Modern Medicine?

Freespeechers Gain of Function Little Known Facts Safe and Effective 55 Comments

In this intriguing interview, Dr. John Campbell interviews Australian immunologist Dr. Robert Clancy about another drug that was slammed as ineffective and dangerous when used for the treatment of Covid: hydroxychloroquine. As with so many other pandemic measures, it seems to have fallen prey to the politicization of medicine.

As Dr. Clancy says, “I could not understand why there was a reaction against using a drug outside of its normal indications because we never seen Covid before at a time when people in nursing homes were dying [at] five, six, seven percent mortality rate and here we had a drug it couldn’t do any harm.”
“…it fitted the the politics at the time which was we have no treatment, stay at home until

55 Replies to “Modern Medicine?”

  1. No one was dying in nursing homes from the non-existent threat named Covid.

    Until they were given vaccines.

    Then they started dropping like flies.

  2. If there was another effective treatment, they couldn’t get the “vaccine” on to the market. That’s the rule and therefore any other effective treatment had to be ridiculed and cancelled.

    1. And alla unDORK (AKA -unme) was the bought and paid for shill who denigrated HCQ in here.

    1. Good call. Just about all of the early deaths in nursing homes were from bacterial pneumonia and/or sepsis and deemed death by COVID. This will happen when you deny 80-year-olds+ common therapeutics and prophylaxis to prevent that from happening. News flash, just about everyone that age will develop pneumonia and/or sepsis if infected with a cold or flu virus and do nothing. This is where informed consent died, no one was given the choice.

  4. Hydroxychloroquine is not some harmless drug. It can have serious side effects, including fatality or blindness. Thus it should only be used when proven beneficial.

    In the beginning, treatment with it was allowed for COVID, as no one was sure if it was effective. But as the studies rolled in showing that it was not, the only responsible thing was to bar its use.

      1. Thanks for an example of one the many studies, perhaps one of hundreds that you refer to, that were designed to fail to show the contribution of HCQ in mitigating Covid.

        It was widely criticized because it omitted zinc as a component.

        1. That’s what I find with fans of Ivermectin and HCQ. There’s always something extra thing that the failed studies neglected. If only they had tried some secret formula, it would have worked like a charm.

    2. Blah, blah, blah …

      Alle Dinge sind Gift, und nichts ist ohne Gift; allein die Dosis macht, dass ein Ding kein Gift ist.
      All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison.
      —Paracelsus, 1538

      Everything is a poison in its own right. Discover the appropriate dosage it can be therapeutic. In the right dosage for the appropriate amount of time HCQ can help against Covid. In the inappropriate dosage applied too often, a magical vaccine can be a poison as shown by the excess deaths being demonstrated due to Covid vaccines.

      Our so called betters by excluding HCQ from the range of treatments caused the premature deaths of untold numbers of citizens who they were supposed to protect. They failed us. We failed by blindly following their faulty advice. Public Health was wrong on so many things

      1. “Our so called betters by excluding HCQ from the range of treatments caused the premature deaths of untold numbers of citizens who they were supposed to protect.”

        Um, no. There have been hundreds of studies of HCQ for treating COVID, and the verdict is that it’s of no help, and people being really, really convinced that it is does not make it so.

        That’s what the above video obfuscates. It wasn’t just three major studies that found it didn’t work, it was endless studies.

        1. Not three, but hundreds, nay countless studies. Really?

          One can design a study to demonstrate any desired outcome. That’s what was done in many of those “countless studies”.

          The purpose of HCQ was not to cure Covid, it’s purpose was to act as an ionosphere to get zinc into cells which in simple terms stopped the reproduction of the virus. There are many other candidate materials that promoted zinc absorption. HCQ was inexpensive, available, safe in correct usage and effective in many instances. Did it work in all instances, clearly no. But then, that is true for many therapeutic regimes. What’s important is to have a range of options and not restrict choices to a singular option that was novel, unproven and ultimately shown to be inadequately tested, ineffective and unsafe.

    3. “In the beginning, treatment with it was allowed for COVID, as no one was sure if it was effective. But as the studies rolled in showing that it was not, the only responsible thing was to bar its use.”

      WHY?

      Like Ivermectin and most other common drugs, HCQ is totally safe when used at the recommended dosage…so why try to ban it? Why not ban Midol, Tylenol, Ibuprofen and cough syrup, then? They have all killed people. Why the double standard?

      1. Here’s the stated funding for the above article: NONE.

        Once again, we have this bizarre phenomenon of people being really, really certain that some treatment works when they have no evidence AT ALL that it does.

    2. HCQ and ivermection work. Only idiots think otherwise, no matter how many letters the idiots have after their names.

      1. Ivermectin and HCQ are over the counter meds in most of Africa.
        Because they work, and are safe.

        1. … because Africa has such high standards of medicine.

