While watching this vidcast of Joe Rogan discussing the current state of politics, there was a reference to the recent longform interview of Jordan Peterson by the British feminist writer, Helen Lewis. Ms. Lewis is not a stupid person. She may be infected with really, really bad ideas but she’s not dumb. One could argue that she is a prime example of a top intellectual of the Left. And Jordan Peterson destroyed her in the debate that masqueraded as an interview. The Left, for all of their blather, fundamentally understand that their views do not hold up to scrutiny, to logic, or to serious debate. This is why they are so scared of Peterson and why their low-level shock troops want to ban him from speaking everywhere.
Here are the main highlights of the Lewis-Peterson discussion. It’s painfully uncomfortable to watch at at times, but it’s an important marker in the many decades long SJW vs. Traditional Society battle we’re now in the midst of.
And Peterson is clearly dumb enough to engage in activities that are guaranteed to have no effect. Debate with the left is a simple waste of time.
Will logic convince them? No.
Will being polite convince them? No.
Will anyone’s mind be changed? No.
Will it stop the spread of the brain cancer that is socialism? No.
Will it slow it down in any way? No.
So why do morons keep trying it?
So really, who is stupid? The people who keep employing a tactic (debate/engagement) that has never worked, or the people who keep convincing people to try their guaranteed to fail political system despite the 100% fail rate of said system?
Dr. Peterson isn’t trying to convince them of anything, IMHO. He’s trying to keep his field of study and expertise from being automatically dismissed as a useless appendage of grievance studies by showing “you can become a scholar and change the world if you study and apply these methods”.
Peterson is doing the most logical thing he can: expanding his reach. The majority of the people who identify as left really don’t understand that they’ve been tricked. However, they do understand that FOXnews is evil, so they will never, ever watch foxnews.
If you want to reach these people you must enter their world. Yes, it sucks, yes car-crash interviews like this should be causing shame to the leftist interviewer, yes peterson gets the same old trash thrown at him all the time. Meanwhile, his message is making its way into the leftist sphere. It scares the bejeesus out of them.
This helen lewis was clearly trying to avenge the even worse car-crash interview with cathy newman. You could see it in her eyes, hear it in her voice, she wanted to be the new face of the left in the UK by trashing peterson when no-one else had.
In the end, she was left crying on the side of the road, not understanding what had just happened and afraid to admit that she went looking for it. She’s not dumb , that much was clear during the interview, but she is confused, very confused. She will not be reasoned with. Her audience can be, and peterson did.
FYI, I really hate all variations or “all people are basically good”.
No one commits to evil, with good intentions, or not knowing full well what they are doing. NO ONE.
Anyone who is past the age of 13, or whatever, and is still a socialist, knows what they are doing, and they are fully committed to the cause of evil. FULL STOP.
It takes a real monster to be evil, do evil, and know that they are evil. These people exist of course, but it is an exception and definitely not the norm. We all know lefties and socialists, most of them absolutely do NOT consider that what they believe/say is evil. In fact it is just the opposite, they truly believe that they are in the right. Hell, it is why we on the right invented the term virtue signalling, i.e. they are so desperate not just to think that they are in the right but also that others must see their goodness.
And this is where peterson hits them in the gut. He hits them with a message and a course of action that anyone who actually listens will know is correct, or at least significantly more correct than what the left spews. It is working.
Has calling a conservative hitler ever convinced a conservative that they are hitler, and should change their ways. It has never happened and will never happen. Do you truly think calling confused virtue signalling lefties as evil commie bastards will ever convince them to listen to you??
Calling a person Hitler has two purposes.
1. To signal to their team that he is an enemy.
2. To remove blood guilt.
kevin , you do like going full STUPID , don’t cha??
apply the same standards to religious belief, there is no proof, and NO logic to religion, yet people believe, and should be allowed to do so. Just don’t think you have the right to shove your BS, right wing or left wing, in my face and try to force me to adhere to some ways you THINK is right, kapeech?????
“She will not be reasoned with. Her audience can be, and peterson sic did.”
Possible…, but I am not optimistic. How was this audience convinced to be socialists in the first place? Has any of that changed?
Your comment at 3:23 reminded me of what Pol Pot’s young executioners apparently said while slitting the throats of their victims, “This is for the good of the people”.
In the former Soviet Union the “enemies of the people” were either executed or sent to the Gulag for re-education, which in millions of cases was a slow execution.
It always end the same. We are just not there yet.
I completely disagree with you, Kevin. Any fair minded person, watching interviews like this or the Cathy Newman one, may very well get a little voice in the back of their head that will grow louder & louder, encouraging them to question the fallacies of the propaganda that has indoctrinated them.
