They certainly do. I will help ballot harvest for them in my area.
One thing that has to be fixed – Quebec has almost twice the federal representation per capita than Alberta. For example: 30000 people per MP vs 50000 in Alberta. Increase the number of Alberta MPs or reduce the number of Quebec MPs.
The best way to reduce the number of Quebec MPs is to send the entire lot packing. G’bye.
Your numbers are far distant from the reality.
Alberta currently has 4.4 million citizens, and 34 MP’s for 130k citizens per MP
BC currently has 5.1 million citizens, and 42 MP’s for 121k citizens per MP
Quebec has 8.6 million citizens, and 78 MP’s for 110k citizens per MP
Ontario has 14.7 million citizens, and 121 MP’s for 121k citizens per MP
The real problems are Sask, Manitoba, and all of the permanent welfare havens in the Atlantic provinces.
Saskatchewan has 1.2 million citizens, and 14 MP’s for 86k citizens per MP
Manitoba has 1.4 million citizens, and 14 MP’s for 100k citizens per MP
Nova Scotia has 980k citizens, and 11 MP’s for 89k citizens per MP
New Brunswick has 781k citizens, and 10 MP’s for 78k citizens per MP
Newfoundland has 522k citizens, and 7 MP’s for 74k citizens per MP
and the winner in the bullshit olympics is:
Prince Edward Island, where 20% or their government tax revenue is from the producing provinces of Canada via the “equalization program” …
P.E.I. has 160k citizens, and 4 MP’s for 40k citizens per MP
I think the way out from this idiocy is in the year after each census, give each province 1 MP for each 100k citizens, and if your hapless province has 180k citizens you’ll get 1 MP, and your second MP when you convince 200k + citizens to live there.
A good alternative would be to simply make PEI into a couple of counties of Nova Scotia. No, I don’t care if they don’t like it.
The numbers for Senators are equally messed up:
Alberta has 1 Senator for 733k citizens
BC has 1 Senator for 850k citizens
PEI has 1 Senator for 40k citizens
The other provinces are varied between these ratios.
Democracy delayed, is democracy denied.
Not even close to being fair, either in representation by population, nor in representation by province (as the US has with 2 Senators / state).
Canada’s representation is broken, it’s better for Alberta to separate, and Old Canada can take the next +150 years trying to figure it out. I don’t care how they do it, just don’t ask Alberta to re-join until they’ve made if fair for everyone.
And then have a look at Quebec having 3 seats on the SCOC for 22% of the population, while the west has more people, and no guarantee of 3, and Ontario have many more people…
Marc Canada has a broken political system! It can’t be fixed !!!
Options for the west is a separate country! Sask and Manitoba are not the problem but can be part of the solution!
Representation by population worked in a small country like Britain not Canada
I’m not advocating for Old Canada to repair the damaged system.
I’m advocating for Alberta to fully separate and leave.
The other western provinces can leave with if they vote for it, and we shouldn’t be swayed by promises from Old Canada while they’ve had 150 years to repair a damaged system.
And if the current PM is saying Alberta is sowing division upon Canada, there are many valid reasons for this.
It’s true, for one…
An interesting side bar to this and I don’t know their accuracy——About 36% in Alberta for separation and in Saskatchewan 52% according to reports!
The concept for one province to leave is possibly easier—-with the “Clarity Act” But I feel our strength comes in numbers!!!!
The hardest sell will be in British Columbia. But if we go it alone Saskatchewan will leave first !
“The hardest sell will be in British Columbia.”
I’ll take the eastern half of BC for western separation, they are primarily federal conservatives.
Leave the eastern half to the ChiComs they own it already, and then build a huge border wall isolating Vancouver lower mainland from the west.
The biggest stupidity was the elder Turdeau put in the Constitution that a province’s MPs could never decrease. If the Conservatives win they should raise MPs to 400 by raising the number in growing provinces. Then they should try to amend the Constitution to decrease the number to 300 after the subsequent election. If that doesn’t work raise the number to 600. The stupidity of an ever growing Parliament is senseless.
If Alberta had as many MP’s per capita as PEI has, we’d have 110 MP’s and perhaps 109 would be Conservatives.
No, I don’t care if the other provinces have a problem with this, they’ve been silent on this front as long as it’s just Alberta that’s underrepresented.
After Alberta/Sask. separate, Old Canada will have lost easy access to their Pacific Ocean ports. We shouldn’t negotiate anything from a position of weakness, it’s Old Canada that’s lost access to BC.
I am from Osoyoos and I think we should be BC/ AB/SK/MB as I have lived in all 4 of these Province and YES we do think different from the Easterners….. we are I think SMARTER………….:) 🙂
Trying to come up with a workable solution ignores the real reason Canada was founded in the first place.
The folks in charge where afraid that if they didn’t the US would likely negotiate the vast frontier from Britain which would have ended “the system” that was working so well for them.
Since when we need more democracy? If anything we need less. Democracy is not an end in itself. We need a Pinochet in fact.
Marc,thanks for that post.I disagree that we need more MP’s in Canada, we should aim for one MP per 200,000 citizens. We need LESS government,not more,and why in hell do we have 8 more Senators than the USA which has nine times our population.
