‘Ouch’ is right.
I’ve seen a bit of the protest on both CNN and the CBC. Total chaos is just a shot away.
Egyptians don’t want an Islamist state; they want freedom and economic progress.
Replacing one dictatorship, a secular one, with another, a theocratic one, won’t work because it won’t deal with the real problems in Egypt, which are economic.
But transforming from a two to a three class infrastructure isn’t like flicking a light switch. Various sects and agendas, previously repressed by the dominant set, will emerge to fight for their own agendas. It takes time, but I continue to support this vital transformation of the MENA.
Meanwhile, Syria is imploding all on its own, while Assad fights to retain his own dictatorial powers.
How does one hold a camel down and crap on it at the same time?
Without losing an arm, I mean.
Send in the camel cavalry,.. I can’t recall anything that tickled me more, than seeing that happen, during the last riot season.
I must say that I fully admit I was wrong … at least so far, about the liberty-loving citizens of Egypt losing their opportunity to become a Western-style democracy. I didn’t think that sufficient numbers of them would rise up against the totalitarian Islamists.
Much is still to unfold in this drama and I hope the very best for them but so far I was wrong. And I’m happy I was.
Meanwhile, Syria is imploding all on its own, while Assad fights to retain his own dictatorial powers.
~ET
As those of us who are connected to reality said of the dictators Hosni Mubarak and Moamar Gaddafi, the people taking them down were Islamists backed by al Qaeda.
Same thing is happening in Syria.
None of this is happening “all on it’s own”.
Foreign fighters and foreign weapons are making this happen, their goal is not democracy.
Things are shaking up all right, but the direction things are taking is not good and there is no real reason to imagine that things MUST improve.
You’ve got that right Oz. It’s all co-ordinated.
“Egyptians don’t want an Islamist state; they want freedom and economic progress.”
And they all sent you a postcard stating this? With their knew found middle class wealth?
Are you chanelling Bob Costas?
Considering that most Egyptians are illiterate and hammered with Islamist ideology since birth, they have larger cultural issues than economic ones.
Who becomes Obama’s Egyptian stooge if Morsi goes (or will Obama let that happen)?
Egyptians can not know what they want if they have never had it and do not have a clue what it is. They have lived under a succession of autocratic monarchs and dictators.
Just like the Russians in 1917, the Egyptians will end up with a more tyrannical dictator than they previously had and the west will have been complicit with their delusions of an Arab Spring.
People are not buying arms in record numbers because its fashionable.
Osumashi, no, you are confusing Egypt with, possibly, Afghanistan or Yemen. Over 70% of Egyptians are literate.
There IS a disconnect between urban (about 40%) and rural, but this will change over the years.
Justthinkin, I’ll stand by my comments that Egypt and the other Islamist peoples, in the majority, do not want yet another dictatorship. The Egyptian population did not demonstrate against Mubarak because they wanted an Islamist theocracy.
They demonstrated against him because they wanted to get rid of the economic statism which was confining them to lifelong poverty and they wanted more economic and also, political freedom.
Ken(Kulak), it is possible that a revolution in infrastructure takes two steps. First, you overthrow the hereditary dictatorial infrastructure but then, since there are NO INSTITUTIONS already in place for a new system, ie, democracy, to operate, then, you might have to go through a second phase of a dictatorship achieved by grabbing power. It can’t last because the economic pressures that moved the first uprising will remain in place.
Again, if there are no political and legislative institutions in place that enable a democratic government to emerge, an ‘inbetween’ phase develops. The political and legislative institutions (constitution, electoral rules, legislative rules etc) have to be developed.
ET, that second phase and economic pressures took 70 years in Russia, and is still in doubt. I do not think the Islamists want to give us 70 years before confronting us. I also think we are going to have a problem and many of our leaders do not see it.
The Iranians also do not want their dictatorial leadership, but may well be forced to go to war.
He’s not necessarily pissed about having a dictator, he’s pissed that “their dictator” is now “Obambas Bitch”.
Arabs can be very racists towards black people; especially foreign Affirmative Action black presidents that help Islamic extremists overthrow governments and destabilize their countries into totalitarian cesspits.
“He’s not necessarily pissed about having a dictator, he’s pissed that “their dictator” is now “Obambas Bitch”.
Arabs can be very racists towards black people; especially foreign Affirmative Action black presidents that help Islamic extremists overthrow governments and destabilize their countries into totalitarian cesspits.
Posted by: Knight 99 at December 4, 2012 10:39 PM
Bingo.You all just come on done to SE Edmontom,and watch the browns(muzzies)and the blacks(blacks) have a kumbaya love in.And the sad thing is,they don’t even knowing it’s happening.You KNOW you are in deep gaga,when a black tells you that because you are white,you should not sit with them,because the muzzies hate the whites even more then the blacks.Where the hell is Ralph with his one way ticket for these ingrates,only this time to Morontario,instead of BC.
