“Attempting to mediate relations between free people and Islam will not work. Islam either has to get on board with the whole freedom of speech thing or it cannot participate in pluralistic western democracies. It’s as simple as that.” – Mark Steyn on Charlie Hebdo.
The muslim world is no more threatened by ‘Mo Cartoonists’ than Chrisitanity is threatened by “P*ss Christ artists”.
The BIG GUY can take care of himself and doesn’t really need assistance in dispatching people into the hereafter. What kind of cheap facsimile ‘god’ needs protecting from lowly cartoonists?
Thief Struck by Lightning During Police Chase After Robbing a Church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40mrIA_R4is
Hannity Spars with Radical Imam: ‘You Believe in Islamic Fascism’
http://nation.foxnews.com/2015/01/07/hannity-spars-radical-imam-you-believe-islamic-fascism
Anjem Choudary gives Joseph Go*bbels a run for the propaganda of the century.
My Sharia – My Sharona song parody
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tXrIGT4hMI
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group ‘True North’
The left will not be satisfied until police officers arrest more whites who have not committed any crimes and until police officers arrest less blacks who have committed crimes.
And I guess it will have to be – more or less – the same with Islam; the left will not be happy until we tolerate more terror attacks and slowly all convert to Islam.
You know because, leftism is tolerance and equality…
Steyn also said yesterday “I see all these teary candlelit vigils and everyone suddenly claiming to be for freedom of speech. I think a consequence of this is a lot of people will retreat even further into self-censorship.”
Take note EBD. Steyn knows what he is talking about.
A recent commenter here said…
Radical islam says, ‘submit or we will kill you’.
Moderate islam says, ‘submit or face the radicals’.
Add that to what Mr Steyn said, and you have the entire problem in a nutshell.
It’s been a day. Shouldn’t we be preparing for a potential Muslim backlash? Who wants to sit next to a raghead on a bus?
The NYT/George Packer take, for what it’s worth – though he states the obvious IMHO:
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/blame-for-charlie-hebdo-murders
And, if it’s obvious to everyone these Islamist thugs, whatever their label (IS, AQ, lone wolf, self-radicalized and other irrelevant distinctions), including practicing Muslims, why does it continue, apparently right under their noses? Packer provides a hint – while many Muslims would not carry out violence in these circumstances, they at least countenance, condone or “understand” it.
The no fault argument/blame the free world is total BS again IMHO, the Islamic communities are better positioned to deal with these thugs, here and elsewhere, than any Western intelligence, law enforcement or military agencies. Events seem to indicate they are not doing enough; hopefully, that will change somewhat if their signals now are valid and not cover to gain time. Change it must, because jihadism is incompatible with pluralistic society and thus freedom and thus prosperity.
I’m not optimistic about that because violent and intolerant jihadism is part of the DNA of Islam, particularly the fascist ideology of Islamism, and won’t be easily excised, without a massive “reformation” of that religion.
“while many Muslims would not carry out violence in these circumstances, they at least countenance, condone or “understand” it.”
Let me help non-Muslims to “understand” it too.
It’s called Jihad and it is a Pillar of their Religion.
Don’t expect them to speak out against a Pillar of their Religion just to mollify Infidels whom their *prophet* told them to kill and enslave just as he himself did.
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/01/07/nigel-farage-promoting-multiculturalism-biggest-mistake-europe-has-made/
Nigel’s take…
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group ‘True North’
Angela Merkel said the same thing last fall, although I have no link.
Speaking of Steyn. I wonder if Mike Mann “Is Charlie”? I wonder if he sees what side of this (speech) debate he is on and whom he is in bed with.
JE
2 things shamrock, every human lives in a us and them world, us being the group some one identifies with, and them is every one else, Islam is no different, that is basic behavioral psychology 101. And ppl within that group tend to defend it first and fore most, we see that sort of reaction in here all the time, it’s human nature.
Secondly, it’s the politician, who are charged with good governance who fail to perform their tasks that are largely at fault. But the “voters” are at fault for allowing this, by electing idiots to office. Back in 2000, Bush wasn’t a good choice, he wasn’t as bad as Algorebullshit. Bush carries some very damaging “family” baggage that one cares to dig up, so they get away with it. It’s not the man behind the curtain, it’s the gang behind the curtain.
