It’s only news when it happens to Ontario.
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Alberta, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland have also called for changes to the formula.
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13/37 = 35%
13/20 = 65%
Mr Moroneau said “extensive discussions”. Ya with Quebec. After this latest outrage I want Alberta out of Canada.
joe, don’t fergit to take Nutley with you!!!
Nah. Send her and her bunch of commie clowns to Venezuela where they’ll be among friends.
Quebec makes up 22% of the Canadian population and is taking 65% of equalization payments.
Parasite
Yep, any country that includes Quebec has no future. Itis becoming obvious to more each day.
The only reason this made it to the Glowball news is Rob Ford. The nerve of that guy saying Ontario sending money to Quebec is a bad deal. Oh, the humanity.
Don’t fret Albertans. After all, the Spawn bought Trans Mountain with money from the unborn to pretend to the Westerners that he might build the expansion for the next couple of election cycles so shut up about his funneling billions into Quebec where he has a base that votes for him and agrees that Alberta oil should be either shut in or given away to American refiners. That’s just the cost to you for the multicultural green theocracy utopia bequeathed to the Spawn from his Papa.
Does anyone here know if that large chunk of change going to Quebec voters is borrowed or does it actually come from revenue?
John, it comes from income and business taxes collected by the federal government.
Most of the equalization money comes from Alberta, some from Sask, BC, and now Ont.
“Most of the equalization money comes from Alberta, some from Sask, BC, and now Ont.”
Fake news. Not one red cent of the money used by the Federal government for equalization payments comes from “provinces”. It comes out of Federal revenues collected through Federal taxation of Canadian citizens, residents and corporations, regardless of where they are in Canada.
If equalization payments were stopped tomorrow, there would be no change to the amount of money flowing into the Federal treasury – unless (ha!) the Federal Government actually decided to reduce Federal taxes for all Canadian taxpayers and tax-paying corporations by an amount equal to those payments.
If you’re going argue that equalization is unfair – a worthy argument – argue it on the payments themselves, not on phony claims about how much the “provinces” are paying.
Unless, of course, you believe Canadians should pay more Federal taxes if they live in one location rather than another.
The citizens of Alberta, Saskatchewan, BC, and Ontario are net payers into equalization. The rest are net takers. I think people understand reality all too well.
The only people who pay for equalization are the citizens of Canada, regardless of their residence.
JJM at 10:21
“The only people who pay for equalization are the citizens of Canada, regardless of their residence.”
Sorry JJM you are wrong again.
My neighbour, is a landed immigrant, and not yet a citizen of Canada. She would like you to know she pays taxes; federal and provincial. So “The only people who pay for equalization” are not just the citizens of Canada as per your statement.
Technically the funders of equalization payments are not limited to citizens, residents, and corporations. I leave it to you to figure out who else is included.
Yes, yes, Canadian citizens and Canadian residents (whether citizens or not) pay Federal taxes.
So – mea culpa! – excuse my shorthand; I’ve made this point earlier already.
My remarks were aimed at scar’s fallacious net payers/net takers nonsense.
If equalization is “fake news”, then let’s get rid of it.
Then we’ll watch to see who squeals first.
It’s not equalization that’s “fake news”.
It’s the falsehoods and misconceptions about its funding, amply demonstrated by the ridiculous caterwauling in this thread.
You know, I’m getting tired of hearing that crap. The money for equalization payments comes out of the pockets of Albertans. You are spouting Liberal radar chaff with that stupid argument. It’s a money laundering scheme, pure and simple.
Wrong. The money for equalization payments comes out of the pockets of Canadians.
JJM….you are powerfully stupid, I can tell. The money comes out of the pockets primarily of Albertans. You can try to play the shell game with your equally stupid friends, but the simple fact is that Albertans pay much, MUCH more into Confederation than they ever get back. And equalization just makes it that much worse. You are a fool….and you show it so publicly.
jjm, you could not find your ass with both hands. How it works is take PEI, no income. Alberta/Sask. Develop resources and have income. So money is taken from all those families and given to a Province like PEI. It should not even be a Province. It only has 140,000 people.
Canada is a scam a fake Democracy and a Kleptocracy.
Norway has a 1 Trillion Dollar Heritage Fund. Alberta copied Alaska and started their Heritage Fund before Norway did, Alberta has about the same population as Norway, the difference is that Norway did not have to send Equalization Tax to a sh*thole like Ottawa. To be handed out in snowflake vote buying scams by Liberals. Alberta and Sask need to get out of Canada.