When you add in the Provincial governments,we are vastly over represented in government,or trough hogs,however you want to look at it. For instance :PEI has 28 MLA’s for a population of about the same as Kelowna.
In B.C. we have 87 MLA’s for a pop. of 5.1 million.
California has 80 legislators and 40 Senators, with six times our population and a vastly bigger GDP.
India has a total of 790 legislators in their parliament and Senate for a population of 1.353 billion.
Canada is trough hog country, with political Parties all complicit in increasing the number of their members to the exclusive club.
MORE government does NOT mean better government.
The point in my post was not to increase MPs. It was to increase the MPs to eliminate the advantage of decaying provinces. If we double the number of MPs giving all provinces equal constituency populations then they might accept an amendment to cut the number of MPs in half. Note that Parliament can amend the Constitution to increase the number of constituencies but reducing PEI’s advantage requires approval of all provinces. Taking away their advantage might make PEI more agreeable. While we’re at it, give the territories a single senator and MP for all three. The territories plus PEI have 7 senators and MPs when they deserve 2.
Don Morris, Completely agree with more gov’t is not better gov’t.
200k citizens per MP is a fine number. I point out Alberta having similar representation to PEI of 1 MP per 40k citizens as being ridiculous.
Colonialista, I’m not advocating for “more democracy”. I’m saying because the current system is broken (my 1 vote is NOT equal to 1 vote from anyone in the lesser populated provinces, especially PEI) and Old Canada hasn’t repaired it in the past 153 years, we should separate.
I have no problem with General Pinochet, he saved his country from becoming a shithole.
Separation is the way forward. Before Trudeau socializes the debt and debases the dollar.
Quebec population divided by MPs 104 672
Alberta Population divided by MPs 119 623
Starting with P.E.I. = 4 MPs and go from there, Rep by Pop. The West has been the Golden Goose but under represented in Parliament.
Let’s have some real democracy. Any one requiring special status can go it alone.
just cut transfer payments, problem solved
Actually they deserve a third chance. Their first attempt was in 1980. Too bad the referendum didn’t pass.
Don’t you mean a third chance?
Dey got turd chance right now, wid de supremely talented peoplekind leader.
Second or third or even a fourth chance as long as we can all vote for them to leave.
I’ll vote after I’m dead!
They never did want to leave. Just an extortion play.
Yep.
Can’t we just kick them out ?
As long as they take (*&*#@ Ottawa with them, I’m good with it.
Getting rid of Quebec would definitely improve Ottawa, a lot less of that french shit to care about here.
Maybe they could affiliate with Scotland. You know, share a currency, military, health care…..
Ha, ha, ha, the Auld Alliance reborn.
Quebec will separate only if it still can use currency, passports and – most crucially – Albertan money.
I don’t think that they truly understand what separation means.
Let us go one step further and sell Quebec to the Americans. I’m sure that they can use the aluminum.
After expending all the Islamists in their midst to ward off the Yankees, Quebeckers will have no choice but to live under the American yoke and pine for the days when they had only contempt for everyone in Canada except them.
They can hang this on Trudeau and let prison justice happen.
Always a good time for a Neverendum.
I was so disappointed back then . I really wanted to see how it would play out. Would Quebec, like a snarling dog you turn loose from the leash, go “oh, just kidding!”?
How about tell the Quebecois, you are free to leave anytime, you just don’t get to take the land with you? Do it yourself diaspora.
Oh they can have Lower Canada. Rupert’s Land though is off the bloody table.
I actually demonstrated in Montreal with a sign that said “You say Oui, We keep the Cree.” The Cree had their own separate referendum saying if Quebec left, they would separate off Rupertsland and remain in Canada. It pissed off a lot of the French. It would be ricidulously easy to simply extend that northern section of the Trans Canada right along the Rupertsland border to Labrador. Plus then we keep the hydro. And that is what the original agreement bringing Quebec into Canada said.
To me the whole referendum is like the unbalanced attention seeking person who calls up a spouse and says “I just swallowed a bunch of sleeping because of you.”
Who cares about Quebec? I’d rather see Alberta leave (I’ll be your first immigrant–from Canada). I live in Ottawa, not by choice, and I regularly refer to Hull as the “enemy side of the river.”
Yeah, what the hell is wrong with Kenny? The writing has been on the wall since 1980. Bring on A2A. Cut the west free. Starve the Lower Mainland of BC. Rail and grains to Valdez and tell Sock Bouy to pound sand on his green dreams. We can make HIM go green, by cutting the fuel supply off. That’s what they want anyway, so do it. Same with BC’s Horgan. They’re green with envy.
PO’ed – You spelled Whoregan rong!
I was in Fort St. John earlier this week. I went to an insurance broker to get a permit for my truck and, during the proceedings, I mentioned the election.
The response was several long faces.
I apologize profusely for that gaffe. Sorry, it won’t happen again.
Most I know call it “The Dark Side”.
I saw a headline over at http://www.msn.ca in which Prime Minister Trudeau says that Alberta is stoking the flames of divisiveness. I did not open the article. I truly feel that Ontario, Quebec, the “fish” provinces are like abusive husbands and that Alberta and Saskatchewan are like abused wives. AB/SK think that if we kowtow to the others, they will like us more. It just makes them despise us more and want to hit us again, after they take our money.
