Related items (please be sure they’re reliable sources) are invited in the comments.
57 Replies to “Wuhan Flu: Hydroxychloroquine”
And that’s just with HCQ. Looking at other studies, it appears that the knockout punch comes when combined with azithromycin. Time and studies will tell the whole tale I suppose…but it looks very promising.
Wonder if Trump will be credited with fast tracking it’s approval by the FDA and saving thousands of lives? Ha!
Does anyone know how hard it would be (if possible) for Canadian and/or American companies to produce enough of these two drugs to treat huge numbers of people if required?
“if Trump will be credited”
… Trump will be called out for doing it. The media will spin it so Trump was irresponsibly taking a risk and causing potential damage. We know how TDS works. They think Trump is evil. Nothing will change that.
If they can’t show Trump in bad light, they’ll try to make us forget it.
He was. He was pushing unproven medicine because he’s a goddamned idiot.
at some point in time…..every medicine was unproven
You want to be the idiot to prove it?
1/3 get nothing…and die
1/3 get a placebo…and die
1/3 get the real meds
…volunteer now
No, giving him a one in three chance is too much.
Not hard at all; there are 35mg in every large bottle of SChweppes Tonic water.
… and that goes very nicely with Beefeater Gin and a splice of lime.
Have to make sure you don’t get scurvey.
Robert, I don’t think I could drink enough tonic water a day to get the required dose, even with gin.
12 oz bottle of tonic water has 32 grams of sugar. Daily recommended sugar for men is 37.5 grams, for women is 25 grams.
You may avoid COVID-19, but whatever health issues you create will be worse. I’d also say alcoholic but we’re not allowed to go meetings, so just a drunk!
Though being passed out drunk at home will definitely help you social distance and shelter in place!
Note that to reach the levels of quinine tested in these studies, you’d have to drink enough tonic water that the water has a 50% chance of killing you.
Would be fun to try though!
Yea…given its 200mg twice per day for first 2 days.? You are gonna be spending a shit ton of time at the urinal…but so what.?? 6 bottles in the AM & 6 in the evening.? Meh, its doable. Add gin and man, you is gonna have some fun..!!
I LIke it..!!
Shoot I just saw HCQ production numbers for companies not in China or India somewhere but a day or two ago. There is reason to be optimistic provided we keep up the social distancing a bit longer so they can ramp up and provided it is managed better than toilet paper. Novartis, Bayer, Teva, Mylan are some companies with production outside China/India that are or will be making it. Don’t know about Azithromycin. It’s a dog that isn’t barking compared to manufacture concern around HCQ. Also looks to be made all over the globe including Pfizer Canada. Plus people are less likely to demand to be put on an antibiotic as a prophylaxis. I’m feeling as upbeat as ever but I still wouldn’t want to get sick before end May earliest.
A doctor in New York State was using a zinc supplement as well, in addition to azithromycin and the plaquenil. He treated 600+ and none of them died.
Thank goodness Donald Trump brought this up, and then pushed the FDA bureaucracy to approve it for this specific use.
… And zinc. The zinc is very important. It allows the HCQ into the cells in a way HCQ can’t do by itself.
Watching Bannon’s Pandemic Special from a few posts down made me feel optimistic about America getting out of this soon. Canada I’m not so sure.
We’ll dig ourselves out too. Probably sooner than most think right now. In no time Blackie will be back to carbon taxing and gun grabbing.
What’s the basis for your optimism, that Canada will dig out of it soon?
There is demand, there is supply, there is no infrastructure damage, no cataclysm, no war. Only minor loss of life. Yeah we’ll dig ourselves out. We’re resilient people.
just another day in the Canadian guglag.
From my personal experience in medicine, Canada is always running about five years behind the USA implementing anything new. We are currently in the mode of “Any doctor who dares to use this will be punished.” Therefore, I expect it will take about five years to implement in Canada. On the bright side, there is a proper large study in Canada going on. There are also lots of bright hard working scientists and doctors who occasionally manage to move the bureaucrats faster by their personal charisma and incredibly hard work. So maybe we will not have to wait five years. https://www.covid-19research.ca/hydroxychloroquine-study
This is the same country that dithers on testing kits and masks (among other things). Rest assured that NOTHING that could treat this virus will EVER be used in this country.