No the “Islamic communities” are the worst positioned to deal with these people. And, what’s more, why are there “Islamic communities” in the West? It’s called invasion.
Ken (Kulak) …
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1321277/Angela-Merkel-Multiculturalism-Germany-utterly-failed.html
“German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said her country’s attempts to build a post-war multicultural society have ‘utterly failed’.
In a landmark speech, she broke one of Germany’s last taboos and courted anti-immigration support by claiming those from a different background failed to live happily side-by-side with native Germans.
Her comments, to the youth wing of her own Christian Democrat Union party, came amid growing resentment about immigration in Germany.”
Angela Merkel said it;
Nicolas Sarkozy said it;
David Cameron said it;
but Nigel Farage and UKIP say they’ll actually do something about it.
Thanks Marc. We need more recognition of this abject national policy failure in the rest of Europe and in Canada.
Robert of Ottawa, I think they mean “communities” in the sense that at various times during the last century when different nationalities or groups immigrated such as many Galacian Ukrainians around 1900, Russians after the revolution and civil war, Mennonites in the 1920s, Italians after WWII, and so forth, were sometimes referred to as “communities”.
Perhaps, but they would not have dared saying it just few short years ago. Things are changing…
Merkel said it in 2010.
Nothing changed.
Here in Canada we do nothing about the Human rights commission,(screw Harper) Multiculturalism (screw Harper) shall I go on, I can go all day long. This stupid I’m voting because they are better then the other guy thing, is stupid. We need a whole new system, and by you guys voting that way, we will never get it.
‘Nothing Sacred’
So what does the nihilism of Western society offer to Muslims? Nothing, except shiny trinkets. That’s why the Muslim world is saying a resounding “No” to liberal modernity and reinforcing their own traditions. This is also why they are threatening to wipe out our own, as we have no real defense against it. Our values are empty and offer nothing to our own people.
http://www.radixjournal.com/journal/2015/1/8/nothing-sacred
I hear what Steyn is trying to say, but he must have thought later that it was a fairly weak comment given that the “whole freedom of speech thing” was already on life support in the mainstream media, in academic circles and in society at large. He really meant “I would like to live in a much different world,” and that’s not going to happen so we have to start making some very difficult choices — fight back harder, give up, pretend we were progressives all along — but choose one because firing off a daily salvo on an internet forum is accomplishing exactly nothing. Trust me on this, you are wasting your time until there is a political party in place that hears what you are saying and is willing to legislate to achieve verifiable goals. The current smoke and mirrors about passionate commitment to free speech ends as soon as you cross Wellington Street. Go to Ottawa and see for yourself.
This video was put up on you-tube 5 years ago in 2006.It should be watched by anyone that is concerned with the rise of islam. Pay particular attention to the mention of the cartoons at about the 3 minute mark.
‘What islam is not.’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEXWjlgJ83E
Watch it.
A very good video based on facts.
If you are frozen inside on the weekend, pick up a copy of ‘America Alone’ by Mr.Steyn.
Read it.
A very good book based on facts.
If you are still vacillating about the threat of islam, watch a beheading or a stoning, they can be found on google.
Keep these in mind when you vote, Harper or Trudeau.
One thinks that resource extraction is the greatest threat to our future. The other knows better.
http://www.theindychannel.com/newsy/boko-haram-razes-villages-kills-hundreds-in-latest-assault
“Boko Haram Razes Villages, Kills Hundreds In Latest Assault
The Nigerian terrorist group Boko Haram successfully overran a town and military outpost in northwestern Nigeria this week, and local officials say the death toll could reach as high as 2,000.
“Basically they attacked the village over the weekend and killed lots of people, some are talking about hundreds of people killed. … Then they came back on Wednesday and started killing again.”
After taking over a military base near the town of Baga Saturday, Boko Haram fighters rampaged through 16 surrounding towns and villages Tuesday and Wednesday, burning homes and slaughtering civilians.”