As for Manitoba, BC and the territories – I say “meh!”.
I just hope that the next time Kaybek wants to hold a referendum to seperate, EVERY Canadian gets a vote.
No, I wouldn’t accept other Canadians being permitted to vote on Alberta’s future, especially knowing they’ll vote to keep Alberta’s contributions to Old Canada.
I know there’s a part of the SCOC ruling on this, that all of Canada gets to vote on this topic for any province that wants to leave. The SCOC is wrong, nobody “asks for permission to separate”.
They simply vote on the topic, then stay, or leave, dependent upon the vote.
50% + 1 of the vote, is the only standard. A majority of the voters in that province that showed up that day.
Remind me, how many regiments does the SCOC command?
I’ve often said we seem to suffer something akin to battered spouse syndrome. We know we need to leave but are too damned scared of the unknown so we stay for more abuse. Those who support the abusers gaslight us on a regular basis.
Seems easy to forget that Ontario was Canada s cash cow for a long time before Alberta won the victims lottery. A lot of Provinces benefitted from the system that awarded mediocrity over resourcefulness, and most of them still do. I am 100% in favor of Ontario getting away from this Ponzi scheme called transfer payments and refuse to take any money from any other province. Transfer payments are nothing but enforced socialism that create a dependent group of Provinces that have zero desire or initiative to succeed by their own efforts.
Quebec leaving now would do SFA for Alberta’s situation this day. We need to leave confederation for our very survival!
Our main enemies reside east of the Alberta border. Manitoba is a friggin’ basket case – lots of potential but there is no intelligence from Winnipeg north. That includes Winnipeg itself! The NDPs in Sask got a bunch of votes, but the Saskatchewan Party is nothing but NDP lite! (Sorry Kate but that’s the way I see it. I have relatives all over the province.) Eg. Sask Power, Sask Tel, Sask everything.
As for BC., well Whoregan has his majority. Nice place to visit, but.
That leaves us here in Edmonton! I think we can deal with the local mess but we had better do it sooner rather than later.
That leaves us here in Edmonton! I think we can deal with the local mess but we had better do it sooner rather than later.
Now it’s the Rest of Canada’s turn to decide if Quebec can stay or not.
Can we vote to kick them out? We’re all pretty tired of paying the spoiled brats an allowance and then being forced to eat at the kids table ourselves?
Should be a sunset clause for provincial participation in this wonderful Confederation. Say vote yeah/no-way every 4 years to remain?
Remember when Premier Ralph Klein wanted Albertan’s opinions about what to do with the Alberta Heritage Trust Fund? And he gave Albertans their four opinions to choose from? Well, watch Premier Kenny try the same thing with next year’s equalization referendum. The wording of the referendum most likely won’t be what most Albertans want.
Wasn’t there supposed to be citizen initiated referendum legislation coming? If so, that is what we should be focusing on. The idea of running Wexit candidates federally is, quite frankly, stupid.
Yes, a FEDERAL separatist party is a complete oxymoron.
Marc in Calgary is absolutely and utterly correct. There is absolutely no reforming or changing this system. The only way forward is for the West to leave.
No ROC, you don’t have a choice or a vote in our future. You have been dictating to us and stealing from us for long enough.
We can choose to go our own way. It is our God given democratic right to do so. How we choose to proceed, whether through the formation of a new nation or joining the US, WE can decide upon. (Nov. 3rd will be a real watershed moment in that regard!)
F uk Quebek… Its really too bad those bigots didn’t have the guts to leave when they had the chance… alas Queerbek “separation” was simply a ploy for more autonomy and power which they got. Its like Peeair the Turdhole giving the FLQ everything they demanded in their ridiculous FLQ manifesto and calling it a “victory”… yeah a victory for the FLQ… This country does like to live the fantasy sold by the french language supremacists. IMO Alberta and Saskatchewan should get the heck out of this Post Nation State and pronto. A few more years and the Liberals will do to those Provinces what they did to BC… if you don’t want to be corrupted by the Laurentian scum and become a colony of Queerbek like BC then get out while the getting is good. Oh yeah… F uk Queerbek and the bigoted mafioso politicians. The so called threat of Queebek separation was a good way to destroy Canada as an English speaking Nation and put the french talking Queerbeker in charge… which was always the goal.
Oh Kate. Don’t do this to me.
You have me dreaming of Kamala going live from her basement on Tuesday night, drunk off her fat black arse, skipping the fig leaves of “money and the ethnic vote.”
I wonder how far MSNBC would get through “This ain’t fucking over, Hymies! My brothers know where you fucking live!” before they cut the mike in embarrassment.
To add to the fun, her Jewish spouse isn’t even dead and unable to explain why he married someone he knew, or should have known, to be a Jew-hating piece of trash from a tribe of half-witted peasants about 150 years overdue for the dustbin of North American history.
Les nègres blancs d’Amérique. A truer name was never given them.
Who cares about kweebec? Just have Alberta and Sask get on with it and put a dagger in this diseased dominion. I have 5 more years left here, and as an eternally grateful dual, I’m headed for Florida, but i would sure buy popcorn and enjoy the show.
K-Bec to the West of Canada; “I fart in your general direction you electric donkey bottom biting biters.”
