50 Replies to “Oh, Shiny Pony!”

  2. Y’know I keep hearing how bold and brilliant this move is but I’m not buying it. This is purely survival instincts. The AG report must be awful and the party of Adscam and “entitled to my entitlements” is trying to run away from the newest stink bomb. FTR, I have no doubt Con senators are in the shit up to their ears too.
    I also have no doubt that if Harper had done this then the same journalists patting JT on the back would be raking Harper over the coals. This whole deal seems like a desperate attempt by Liberals and the “non-biased” media to play a disaster into a victory.
    I’m in the abolish the senate camp. Hold a referendum and if people think the senate is as useless as I think it is then either replace it with the triple E senate or give more power directly to the provinces. Our country is too big and too diverse to follow the UK Lords style second chamber.

  5. This is the logo the Ottawa Senators should have, instead of that goof in the Roman helmet.

  6. The moral equivalence being explicitly drawn in the cartoon between Liberals and Conservatives remains to be proven, and hopefully the Auditor-General’s report will provide us all with a good deal of information on that subject. Far be it from the media, of course, to provide any actual evidence in support of its drive-by slurs.
    The fact remains that, if Mr. Trudeau, Jr.’s assertions are to be believed, the only party that has expelled Senators for abuse of privilege (expenses) has been the Conservatives. And this obviously needs repeating: the only reason information on expense abuse came to light at all was because of legislative changes brought in by the Conservatives.

  7. Although he’s no a fan of the Senate why doesn’t Mulcair try to recruit at least 5 of the senators to form the opposition in the Senate just to frig with Shiny Pony?

  8. This column by Den Tandt is indicative of how Trudeau’s move is playing to his base,the Liberal LIV. Liberals across the Country were in full swoon all day yesterday,and some of the female News anchors on TV were positively orgasming when doing this story.
    While we see it as the cartoon suggests,Trudeau’s fans are in seventh heaven,believing their hero has committed a political masterstroke.
    While I still believe Canadians will wake up to the fact Trudeau couldn’t run a lemonade stand effectively,the thousands of pro Juss-tin comments I see on almost every internet site are worrisome if they translate into votes.
    Canada’s white, big-nosed Obama?

  9. I suspect that disgruntled former Liberal senators and Liberals aspiring to be senate bagmen and cronies might start to spill secrets. Hell hath no fury like a politician scorned….or a parasite removed from its host.
    This idea about an impartial panel appointing senators really misses the point about problems with the senate. The upper house is still unbalanced with the West not getting a fair voice. They still won’t represent or defend provincial rights. They still won’t be accountable. They will still be an inefficient way of conducting a “sober second look”They still lack the legitimacy of being chosen by voters. Instead of political cronies it will be well connected VIPs, celebrity and pay to play types. Centralizing the decision to another Ottawa-based body changes absolutely nothing. Putting “better” people in a flawed corrupt system is not a solution.

  11. It seems the Ottawa Citizen has a number of articles touting this as a fabulous
    strategic move. However, their “Editorial” piece is pretty harsh by comparison.
    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/Trudeau+plants+seeds+revolution+expelling+Liberal+senators+from/9446721/story.html
    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/national/Political+scientist+pollster+call+Justin+Trudeau+Senate/9445584/story.html
    Den Tandt piece (very partisan Liberal supporter):
    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Trudeau+Senate+gambit+tactical+masterstroke/9445711/story.html
    Editorial
    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/editorials/Editorial+wrong+reform+Senate/9444961/story.html
    Hmm, Dion has some interesting criticism’s of a plan similar to Pony’s:
    http://stephanedion.liberal.ca/en/articles-en/elephant-red-chamber-inroads-34-2013/

  12. Either make it an elected senate or get ride of it. I prefer the latter myself as it will just be a repeat of the HOC with millions to run it. I’d rather put the $$$$ towards debt reduction so my children inherit less debt. I think that is a better legacy to leave them than a senate.

  13. I must admit my first reaction to Trudeau’s move was positive. “Oh lookit that,” said I, “little Justin actually did something.”
    Then I thought about it for about ten seconds and realized he didn’t do anything at all, just change the window dressing on the House Pierre Built.
    So, good PR move in the short term, because most people aren’t going to bother thinking past their initial reaction.
    The Senate could be a valuable protection for Canada if it was elected by province instead of by population. A tension between the Montreal/Toronto/Vancouver crowd and regional alignments like West vs. Atlantic vs. Ontario/Quebec could prevent them from getting things done. Things like tax increases, gun control, immigration, all kinds of stuff.
    Anything that prevents a too-big government from getting things done is a good thing.