Coming soon to a European nation…and whatever happened to all those girls First Lady “Obama-Nation™” tweeted about?
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group ‘True North’
To me the protests occurring around the world are a clear statement to the islamofascists of the weakness of the west. Really pissed off people don’t have candlelight vigils, they put on their steel toed boots, slap on a hard hat, and then pick up a baseball bat or heavy steel bar and head in groups of a hundred or more into the “no go” zones of France carrying copies of “blasphemous” cartoons on their banners. Any attacks on the pro-free speech demonstration are dealt with swiftly and with sufficient force to ensure that they aren’t repeated. In the US, people could carry their pistols in case shooting started, but baseball bats and steel bars are sufficient to teach barbarians initial lessons in civility and respect for diverse viewpoints.
The self-styled elites in the west are determined to have a race of sheeple and are largely succeeding by producing an uneducated conformist class who hasn’t the slightest idea of notions of self-sufficiency and independent thought. Nothing raises the stature of a second rate narcissist more than ensuring his underlings are far more stupid than he is.
“Liberals” don’t realize how despised they are by the barbaric islamofascist hordes they are bringing into their countries. In his book Lila Pirsig argued that social quality has an absolute right to control biologic quality. Biologic quality consists of completely uncontrolled reproduction of the welfare classes which is encouraged by “liberal” politicians as it results in an ever growing dependent class which will always vote for them as they’re the good people who give them lots of free stuff. Pirsig was aware of how appalled muslims were by the unchecked promiscuity and total lack of morals of much of the western populations that existed 20 years ago when Pirsig wrote Lila. Pirsig argues that it took centuries for muslims to exert societal control over the biologic; we did it in a much more productive manner in the Victorian area; a time which is looked upon with disdain by the “sophisticated” modern pneumocephalic.
Christianity has come up with a much better way of controlling the excesses of biologic urges in the population than islam, but this common tenet of both religions should be recognized. Nevertheless, the only way to deal with a group of individuals who refuse to accept the primary social tenets of western society of freedom of speech and expression is with violence and, given that many of us are descendants of Vikings and other N. European barbaric tribes, when we get mad, watch out.
Yes, BC (6:41 PM), Mark Steyn absolutely knows what he’s talking about. He’s hugely influential and important to the cause of western liberty because he fearlessly and relentlessly – and with black humour, always the humour – bears witness to Islamism and the decline of the West. Unlike you, though, he doesn’t pretend to have solutions (read Peter’s comment at 10:26) to Islamism and the decline of the West; his contribution is to help to change the culture, which he succeeds in doing as much as anyone extant. You deign to have solutions, but you actually don’t — at least, not if we’re being realistic about it.
Name-dropping Mark Steyn isn’t going to convert me to your non-solutions. E.g.,
Okay, big boy: have you stormed any mosques lately? Which ones? Where? Do tell. Show us the heft of your balls. Have you burned any mosques to the ground? Or are you maybe just suggesting that other people burn down Mosques? Have you ever (non-pseudonymously) published any anti-Islamist literature in your community? If so, could you direct us to this resource? Have you ever organized any anti-Islamist rallies?
And while we’re at it, do you think it would help the cause of liberty to burn down/storm a Mosque, or do you think it might instead galvanize national support for Muslims, and further ensconce the already-embedded victim narrative? Whaddaya think, ace?
Being a keyboard warrior is one thing — it allows one to advocate any course of action whatsoever, no matter how impossible — but what’s your actual plan? What’s your strategy?
I’m on the record as saying that it would be advisable to seriously limit immigration from Muslim countries, that any Canadian-born Muslim (or any other) citizen who goes overseas to fight for our enemies should be charged with treason, and that non-passport-holding residents who do the same should be denied reentry into the country. We should each individually — because that’s all we can really control — refuse to bow to Muslim proscriptions against speech (I’ve been a big Ezra supporter since day one, and drove two hundred miles to attend his rally after Israel supporters were assaulted across the street from the plaza) and we should reward through our support and reader/viewership media outlets that stand up for our western values, while relentlessly calling out the lamestream media for their doublespeak and elisions regarding Islam.