The slogan on their license plates is “Je me souviens” (I remember). What is Quebec remembering? I suspect it’s that it lost on the Plains of Abraham and it spent all that time since then getting its revenge.
We’re not making equalization payments to Quebec. We’re paying reparations to those entitled freeloaders.
Oh. Hey. I’ve got an idea. Why doesn’t Canada just separate from Quebec?
Deplorable, I’m sorry but you have the translation wrong. It means “I can’t fucking drive”.
I got in huge trouble with my French Canadian sister in law for saying that if Quebec truly wants to separate that they should just let us all vote on it. She hasn’t spoken to me since.
Hahaha. Gold!
I’ll borrow that one, if it pleases you.
mhb23re
THEY DESERVE A SECOND CHANCE
Indeed !
Please give ME a vote this time.
I think many of us here agree it is time to separate, whether that just be AB or with SK or whatever other geographical region that wants to join. I would like to hear from all of you as to how we go about it. How do we make Jason Kenney (and/or Scott Moe) listen to us? Or do we find a way to go around around provincial politicians? What are credible ways of moving this forward? Who are some people that have the visibility in provincial circles to assist in moving this forward? (As you can see I have lots of questions and I am looking for answers.)
I’v listened to Newfbertans whine for 40 years now, just git on with it!
Time2go, what is missing is leadership. As I explained above (at about 3:22), I believe that Alberta has to go it alone. Whomever wants to follow can but we cannot try to create a huge unworkable conglomerate to start the movement. We need someone less than 70 years old (it’s going to take a few years for the dust to settle) and who is willing to extricate us from the present manure pile and set us on a path to self-determination.
The battles will be fierce! Try taking candy from a baby! And learn.
Try taking the/our wallet from the free-spenders in the east and see what the Hell happens! They are broke.
We in Alberta can afford everything we have now so far, BUT that cannot last. Ottawa is seeing to that! There will be upheaval but there will be huge opportunities.
We can do this thing!
We need a start and that start requires a leader and a committee of people to set some rules and goals. There will be some communication challenges but with the electronic tools available any resistance within the established media, electronic and otherwise the message can be distributed with minimal distortions.
To hell with Kenny and any of the other so called western political ‘leaders!’ Don’t even think of them! They are welded to their own agendas.
Go to the gym for an hour and this is what happens, somebody steals your thunder! But that’s quite alright because CRB expressed it far better than I ever could!
Time2Go, I know exactly how you feel. I too am wondering how to really get this ball rolling. I was hopeful that with Jay Hill taking on the leadership at Wexit that this would be the catalyst. Then I went to their website to donate and I see that they are planning on running candidates federally. My stomach turned, my mouth went dry and my visa card went back into my wallet. Super, just super, so we can split the intelligent vote and ensure Le Dauphin majority after majority after majority. Where is the plan to actually do what needs to be done?
I am still hopeful that Michelle Rempel or one of her crew will emerge as a beacon we fluttering moths could gather too. That still remains to be seen. Perhaps the next liarberal majority will bring the realization that our benighted Dominion is hopelessly lost.
Some on this board would say “Why don’t you do something instead of just talking about it!” and I certainly understand that. Maybe one day I, or some of our other SDA travellers could be that person. I am hopeful that a project I have been trying to get going on (forever!!!!) will come to fruition and that would allow me the springboard to actually put my money where my mouth is.
It is frustrating and a quandary
Who cares about Quexit. I already quexited in 1978.
We can’t afford these Que-Ont-Suckers.
Wexit now!
Queerbec will NEVER leave. Most of the land belongs to the Native Indians and they wont leave Canaduh!
Yes Alberta has to separate but dont hold your breath for Kenney to do a referendum on separation, the guy is a carpetbagger. Just waiting for his chance to run “Conservative’ federally. He might be an Albertan but in name only. Very disappointing! All his thunder during campaigning was jusT bovine excrement.
He was born in Ontario.
The headline should actually read “They deserve a THIRD chance.” Remember 1980?
Marc in Calgary makes some excellent points above about the makeup of the HoC, the Senate, and the SCC. Harper expanded the House by 30 seats, making it a much fairer distribution going forward for Alberta, BC and Ontario than the previous iteration. It’s far from perfect but at least now it’s a reasonably fair and workable system.
Senate distribution could be fixed by simply giving BC and Alberta 10 seats each, up from 6, while reducing Nova Scotia and New Brunswick to 6 seats each, down from 10. No other provinces or territories would be affected and the total number of seats would remain 105. Like the HoC reforms it’s not perfect but workable.
On the Supreme Court Quebec is guaranteed 3 seats by the constitution, so it’s much easier to go after the low-hanging fruit of Ontario’s non-guaranteed but de facto 3 seats. Ontario should get only 2 seats, BC, Alberta and Atlantic Canada 1 seat each, and 1 seat for Saskatchewan and Manitoba combined.
These reforms (the HoC one is already done) would give Alberta a roughly 10% share, and the West as a whole a roughly one-third share of the 3 most important federal institutions. These should be articulated by our leaders (Jason Kenney? Jay Hill?) as the MINIMUM demands of Alberta and the West, and if not met ASAP then it’s bye bye Canada.
They certainly do. I will help ballot harvest for them in my area.