ET, Egypt has about a 71% literacy rate with 59% of women being literate. You still have an Islamic culture and Islamists in power. We’ve heard that if the Chinese had purchasing power, democracy would then follow. It hasn’t and I don’t have similar hopes for Egypt. I’m not saying a functioning economy couldn’t help but the culture as it is is a great impediment.
I don’t think the protesters are in any kind of position to drive the ship of state, even a basket-case like Egypt. According to Andrew McCarthy, the majority of Egypt actually supports the Islamic Brotherhood who have had much time to prepare for the opportunity to take control. Morsi is putting Egypt on a fast track into Sharia Law and the dissenting minority are blowing off steam as they experience the tyranny of the majority and the farce of democracy absent rule of law, property rights, civil rights, separation of church and state etc (IOW, one man, one vote, once). I wish them well but sense that they are all screwed. Egypt will become a Sunni led Islamic Republic but otherwise pretty much like Iran. Too bad the Israelis gave back the Sinai! It makes a great strategic buffer.
Justthinkin >
Yup I won’t even go to West Ed. anymore. I had a friend up from Denver a couple of years ago that I had worked with for years in the ME & SEA, he was shocked.
The biggest thing were all the nasty stares and glares that we got that never would have happened to us overseas by these same welfare squatters milling around the Mall on an average Canadian work day.
Over there it’s “yes Sir, what I can do for you Sir”, very few gave you “the look”, and only when they thought you weren’t looking.
I believe the current US foreign policy is to support any faction that commits to maintaining the reserve status of the fiat US dollar. Especially factions that can control petro resources. For Obama to claim support of democracy and freedom is truly risible.
Osumashi, yes, your literacy statistics show that they are not ‘illiterate’ as you claim.
Furthermore, in China, a democracy will, I suggest, follow its economic movement into capitalism. Please don’t assume that societal changes are similar to flicking a light switch. It takes time; you don’t move out of one system with all its institutions, all its civil service, all its laws and regulations, into another one with a completely different set of institutions and rules and laws….overnight.
Consider how long it took Harper, for example, to get rid of the Gun Registry, to get rid of the Wheat Board – and these are with the institutions in place! Please be realistic.
Ken (Kulak), agreed, about the time periods of phases. And yes, the Iranians might not want a dictatorship or war – my point on that is to rebut those people who claim that Because the Iranians or other Islamists states have a dictatorship, that it means both that they want such a rule and/or that they are incapable of living any other way.
Egypt’s freedom movement is impressive. Impossible to know what will happen over there.
The notion that Syria’s uprising is all Al-Qaeda is pure wingnut drivel. Islamists are still the minority in that revolution. The Arab Spring has been a positive event overall.
“Islamists are still the minority in that revolution.”
Yeah, try to tell that to the Lebanese christians who are being driven from their homes and/or lined up and shot by al quaeda backed fighters who are coming accross the border from Syria. I’m sure they will agree that christian-hating islamists are the minority.
My goodness ET
Delusional!
No matter how much evidence is presented, no matter how much your lying eyes tell you, you still can not grasp the fact that muslims are not the same as any one of any other culture, they do not care about values and do not think about society in the same way as you do. They do not want a dictator ? arab spring ? Its unbelievable that anyone still believes this stuff, I suppose they really are upset about videos as well? In the same way you feel about err what ?
You know I bet you can find excuses for just about everything if you try really hard.
A freedom loving muslim, thats about as realistic as a female Pope.
My goodness ET
Delusional!
No matter how much evidence is presented, no matter how much your lying eyes tell you, you still can not grasp the fact that muslims are not the same as any one of any other culture, they do not care about values and do not think about society in the same way as you do. They do not want a dictator ? arab spring ? Its unbelievable that anyone still believes this stuff, I suppose they really are upset about videos as well? In the same way you feel about err what ?
You know I bet you can find excuses for just about everything if you try really hard.
A freedom loving muslim, thats about as realistic as a female Pope.
Yeah, try to tell that to the Lebanese christians who are being driven from their homes and/or lined up and shot by al quaeda backed fighters who are coming accross the border from Syria.
It’s hard to talk to people who don’t exist. Pretty sure the Islamic fighters are going into Syria from Lebanon not the other way around.
ET, this barely literate country is still a hotbed of Islamism. Many people support Sharia law. No economic growth there. It is said on Vulcan that only Nixon can go to China. When was the last free election there? No, nothing is going to change. Yet. Get rid of communism and its crazy Islamic cousin and maybe…
LAS, where the hell do you get your information from? Will Lebanese/Egyptian/Palestinian Christians exist once the Islamists are through? No, and that’s the problem.
You guys are all pretty racist and mean. Why are all conservatives like that 🙁
Ouch!