That’s just a partial list. It may not be much, but at least it’s realistic. What’s your plan, other than positing – demanding – typed-out unrealistic actions that will never be implemented, and more importantly, that *you’ll* never take?
Radical Islam is being aided and abetted by weak-kneed progressive p***ies — they’ve actually created the problem, IMO — but on the other side of the coin, typing out unrealistic, putatively hard-ass “solutions” that don’t have a chance in hell of being implemented don’t do anything to address the problem — as in, nada.
If you’ve ever been in a real serious physical fight you’ll know that A) you can’t fight like a total monkey-brain retard and expect to win; and B) all the shit-talk before the fight about what you’re going to do to the other guy has sweet f***-all to do with what happens next.
Take note of that, BC. Personally, I filed that note a long time ago.
But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living.
Indeed choose whom you will serve but indeed you will serve. I really believe that Islam is a scourge from Yahweh since we won’t serve Yahweh…
100% agreement here.
Well said.
That is a slap-down.
I am waiting with bait on my breath for the response.
EBD I won’t debate you because you constantly distort what I say, you presume I know nothing, and you are a very bitter person which makes debating you tiresome. You also engage in endless, loathsome circular arguments, which you purposely try to disguise under a very thin veneer of intellectualism.
I will continue to critique your posts where appropriate, and they often deserve to be critiqued. But I won’t debate you, no matter how much you shout and holler and call me childish names. Do you honestly think I would have any desire to engage you after your post above?
I have learned from watching, over many years, how badly you mistreat readers on this blog. I’m not going to be drawn into your nasty web.
For the record I have written countless letters to newspapers regarding the threat of Islam. One letter, after the London bombings, which I am particularly proud of, was published around the world, and even got me a radio interview in Canada (my few minutes of radio fame, to say I was nervous is an understatement). When I was working on my Ph.D. I was surrounded by middle-eastern students, many of them Elmasry’s, all of them crazy to various degrees. I debated them constantly. For four years I shared an office with one that made me so sick I wanted to strangle him. One of them told me to my face “I am in Canada to defeat you and help Allah.” He is now a professor in Canada. I even publicly took on Elmasry at one of his many Islam-is-great, Israelis are evil, talks he used to give. It was a gutsy move given how much influence he held in the department at the time, but you wouldn’t understand that. Another student and myself tried to keep Elmasry’s students from attending our candidacy exams – we despised them that much – and we got into serious trouble for it. I would routinely kick them out of the washrooms when they started washing their feet in the hand basins, and got into plenty of trouble for that too.
Having spent four years immersed with these sons of bitches I know how they think. I can also see that the average Canadian has no idea how they think.
I have also lived in France, just outside of Paris, and had a French girlfriend, quite classy, whose father was high up in the civil service (she is now also in the civil service, very French indeed). They lived in a spectacular home just outside of Paris. I know a bit about how the French think. Most of them feel the “Muslim problem” is just something in a few bad neighbourhoods, and that it will not impact them. That the French culture can easily withstand the assault. I am simplifying things a bit, but I don’t feel the desire to tell you more.
I have read all (well maybe not all, but many) of the important books on the subject, including of course Steyn, Fallaci (an amazing woman), and so forth. Some books I have in duplicate. Several books I have bought many copies and given them to other people, including politicians, friends, family, etc. My Amazon mailing list has about 30 people on it as of last count, and when I order books I inevitably fire off a few to others. I even handed, in person, one of Steyn’s books, nicely wrapped, to one of the finest Jewish classical pianists alive today. There is more to the story, but I am not going to share it with you, and besides you wouldn’t understand the significance of it because your taste in music is frankly awful.
Last night I wrote to my local MP and told him that I supported Harper’s desire to get tough with Islamic radicals, which he appreciated. I have a good rapport with my local MP, and we discuss this topic often. In fact he and I were texting back and forth while the shooting was going on in Ottawa and he was holed up in a room with gunshots outside. I also once had quite a long chat with the previous premier of BC (Gordon Campbell) on this very topic at an event where I met him (I have met him for other reasons over the years).