Canadians will be happy to die for it. They will not be told.
What the Australians have been doing (article dated March 17th):
“One of the two medications is a HIV drug, which has been superseded by “newer generation” HIV drugs, and the other is an anti-malaria drug called chloroquine which is rarely used and “kept on the shelf now” due to resistance to malaria.”
When we dig ourselves out we will turn a firehose of help onto our neighbor Canada. If you aren’t already well on the mend.
The above is very promising, but this disease is a chance for the authorities in some countries to enact socialist legislation on ostensibly completely justifiable grounds. I therefore don’t see them rushing to adopt an easier solution when they can get almost everyone locked in their own homes and rendered compliant to whatever else they decide they can get away with. It needn’t be the intent of tacitly liberal governments themselves; just incessant pushing by socialist-minded individuals who want socialism, see this situation as an opportunity to get it imposed by stealth, and are in positions where they can push for it or persuade their associates to do so. I wish I was wrong.
It’s almost like the ruling class are in no hurry to have this crisis end soon, regardless of the number of lives lost by foot dragging.
Patience said the wolf to the chicken when asked what was for dinner.
The virus is just the hors d’oeuvre .
The financial boom boom will be the main course.
And for dessert…………ta,da……
One World Government.
I get the sense that some people are reluctant to maccept that there is a simple treatment. The “we need more studies” crowd. This was just the quinine, bot the cocktail.
This Covid form will mutate and be with us now as the flu.
Someone in Iceland had 2 mutations of it at the same time.
Anything the truly works will be dismissed by the brain dead here in Canada.
Journalists in Canada and the US are perfectly free to refuse these “unproven” drug treatments.
Michigan:
“Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs literally threatened all doctors and pharmacists in the state who prescribe or dispense hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19.“
From the ‘Detroit News’ website if anyone really wants to read crap.
Liberals…
“…literally threatened …”
Nice to see that the Detroit News has managed to retain its top-notch writers through all this.
Bbbut the media called it “a false hope”. All those researchers must be Trump toadies.
What are you celebrating? You will be buying this drug for the 5 billion morons in the 3d world soon, because they cannot pay for it themselves and because our dear leader loves kickbacks.
Meh. It is cheap. Every country that cares about the epidemy in the first place, will be capable of buying the stuff.
Especially Ethiopia! And Nigeria! And Somala! And DPRK! They love to spend their own money, don’t they?
Why bother when Turdeau gives 2.65 Billion to help the African dictators fight climate change.
With the Soros sock puppet salivating over a security council seat watch him bribe them with another Billion in donations out of our grandkids rainy day fund
As per previous posts, the most effective treatment appears to be the “Trump Meds” combo of HCQ, azithromycin, and zinc sulphate (with zinc sulphate actually being the key med in terms of neutralizing the virus, but needing HCQ to get the zinc through the cell wall. Azithromycin is apparently more to protect against secondary bacterial infection that may have developed).
Note that in this study the patients all appear to be in the early stages of ChiCom virus. Wondering if at this stage HCQ alone is working almost similar to when it is used as a prophilactic against ChiCom virus?
Watching for reports of HCQ “not working” on advanced cases as part of trying to create a narrative that it is “ineffective” (but, not saying or asking why patient only given HCQ when it is the Trump Meds combo that appears to be proving “effective”?).
Azithromycin has its own very specific anti-inflammatory effect on lung tissue. It is used to treat asthmatics in severe attacks as a last ditch drug when all else fails in combination with things like inhaled steroids. It is used last because it is also an antibiotic and we don’t want multiple resistant strains. Its effect on lung tissue is very well documented so it is not acting as “just” an antibiotic in lungs. If it were just an antibiotic we could use penicillin.
Yes. Doesn’t it also support interferon production in the avioli? Or so I have read. Many beautiful things about it.
It would seem to me that they are trying to block the ACE2 port of entry and chop up or otherwise interfere with already docked and replicating viri. Each molecule in the cocktail having a role to play in the different modes of defense. Hope to read about confirmed mechanisms sometime after the dust settles on all of this. Very interesting.
