Here’s how it works. If a trooper suspects a person may have money tied to some type of crime, the highway patrol can scan and seize money from prepaid cards. OHP stresses troopers do not do this during all traffic stops, only situations where they believe there is probable cause.
“We’re gonna look for different factors in the way that you’re acting,” Oklahoma Highway Patrol Lt. John Vincent said. “We’re gonna look for if there’s a difference in your story. If there’s someway that we can prove that you’re falsifying information to us about your business.”
Troopers insist this isn’t just about seizing cash.
No, nothing to do with that.
Just another banana republic. Why haven’t judges stopped this eons ago?
“OHP stresses troopers do not do this during all traffic stops, only situations where they believe there is probable cause.”
And suddenly, they always have probable cause. Unexpectedly!
It takes an utter moron, or (more likely), a thoroughly corrupt sleazebag not to make the connection.
So you have to prove your innocence and then they might give you your money back. Used to be burden off proof was on the state.
The constitution has been circumvented at every turn with this administration. What was once the bedrock for the rule of law is now just a historical document in the Smithsonian.
The violation of citizen’s rights would now be termed preemptive law enforcement.
…only situations where they believe there is probable cause.
So, the facts that the police department gains unappropriated funds for its own, often unaccountable use, and officers are rewarded for their successful seizures (if nothing else, through higher performance reviews and promotions) have no influence on how and when the seizure tools are used?
Right… If you really believe that, I’ve got a great deal for you on a slightly used bridge.
And the Counter Attack road side checks are different how?
The obvious trajectory of Civil forfeiture, when police departments starving for cash look for new funding streams. It’s a blatant abuse of civil liberty fraught with the temptation of corruption. The courts need to remove this aberration immediately or it will only get worse.
US of A is sinking something fierce.
I don’t like the man, but you can’t really blame the current administration for these abuses. This goes back a very long way, but didn’t become perverted like it is now until the Feds were allowed to consolidate the seized assets and use them for “law enforcement purposes.” This change happened in 1984, under President Reagan (and I’ll bet he’s rolling in his grave over how it’s now abused).
It has become a great way for police departments and federal agencies to fluff up their budget using unappropriated and unaccountable funds.
Civil asset forfeiture is a good tool when enforcing laws where the alleged guilty parties cannot be easily brought to trial and punished. For things like customs tariffs and duties, or admiralty law, for which the practice was originally used. When the defendants are available to be charged and tried, asset forfeiture is an egregious practice that is more like highway robbery than law enforcement.
Civil forfeiture, as the article describes, exists in Canada (Ontario and BC in particular) with the same problems. Your property is declared guilty of a crime, is confiscated and you have to prove that your property is innocent (at great expense) before it can be returned to you. This kind of police action is exactly the same as the actions of the King’s men at the time of the Magna Carta. It is the reason for the Magna Carta. If you don’t believe me, read the document. Under British Common Law, it should be totally illegal.
I remember as a kid in the ’50s we were warned by our parents, at school and in the news, that those were the sorts of things that happened in communist countries.
I dislike justice on commission. In Alberta private companies are paid a percent of the take to enforce photo radar. Why would a judge ever believe testimony from a rent a cop paid by commission. My default belief is that someone paid for testimony is saying whatever it takes to please whoever is writing the cheque regardless of the truth.
I won’t fly into the US these days because I don’t want to deal with the TSA. There are many states with these civil forfeiture laws – Texas and Louisiana are among the most egregious offenders – and I don’t plan to visit them again, much as I’d like to see Mardi Gras one more time. Now, OK is off the list as well.
Pretty soon there’s going to be no places left to visit in America. Pity.
So………arbitrarily taking a suspect’s money FOREVER before a determination of guilt by a judge or a jury
of one’s peers. Outright and bald THEFT.
This happens in Canada as well; only here it isn’t money, but they break into your house and steal your legally registered and stored firearms for “safety reasons” because of a flood.
Tyranny by a thousand cuts. Slice, slice.
Just a gentle reminder…only the “elite” of communist countries have any money to seize.
This is a power grab by the “elite” to bring us closer to the general population having no money, but just becoming economic cattle.
Never forget the decision to do so rests with the cop himself, and they do so, and they love it… especially when they do not feel sufficiently respected, worthless jackbooted thugs abusing the system one and all, no exceptions.
It is a novel and disturbing acceleration of civil forfeiture. The courts never should have allowed police and politicians to take property without a conviction. It has corrupted police departments in the US. In fact, law enforcement now takes more money and property than criminals in the US. This technology will ensure that legal robbery will become increasingly predatory. Eventually, citizens will have insist politicians shut the racket down.
http://reason.com/archives/2015/11/27/cops-now-take-more-than-robbers
Did anyone notice this tidbit – “the state is paying ERAD Group Inc., $5,000 for the software and scanners, then 7.7 percent of all the cash forfeited through the courts to the highway patrol”. Just seems that the incentives are incredibly perverse for all involved.
There is good reason for calling them ‘pigs’
“Why haven’t judges stopped this eons ago?”
My guess? Because everybody is typing instead getting angry and doing something constructive. No different here.
The British may still have common law. The Canadian legal industry replaced Common Law with Statute law some time ago. No doubt a great coup for Judges and lawyers. Our Canadian Constitution was written by lawyers, for lawyers.
The police know damned well real criminals don’t use bank accounts. Their kickbacks from the local crime syndicates are always paid in cash.
If this isn’t a great justification to use Bitcoin, I don’t know what would be.
Not only do they break into your house and seize your possessions, they also in many cases without benefit of trial, or due process, seize cars, boats, ATV’s and snow machines, for suspected crimes. We already convict people, by appointed, unelected tribunals, of thought crimes.