  15. and now representation west of Ontario is essentially nada in liberal caucus
    all quebec all the time.

  16. Sammy “It’s settled..Craig Oliver just said on CTV it was brilliant,so it must be!”
    Didn’t Craig Oliver have his nose pretty tightly wedged up Trudeau Senior’s butt? Oliver and Barney Fife don’t even pretend any more.

  17. The third rail in the discussion of senate reform is that of having to overcome the amending formula and the inevitable can of worms ie:Meech and Charlottetown accords. I believe that this obstacle can be overcome if instead of trying to find consensus from the top and then the line that forms on the left, it would better to table a clear brief bill to put before voters in the next election to implement 3e or abolish the upper house. Once there is a popular consent on one or the other option heaven help any provincial body opposing the voters wishes or for that matter the HoC and the Senate.
    Its not that Canadians oppose constitutional change, they oppose allowing politicians and vested interests a licence to open the constitution to see what changes they can make (like PET did).
    That being said can we now call him the stunt pony instead of the shiny pony?

  18. Their would be no better impartial panel than having Canadian voters select them via elections. Why hasn’t any journo asked JT about that?

  20. opening up the senate debate means numbers of senators too. Sask, PEI, Quebec, NB and NS all way over represented. and constitutionally guaranteed right now , quebec with 25%,,PEI with one for every 25000 people ( not voters) people
    nfld 500 k people 6
    sask 1000k people 6
    PEI 100k people 4
    Alta 3000k people 6
    the dippers have no senators and wont vote for senate reform as they are not likely to get any being traditionally the third party.
    fire. them. all.

  21. This will be fun.
    Just like last election, the Liberals biggest problem is the NDP nipping at their flank.
    I suspect Neck Beard is salivating, waiting to chomp some Liberal butt; just like the old pervert Jack-off-on-an-under-aged-Asian-slave did to Iggy’s Liberals. I think it was shortsighted attempt to embarrass the CPC while leaving themselves open to an attack from the Left regarding the Senate; which happens to be Neck Beard’s pet issue(pardon the pun).
    We’re I PMSHs political adviser, I’d recommend moving forward with the agenda(balance the budget and income-splitting for the middle class); and let the Left eat itself. In other words, stay out of it.

  22. For a smart media move Justin ends up looking like an ass. The Liberal senators decided to form a senate caucus and keep their perks and the speaker of the Senate agreed. Turdeau is such a fool.

  25. I’m not sure rep by pop would fly in a “reformed” senate since the HOC already has a flawed version of that. I’d favor abolition. Others might look at 3E or something else but I doubt rep by pop would be an viable option.

  27. An interesting CP article that was not picked up by the CBC or G&M.
    It gives a bit more insight into JT’s decision to let the dogs out, even though they refuse to leave the yard.
    http://www.citynews.ca/2014/01/30/the-road-taken-by-justin-trudeau-to-his-senate-reform-decision/
    I especially like this linet;
    ” He wanted to do something concrete, as he had done last spring when he announced that Liberal MPs and senators would voluntarily begin disclosing more details about their travel and hospitality expenses.”
    And like that move, this one does little but give his fan base another reason to gush.

  28. Why is it that every time PMSH expels someone from the Conservative caucus for good reason we hear howls of indignation? The pony expels 32 caucus members for no reason except for political cover and he is made out to be a flinty eyed chess master and a bold reformer. I need some beer and popcorn.
    Den Tandt is an utter hack.

  29. I think at this point the Senate will have to be got rid of. The idea of a bunch of appointed unaccountable elites getting to pass judgement on the legislation brought forward by an elected government is too much. If they are going to do it this way, then forget about an appointments process — just have a contest. We can all apply. Justin’s idea gets rid of any accountability in the Senate.

  30. Any finger-pointing or scramble for high moral ground between old-line Fed Parties concerning pork is akin to a group of whores in a peeing match over Christin values.
    This cynical gesture, combined with the Tourettes-like name-calling and detestable petulant snubbing of reporters from certain news organizations who have not signed on as JT groupies, leads me to believe the new Librano strawman is just another typical arrogant Liberal elitist with same compromised ethics and duality we’ve come to expect from this creed. Nothing more. This one is not special or different – just more of the same Librano sleaze with less intellectual ammo and only nice hair as PR bling.
    LIV bait.