          HCQ is NOT safe. Taking too high of a dosage can cause fatal heart failure. Taking it for too long can cause blindness. And taking it at the same time as certain other medicines can have an array of serious side effects.

          Which is why it should NOT be over the counter.

          1. All drugs should be over the counter. It’s called liberty. Caveat Emptor. No one should be compelled to outsource their lives to a state-regulated and intimidated guild.

          2. Taking too much Vitamin A can kill you too. So can taking too much zinc, copper, iron, selenium, etc. Yet, in trace quantities, they are essential mineral nutrients.
            Taking one sleeping pill is a benefit for many people. Taking the whole bottle is stupid.
            Are you really that naive, DEAD RAT?
            Hope you have all 8 jabs, by the way.
            Tick TOCK, Tick TOCK.

          3. John:

            Hydromorphone is a painkiller seven times more powerful than morphine that allows terminal cancer patients to spend their last days relatively lucid and painfree. It’s on the World Health Organization’s list of Essential Medicines.

            It is also highly addictive and has many possible side effects. Misused, it can cause death. Should that be over the counter?

          4. DanBC:

            It’s not just a matter of dosage.

            There are many drugs that must not be used in combination with certain other drugs. HCQ is one of those. Doctors and pharmacists are trained to know what combinations are potentially dangerous, and so protect the patient. Average citizens do not have that knowledge.

          5. Killer
            All drugs means all drugs should be available to purchase by adults subject to the discretion of and freedom of sellers who chose not to offer certain drugs and to certain individuals (right to choose to discriminate against (not sell to) obvious screw-ups or the mentally handicapped). It is the responsibility of free born adult citizens to know what they are buying and ingesting and at what dosage. Doctors, and or Pharmacists, freely acting as true professionals should be there to advise and recommend. Argumentum ad absurdum is no reason to maintain the nanny-fascist state now partnered with big pharma. Laissez-nous faire.

          6. John:

            Including hydromorphone, a highly addictive (but medically useful) opiate?

          7. Killer
            Yes, including morphine, likely much less dangerous than the shit the screw-ups are buying on the street or what the governments are handing out to screw-ups. You’re free to buy arsenic now. Should we not lock that down to prevent everyone from running out and ODing on it? How about criminalizing the jumping off of cliffs? That’s called argumentum ad absurdum and it doesn’t wash.

          8. John:

            You stated that you would’t allow the incompetent to buy drugs over the counter. How would you separate the competent from the incompetent?

          10. So anything short of radical liberatarianism means “compulsion is your thing.”

            Okay, you go do you. Most of the populace — even conservatives — don’t mind the government putting reasonable guard rails up.

          11. It seems to be your opinion to leave the causation heart problems to reliable things like “safe and effective” Covid vaccines. After all, it seems you can take many of them. Maybe even one every month. /s

            HCQ isn’t the only answer, there are many. What was scandalous was that it excluded in favour of poorly tested, ineffective and, now being realized, unsafe Covid vaccines.

          12. That’s why Conservatives are fatally compromised libertarians. “Reasonable guardrails” eventually become Gulags where more than half the population willingly enters the cattle chute. Only a conservative would consider the term radical libertarian a surrogate for libertarian.

            “as soon as you allow politicians determine that which can be bought and sold, the first thing bought and sold will always be politicians.” – El Gato Malo

          13. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody considers their own political beliefs the One True Religion, and other schools, no matter how closely aligned, to be horribly misguided.

      2. And why do you think HCQ works? What is your evidence?

        Because there are endless scientific papers that found it does not.

          1. So the guy who constantly asks “What is the evidence?” is dumb as a bag of rocks, huh?

            A few things. First, the blog owner has asked that people not insult others. I recommend you follow that, but it’s entirely up to you.

            Second, there is no good evidence that HCQ is useful for COVID, and plenty of evidence that it is not. Not even the above video presents evidence for it. The only way people can believe that it works is by taking a massive leap of faith. My guess why people do that is that they love running with the pack, but they haven’t seriously thought it through.

          2. Methinks You doth protest too much.
            -Hamlet, Shakespeare.

            For an alleged “conservative”, you sure are a Nannystate Karen.

          3. “So the guy who constantly asks “What is the evidence?” is dumb as a bag of rocks, huh?

            A few things. First, the blog owner has asked that people not insult others. I recommend you follow that, but it’s entirely up to you.”

            Stop insulting our collective intelligence, then.

          4. “Stop insulting our collective intelligence, then.”

            Don’t read my posts if you don’t like them. It’s not difficult.

        2. “And why do you think HCQ works? What is your evidence?

          Because there are endless scientific papers that found it does not.”

          And many others that found the opposite….not to mention the documented experiences of India and other countries (with both HCQ and Ivermectin) that cannot be explained away by the spin doctors.