Today, in Canada, there is no such thing as presumed innocent. We are presumed guilty and the onus is upon the charged to prove their innocence. We, the naïve and the duped, have allowed this to happen. This is a result of failing to respond to the oft used argument, “If you have nothing to hide, why are you against it?” It is a failure of the people to respond to the soft tyranny of “progressivism” which has slowly expanded it’s definition to include the vulgar and the profane.
We have no one to blame but ourselves.
This is one of those laws that some naive citizens thought would only be used against organized crime,and that is how it was sold. The “law and order” types cheered loudly,and replied to my criticisms with,” if you don’t break the law,you have nothing to fear”, one of the most naive statements I have ever heard.
I have been reading articles at U.S. sites for at least three years detailing how several States are doing the same, bolstering their operating budgets by seizing money and assets under the CF law.
Alberta signed on to this just after there was some publicity in Vancouver when the owner of an apartment building had his property seized because some renters had a grow-op in their apartment. This was about two years ago.Apparently these laws are on the books in SEVEN Provinces.
The situation in the U.S. has gotten so bad that some police departments can’t make their budgets without asset seizure. This will soon come to Canada as our corrupt Provincial pols desperately try to find enough money to operate their departments.
Gotta keep the government’s private armies happy or all hell could break loose.
http://www.civilforfeiture.ca/about/
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/b-c-s-civil-forfeiture-office-can-seize-and-sell-citizens-property-without-so-much-as-a-criminal-charge-being-laid
Good expose of B.C.’s law from a 2014 article at NP.
Oh yes, never forget that we live in a Free Country.
“Why haven’t judges stopped this eons ago?”
Because law and order morons continue insisting that cops are not the enemy and if you have done nothing wrong you have no reason to fear them.
The final socialist takeover of economies are complete with the elimination of cash money.
Reminds mo of Rick and Captain Renault in ”Casablanca.”
Captain Renault: Rick, there are many exit visas sold in this café, but we know that ”you’ve” never sold one. That is the reason we permit you to remain open.
Rick: Oh? I thought it was because I let you win at roulette.
Captain Renault: That is another reason.
It is illegal. The statute in Ontario passed by the McGuinty government on speed racing was struck down by the Superior Court for precisely this reason. The police are there to enforce the law only. It is the courts which determine guilt or innocence and any associated penalties with the former.
I remember thinking that “RIDE” units in Ontario were much like the “show me your papers” laws of the Germans and Soviets. I lived downtown Toronto for 20 years and they would have a ride unit set up with 8 policemen and a block away there would be a stabbing. What’s more important? How long before the police are investigating global warming crimes and ignoring rapes and murders just down the street?
“Just another banana republic. Why haven’t judges stopped this eons ago?”
Kickbacks? Just a guess.
about 3 months ago, I shared a story with a christian buddy during our weekly meetings at a variety of local coffee shops.
a vision, albeit a split second, (that’s the speed at which the Spirit speaks), a vision, came with a twinge of shock, a vision, of hundreds of dead cops all over the streets. I took it to mean an insurrection fueled by 2 things: THIS kind of massive unwarranted (pun intended) abuse, and the preponderance of firearms the USA is famous for.
Ive learned to pay attention to the hunches and impressions and various indicators. not perfect, but more accurate than random change.
migawd, WHO in their friggin right mind in Oklahoma could put this abomination in place, and how long will it take to dismantle? how many citizens will be stripped of their LEGITIMATE property before the ‘3 strikes’ mentality is reversed? musta been a pretty big bandwagon to ram this thru. how many republicans were behind it?
anyway SDAers, feel free to put yer hand up to show your unwavering support for the bys and gals in bloo.
If you do a search on the company that makes the card reader machines, they are a subsidiary of the Department of Homeland Security. If you go to the DHS S&T site, you’ll see a whole bunch of other technologies being developed to eliminate the privacy and wealth of citizens.
https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology/prepaid-card-reader-aids-seizing-fraudulent-cards
“No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”
…nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law”
Constitution? What Constitution? America’s is an Illegitimate government.
Don’t forget Pelosi’s response to being asked if the Constitution permitted Obamacare.
“Seriously? Seriously?”
Based on their actions, to these types of people the Constitution is a joke that’s best forgotten.
The idiots for the infamous 9th Circus Court of assclowns has ruled you dont have any 2nd Amendment rights outside your home Yeah leave it to the nations most overturned court to make such a stupid ruling these idiot judges should’nt be allowed to judge a flower show
“Because law and order morons continue insisting that cops are not the enemy and if you have done nothing wrong you have no reason to fear them.”
The law and order morons are the minority around here. Everybody I talk to knows that all enforcement and regulatory arms of the state – cops, environment, OSPCA, etc. – are way out of control. But the great herd of sheep does nothing but bleat and type – that’s the problem.
We have a hard time rounding up a dozen guys to back up landowners when they’re threatened by an OSPCA/cops raid. Everyone lies down in the long grass and hopes the long noses don’t sniff them out. To hell with their neighbours.
I mentioned that the cops were part of the entitled class in one of your earlier articles “A tax by any other name” and I was called a Leftist loon. The question I posed then and that I pose now to you cuckservatives…is what are YOU going to do about it? Because it is the money you pay in taxes (from the jobs you crow about having)that pay these police officers to steal your things. As I have said before, I have more respect for those on the Left and the Muzzies because they riot and scare the bejeezus out of the cops and the politicians enough for them to change policy. Cuckservatives send “strongly worded” letters to the editors..but when the time comes to man the barricades they ALWAYS hide behind “I’ve got a job and I’m too busy to protest.” And by protest I mean the stuff that happens in places like the Paris banlieus, Ferguson, etc…not the pussy stand around parliament/city hall with a bunch of placards “protest”.