Those judges had better watch their backs.
‘Ouch’ is right.
I’ve seen a bit of the protest on both CNN and the CBC. Total chaos is just a shot away.
Egyptians don’t want an Islamist state; they want freedom and economic progress.
Replacing one dictatorship, a secular one, with another, a theocratic one, won’t work because it won’t deal with the real problems in Egypt, which are economic.
But transforming from a two to a three class infrastructure isn’t like flicking a light switch. Various sects and agendas, previously repressed by the dominant set, will emerge to fight for their own agendas. It takes time, but I continue to support this vital transformation of the MENA.
Meanwhile, Syria is imploding all on its own, while Assad fights to retain his own dictatorial powers.
How does one hold a camel down and crap on it at the same time?
Without losing an arm, I mean.
Send in the camel cavalry,.. I can’t recall anything that tickled me more, than seeing that happen, during the last riot season.
I must say that I fully admit I was wrong … at least so far, about the liberty-loving citizens of Egypt losing their opportunity to become a Western-style democracy. I didn’t think that sufficient numbers of them would rise up against the totalitarian Islamists.
Much is still to unfold in this drama and I hope the very best for them but so far I was wrong. And I’m happy I was.
Meanwhile, Syria is imploding all on its own, while Assad fights to retain his own dictatorial powers.
~ET
As those of us who are connected to reality said of the dictators Hosni Mubarak and Moamar Gaddafi, the people taking them down were Islamists backed by al Qaeda.
Same thing is happening in Syria.
None of this is happening “all on it’s own”.
Foreign fighters and foreign weapons are making this happen, their goal is not democracy.
Things are shaking up all right, but the direction things are taking is not good and there is no real reason to imagine that things MUST improve.
You’ve got that right Oz. It’s all co-ordinated.
“Egyptians don’t want an Islamist state; they want freedom and economic progress.”
And they all sent you a postcard stating this? With their knew found middle class wealth?
Are you chanelling Bob Costas?
Considering that most Egyptians are illiterate and hammered with Islamist ideology since birth, they have larger cultural issues than economic ones.
Who becomes Obama’s Egyptian stooge if Morsi goes (or will Obama let that happen)?
Egyptians can not know what they want if they have never had it and do not have a clue what it is. They have lived under a succession of autocratic monarchs and dictators.
Just like the Russians in 1917, the Egyptians will end up with a more tyrannical dictator than they previously had and the west will have been complicit with their delusions of an Arab Spring.
People are not buying arms in record numbers because its fashionable.
Osumashi, no, you are confusing Egypt with, possibly, Afghanistan or Yemen. Over 70% of Egyptians are literate.
There IS a disconnect between urban (about 40%) and rural, but this will change over the years.
Justthinkin, I’ll stand by my comments that Egypt and the other Islamist peoples, in the majority, do not want yet another dictatorship. The Egyptian population did not demonstrate against Mubarak because they wanted an Islamist theocracy.
They demonstrated against him because they wanted to get rid of the economic statism which was confining them to lifelong poverty and they wanted more economic and also, political freedom.
Ken(Kulak), it is possible that a revolution in infrastructure takes two steps. First, you overthrow the hereditary dictatorial infrastructure but then, since there are NO INSTITUTIONS already in place for a new system, ie, democracy, to operate, then, you might have to go through a second phase of a dictatorship achieved by grabbing power. It can’t last because the economic pressures that moved the first uprising will remain in place.
Again, if there are no political and legislative institutions in place that enable a democratic government to emerge, an ‘inbetween’ phase develops. The political and legislative institutions (constitution, electoral rules, legislative rules etc) have to be developed.
ET, that second phase and economic pressures took 70 years in Russia, and is still in doubt. I do not think the Islamists want to give us 70 years before confronting us. I also think we are going to have a problem and many of our leaders do not see it.
The Iranians also do not want their dictatorial leadership, but may well be forced to go to war.
He’s not necessarily pissed about having a dictator, he’s pissed that “their dictator” is now “Obambas Bitch”.
Arabs can be very racists towards black people; especially foreign Affirmative Action black presidents that help Islamic extremists overthrow governments and destabilize their countries into totalitarian cesspits.
“He’s not necessarily pissed about having a dictator, he’s pissed that “their dictator” is now “Obambas Bitch”.
Arabs can be very racists towards black people; especially foreign Affirmative Action black presidents that help Islamic extremists overthrow governments and destabilize their countries into totalitarian cesspits.
Posted by: Knight 99 at December 4, 2012 10:39 PM
Bingo.You all just come on done to SE Edmontom,and watch the browns(muzzies)and the blacks(blacks) have a kumbaya love in.And the sad thing is,they don’t even knowing it’s happening.You KNOW you are in deep gaga,when a black tells you that because you are white,you should not sit with them,because the muzzies hate the whites even more then the blacks.Where the hell is Ralph with his one way ticket for these ingrates,only this time to Morontario,instead of BC.