  31. An open contest? I can do one better: how about something like Willy Wonka and the Golden Ticket. File your taxes, win a chance at a lifetime on the gravy train. Could a regular person really do more harm ?

  32. He’s going to have a competition like the Order of Canada. So, once again only the elite need apply. Perhaps we can find a few more anti-semite natives to fill in a couple of the empty seats in the “upper” chamber.
    Another typical Liberal ploy to make themselves look good. Kind of like the “I will abolish the GST”.
    As if the supposed “kicked out” Liberal senators will all of a sudden stop voting “liberally”. That is who they are, cheats and liars. They will never vote for a Conservative initiative.

  33. In case anyone wants to deal in reality, the Confederation(Constitution) Act of 1867 outlines our bicameral government in Section 17.
    The details of the Canadian Senate are outlined in Sections 21 through 36.
    None of the dream scenarios of people who want to eliminate the Canadian Senate or randomly select senators as some sort of joke prize will ever happen unless the Constitution is opened up a la Meech Lake/ Charlottetown Accords.
    Just which Prime Minister do you folks have in mind to commit political suicide this way, eh?
    And do any of you senate-eliminationists have the first idea why bicameral national governments are better than unicameral national governments or do you just prefer the People’s Republic of China model?

  34. From Den Tandt’s article; ” not a whisper leaked until Wednesday morning, when The Canadian Press’s Joan Bryden broke the story just as Trudeau was delivering the news to dumbfounded, now former Liberal senators. In the party of bygone days, word of a change this big would have hit the news within hours of its inception.”
    Holy Hanna, this hack is telling us that the media, maybe just Joan,maybe just him and Joan, maybe many, but definitely CP’s Joan Bryden had the story, but kept it under wraps until JT released it.
    He is proud that they covered for JT. He is proud that he and others can be trusted by the Liberal party. He is tingling all over.
    We are going to be screwed, no dinner, no courtesy spit, just bend over and shut up.
    Apathy is not an option.

  35. Too bad Senator Cowan didn’t get the memo as he insisted that he was still the Liberal leader of the Official Liberal Opposition!

  36. Addendum: and, yes, that was the first time I’d ever heard of Senator Cowan’s name too.

  37. Oz, see my 12:55 post for pro-abolition arguments. The idea is not exactly fringe. It may not be easy but it is not impossible to abolish the senate either.
    Beside, referendum-wise there might very well be more support for senate abolition than Meech/Charlotte and Quebec independence. Especially if the AG report is really awful.
    I don’t expect you to respond without name-calling but I thought I’d give it a shot anyhow.

  38. That’s an extremely good point, as is LC Bennett’s, to which you were responding; as I understand it, Mr. Harper made essentially similar points yesterday during question period.
    There are a few other corollary items that should be considered, IMO, to wit:
    – the Quebec Superior Court (QSC) has already struck down Mr. Harper’s practical, common sense approach to having the prime minister (Governor-General-in-Council) appoint senators based on non-binding provincial elections for those appointments;
    – the record shows that the very first senator appointed on the basis of a non-binding senatorial provincial election was Stan Waters, who was appointed by Mr. Mulroney;
    – the QSC sided with the Province of Quebec (I’m pretty sure it was Mr. Charest’s government who brought the action), on the basis that one or more provinces would not wish to have their senators appointed in such a manner;
    – the QSC’s decision, as I understand it, was that such an arrangement required a constitutional amendment allowing this to happen;
    – the QSC’s decision in this matter served as one of the bases for Mr. Harper’s reference to the SCOC on what is allowed, or not, in a similar way his government, in light of the Province of Quebec’s objections (Mr. Charest, again, I believe), brought a reference to the SCOC on a national securities regulator (and lost); and
    – so, what happens if one or more provinces do not wish to have their senators appointed by an “impartial panel”, whatever that means (and I agree with you about the definition of “impartial panel”)? The media and the Liberals, or at least Mr. Trudeau, Jr. and his “advisors”, less his Senate colleagues, seem to be of the view that this would not require a constitutional amendment.
    How does that work?
    For the record, Mr. Trudeau, Jr.’s notion of a Senate comprised of “outstanding” Canadians is nothing new: it’s been kicking around in university classrooms for at least 35 years, advocated mainly by those passed over for service in the Pearson-Trudeau, Sr. governments: John Diefenbaker was “the old guy” to that lot.
    As a parting thought, I know nothing about the Liberal Party of Canada constitution — and would avert my eyes, reflexively, if it ever came into my view, but how does Mr. Trudeau, Jr. just get to kick his senators out of his party?