We can certainly hope that a voice in the back of their heads will question the fallacies of the propaganda that has been indoctrinated them, but in the meantime thousands more like her are being churned out in our universities.
“And Peterson is clearly dumb enough to engage in activities that are guaranteed to have no effect. Debate with the left is a simple waste of time.”
No Kevin, you’re dumb if you think that he is trying to convince the left. He is doing much more, can you guess what it is or is your binary brain glitching again?
“So why do morons keep trying it?”
Ask all the white males in their 20s who refuse to self flagellate why they are grateful that someone is finally speaking for them?
Oh yeah. Just retreat to our corners and don’t even engage in debate. That ought to work. Whether the young woman was convinced of anything is beside the point. Someone watching this on Youtube might find themselves convinced or, at least, engaged.
So why do morons keep trying it?
Because when the talking completely stops, the shooting imminently begins.
Is that your preference?
Let me know how that works our for you.
The narrative of the SJW cannot survive sunlight because all of the holes in the arguments are clearly visible. Dr. Peterson is shining a spotlight, therefore he must be silenced.
Socialism/marxism/communism/progressivism is religion.
DEBATE CANNOT CHANGE/ALTER THE RELIGIOUS MIND.
No amount of reason, logic, well thought out arguments will ever have an effect. If you were dealing in the scientific realm, then there would be a point; BUT YOU ARE NOT IN THE SCIENTIFIC REALM WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH MARX.
This is a fundamental rule of the physical universe.
DEBATE DOES NOT AFFECT THE RELIGIOUS MIND is the fifth law of thermodynamics. Debate with the left is an attempt to create a perpetual motion device.
The sixth law is that no one ever really goes apostate from a cult.
A product of the enlightenment was the attempt of scientists to more fully know and explain God’s creation. Tell me again how religion and science are diametrically opposed?
Or are you falling into the “all religions are equal and the same” fallacy?
I don’t believe that “debate” is Dr. Peterson’s goal. Rather it is giving an intellectual voice to all us rubes who cling to our guns and bibles (even though we possess degrees from UC Berkeley, and are competent, successful professionals in technical pursuits). Dr. Peterson is publicly deconstructing the myriad of shallow arguments and movements fabricated by the Left for the sole purpose of inverting the natural hierarchies that dominate western civilization. The Left CRAVES power as they decry those who have it. Yes, the Left is using their lobster brains to attack JP … only they aren’t quite as evolved or woke as Peterson. Not even close.
This latest female punching bag, trotted out by the highest order of the pseudo-intellectual left, reminded me just how important (in a negative way) the concept of victimology is for these cultural and political Marxists. Victimology underpins their entire philosophy of identity politics. Certain groups MUST be identified as VICTIMS in order to … ‘tear it all down maaaaan’. Problem is … they have chosen “victims” that don’t exist. Like women who dominate higher education. Like blacks who are thriving under a Trump Presidency. Like Hindu subcontinent Indians who dominate Silicon Valley. The Left has NOTHING if they cannot convince you that you are an oppressed victim. Literally … every word out of this harpys mouth was claiming victimhood … even when she “defended” male elementary school teachers … she framed them as “victims”.
The problem for Western civilization is that there will ALWAYS be far more “victims” in the general population than competent, successful, people. As Christ said; the poor will always be with us.
And there will always be more losers than winners, because losers are those who cannot or will not do what it takes to be successful.
Success isn’t for everyone, only those who are sufficiently motivated, ambitious, and smart enough. The vast majority of people in our rather, soft society, do not possess those qualities. If everyone did, there wouldn’t be enough to go around and then there would be blood.
That’s life.
Kevin, I do understand where you are coming from and you may very well be correct that the hard core Marxists will never change. But I suspect that the vast majority of the population are centrists and can be swayed. Peterson provides them with the intellectual arguments to counter all the M.A.D. propaganda.
A corollary of this, is that attempting to destroy Peterson also has no effect. He is already destroyed in the minds of the cult. Outside the cult he cannot be destroyed. So they are also wasting their time.
Their proselytizing does not work on people who are not already converts.
So I suppose the only point, on either side, is simple morale of their side.
You’re thinking that morale is irrelevant, perhaps. Yours seems extremely low. Chin up, old boy!
If I may, Kevin, expand on your ideas. I believe Peterson is doing what Limbaugh did for the right. The dominant left kept small “c” conservatives out of the light. I for one was an early listener to Limbaugh and was in complete agreement with his ideas. What was most startling was that for the first time I was listening to someone who expressed my thinking. Not only that, but his success was proof that there were many of us.
So Limbaugh was a polarizing figure. And that can lead to problems because it leads to the right pushing back for the first time. This could lead to civil wars.