Article about the couple who ingested fish tank cleaner.
Dr Zelenko published his successful regimen – and cc’d Trump and Mark Meadows on it.
These chloroquine only studies- also being run in Winnipeg and Minnesota- are designed to fail or provide marginal results. Trump is commander and chief of US military, and we now have a couple of infected aircraft carriers.
Good place for him to authorize a study using the Zelenko regimen.
I agree about the need for the triple cocktail approach to this drug. Chloroquine will not be as effective as the combination with Azithromycin
That statement is a reasonable reminder that physicians take due care in prescribing medication and pointing out the applicable professional guidance. As a professional myself (although a different profession), I would be very pleased with my regulatory body issuing a statement like that. It is calm and factual, and it does not prohibit or promote any particular action. It just says, “Here is some guidance on how to be prudent and remember that there are other people out there that need this drug too.”
Doctors are still free to prescribe what they think is best for their patient. Unlike some other jurisdictions.
I would expect that as more information rolls in in the very near future that guidance would be updated.
William, in the time of crisis, the first thing thrown out is the “rule” book, and that is what we have now. Being a cancer survivor I have life long physical changes due to treatment, but I like to say I’m happy to be alive to be able to complain about them!
YAY, what a relief.
If these drugs are actually successful in stopping the epidemic you can be sure it will never be credited in the press. Instead they will claim it was the lock down that did it.
The problem is that chloro and its hyroxy relative have very narrow therapeutic windows. It’s easy to OD and Trump was still a retard for speaking beyond his extremely narrow band of expertise ie running a grift.
un, stop making crap up…
Hydroxychloroquine overdoses are rarely reported, with seven previous cases found in the English medical literature
Hydroxychloroquine was approved for medical use in the United States in 1955.[2] It is on the World Health Organization’s List of Essential Medicines, the safest and most effective medicines needed in a health system.[5] In 2017, it was the 128th-most-prescribed medication in the United States, with more than five million prescriptions
UnMe, given the widespread and longstanding use of chloroquine and hydroxychoroquine (which I perceive to be a later generation improvement on chloroquine) to treat and prevent malaria and more recently to help patients with lupus and arthritis, hoping you can share with us your data showing the extent to which ODs have been a problem amongst these patient groups?
Given the timeframes and number of patients involved, expecting this should be a pretty significant no. of people who have had ODs.
(Please do not include the husband in Arizona whose highly medicated, possibly mentally ill (looking for this to be a possible defense if she gets charged) with depression, schizophrenia & TDS, Democrat donating wife who wanted a divorce talked him into thinking it would be ok to mix some fish pond meds? with soda would protect them (sounds like she might have self-quarantined a bit by not drinking as much) from the ChiCom virus as this could apparently become a pending criminal proceeding).
Look forward to you sharing your data. Thanks!
In 1872 Jules Verne published “20 thousand leagues under the sea”. It has been a while since I have read such vintage SF, but at one point (I seem to remember) a mysterious person provided quinine to a feverish patient. Can anybody back me up without my reading thousands of pages?
This is excellent. What does “early” in the disease course mean exactly? Can we achieve early treatment in places which do not test (I assume all the study candidates were tested and not just diagnosed based on symptoms)?
And that’s just with HCQ. Looking at other studies, it appears that the knockout punch comes when combined with azithromycin. Time and studies will tell the whole tale I suppose…but it looks very promising.
Wonder if Trump will be credited with fast tracking it’s approval by the FDA and saving thousands of lives? Ha!
Does anyone know how hard it would be (if possible) for Canadian and/or American companies to produce enough of these two drugs to treat huge numbers of people if required?
“if Trump will be credited”
… Trump will be called out for doing it. The media will spin it so Trump was irresponsibly taking a risk and causing potential damage. We know how TDS works. They think Trump is evil. Nothing will change that.
If they can’t show Trump in bad light, they’ll try to make us forget it.
He was. He was pushing unproven medicine because he’s a goddamned idiot.
at some point in time…..every medicine was unproven
You want to be the idiot to prove it?