Organize a UDI vote, do not negotiate, do not waste time talking or going to court. Tell them all to pound sand. And do not trust any greasy politician, immediate UDI vote and out.
“[The] difference is that Norway did not have to send Equalization Tax to a sh*thole like Ottawa.”
There is no “Equalization Tax”, so stop making things up. There is only an output – equalization payments – sourced from Federal revenues.
JJM is “aggressively ignorant”…..that is, he works at it to stay that dumb. My guess is you have been sucked into the Nigerian Prince scheme. You say that the money for equalization comes from federal revenues…..okay, Einstein….and where do federal revenues come from and who pays the most into those revenues per capita? Come on, clown. Regale us with your “intellect”.
JJM, Fake News? Really?
I did not say the provinces sent the money, I said “Most of the equalization money comes from Alberta, some from Sask, BC, and now Ont.” Which is true. You made the inference that I meant provinces.
Now if we wish to talk about equalization, do you wish to include the territories of Yukon, NWT, and Nunavut? You see they do not get “equalization” payments. … They get “Territorial Formula Financing”.
So using your logic I guess we would have to spell out “Equalization and Territorial Formula Financing” every time so we could have a complete and proper, non-fake news discussion. 🙂
Maybe we could say “Equalization and TFF”? Oh, but TFF might be confused with Texas Fishing Forum, Turkish Football Federation, Telluride Film Festival, time to first failure, or any one of thirty plus abbreviations.
“Most of the equalization money comes from Alberta, some from Sask, BC, and now Ont.”
No “equalization money” comes from any province at all. It comes from Federal revenues. Those Federal revenues are the total of Federal taxes paid by all Canadians and corporations in Canada.
Your argument should be directed at the output: equalization payments. It makes almost no sense at all to direct it at the input: Federal taxes. Ending equalization won’t change anything for a Federal taxpayer in Alberta; they’ll still have to pay the same Federal taxes according to their income as a Federal taxpayer in PEI.
Of course, without equalization payments, the Federal government will now have $19 billion to spend on something else – found money! – that is, unless Federal taxes are eventually reduced to account for the $19 billion that need no longer be collected.
And we all know how much governments like to reduce taxes.
JJM re your comment of 10:41
1) Actually Federal tax paid depends on which province you live in. I suspect you did not know this.
2) “Those Federal revenues are the total of Federal taxes paid by all Canadians and corporations in Canada.” Wrong again. Please think about which tax payers you are leaving out.
Most Albertans I know do not really object to equalization payments – they are very Canadian. What they do object to, is the government of Quebec essentially saying, we don’t want your oil crossing our border (unless you pay us lots of money like the Churchill Falls deal), but we’ll take the money that comes out of Alberta (and yes JJM that is where most of the equalization money is coming from). At the same time revenues from hydro-projects are excluded from the equalization formula to the advantage of Manitoba, Quebec, and BC.
JJM, math is hard, logic is even harder!!!
In your case, and judging from your postings, that would appear quite true.
JJM, there is a reason my marks were so low when I took industial engineering. I scored 93%, when 99% should have been, I was working 3 jobs at the time. Logic and math happen to be easy for me, your stupidity processes a little harder. I would “match” my logic, or any aspect of my capabilities to anything you could cough up. Fact, you could get a few helpers, I would still luv to match you. You low IQ rectums always over state your self worth in your own minds
It guess it was a silly question when one considers the size of our current deficit and that if we killed equalization our deficit could be reduced by that amount meaning that it could be considered to have been borrowed from the unborn. From that perspective it could be argued that much of our current deficit goes to buying off Quebec voters.
dare I suggest that with the current debt and deficit that the money is borrowed.
The way the Equalization Communist Redistribution Tax works is every dollar that moves in Alberta is taxed and taxed again. When Alberta Votes for Independence one thing that must be made clear it will be English speaking and English only.
No Multicult no French. If you wish to speak any language but English it will not be paid for by the taxpayer. Get while the getting is good Alberta.
No talk, No Deals immediately get organizing a UDI vote.
in Calgary, white and engerish are on the wane !
I ‘m going to pay my carbon tax “in kind”.
Notley and Turdeau will be getting a lump of coal from me.
It will just be a small lump so the posties don’t have to struggle to deliver it.
Still haven’t decided what I will send to the premier of Quebec. I know what i’d like to send him.
Horgan will get some plastic straws.