ET, Egypt has about a 71% literacy rate with 59% of women being literate. You still have an Islamic culture and Islamists in power. We’ve heard that if the Chinese had purchasing power, democracy would then follow. It hasn’t and I don’t have similar hopes for Egypt. I’m not saying a functioning economy couldn’t help but the culture as it is is a great impediment.
I don’t think the protesters are in any kind of position to drive the ship of state, even a basket-case like Egypt. According to Andrew McCarthy, the majority of Egypt actually supports the Islamic Brotherhood who have had much time to prepare for the opportunity to take control. Morsi is putting Egypt on a fast track into Sharia Law and the dissenting minority are blowing off steam as they experience the tyranny of the majority and the farce of democracy absent rule of law, property rights, civil rights, separation of church and state etc (IOW, one man, one vote, once). I wish them well but sense that they are all screwed. Egypt will become a Sunni led Islamic Republic but otherwise pretty much like Iran. Too bad the Israelis gave back the Sinai! It makes a great strategic buffer.
Justthinkin >
Yup I won’t even go to West Ed. anymore. I had a friend up from Denver a couple of years ago that I had worked with for years in the ME & SEA, he was shocked.
The biggest thing were all the nasty stares and glares that we got that never would have happened to us overseas by these same welfare squatters milling around the Mall on an average Canadian work day.
Over there it’s “yes Sir, what I can do for you Sir”, very few gave you “the look”, and only when they thought you weren’t looking.
I believe the current US foreign policy is to support any faction that commits to maintaining the reserve status of the fiat US dollar. Especially factions that can control petro resources. For Obama to claim support of democracy and freedom is truly risible.
Osumashi, yes, your literacy statistics show that they are not ‘illiterate’ as you claim.
Furthermore, in China, a democracy will, I suggest, follow its economic movement into capitalism. Please don’t assume that societal changes are similar to flicking a light switch. It takes time; you don’t move out of one system with all its institutions, all its civil service, all its laws and regulations, into another one with a completely different set of institutions and rules and laws….overnight.
Consider how long it took Harper, for example, to get rid of the Gun Registry, to get rid of the Wheat Board – and these are with the institutions in place! Please be realistic.
Ken (Kulak), agreed, about the time periods of phases. And yes, the Iranians might not want a dictatorship or war – my point on that is to rebut those people who claim that Because the Iranians or other Islamists states have a dictatorship, that it means both that they want such a rule and/or that they are incapable of living any other way.
Egypt’s freedom movement is impressive. Impossible to know what will happen over there.
The notion that Syria’s uprising is all Al-Qaeda is pure wingnut drivel. Islamists are still the minority in that revolution. The Arab Spring has been a positive event overall.
“Islamists are still the minority in that revolution.”
Yeah, try to tell that to the Lebanese christians who are being driven from their homes and/or lined up and shot by al quaeda backed fighters who are coming accross the border from Syria. I’m sure they will agree that christian-hating islamists are the minority.
My goodness ET
Delusional!
No matter how much evidence is presented, no matter how much your lying eyes tell you, you still can not grasp the fact that muslims are not the same as any one of any other culture, they do not care about values and do not think about society in the same way as you do. They do not want a dictator ? arab spring ? Its unbelievable that anyone still believes this stuff, I suppose they really are upset about videos as well? In the same way you feel about err what ?
You know I bet you can find excuses for just about everything if you try really hard.
A freedom loving muslim, thats about as realistic as a female Pope.
My goodness ET
Delusional!
No matter how much evidence is presented, no matter how much your lying eyes tell you, you still can not grasp the fact that muslims are not the same as any one of any other culture, they do not care about values and do not think about society in the same way as you do. They do not want a dictator ? arab spring ? Its unbelievable that anyone still believes this stuff, I suppose they really are upset about videos as well? In the same way you feel about err what ?
You know I bet you can find excuses for just about everything if you try really hard.
A freedom loving muslim, thats about as realistic as a female Pope.
Yeah, try to tell that to the Lebanese christians who are being driven from their homes and/or lined up and shot by al quaeda backed fighters who are coming accross the border from Syria.
It’s hard to talk to people who don’t exist. Pretty sure the Islamic fighters are going into Syria from Lebanon not the other way around.
ET, this barely literate country is still a hotbed of Islamism. Many people support Sharia law. No economic growth there. It is said on Vulcan that only Nixon can go to China. When was the last free election there? No, nothing is going to change. Yet. Get rid of communism and its crazy Islamic cousin and maybe…
LAS, where the hell do you get your information from? Will Lebanese/Egyptian/Palestinian Christians exist once the Islamists are through? No, and that’s the problem.
You guys are all pretty racist and mean. Why are all conservatives like that 🙁