1/3 get nothing…and die
1/3 get a placebo…and die
1/3 get the real meds
…volunteer now
No, giving him a one in three chance is too much.
Not hard at all; there are 35mg in every large bottle of SChweppes Tonic water.
… and that goes very nicely with Beefeater Gin and a splice of lime.
Have to make sure you don’t get scurvey.
Robert, I don’t think I could drink enough tonic water a day to get the required dose, even with gin.
12 oz bottle of tonic water has 32 grams of sugar. Daily recommended sugar for men is 37.5 grams, for women is 25 grams.
You may avoid COVID-19, but whatever health issues you create will be worse. I’d also say alcoholic but we’re not allowed to go meetings, so just a drunk!
Though being passed out drunk at home will definitely help you social distance and shelter in place!
Note that to reach the levels of quinine tested in these studies, you’d have to drink enough tonic water that the water has a 50% chance of killing you.
Would be fun to try though!
Yea…given its 200mg twice per day for first 2 days.? You are gonna be spending a shit ton of time at the urinal…but so what.?? 6 bottles in the AM & 6 in the evening.? Meh, its doable. Add gin and man, you is gonna have some fun..!!
I LIke it..!!
Shoot I just saw HCQ production numbers for companies not in China or India somewhere but a day or two ago. There is reason to be optimistic provided we keep up the social distancing a bit longer so they can ramp up and provided it is managed better than toilet paper. Novartis, Bayer, Teva, Mylan are some companies with production outside China/India that are or will be making it. Don’t know about Azithromycin. It’s a dog that isn’t barking compared to manufacture concern around HCQ. Also looks to be made all over the globe including Pfizer Canada. Plus people are less likely to demand to be put on an antibiotic as a prophylaxis. I’m feeling as upbeat as ever but I still wouldn’t want to get sick before end May earliest.
Sandoz donates 30 million doses and 130 million doses worldwide.
Bayer donates 1 million doses to HHS for national strategic stockpile.
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/03/29/hhs-accepts-donations-of-medicine-to-strategic-national-stockpile-as-possible-treatments-for-covid-19-patients.html
Teva donates 10 million doses of hydrochloroquine
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/teva-donating-more-than-10-million-doses-of-hydroxychloroquine-as-potential-covid-19-treatment/ar-BB11tIy9
A doctor in New York State was using a zinc supplement as well, in addition to azithromycin and the plaquenil. He treated 600+ and none of them died.
Thank goodness Donald Trump brought this up, and then pushed the FDA bureaucracy to approve it for this specific use.
… And zinc. The zinc is very important. It allows the HCQ into the cells in a way HCQ can’t do by itself.
Watching Bannon’s Pandemic Special from a few posts down made me feel optimistic about America getting out of this soon. Canada I’m not so sure.
We’ll dig ourselves out too. Probably sooner than most think right now. In no time Blackie will be back to carbon taxing and gun grabbing.
What’s the basis for your optimism, that Canada will dig out of it soon?
There is demand, there is supply, there is no infrastructure damage, no cataclysm, no war. Only minor loss of life. Yeah we’ll dig ourselves out. We’re resilient people.
just another day in the Canadian guglag.
From my personal experience in medicine, Canada is always running about five years behind the USA implementing anything new. We are currently in the mode of “Any doctor who dares to use this will be punished.” Therefore, I expect it will take about five years to implement in Canada. On the bright side, there is a proper large study in Canada going on. There are also lots of bright hard working scientists and doctors who occasionally manage to move the bureaucrats faster by their personal charisma and incredibly hard work. So maybe we will not have to wait five years.
https://www.covid-19research.ca/hydroxychloroquine-study
This is the same country that dithers on testing kits and masks (among other things). Rest assured that NOTHING that could treat this virus will EVER be used in this country.
Canadians will be happy to die for it. They will not be told.
What the Australians have been doing (article dated March 17th):
“One of the two medications is a HIV drug, which has been superseded by “newer generation” HIV drugs, and the other is an anti-malaria drug called chloroquine which is rarely used and “kept on the shelf now” due to resistance to malaria.”