This has well and truly gotten beyond a joke. If it could not be any more obvious is that the liarberals are actively working to destroy the country. It is well past time for Alberta, Saskatchewan and those like minded areas of British Columbia, Manitoba and Northern Ontario to leave the welfare scam that is Canada. It gave me great hope when I learned yesterday of many efforts that are now under way to accomplish just that.
And the f’n leeches brag about balancing their budget. Trudeau and the Laurentian Elite are scumbags.
Equalisation payments should not even exist. Either a province/territory can use its own resources or it can’t.
So there’s that.
Equalization is a disincentive to people living in backward provinces to move to where they can become more productive and prosperous. How many Quebecois would prefer to starve at home or move to Fort Mac, Fort St John, etc and make good money? Why should Albertans finance Quebec’s day care?
Agreed. It should be done away with. I wonder if Max has it on his agenda?
“Why should Albertans finance Quebec’s day care?”
They don’t.
Yes, they do. Through the taking of money out of the pockets of Albertans primarily and sending it to the Quebec treasury. Quebec will receive at least $11.7 billion in federal equalization payments in 2018-19.
Perhaps what JJM means is the money Quebec uses to fund day care comes from Quebec’s own tax revenue and the money HydroQuebec makes from Churchill Falls power. The federal equalization payments fund other things in Quebec, but not day care. How JJM knows this I cannot say.
I think all monies go into general revenue and after that allocated to various programs and yes Canada pays to keep quebec alive.
jjm, you off your meds????
As you said, it’s a form of welfare.
Enough is enough.
“Either a province/territory can use its own resources or it can’t.”
Ridiculous – particularly so for territories. There isn’t a developed nation in the world that doesn’t use national tax revenues to help out different regions.
For that matter, provinces do the very same thing. So I’m guessing you also don’t believe your provincial taxes should be spent on the have-not parts of your province then.
We are Canada. Don’t tell me we DON’T have the resources to make it as a First World nation. Equalisation payments are forms of laziness, backwardness and welfare.
Really? I’ve heard no end of the paltry $50 million or so Alberta received of EQ, waaaaaaay back when oil wasn’t our number one business.
Then there is that “troublesome” issue that Quebec does not include it’s hydro generation as any sort of “contribution” to the EQ pot, then takes the lion’s share of any provinces’ kicked in “formula”, including Ontario….for decades. Every year it seems. You can go look up the stats on that one Ontario Boy.
When you get the Feds interfering in a Provincial, court won, legal fight on who owns the resources in any Province, and their development, interferes in the legal transport of it across provincial boundaries to export (damn we can’t have that) then listen to that POS fake PM state if Ontario doesn’t get with his program on carbon taxes, Alberta oil sands gets whacked, you’re going to get a fight on your hands. The Feds don’t own the resources. They also don’t own the air that we breath, or what we exhale, both personally or industrially. His Party represents the UN, not Canadians. Oh, pardon me, just certain Canadians.
Beside Ontario Boy, the UN has stated repeatedly it isn’t about the CO2 “hysteria” (their words), it’s about “worldwide redistribution of wealth”. Why else would Junior be sending gobs of money we don’t make over seas for various UN issues, while stiffing pretty much every one else back home?
It isn’t his to give and the UN doesn’t sit in the HoC.
If a province chooses to leave its resources in the ground, that should be there problem. They can’t live off those provinces that do and then claim some kind of moral authority. Take a hike, loon.
What you say is true, but you forgot to mention that the whole equalization payment system has become a slush fund for political reasons. Successive PM’s including Harper have done nothing tangible to fix the inherent problems with the formula, which is when a province knowingly suppresses the economic activities of mining or fossil fuel production ( Quebec), or inflates the public sector (Manitoba), or artificially reduces the cost of domestic hydro power below market value (Quebec, Manitoba) because the rest of Canada will make up foregone revenues through equalization payments. Then that is a huge problem requiring a leader with large cojones.
I see some of the spell checkers have been updated regarding correct sequence of letters in TURDeau.
so we’re a ‘have’ province now? does that include the LIEberal built fcukin *record level debt* of 400 BILLION ‘with a B’ debt that we ‘have’?
There seem to be two differences in Ontario since they were a “have not” province. 1st, their debt has skyrocketed, and they have had many industries leave, including the planned shutdown of some auto plants.
Second, they voted Conservative.
Guess which factor got their transfer payments canned?
This is sooo blatantly a punishment for not toeing the leftie line….
Or maybe now that they have a conservative government, it is assumed that they will become more successful.
Dja think the Spawn would admit that? That voting conservative leads to success?