One thing that has to be fixed – Quebec has almost twice the federal representation per capita than Alberta. For example: 30000 people per MP vs 50000 in Alberta. Increase the number of Alberta MPs or reduce the number of Quebec MPs.
The best way to reduce the number of Quebec MPs is to send the entire lot packing. G’bye.
Your numbers are far distant from the reality.
Alberta currently has 4.4 million citizens, and 34 MP’s for 130k citizens per MP
BC currently has 5.1 million citizens, and 42 MP’s for 121k citizens per MP
Quebec has 8.6 million citizens, and 78 MP’s for 110k citizens per MP
Ontario has 14.7 million citizens, and 121 MP’s for 121k citizens per MP
The real problems are Sask, Manitoba, and all of the permanent welfare havens in the Atlantic provinces.
Saskatchewan has 1.2 million citizens, and 14 MP’s for 86k citizens per MP
Manitoba has 1.4 million citizens, and 14 MP’s for 100k citizens per MP
Nova Scotia has 980k citizens, and 11 MP’s for 89k citizens per MP
New Brunswick has 781k citizens, and 10 MP’s for 78k citizens per MP
Newfoundland has 522k citizens, and 7 MP’s for 74k citizens per MP
and the winner in the bullshit olympics is:
Prince Edward Island, where 20% or their government tax revenue is from the producing provinces of Canada via the “equalization program” …
P.E.I. has 160k citizens, and 4 MP’s for 40k citizens per MP
The populations here at Wiki are a decade out of date:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Commons_of_Canada
I think the way out from this idiocy is in the year after each census, give each province 1 MP for each 100k citizens, and if your hapless province has 180k citizens you’ll get 1 MP, and your second MP when you convince 200k + citizens to live there.
A good alternative would be to simply make PEI into a couple of counties of Nova Scotia. No, I don’t care if they don’t like it.
The numbers for Senators are equally messed up:
Alberta has 1 Senator for 733k citizens
BC has 1 Senator for 850k citizens
PEI has 1 Senator for 40k citizens
The other provinces are varied between these ratios.
Democracy delayed, is democracy denied.
Not even close to being fair, either in representation by population, nor in representation by province (as the US has with 2 Senators / state).
Canada’s representation is broken, it’s better for Alberta to separate, and Old Canada can take the next +150 years trying to figure it out. I don’t care how they do it, just don’t ask Alberta to re-join until they’ve made if fair for everyone.
And then have a look at Quebec having 3 seats on the SCOC for 22% of the population, while the west has more people, and no guarantee of 3, and Ontario have many more people…
Marc Canada has a broken political system! It can’t be fixed !!!
Options for the west is a separate country! Sask and Manitoba are not the problem but can be part of the solution!
Representation by population worked in a small country like Britain not Canada
I’m not advocating for Old Canada to repair the damaged system.
I’m advocating for Alberta to fully separate and leave.
The other western provinces can leave with if they vote for it, and we shouldn’t be swayed by promises from Old Canada while they’ve had 150 years to repair a damaged system.
And if the current PM is saying Alberta is sowing division upon Canada, there are many valid reasons for this.
It’s true, for one…
An interesting side bar to this and I don’t know their accuracy——About 36% in Alberta for separation and in Saskatchewan 52% according to reports!
The concept for one province to leave is possibly easier—-with the “Clarity Act” But I feel our strength comes in numbers!!!!
The hardest sell will be in British Columbia. But if we go it alone Saskatchewan will leave first !
“The hardest sell will be in British Columbia.”
I’ll take the eastern half of BC for western separation, they are primarily federal conservatives.
https://www.cbc.ca/polopoly_fs/1.3279566!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg
Leave the eastern half to the ChiComs they own it already, and then build a huge border wall isolating Vancouver lower mainland from the west.
The biggest stupidity was the elder Turdeau put in the Constitution that a province’s MPs could never decrease. If the Conservatives win they should raise MPs to 400 by raising the number in growing provinces. Then they should try to amend the Constitution to decrease the number to 300 after the subsequent election. If that doesn’t work raise the number to 600. The stupidity of an ever growing Parliament is senseless.
If Alberta had as many MP’s per capita as PEI has, we’d have 110 MP’s and perhaps 109 would be Conservatives.
No, I don’t care if the other provinces have a problem with this, they’ve been silent on this front as long as it’s just Alberta that’s underrepresented.
After Alberta/Sask. separate, Old Canada will have lost easy access to their Pacific Ocean ports. We shouldn’t negotiate anything from a position of weakness, it’s Old Canada that’s lost access to BC.
I am from Osoyoos and I think we should be BC/ AB/SK/MB as I have lived in all 4 of these Province and YES we do think different from the Easterners….. we are I think SMARTER………….:) 🙂
Trying to come up with a workable solution ignores the real reason Canada was founded in the first place.
The folks in charge where afraid that if they didn’t the US would likely negotiate the vast frontier from Britain which would have ended “the system” that was working so well for them.
Since when we need more democracy? If anything we need less. Democracy is not an end in itself. We need a Pinochet in fact.
Marc,thanks for that post.I disagree that we need more MP’s in Canada, we should aim for one MP per 200,000 citizens. We need LESS government,not more,and why in hell do we have 8 more Senators than the USA which has nine times our population.