          The real question here is WHY ARE YOU SO EASILY TRIGGERED by any mention of it? You’re like the idiot Allan S when anyone mentions election fraud or the dim-witted hatemonger Colonialista/Surfer on Ukraine. It has become more and more obvious as time goes on that you put way, way too much time and effort into this *every time it comes up* to NOT have some kind of vested interest in it. There is far too much evidence already out there (and more coming all the time) for this NOT to be debated in public, but you flip out at the mere mention of such investigations.

          (“Methinks he doth protest too much”)

          You have doctors on your side? So do we.

          You have scientists on your side? So do we.

          As for the NEJM, the Lancet, the BMA and all the other organizations you seem to worship like they were churches…it’s a funny thing, reputations; they take a long time to build but not so long to destroy, and *every one of those organizations* has already been caught promoting lies (accidentally or otherwise) and spreading disinformation (some more than once). Oh, they ‘apologize’, all right…but the damage is done. Their biases and prejudices are obvious and their word is NOT credible anymore. Not until they do something about the ridiculous ‘PAL review’ system that allows corporations with enough money to corrupt and control their messaging.

          1. The question is why are you guys so easily triggered by me?

            I’m polite — even (usually) when insulted — and I back up my allegations with evidence. You guys generally are not and do not.

          2. I’m sure there are some studies that have found some benefit to HCQ. Given the number of studies done (in the hundreds), that would seem inevitible. But the vast preponderance of studies did not find that, and more to the point, the better designed studies (large scale, controlled, double blind) did not.

            In regards to India, they dropped HCQ and Ivermectin from their COVID treatment protocol in May 2021, so even they don’t think they work.

          3. “As for the NEJM, the Lancet, the BMA and all the other organizations you seem to worship like they were churches”

            You’re making it up wholesale. I never said everything published in these journals is God’s word. I am aware of the deficiencies of modern scientific publishing — given that I am a (nonmedical) researcher myself — and I have stated that repeatedly.

            I do say, however, that it is vastly more trustworthy than what the anti-vaxxers base their conclusions on, which is often woefully ill-informed and laughably inadequate, if they’re able to articulate their reasons at all.

  6. In the Spanish flu 100 years earlier quinine was the go to drug. I discovered that in reviewing thousands of WWI files. Hydroxychloroquine is sold in much of the world without prescription and everyone is on it. Maybe not as dangerous as some would have us believe.

      1. “While cases appear to have fallen in Uttar Pradesh, it’s not clear why. There is no scientific, randomized controlled study showing that ivermectin led to a reduction in the spread of the virus in Uttar Pradesh. The available research regarding the drug’s use to prevent or treat the virus is either unreliable or inconclusive. Scientists have said that more study is necessary.”

        So…”move along, nothing to see here…”, right, KM?

        Must have been a MIRACLE than caused the dramatic drop in COVID deaths in the one Indian province that distributed Ivermectin to their population, is that it?

        (funny, I never took you for a religious zealot…)

        The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

        1. Did I say that? Sounds like something I would say. It must have been a while ago.

          At any rate, India dropped HCQ and Ivermectin from their COVID treatment protocol in May 2021. It seems ultimately even they were not convinced.

          But you’re misapplying Occam’s razor. When there are countless plausible reasons for a certain event, you don’t blindly take the simplest one (or in this case, the one you prefer) because you’ll likely be wrong. Rather you start doing experiments to starting winnowing the wheat from the chaff.

          1. “At any rate, India dropped HCQ and Ivermectin from their COVID treatment protocol in May 2021. ”
            Yes, AFTER the fact.

            “It seems ultimately even they were not convinced.”

            Yeah, not really. You make it sound as if Uttar Pradesh wasn’t part of India:

            https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indias-ivermectin-blackout/article_e3db8f46-f942-11eb-9eea-77d5e2519364.html

            I personally suspect that a lot of money changed hands, or Big Pharma had a sudden change of heart and started providing their ‘vaccine’ for free…or maybe enough lives were saved in Uttar Pradesh (as opposed to the HUGE INCREASE in death rates in the other Indian states) for people to develop enough immunity that they just no longer *needed* the Ivermectin anymore.

            At any rate, neither you nor the NIH, CDC, FDA, or WHO can dispute the actual numbers, nor can you come up with a plausible explanation as to what exactly saved all those lives (pre-vaccination) if it wasn’t Ivermectin.

            (read some of the comments as well…you might learn something…)

  8. When I travelled to South Africa on two occasions I was prescribed hydroxychloroquine both times as a prophylactic for malaria. One tablet a day. At no time did the doctor mention that it was a dangerous drug that could kill me or cause me to go blind.

    1. Indeed. vey safe, but could be lethal if taken in large, unusual dosages. But then again a 100 oranges a day would kill you too, or smoking three packs every day, or even drinking 25 glasses of milk a day. Moderation in everything. Killer kind of misses thee point here. Everything would kill you if not used appropriately.

      People assume common sense is common, but it’s not, it’s a misnomer.

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