It is pretty obvious that provinces that are or have generally been conservative are the “have” provinces, and those that have been under NDP or Lib rule end up as “have not” provinces, funded by the “haves”.
Why or why is there no discussion of this obvious truth in our national media?
Jjm frog loving creep
He is obviously a Liberal loon. He uses all the nonsensical babbling points of the Liberals to cover up their rot.
Maybe he’s one of UnMe’s multiple personalities.
It’s an issue for the whole dominion when Ontario’s productive classes are blatantly being punished for voting Tory.
A lot of that going around these days. The Fed jacked up the price of a mortgage on news that thanks to Donald Trump things were actually getting better for Americans who work for a living.
If it moves, raise its taxes and deny it credit.
If it stops moving, pump it full of Chinese money.
Canada is not a country. It’s a poorly thought out union of various types of jursdictions. Ontario could be a country, as could Quebec. A conglomeration that includes Alberta, SK and northern BC. BC could also be a country. MB would need to make some hard choices and the Least coast could/should go adrift to oblivion. But Canada, as a ‘country’ only in name, is running on borrowed time. Time to let it go.
You are right, Canada is not a Country. It is some form of a masochist Penal Colony.
In Canada today, the average working family pays more in taxes to Government, 3 levels of government than they are allowed to keep and take home to those families for the necessities of life.
Canada has less people than California and more Total Public Debt than most of the Bankrupt EU countries.
There is nothing of any importance that adult men and women in Canada have ever been allowed to have a say let alone avote on, The Trudeau Constitution was rammed down everyones throat with no vote.
Bilingualism was rammed down everyones throat.
Multiculturalism was rammed down everyones throat.
Open borders was rammed down everyones throat.
Even the Canadian flag was picked by 8 Liberals when Parliament was not in session and again no vote. Not that I dislike the flag, but only 8 Liberal MP’s decided not Canadian men and women.
Canadians suffer under over 500,000 laws, rules and regulations. That is a stack of paper over 14 stories high. All shuffled around by civil servants making more in wages, benefits and perks than the average Canadian could ever dream of getting.
No Canada is not a country it is a tax farm, and a penal colony.
Even do not get 1 equal vote per citizen and do not get equal representation. Because Trudeau just took the old BNA Act and added on what he wanted with no vote it is impossible to fix.
Quebec will always get 75 MPs even if their population dropped to 500 people.
Alberta needs to go for UDI and begin again. Get out while you can.
Churchill, First Lord of the Admiralty during the early years of World War I, famously said, of Admiral Sir John Jellicoe, Commander of the British Grand Fleet, during the Battle of Jutland:
“He is the only man who could lose the war in an afternoon.”
Please do not be surprised if this country “quite suddenly, quite unexpectedly” (Churchill, again, in the “…we shall fight on the beaches…” speech, if memory serves) falls apart just as quickly.
It is a disgrace and embarrassment to me, my family, my friends and everybody in Ontario (and I am an Ontario Tory through and through), that the Minister of Finance of Ontario (Tory) should be complaining about not receiving equalization payments.
Not acceptable.
My prescription is simple:
– We need a new Prime Minister (the current one is not acceptable — think Sir John Jellicoe) and a new Minister of Finance of Canada, as quickly as possible;
– Ontario must reduce its net debt (including municipalities, electric utilities, “Green Energy” contracts, etc.) to 25% of GD(P)P) within the next three years, so that it can, once again, contribute to Confederation, in a meaningful way.
I happen to believe that this is not only possible, but probable, given the right mindset. And there are lots of us round here who can do that.
Well I applaud your thoughts. BUT. For Alberta the best course I firmly believe is to just leave. There is no political solution to the mess that is Canada. It is undemocratic, has a criminal level of taxation, the people have no voice, they can not even watch what ever tv channels they want the government even controls that. I well recall as an Albertan the RCMP confiscating peoples satellite dishes because they were watchin illegal American channels. Is that not a penal colony. Is that not like Cuba.
I well recall the RCMP locking up Alberta farmers for selling their own wheat to who they wanted and not who Ottawa said they could sell too. Is that not like Cuba.
In the Great Depression Alberta received no help from Canada, because we would not do as Ottawa said, Is that not like Cuba.
Albertans and other Western men in the Depression when Canada would not help, rode the rails and empty boxcars to take their pleas to Ottawa for help. And were stopped in Winnipeg, some shot, most beaten and rode down by the RCMP like peasants in Czarist Russia. Is that not like Cuba.