When you add in the Provincial governments,we are vastly over represented in government,or trough hogs,however you want to look at it. For instance :PEI has 28 MLA’s for a population of about the same as Kelowna.
In B.C. we have 87 MLA’s for a pop. of 5.1 million.
California has 80 legislators and 40 Senators, with six times our population and a vastly bigger GDP.
India has a total of 790 legislators in their parliament and Senate for a population of 1.353 billion.
Canada is trough hog country, with political Parties all complicit in increasing the number of their members to the exclusive club.
MORE government does NOT mean better government.
The point in my post was not to increase MPs. It was to increase the MPs to eliminate the advantage of decaying provinces. If we double the number of MPs giving all provinces equal constituency populations then they might accept an amendment to cut the number of MPs in half. Note that Parliament can amend the Constitution to increase the number of constituencies but reducing PEI’s advantage requires approval of all provinces. Taking away their advantage might make PEI more agreeable. While we’re at it, give the territories a single senator and MP for all three. The territories plus PEI have 7 senators and MPs when they deserve 2.
Don Morris, Completely agree with more gov’t is not better gov’t.
200k citizens per MP is a fine number. I point out Alberta having similar representation to PEI of 1 MP per 40k citizens as being ridiculous.
Colonialista, I’m not advocating for “more democracy”. I’m saying because the current system is broken (my 1 vote is NOT equal to 1 vote from anyone in the lesser populated provinces, especially PEI) and Old Canada hasn’t repaired it in the past 153 years, we should separate.
I have no problem with General Pinochet, he saved his country from becoming a shithole.
Separation is the way forward. Before Trudeau socializes the debt and debases the dollar.
Quebec population divided by MPs 104 672
Alberta Population divided by MPs 119 623
Starting with P.E.I. = 4 MPs and go from there, Rep by Pop. The West has been the Golden Goose but under represented in Parliament.
Let’s have some real democracy. Any one requiring special status can go it alone.
just cut transfer payments, problem solved
Actually they deserve a third chance. Their first attempt was in 1980. Too bad the referendum didn’t pass.
Don’t you mean a third chance?
Dey got turd chance right now, wid de supremely talented peoplekind leader.
Second or third or even a fourth chance as long as we can all vote for them to leave.
I’ll vote after I’m dead!
They never did want to leave. Just an extortion play.
Yep.
Can’t we just kick them out ?
As long as they take (*&*#@ Ottawa with them, I’m good with it.
Getting rid of Quebec would definitely improve Ottawa, a lot less of that french shit to care about here.
Maybe they could affiliate with Scotland. You know, share a currency, military, health care…..
Ha, ha, ha, the Auld Alliance reborn.
Quebec will separate only if it still can use currency, passports and – most crucially – Albertan money.
I don’t think that they truly understand what separation means.
Let us go one step further and sell Quebec to the Americans. I’m sure that they can use the aluminum.
After expending all the Islamists in their midst to ward off the Yankees, Quebeckers will have no choice but to live under the American yoke and pine for the days when they had only contempt for everyone in Canada except them.
They can hang this on Trudeau and let prison justice happen.
Always a good time for a Neverendum.
I was so disappointed back then . I really wanted to see how it would play out. Would Quebec, like a snarling dog you turn loose from the leash, go “oh, just kidding!”?
How about tell the Quebecois, you are free to leave anytime, you just don’t get to take the land with you? Do it yourself diaspora.
Oh they can have Lower Canada. Rupert’s Land though is off the bloody table.
I actually demonstrated in Montreal with a sign that said “You say Oui, We keep the Cree.” The Cree had their own separate referendum saying if Quebec left, they would separate off Rupertsland and remain in Canada. It pissed off a lot of the French. It would be ricidulously easy to simply extend that northern section of the Trans Canada right along the Rupertsland border to Labrador. Plus then we keep the hydro. And that is what the original agreement bringing Quebec into Canada said.
To me the whole referendum is like the unbalanced attention seeking person who calls up a spouse and says “I just swallowed a bunch of sleeping because of you.”
Who cares about Quebec? I’d rather see Alberta leave (I’ll be your first immigrant–from Canada). I live in Ottawa, not by choice, and I regularly refer to Hull as the “enemy side of the river.”
Yeah, what the hell is wrong with Kenny? The writing has been on the wall since 1980. Bring on A2A. Cut the west free. Starve the Lower Mainland of BC. Rail and grains to Valdez and tell Sock Bouy to pound sand on his green dreams. We can make HIM go green, by cutting the fuel supply off. That’s what they want anyway, so do it. Same with BC’s Horgan. They’re green with envy.
PO’ed – You spelled Whoregan rong!
I was in Fort St. John earlier this week. I went to an insurance broker to get a permit for my truck and, during the proceedings, I mentioned the election.
The response was several long faces.
I apologize profusely for that gaffe. Sorry, it won’t happen again.
Most I know call it “The Dark Side”.
I saw a headline over at http://www.msn.ca in which Prime Minister Trudeau says that Alberta is stoking the flames of divisiveness. I did not open the article. I truly feel that Ontario, Quebec, the “fish” provinces are like abusive husbands and that Alberta and Saskatchewan are like abused wives. AB/SK think that if we kowtow to the others, they will like us more. It just makes them despise us more and want to hit us again, after they take our money.