To understand this phenomenon, read about “r/K selection theory”. Google it – there’s lots of stuff on it. Stefan Molyneux has very good video on it. Also Bill Whittle has an excellent analysis. Also see the video Molyneux and Whittle did together on r/K Selection Theory.
In short, when the good times end due to the takers overwhelming the producers, they will shift to becoming producers for survival.
A mirror into the soul is the most deadly of weapons.
You can only hurt the ones you love.
Peterson must be neutralized by the collective for the same reason they break mirrors.
Arguing with cult members is futile as Kevin rightly points out,however only a friend can get close enough for the encrusted progressive to lift their “intellectual armour” enough to listen.
Peterson is the focus of their fears,because he is everything they claim to aspire to be.
For being a successful rational man is to be enemy number one.
Ok, these leftists believe that gender is a social construct and is something you feel and nothing to do with biology. They also believe that if you have a group such as a company or office which has over 50% of one “gender” then that’s bad. How exactly can you accomplish a completely equal 50/50 split organization based on “feelings” and why is that important?
And let me add … as inspired by Kevin’s posting of Victor Davis Hansen’s articles about the leftists who are causing California to burn and thirst … that it was the “evil patriarchy” who engineered dams and created a vast network of water storage, flood control, and redistribution (transport canals) of water in California. These MEN enabled LIFE in the DESERT known as Los Angeles where 2/3 of the CA population live (because the weather is beautifully cloud-free). And guess what? More women have benefitted from this act of heroic hierarchy than men.
But it is the female-dominated eco-zealots who are attempting to tear it all down … in the name of “returning the state to nature”. At the same time these women are gleefully welcoming the world’s “poor” into the State illegally putting a greater strain on the resources they are attempting to DESTROY. It is the suburban mom’s who encapsulate their offspring in bubbles of snowflakery. Protecting them from every “evil chemical” including the sanitary “treated water” they drink from the tap. And those same moms are “saving the trees”. “Keeping Tahoe blue” (for THEIR $5M lakefront cabin … see … they have a bumper sticker … so THEIR presence at the lake is absolved of environmental impact).
Women … women … dominating the “organic” and “pesticide, herbicide free” eco movement are causing the CA fires that rage. Their “love” for the environment is destroying the environment. They have “saved the spotted owl”, they have returned CA to “nature” (nevermind the 40M residents -including the illegal pop.- inhabiting the state). And MOST of them live in LA … where without the constructs and resource hierarchies created by MEN … they would DIE. Same with every resident of San Francisco and Silicon Valley who drink water stored and piped from the Sierra. Every single one of these “eco-saviours” should walk their talk … and MOVE … MOOOOOOOOVE!!! OUT of MAN-made CA. Stop burdening the environmentand resources with your presence. You wanna be “eco” and “anti-patriarchal”? Move. Get the hell out of this artificial California. Now!!
But, in another stroke of irony … Gov. Brown is retiring to his inherited family estate in the pristine, undisturbed, CA wilderness. Gov. Brown will continue to burden the State with his presence.
Regarding the California wildfires, they have always been there. What has made them really bad this year is the high number of people living among the forest. Not sure you can blame Gov. Brown or eco-feminists. It is the relentless march of humans into undisturbed wilderness to blame. In western Canada we had serious and destructive forest fires, blamed on global warming of course. There was no mention of the fact that where thousands of people used to live in the wilderness, now hundreds of thousands of people now live. And of course people are startled that the fires have affected many more people than in the past.
In 1911, a fire swept through the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory. 146 people died in the horrific fire … mostly young children tending the machinery. https://www.thoughtco.com/triangle-shirtwaist-factory-fire-p2-1779226
After the fire … we did not BAN factories. We didn’t even BAN child labor. But we DID change working conditions, and mandated Building Codes to make the Factories safer. Fire escapes, fire sprinklers, fire standpipes, etc. We ACCOMMODATED the needs of workers to STAY ALIVE.
There are 40 million people living in the state of CA. The Urban Wildland Interface isn’t going away. The people aren’t going away. Instead, CHANGES must be made. If PG&E is the culprit behind MULTIPLE massive conflagrations then we MUST CHANGE the way PG&E maintains and operates their equipment. If eco-terrorists are to blame (rather odd irony that CA fires are all starting during periods of high winds), then we must start prosecuting and EXECUTING anyone who starts these fires. If Gov. Brown has prevented clearing of the forests from dead trees and clearing of brush … then THAT idiocy MUST CHANGE.
