Setting the scene, we have foreign secretary Johnson’s recent assertion that, having spoken personally the people from Porton Down, the laboratory, who were “categorical” about the nerve agent having come from Russia.
Now we have Gary Aitkenhead, chief executive of the defence laboratory, has announced that his laboratory has “not verified the precise source” of the agent.
“We were able to identify it as novichok, to identify that it was military-grade nerve agent”, he said, adding that: “We have not identified the precise source, but we have provided the scientific information to government who have then used a number of other sources to piece together the conclusions that they have come to”.
Establishing its origin, it appears, required “other inputs”, some of them intelligence-based, to which the government has access. But before this, former diplomat Craig Murray had already been convinced that Johnson was “point blank lying” about the degree of certainty Porton Down scientists had about the Skripals being poisoned with a Russian Novichok agent.
Well for one thing — they’re recovering. That’s not really Putin’s style.
h/t Adrian
There is something not right about this poisoning story. Russia has no axe to grind against this former double agent. He only received 13 years imprisonment in Russia, not a lot of time for the serious allegations he was publicly charged with, which leads me to believe whatever secrets he gave the west, were minor and or Russia wanted him to give those secrets away in a disinformation campaign. The area where he was poisoned just happens to be right smack in the middle of the UK bioweapons research and manufacturing industry. This opportunist could easily have been working for Russia, stealing UK bioweapons, and accidentally poisoned himself, which would prove embarrassing for both countries, more for the UK, as they always deny having such capability. A charade.
Apparently the means of formulation of the nerve agent novichok are widely known and Iran has produced and documented variations. Britain only knows that Russia first developed the compound but past that likely knows nothing. Why does everyone want to go to war with Russia?
Sabre rattling with Russia is a great way to distract from the elite’s distaste for implementing Brexit from the EU. The EU elites and their supporters would prefer to dictate the way they pillage the economy!
The Russian elites similarly like to ‘organize their economy’! Recall in 1995 a novichok precursor was used to poison Russian banker Ivan Kivelidi (ru), the head of the Russian Business Round Table, and Zara Ismailova, his secretary…According to historians Yuri Felshtinsky and Vladimir Pribylovsky, the murder became “one of the first in the series of poisonings organized by Russia’s security services”. The Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs analyzed the substance and announced that it was “a phosphorus-based military-grade nerve agent”[69] “whose formula was strictly classified”.[69] According to Nesterov, the administrative head of Shikhany, he did not know of “a single case of such poison being sold illegally” and noted that the poison “is used by professional spies”.
There are so many ways to assassinate someone; why would you leave markers that only lead to one conclusion? Most skulduggery doesn’t seek to attract undue attention…unless you’re trying to send a message like the Alexander Litvenenko former FSB agent polonium-210 radiation hit.
Of course the WMD pretext was the whole rationale of going to war in Iraq and turned out splendidly as well; so perhaps we should all gear up for Part Deux!
Playing “Hearts of Darkness” is a much easier game, except when you are caught out, than implementing Brexit. While Putin is a shrewd operator who shouldn’t be underestimated, this would appear to be an elite British government led cock-up of over stating conclusions to inconclusive evidence.
Stupidity and political machination doesn’t just inhabit one side of the political divide.
Prosit!
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group ‘True North’
Exactly. Why would Putin choose such a specific, rare, nerve agent that traces directly back to him and him only? Something tells me he was trained better than that at the ol’ KGB. Regardless of the efficacy of the agent used … he would use one that is more “commercially” available. As I said below … a guaranteed KILL is not necessary to send an unmistakeable message to any other potential double agents.
I dunno. I sort of just mistrust anything coming out of Boris J’s mouth. He’s an attention-seeking blowhard.
That aside, the Kate’s assertion is correct: if the Russians wanted him dead, he’d be dead, and we’d be none the wiser.
“if the Russians wanted him dead, he’d be dead”
Yuschenko survived. They poisoned this guy’s doorknob so it’s pretty clear that the orders came from the top, and this agent was developed by Soviet Russia so it’s also clear what country is behind this, Putinpologists aside.
I’ve always wondered what the probability of this guy being attacked by Russian organized crime was.
I still think that it’s more likely that the Russian government did this, but I’m a bit surprised by the absolute certainty that’s been presented for this attack.
Why did Canada expel four Russian diplomats? Because they told the truth
The Russians are being punished for saying that Freeland’s grandfather was a Nazi collaborator during the Second World War. He was.
So Richard North doesn’t like Boris Johnson … well neither do I, but that coupled with (apparently) conflicting expert statements doesn’t relieve Putin of responsibility. Aside from the chemical composition of the nerve agent used … what about the motive? Who would want to kill these two? A Russian mafioso? Why? Answer that question (truthfully) … and you might be onto something. It does seem that Putin has the MOST logical motivation to kill a double agent.
And the idea that Putin ONLY shoots to kill, doesn’t do it for me either. Many times, sending a message … such as maiming these two for life … might be just enough to dissuade any other Agents from turning on him. The message that he can kill you anywhere, at any time … is a sufficient message to send.