As for Manitoba, BC and the territories – I say “meh!”.
I just hope that the next time Kaybek wants to hold a referendum to seperate, EVERY Canadian gets a vote.
No, I wouldn’t accept other Canadians being permitted to vote on Alberta’s future, especially knowing they’ll vote to keep Alberta’s contributions to Old Canada.
I know there’s a part of the SCOC ruling on this, that all of Canada gets to vote on this topic for any province that wants to leave. The SCOC is wrong, nobody “asks for permission to separate”.
They simply vote on the topic, then stay, or leave, dependent upon the vote.
50% + 1 of the vote, is the only standard. A majority of the voters in that province that showed up that day.
Remind me, how many regiments does the SCOC command?
I’ve often said we seem to suffer something akin to battered spouse syndrome. We know we need to leave but are too damned scared of the unknown so we stay for more abuse. Those who support the abusers gaslight us on a regular basis.
Seems easy to forget that Ontario was Canada s cash cow for a long time before Alberta won the victims lottery. A lot of Provinces benefitted from the system that awarded mediocrity over resourcefulness, and most of them still do. I am 100% in favor of Ontario getting away from this Ponzi scheme called transfer payments and refuse to take any money from any other province. Transfer payments are nothing but enforced socialism that create a dependent group of Provinces that have zero desire or initiative to succeed by their own efforts.
Quebec leaving now would do SFA for Alberta’s situation this day. We need to leave confederation for our very survival!
Our main enemies reside east of the Alberta border. Manitoba is a friggin’ basket case – lots of potential but there is no intelligence from Winnipeg north. That includes Winnipeg itself! The NDPs in Sask got a bunch of votes, but the Saskatchewan Party is nothing but NDP lite! (Sorry Kate but that’s the way I see it. I have relatives all over the province.) Eg. Sask Power, Sask Tel, Sask everything.
As for BC., well Whoregan has his majority. Nice place to visit, but.
That leaves us here in Edmonton! I think we can deal with the local mess but we had better do it sooner rather than later.
That leaves us here in Edmonton! I think we can deal with the local mess but we had better do it sooner rather than later.
And give up our solar farm?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6ZmsSEBQSo
Now it’s the Rest of Canada’s turn to decide if Quebec can stay or not.
Can we vote to kick them out? We’re all pretty tired of paying the spoiled brats an allowance and then being forced to eat at the kids table ourselves?
Should be a sunset clause for provincial participation in this wonderful Confederation. Say vote yeah/no-way every 4 years to remain?
Remember when Premier Ralph Klein wanted Albertan’s opinions about what to do with the Alberta Heritage Trust Fund? And he gave Albertans their four opinions to choose from? Well, watch Premier Kenny try the same thing with next year’s equalization referendum. The wording of the referendum most likely won’t be what most Albertans want.
Wasn’t there supposed to be citizen initiated referendum legislation coming? If so, that is what we should be focusing on. The idea of running Wexit candidates federally is, quite frankly, stupid.
Yes, a FEDERAL separatist party is a complete oxymoron.
Marc in Calgary is absolutely and utterly correct. There is absolutely no reforming or changing this system. The only way forward is for the West to leave.
No ROC, you don’t have a choice or a vote in our future. You have been dictating to us and stealing from us for long enough.
We can choose to go our own way. It is our God given democratic right to do so. How we choose to proceed, whether through the formation of a new nation or joining the US, WE can decide upon. (Nov. 3rd will be a real watershed moment in that regard!)
F uk Quebek… Its really too bad those bigots didn’t have the guts to leave when they had the chance… alas Queerbek “separation” was simply a ploy for more autonomy and power which they got. Its like Peeair the Turdhole giving the FLQ everything they demanded in their ridiculous FLQ manifesto and calling it a “victory”… yeah a victory for the FLQ… This country does like to live the fantasy sold by the french language supremacists. IMO Alberta and Saskatchewan should get the heck out of this Post Nation State and pronto. A few more years and the Liberals will do to those Provinces what they did to BC… if you don’t want to be corrupted by the Laurentian scum and become a colony of Queerbek like BC then get out while the getting is good. Oh yeah… F uk Queerbek and the bigoted mafioso politicians. The so called threat of Queebek separation was a good way to destroy Canada as an English speaking Nation and put the french talking Queerbeker in charge… which was always the goal.
Oh Kate. Don’t do this to me.
You have me dreaming of Kamala going live from her basement on Tuesday night, drunk off her fat black arse, skipping the fig leaves of “money and the ethnic vote.”
I wonder how far MSNBC would get through “This ain’t fucking over, Hymies! My brothers know where you fucking live!” before they cut the mike in embarrassment.
To add to the fun, her Jewish spouse isn’t even dead and unable to explain why he married someone he knew, or should have known, to be a Jew-hating piece of trash from a tribe of half-witted peasants about 150 years overdue for the dustbin of North American history.
Les nègres blancs d’Amérique. A truer name was never given them.
Who cares about kweebec? Just have Alberta and Sask get on with it and put a dagger in this diseased dominion. I have 5 more years left here, and as an eternally grateful dual, I’m headed for Florida, but i would sure buy popcorn and enjoy the show.