The people aren’t going away … and burning the forests isn’t going to help. After the Oakland Hills Fire, there were calls to BAN trees. Trees and a lush landscape were blamed for the fire (actually it was firefighter incompetence). Well … check out the hills now … they are completely reforested. Re-grown. Just waiting for another idiot crew of firefighters failing to properly extinguish and standby a grass fire
Meanwhile … Jerry Brown blames … “global warming”. Nonsense. But this is what passes for “leadership” in modern CA. Citing a POLITICAL cause for the fires … “global warming”. Not science. Not a practical consideration. Just Marxist nonsense. Jerry GLEEFULLY cites “global warming” as the “cause” of these fires, thus deflecting the REAL cause of these fires. And then there are the eco-savior crowd who are THRILLED that the forests are “naturally” burning to cause germination of certain seed types.
Common sense, and analytical solutions are nowhere to be found. If the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire happened today … Jerry Brown would be calling for more little boys tending the machines so there would be a more “equitable” deaths occurring with the upcoming fires. IDIOTS are running (read: ruining) our civilization. The ONLY solution is to hire (read: elect) more Donald Trump’s in America and Canada
Helen Lewis?
Like Patty Hearst, the Stockholm Syndrome is strong in her.
The point of Peterson engaging in debate is not to convince his opponent. The point is to shift the views of the audience.
I doubt if this lady has ever tried to engage with ideas other than the ones she expressed, which is at least why she does such a poor job of defending them, and probably why she holds them.
I was amused by her citation of Gordon Brown’s lifting people out of poverty. Poverty in the UK is measured at 60% of median income. Brown’s policies lifted a lot of people from 59% of median income to 61% of median income, whilst allowing those at 55% or worse to get even poorer. He was greatly aided by the 2008 recession which made everyone poorer, but proportionately hurt high income people more than low income people, lowering the median wage. Hence someone previously on 59% took a pay cut but found themselves now on 61%.
A statistical gain but a real loss.
“The point of Peterson engaging in debate is not to convince his opponent. The point is to shift the views of the audience.”
I agree. There are millions listening to Dr. Peterson and almost as many reading his books, and people, mostly young men, are attesting to Peterson helping them. If perchance some of his interviewers, like Helen Lewis have a voice in the back of their heads wakening them up like Robert suggested above, all the better.
Hey, why should we question what Peterson is doing and why?
My conclusion is that he’s under control, has a game plan and executes it effectively.
Were he dumb, we wouldn’t be watching.
The full interview under this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZYQpge1W5s
If you can’t see through the mass of bullshit that is Jordan Peterson, I don’t know how to help you. He is a leftist: they’re not out to destroy him.
Thanks Robert for posting this Helen Lewis interview of Dr. Peterson in this shortened version showing all the knock out punches Jordan meted out. I watched the original hour and forty-two minutes and this shortened version is much more effective, and you are right, he destroyed her. She does manage to keep her smug superior smile throughout though.
I wonder if she read more of Dr. Peterson’s work.
Reading Peterson’s crap is the first step away from that cult of personality. You guys baffle me.
Please be specific, to help me understand my cultist admiration of Peterson. Because there wasn’t ONE WORD he spoke in this interview that I disagreed with. Not one.
If he’s such a great conservative, why’s he invited to that bastion of conservatism the Trilateral Commission?
You’re taking the words of a schizophrenic as Gospel.
I noticed two glaring things about this interview.
One, they made his mic sound bad the whole time, while hers was flawless.
Two, this woman really does not have a clue what she’s talking about, and Peterson is a master of his subject.
It is always good to have this type of interaction out in public for everyone to see. This is the only way for us to sort the wheat from the chaff.
Oh yes, such a Leftist … NOT!!!
https://youtu.be/V8mb9Ytx7Aw
Read his crap and especially his “defense” of free speech. He doesn’t say anything that isn’t word salad. Maybe step away from cheering for Team Anti-Left and realize that’s what he is.
really look at what Peterson has to say. I for one do not think he is the intellectual that people are saying he is. he is a globalist and obfuscates when given tough responses to his work. I am not alone in that opinion and I am not a left winger.
IMO this is not a ‘right’ versus ‘left’ issue. Peterson has merely decided to speak up for the ideas that constitute the foundations of western civilization.
He simply asks; will we allow ‘The Devils’ to continually set the narrative and the agenda without a peep?
He’s one of the devils. Just because he’s right on one small issue (and free speech started as a leftist issue first re: blasphemy laws) doesn’t mean he’s actually a clear thinker or a defender of the west.
What always strikes me in these type of exchanges (and I have my fair share of them) is the leftist’s smug arrogance in thinking they own the truth. I’m sure that she and those who hold her views consider themselves open minded and Dr. Peterson and those who agree with him as close minded old patriarchs. I laugh to keep from crying.
That woman has never had an original thought in her life. She’s parroting her indoctrination. And she’s writing a book about feminism. I can’t wait.