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-australia-queensland-researchers-find-cure-want-drug-trial/news-story/93e7656da0cff4fc4d2c5e51706accb5
When we dig ourselves out we will turn a firehose of help onto our neighbor Canada. If you aren’t already well on the mend.
The above is very promising, but this disease is a chance for the authorities in some countries to enact socialist legislation on ostensibly completely justifiable grounds. I therefore don’t see them rushing to adopt an easier solution when they can get almost everyone locked in their own homes and rendered compliant to whatever else they decide they can get away with. It needn’t be the intent of tacitly liberal governments themselves; just incessant pushing by socialist-minded individuals who want socialism, see this situation as an opportunity to get it imposed by stealth, and are in positions where they can push for it or persuade their associates to do so. I wish I was wrong.
It’s almost like the ruling class are in no hurry to have this crisis end soon, regardless of the number of lives lost by foot dragging.
Patience said the wolf to the chicken when asked what was for dinner.
The virus is just the hors d’oeuvre .
The financial boom boom will be the main course.
And for dessert…………ta,da……
One World Government.
I get the sense that some people are reluctant to maccept that there is a simple treatment. The “we need more studies” crowd. This was just the quinine, bot the cocktail.
This Covid form will mutate and be with us now as the flu.
Someone in Iceland had 2 mutations of it at the same time.
I read that the cost for a 5 day treatment is under $20
Retail drug costs looks very cheap here with prescription.
https://m.goodrx.com/hydroxychloroquine
https://m.goodrx.com/zithromax?dosage=250mg&form=tablet&label_override=azithromycin&quantity=10
Zinc sulphate comes up as over the counter vitamin supplement
Anything the truly works will be dismissed by the brain dead here in Canada.
Journalists in Canada and the US are perfectly free to refuse these “unproven” drug treatments.
Michigan:
“Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs literally threatened all doctors and pharmacists in the state who prescribe or dispense hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19.“
From the ‘Detroit News’ website if anyone really wants to read crap.
Liberals…
“…literally threatened …”
Nice to see that the Detroit News has managed to retain its top-notch writers through all this.
Bbbut the media called it “a false hope”. All those researchers must be Trump toadies.
What are you celebrating? You will be buying this drug for the 5 billion morons in the 3d world soon, because they cannot pay for it themselves and because our dear leader loves kickbacks.
Meh. It is cheap. Every country that cares about the epidemy in the first place, will be capable of buying the stuff.
Especially Ethiopia! And Nigeria! And Somala! And DPRK! They love to spend their own money, don’t they?
Why bother when Turdeau gives 2.65 Billion to help the African dictators fight climate change.
With the Soros sock puppet salivating over a security council seat watch him bribe them with another Billion in donations out of our grandkids rainy day fund
As per previous posts, the most effective treatment appears to be the “Trump Meds” combo of HCQ, azithromycin, and zinc sulphate (with zinc sulphate actually being the key med in terms of neutralizing the virus, but needing HCQ to get the zinc through the cell wall. Azithromycin is apparently more to protect against secondary bacterial infection that may have developed).
Note that in this study the patients all appear to be in the early stages of ChiCom virus. Wondering if at this stage HCQ alone is working almost similar to when it is used as a prophilactic against ChiCom virus?
Watching for reports of HCQ “not working” on advanced cases as part of trying to create a narrative that it is “ineffective” (but, not saying or asking why patient only given HCQ when it is the Trump Meds combo that appears to be proving “effective”?).
Azithromycin has its own very specific anti-inflammatory effect on lung tissue. It is used to treat asthmatics in severe attacks as a last ditch drug when all else fails in combination with things like inhaled steroids. It is used last because it is also an antibiotic and we don’t want multiple resistant strains. Its effect on lung tissue is very well documented so it is not acting as “just” an antibiotic in lungs. If it were just an antibiotic we could use penicillin.
Yes. Doesn’t it also support interferon production in the avioli? Or so I have read. Many beautiful things about it.
It would seem to me that they are trying to block the ACE2 port of entry and chop up or otherwise interfere with already docked and replicating viri. Each molecule in the cocktail having a role to play in the different modes of defense. Hope to read about confirmed mechanisms sometime after the dust settles on all of this. Very interesting.