K-Bec to the West of Canada; “I fart in your general direction you electric donkey bottom biting biters.”
The slogan on their license plates is “Je me souviens” (I remember). What is Quebec remembering? I suspect it’s that it lost on the Plains of Abraham and it spent all that time since then getting its revenge.
We’re not making equalization payments to Quebec. We’re paying reparations to those entitled freeloaders.
Oh. Hey. I’ve got an idea. Why doesn’t Canada just separate from Quebec?
Deplorable, I’m sorry but you have the translation wrong. It means “I can’t fucking drive”.
I got in huge trouble with my French Canadian sister in law for saying that if Quebec truly wants to separate that they should just let us all vote on it. She hasn’t spoken to me since.
Hahaha. Gold!
I’ll borrow that one, if it pleases you.
mhb23re
THEY DESERVE A SECOND CHANCE
Indeed !
Please give ME a vote this time.
I think many of us here agree it is time to separate, whether that just be AB or with SK or whatever other geographical region that wants to join. I would like to hear from all of you as to how we go about it. How do we make Jason Kenney (and/or Scott Moe) listen to us? Or do we find a way to go around around provincial politicians? What are credible ways of moving this forward? Who are some people that have the visibility in provincial circles to assist in moving this forward? (As you can see I have lots of questions and I am looking for answers.)
I’v listened to Newfbertans whine for 40 years now, just git on with it!
Time2go, what is missing is leadership. As I explained above (at about 3:22), I believe that Alberta has to go it alone. Whomever wants to follow can but we cannot try to create a huge unworkable conglomerate to start the movement. We need someone less than 70 years old (it’s going to take a few years for the dust to settle) and who is willing to extricate us from the present manure pile and set us on a path to self-determination.
The battles will be fierce! Try taking candy from a baby! And learn.
Try taking the/our wallet from the free-spenders in the east and see what the Hell happens! They are broke.
We in Alberta can afford everything we have now so far, BUT that cannot last. Ottawa is seeing to that! There will be upheaval but there will be huge opportunities.
We can do this thing!
We need a start and that start requires a leader and a committee of people to set some rules and goals. There will be some communication challenges but with the electronic tools available any resistance within the established media, electronic and otherwise the message can be distributed with minimal distortions.
To hell with Kenny and any of the other so called western political ‘leaders!’ Don’t even think of them! They are welded to their own agendas.
Go to the gym for an hour and this is what happens, somebody steals your thunder! But that’s quite alright because CRB expressed it far better than I ever could!
Time2Go, I know exactly how you feel. I too am wondering how to really get this ball rolling. I was hopeful that with Jay Hill taking on the leadership at Wexit that this would be the catalyst. Then I went to their website to donate and I see that they are planning on running candidates federally. My stomach turned, my mouth went dry and my visa card went back into my wallet. Super, just super, so we can split the intelligent vote and ensure Le Dauphin majority after majority after majority. Where is the plan to actually do what needs to be done?
I am still hopeful that Michelle Rempel or one of her crew will emerge as a beacon we fluttering moths could gather too. That still remains to be seen. Perhaps the next liarberal majority will bring the realization that our benighted Dominion is hopelessly lost.
Some on this board would say “Why don’t you do something instead of just talking about it!” and I certainly understand that. Maybe one day I, or some of our other SDA travellers could be that person. I am hopeful that a project I have been trying to get going on (forever!!!!) will come to fruition and that would allow me the springboard to actually put my money where my mouth is.
It is frustrating and a quandary
Who cares about Quexit. I already quexited in 1978.
We can’t afford these Que-Ont-Suckers.
Wexit now!
Queerbec will NEVER leave. Most of the land belongs to the Native Indians and they wont leave Canaduh!
Yes Alberta has to separate but dont hold your breath for Kenney to do a referendum on separation, the guy is a carpetbagger. Just waiting for his chance to run “Conservative’ federally. He might be an Albertan but in name only. Very disappointing! All his thunder during campaigning was jusT bovine excrement.
He was born in Ontario.
The headline should actually read “They deserve a THIRD chance.” Remember 1980?
Marc in Calgary makes some excellent points above about the makeup of the HoC, the Senate, and the SCC. Harper expanded the House by 30 seats, making it a much fairer distribution going forward for Alberta, BC and Ontario than the previous iteration. It’s far from perfect but at least now it’s a reasonably fair and workable system.
Senate distribution could be fixed by simply giving BC and Alberta 10 seats each, up from 6, while reducing Nova Scotia and New Brunswick to 6 seats each, down from 10. No other provinces or territories would be affected and the total number of seats would remain 105. Like the HoC reforms it’s not perfect but workable.
On the Supreme Court Quebec is guaranteed 3 seats by the constitution, so it’s much easier to go after the low-hanging fruit of Ontario’s non-guaranteed but de facto 3 seats. Ontario should get only 2 seats, BC, Alberta and Atlantic Canada 1 seat each, and 1 seat for Saskatchewan and Manitoba combined.
These reforms (the HoC one is already done) would give Alberta a roughly 10% share, and the West as a whole a roughly one-third share of the 3 most important federal institutions. These should be articulated by our leaders (Jason Kenney? Jay Hill?) as the MINIMUM demands of Alberta and the West, and if not met ASAP then it’s bye bye Canada.