No to all greasy Politicians, and No to Greasy political parties. Get out Alberta. Demand a UDI vote. Walk away.
Dead on right. It is time for a new direction. The house of cards that is Canada is bound for failure.
Just a hunch on my part, but I suspect that Ontario got cut off the equalization payment because Ford told PM Numbnuts where to stick his carbon tax.
The quebek fwenchman is convinced that quebekkie is a net contributor to Canada. He’s the one who’s payin’ the freight.
Harper didn’t do anything with equalization because any talk of ending it would probably lead to the dissolution of the country.
So, Ontario is now a ‘have’ province? How convenient…..Doug Ford. The equalization formula got reworked and voila Ontario is out and those disadvantaged fwenchman qualify for another billion.
What an outrage. I’m sick of how this country operates. Quebek is the first among equals – everytime.
My old departed Mom. Born in a farm house kitchen beside a wood stove in the Manitoba interlake knew what quebek was. Throughout her life she carried on a BDS movement against quebek. She taught me well. I would not spend a dime on any product made in quebek. It’s time Canadians woke up to what the scam of quebek has done to this country and that includes it’s federal politicians.
Oh but they’re our first citizens, them there Queebeckerrrs, they think they own Canada. We know the money goes to GENERAL REVENUE first. Just a mere technicality, then Quebec robs it.
You are bang on ab.
I do not buy products from Quebec.
I refuse to eat BC fish (too much sewage in the water – even though the sewage is organic)
And I have given up on BC wine.
Let’s start by actually enacting the Alberta Firewall. Then feds wouldn’t collect income taxes, the province of Alberta would, and we’d send the feds what we think they need from us to run the country. We’d also be collecting for the pension plan, and that money would stay in Alberta.
https://web.archive.org/web/20061224170836/http://www.albertaresidentsleague.com/letter.htm
The most important thing is starving CRA of cash. Collect ALL taxes in Alberta by the provincial government. Then you would have a little bit of leverage when the rest of the country is trying to destroy your economy. All for the political ambitions of a Trudope to get re-elected by cheap gasoline prices in Ont and Que. Alberta Pension Plan, Alberta Prov. Police need to be stood up. But, I think we would probably need a border patrol pretty quickly , as well. The Federal Government charges way, way, way, too much for those services that it provides Albertans. Maybe, we need Scott Moe and Jason Kenney to put their heads together, and see what agreement there is having a united front against the Feds.
The status quo is getting out of hand.
I don’t think we need another CBC for Alberta, just yet. On second thought, NEVER. Government sponsored media is a very Fascist idea, and Juthtin has it working overtime fellating him.
Just to clear up things up for JJM!
JJM don’t feel too bad that you don’t understand equalization payment it is a difficult and somewhat obtuse system! I’ve studied it in some detail and find it is muddy waters at best! It’s concept has been around since confederation but tweaked in 1957! The idea has always been to standardize public services!
Because Canada is a confederation of provinces, the federal government uses a province’s GDP to determine if a province is a “Have Province or a Have Not”! This determination has a 4 year delay in it, so it doesn’t accurately reflect the financial situation of any Province. This fact was the one that Premier Moe wanted addressed—-and the Liberal government refused and ignored the request!
The Federal governments do the payments but they are based on the Province’s GDP! They are therefore directly coming from the Province but being distributed by the Feds! The interesting top up to Quebec of 1.4 billion would likely come from the government of Canada!!
When the services in a Have not Province ( Quebec) surpass that of the Have Provinces , the system is broken!
I suggest we start separation proceedings immediately!
“Equalization” should not be based on provincial GDP, but the ability to deliver services at a national standard.
Using GDP rewards bad government. Quebec has bad government, but has cheap daycare, with its massive cost hidden.
BC is heading down that road. So, it’s easy; bribe your voters, get other provinces to pay for it.
No, equalization must be limited to services available throughout Canada and be measured off that, not GDP (dumb idea).
The time lag is also excessive. Then, to add insult to injury, the feds do their best to crush a significant western industry.
Here’s a thought:
The provinces could collect their own income taxes and let their legislatures decide how much “equalization” they wish to pay,
I mean folks, what’s next, “Oshawa equalization?”
Where were the tears when Fort Mac got crushed by the oil market, burned down in a forest fire, then subjected to a carbon tax with their product only available to the lowest bidder? (I must give credit to Rex Murphy for that triumvirate).
Equalization is broken because Canada is broken. Both need to be fixed but only one can survive for much longer.
Canada is unique among nations, it has never had a civil war. Maybe it needs one.