Finally, I know a bit about totalitarian regimes. My father lost everything to Mugabe. Not a fun time in our family’s life. I will not share any details of that with you either, because you are not worth it.
When I say the French should “burn a mosque down”, any intelligent person would know that I am not necessarily serious. If you had taken the time to read my follow-on post, which you probably did but then conveniently ignored, I suggested that at the very least I would want to see the French block a mosque for a few days. That would at least show some sign that they are willing to go to the heart of problem.
Screw you EBD. Starting today I will cease to engage you. I may critique your posts, but no engagement. You are a horrible person, arrogant, and a very negative force on this blog. You have driven away many good, decent people. Frankly, I wish Kate would ban you.
R of O; “No the “Islamic communities” are the worst positioned to deal with these people.”
Fair enough; let me elucidate – they should be in the position to deal with jihadists. I explain why they’re not right now and better wake up.
EBD I am adding an single appendix to my post for the simple reason that you are no doubt planning your next “smackdown” (to quote wallyj above – interesting how you can so easily rally the masses against people you don’t like).
I said I had read “Steyn, Fallaci, and so forth” and you are no doubt thinking I am a simpleton fool. That is your way. Allow me to clarify my comment before you attempt to further paint me in the wrong way in this forum.
I have read a good deal. For example, I have read all of Conrad Black’s books, except for his recent book on the history of Canada which is sitting on my nightstand waiting to be opened. I have been in touch with Mr. Black over many years, both before, during and after his incarceration. We have had many enjoyable email exchanges. Not everyone may like him, but he is not the monster some think he is, and his writing is always a tour de force that equals his intellect.
I have read most of Harris, and the others in that group (Dennett, Dawkins, etc.). Harris’ words in the opening of the End of Faith always stick in my mind “…we confront a civilization [Islam] with an arrested history. It is as though a portal in time has opened, and fourteenth-century hordes are pouring into our world. Unfortunately, they are now armed with twenty-first-century weapons.” He nails it right there.
I have read Bennett and others on that side of the spectrum.
There is a section on my shelf devoted to music, including a thick volume on classical music given to me by a very wonderful and cultured young Iranian lady, who always makes a point that she is a “Persian”.
I recently read The Brothers Karamazov, given to me by a very wise and kind elderly Czech friend who has taught me more about communism than anyone. The stories of her having to hide under the bed as a child as the Russians searched her parents’ home are a vivid reminder of how bad things can get.
There is a section of books in French, all the classics, which help me keep up my French (no way will I read or listen or watch the French CBC). Victor Hugo, etc.
There are of course the books on Africa, such as Ian Smith’s “The great betrayal” which was a tough but important read given it covered an awful part of African history that my parents and I lived through. I have most of the Michener books, and others on Africa which I am quite sure you probably know nothing about.
There is a wall covered with advanced engineering texts, several which reference my own work.
Jewish culture has always fascinated me and I have an affinity for it that I cannot explain, even though I loath Jewish liberals. So I have some books there too, fun stuff, like Arthur Rubinstein’s two autobiographies which I bought at a used bookstore many years ago. Even the bastard Pierre Trudeau admitted that Rubinstein was a great raconteur.
I tell my small circle of Jewish friends “I would have been happy to have been born a Jew”, to which they always reply “Oh no you wouldn’t, trust us!” with much laughter.
And speaking of the Jewish culture, I have on my desk a beautifully printed copy of the PMs speech to the Israeli Knesset, that I had autographed by the PM himself. I am going to get it framed, and am sending it to a very prominent and significant Jew, known worldwide, who has been outspoken against radical Islam. He did something very kind for my daughter, and this is my small way to thank him in return.
We all come to this truly fine blog of Kate’s for different reasons, sometimes we get hot under the collar, and we shouldn’t. But you are the only person here who always, without fail, presumes that the person you are conversing with is an idiot. It is in your DNA.
As I said, I may still from time to time critique your posts, and indeed I might sharpen my knife in that regard. But I am done engaging with you. Good riddance.