  39. I am willing to serve as a Senator of Canada until the age of 75 for a salary of $100,000 per year. I do not ask for further perks, i.e. health insurance, pension, travel, or whatever, and I promise to live in Ottawa at my own expense during the periods in which the members are “sitting”, so long as I can be given 30 days notice of those sittings. I solemnly promise that I will not accept any bribes by any persons or organizations, political, racial, or economic. I promise to vote my conscience, and my conscience only. Justin, Steve, Tom, or even Liz, please contact me via Kate’s blog.

  41. I listened to Mr. Wall’s speech until the 11:48 mark and Mr. Wall completely misapprehends the concept of Effective in the Triple ‘E’ Senate model.
    He just doesn’t have a ghost of a clue.
    The Effective in a Triple ‘E’ Senate derives entirely for being Elected first.
    Provinces can get away with unicameral governments because they can be overridden by the external national government if they get too far out of line, too estranged, from the national spirit of healthy government.
    National governments have no internal check except to be bicameral.
    Yes our senate does not at this time provide that check, but the answer is to fix it not eliminate it.
    And thank you for replying to my post without the name calling you started last time we had a discussion.
    Maybe you’re maturing, but I don’t expect you are.

  42. I like the guy’s efficiency, Harper just tosses his Senators out one at a time. Might as well just make one trip out to the garbage can, right?

  43. For some time now the check on government power has become the SCOC. The senate is basically a useless appendage that provides few if any valuable functions. In practice, a unicameral system is what we have now and it doesn’t seem worse than the US or UK. At worst, abolition would pave the way for an actual Tripe E system. Reform has proved impossible, for reason outlined by D.Southam.
    BTW, I rarely if ever insult people and tend to focus on ideas. With a few exceptions I stick to science posts at SDA now because it has sanest discussions.

  44. Nevermind JT’s antics.
    I’d still bang his mom, so there.
    Happens to be an apple pie issue with me….

  45. Maybe the time has come to amend the constitution’s amending formula. Right now, the only people who can amend the constitution are elected politicians. I would like to see a binding referendum for a Triple E Senate made directly to the Canadian people.
    Tell the courts and politicians that we don’t care if a referendum is not constitutional, it’s about time that the people who are paying the freight have a direct voice in amending the Constitution of Canada. It couldn’t be worse than the current straight jacket that was inflicted on us by the Constitution Act of 1982.
    Do we have a politician with the balls to call for a reference directly to the people without having to dicker with every federal and provincial politician in the country who has a pet project?

  48. LC Bennett;
    Maybe they have already started spilling their guts. Maybe Elections Canada is looking closely at the audit data and maybe an ‘unbiased’ Elections Canada apparatchik happened to mention to his Liberal Party worker boyfriend that the audit provided some juicy fodder for upcoming Elections Canada investigations. Just maybe, or, maybe not!
    Maybe I’m giving Justin way too much credit. Maybe Justin took some sound advice from his high paid ex-McGuinty schills and dumped Senators who weren’t going to listen to him anyhow before they embarrassed him like the so called Conservative Senators didn’t listen to the PM?

  49. I think Justin Trudeau’s life must,at times, seem like that of a man who is lost in a great Hall of Mirrors!

  50. LC Bennett;
    Maybe they have already started spilling their guts. Maybe Elections Canada is looking closely at the audit data and maybe an ‘unbiased’ Elections Canada apparatchik happened to mention to his Liberal Party worker boyfriend that the audit provided some juicy fodder for upcoming Elections Canada investigations. Just maybe, or, maybe not!
    Maybe I’m giving Justin way too much credit. Maybe Justin took some sound advice from his high paid ex-McGuinty schills and dumped Senators who weren’t going to listen to him anyhow before they embarrassed him like the so called Conservative Senators didn’t listen to the PM?

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