this one go.

  42. Is there any possibility we can persuade Toronto to separate from Canada and form their own city-state,ie Singapore, (only left wing)?
    One bloody city has once again dictated the Government to all of Canada. Stephen Harper should have told Kevin Newman that he intended to open free abortion clinics, and SSM chapels all throughout Ontario, as soon as he was elected. Might have got him 4 or 5 seats in TO.
    The Liberals will be back, big time, as soon as Desmarais and friends decide who they want to lead. The Party debt is small change to the Liberal backers. One blogger suggested driving a stake through the Liberals’ heart while they’re down. Good idea. They won’t be down long. Mr.Harper, start an independant inquiry into Liberal crimes ASAP. Appoint a new RCMP commissioner, and Auditor General, and turn them loose with search warrants. Find a judge who isn’t beholden to the Liberals, even if you have to go outside the Country. Root out the corruption now, or it’ll be back to the same old BS. The Liberals have survived these voter aberrations before, and they’ll be back in power all too soon if you don’t finish them off now. Congratulations to Stephen Harper, you were the only PM candidate that showed any dignity.

  44. I disagree. Once Harper is in power, people will realize just how great a leader he will be.
    What the heck are Liberals going to run on? No scary monster?? That means a TORY MAJORITY!

  47. “…Electing Belinda Stronach speaks loudly of the mind set in Ontario……it remains true, probably now more than ever, that you’re known by the company you keep…”
    Belinda’s father gets boot from Wal-Mart
    Jan 21, 2006
    “…shaking hands with the public, introducing himself and encouraging people to vote for Ms Stronach. The Wal-Mart endeavour was short-lived, however, when a Wal-Mart official approached the auto parts magnate and told him he was not allowed to canvass in the store…”
    http://tinyurl.com/9z6nj

  49. saskfishtales…
    Hang in there.the winds of change are beginning to howl in Saskatchewan.Everyone is starting to be sick over the resource rich nature of the Province and the do-nothing NDP government that sits watching the world go by and issuing more welfare cheques.
    It will be interesting to see if the Stephen Harper government drags their feet a little bit on equalization for Saskatchewan so as not to make Lorne Calvert a hero just in time for the next election.
    Calvert won’t have any success with scare tactics over health care and Crown Corps the way he did last election.
    The NDP is going down in flames in 2007!!

  50. EVEN IN DEFEAT, I BELIEVE THE LIBERALS CHEATED CAUSING THE CONSERVATIVES TO LOSE A SEAT IN SASKATCHEWAN
    Liberals probably cheated in other ridings too and not just in Edmonton Centre where the margin was so great that Anne McLellan had to concede anyway, and you fair-minded conservative folk are too damn (sorry to say this and take it in the sense that it is meant) dumb as a post to see it.
    And then of course, there’s still…
    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/003425.html
    http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/cover012106.htm
    http://www.lostbudgie.blogspot.com/2006/01/canada-election-day-stay-vigilant.html
    http://www.elections.ca/content.asp?section=med&document=jan2206&dir=pre&lang=e&textonly=false
    http://www.conservative.ca/EN/1091/40086
    http://www.andrewcoyne.com/2006/01/please-stand-by.php#comments

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