Article about the couple who ingested fish tank cleaner.
https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/woman-who-ingested-fish-tank-cleaner-was-prolific-donor-to-democratic-causes/
Dr Zelenko published his successful regimen – and cc’d Trump and Mark Meadows on it.
These chloroquine only studies- also being run in Winnipeg and Minnesota- are designed to fail or provide marginal results. Trump is commander and chief of US military, and we now have a couple of infected aircraft carriers.
Good place for him to authorize a study using the Zelenko regimen.
I agree about the need for the triple cocktail approach to this drug. Chloroquine will not be as effective as the combination with Azithromycin
Not so fast Ontario, according to our medical professionals nothing to see here. Oh and btw they seem to think rheumatoid arthritis and malaria sufferers are much more important to treat than this virus thing. Good to know that while the rest of us are losing jobs and businesses and in self imposed isolation our medical professionals must play by their self imposed rules because it is better to care less than be seen as careless.
https://mcusercontent.com/52d9e9dfa66c8bca909aa4569/files/8f3ccfff-69aa-4759-90ce-a4dfff9b9860/2020_03_23_OPA_OMA_RNAO_Statement_to_Members_v2.pdf
That statement is a reasonable reminder that physicians take due care in prescribing medication and pointing out the applicable professional guidance. As a professional myself (although a different profession), I would be very pleased with my regulatory body issuing a statement like that. It is calm and factual, and it does not prohibit or promote any particular action. It just says, “Here is some guidance on how to be prudent and remember that there are other people out there that need this drug too.”
Doctors are still free to prescribe what they think is best for their patient. Unlike some other jurisdictions.
I would expect that as more information rolls in in the very near future that guidance would be updated.
William, in the time of crisis, the first thing thrown out is the “rule” book, and that is what we have now. Being a cancer survivor I have life long physical changes due to treatment, but I like to say I’m happy to be alive to be able to complain about them!
YAY, what a relief.
If these drugs are actually successful in stopping the epidemic you can be sure it will never be credited in the press. Instead they will claim it was the lock down that did it.
FYI here’s the link to the underlying study. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.22.20040758v1.full.pdf
Note that it’s out of Wuhan. Hopefully this isn’t garbage CCP propaganda.
The problem is that chloro and its hyroxy relative have very narrow therapeutic windows. It’s easy to OD and Trump was still a retard for speaking beyond his extremely narrow band of expertise ie running a grift.
un, stop making crap up…
Hydroxychloroquine overdoses are rarely reported, with seven previous cases found in the English medical literature
Hydroxychloroquine was approved for medical use in the United States in 1955.[2] It is on the World Health Organization’s List of Essential Medicines, the safest and most effective medicines needed in a health system.[5] In 2017, it was the 128th-most-prescribed medication in the United States, with more than five million prescriptions
UnMe, given the widespread and longstanding use of chloroquine and hydroxychoroquine (which I perceive to be a later generation improvement on chloroquine) to treat and prevent malaria and more recently to help patients with lupus and arthritis, hoping you can share with us your data showing the extent to which ODs have been a problem amongst these patient groups?
Given the timeframes and number of patients involved, expecting this should be a pretty significant no. of people who have had ODs.
(Please do not include the husband in Arizona whose highly medicated, possibly mentally ill (looking for this to be a possible defense if she gets charged) with depression, schizophrenia & TDS, Democrat donating wife who wanted a divorce talked him into thinking it would be ok to mix some fish pond meds? with soda would protect them (sounds like she might have self-quarantined a bit by not drinking as much) from the ChiCom virus as this could apparently become a pending criminal proceeding).
Look forward to you sharing your data. Thanks!
In 1872 Jules Verne published “20 thousand leagues under the sea”. It has been a while since I have read such vintage SF, but at one point (I seem to remember) a mysterious person provided quinine to a feverish patient. Can anybody back me up without my reading thousands of pages?
This is excellent. What does “early” in the disease course mean exactly? Can we achieve early treatment in places which do not test (I assume all the study candidates were tested and not just diagnosed based on symptoms)?