The Russians have been killing traitors for decades. Of course they tried to kill this guy. It’s what they do. They tell everyone they are going to do it. In the UK alone there have been somewhere around a dozen deaths in the last decade or so under suspicious circumstances that all had ties to the Russians. Russia is controlled by a criminal gang. Just because the US left has lost its collective mind with this collusion nonsense doesn’t mean that conservatives should be defending Putin and his monsters or buying into oddball conspiracy theories.
Far as I’m concerned, it’s Putin.
“…they’re recovering. That’s not really Putin’s style.”
I’m not ruling it out on that. I’m not sure President Putin had it done, but the Russians are human, they can f*ck up once in a while, too.
Exactly. We so often ascribe perfection to government agencies and functions … not to mention business entities … when in reality they are as imperfect as any human being. I am a cynic, or skeptic by nature … and see EVERYONE as flawed and imperfect. Of course mistakes and miscalculations can occur. Yes, Putin’s lackeys may have expected the doorknob application to be more effective than it was?
The Freeland – Putin story well predates the recent Ukraine-Russian exceptionalism episode … In his book Red Notice, Bill Browder describes Reuters journalist Freeland sniffing around Moscow like a bloodhound when he was risking fate and dancing with the devil to make fast millions. Browder is impressed by Freeland’s guts.
HLO was a lone shooter
There were no WMD is Iraq
And O’bungles was a scandal free POTUS
You have to bend logic to the breaking point to believe the “official” narrative on this story. If Russia was going to kill an ex-pat intelligence agent, for what conceivable reason would they would have waited this long or done it by this method? And apparently both the Skripals are recovering so it’s not believable they were poisoned by a “military-grade” nerve agent allegedly more potent than VX, which they absorbed from their doorknob, and still wandered around for 3 hours, having a good appetite for lunch and then both succumbing at the same instant after lunch on a park bench. Who made this stupid nonsense up anyway?
The real story, assuming they were poisoned somehow by something like Novichok at all, is most likely a false flag staged by either the current regime in Ukraine, or some entity hostile to Russia in the Middle East. Manipulation of public opinion by false flags is successful more often than not because the public are such gullible dimwits.
there is a wide range of possibilities, including that Russians run a “failed” attempt on purpose, just to sow confusion, just as they have been doing in America and the election fiasco. Libbies will run with it till the cows come home, and the divide will widen.
You and I are equal skeptics … it’s just I found enough evidence for God’s existence. But on the rest … you and I are closely aligned. I am not the kind of Christian that is routinely characterized as gullible suckers who want to believe in a “sky daddy”
Tell us how about jet fuel and the melting point of steel.
Given the drumbeat of ridiculous twisted news (we are all being brainwashed by the Russians so our elections turn out with anti-leftists winning, doncha know?) this could have easily been a staged event — hey dude, pretend to be sick for a week, we are calling in a favour for your good treatment here in old Blighty. And we’ll blame it on Putin, he’s a monster, I mean, look what he did to Agenda 21.
Interesting that the journalist for DW interviewing Boris Johnson is Zhanna Nemtsova, the late Boris Nemtsov’s daughter.
Some Russia skeptics might remember that Boris Nemtsov was shot to death while walking down the street outside the Kremlin in February 2015.
Nemtsov was an opposition party leader with wide grassroots support who was scheduled to appear on Russian TV that night and prove that Putin was lying about no Russian Troops being in Ukraine. Of that assassination V. Putin declared that he would personally track down Nemtsov’s killer. Since then…crickets. Da! Sure Vladdie.
“Cui bono?”
The person who has benefited the most from the attack is Teresa May. It has successfully deflected attention from the host of problems surrounding her, including her opposition to Brexit and her attempts to sabotage it.
The fact that Russia is denied access to samples and refused permission to participate in the investigation, despite treaty requirements guaranteeing those rights is itself incriminatory.
Putin’s motive?? He had they guy in jail and let him go. If he wanted him dead they guy would have committed suicide Clinton style. Why would Putin use a method tracked back to the Russian military? Same question as why would Russia hack computers leaving Russian identifiers just like the job had been done by the CIA.
After the weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq and Bush finally admitted to blowing up the twin towers by himself, it’s much easier for me to believe the government when it assigns “expert verified” motive and guilt to other world leaders. Bashar al-Assad is surely the culprit in the Syrian nerve agent attacks on his citizens and Israel’s Benjamin Netanyahu must be the motivational force behind the Palestinian uprising that we have seen lately.
My lord, it is so hard keeping up in this fast moving world that having such adept government’s watching and explaining it all to us is truly a blessing.
Don’t attribute logic to the meddling ruskies. Vlad was sending a message to someone. He wanted to make sure there was no mistake as to who did it.
A bullet hole to the back of head might not point to who ordered the hit. Polonium or some other agent has russia written all over it.
Message received comrade.
I don’t expect logic as a rule in internet discussions. That looks to be true of your comment which I think is likely an application of of circular logic. That is: “I know Putin likely ordered this hit because although it’s not the act of a rational man making the best choice for his country, or himself, Putin is not a rational man. And I know Putin is not a rational man because he ordered this hit”.
But circular logic is not logic at all. It is possible you have hard evidence that Putin ordered this hit but if so you would likely have put it on the table and you haven’t done that.
And your failure to present a logical argument on why the Russians did this based on motivation is doubled by your failure to present a counterpoint to the argument that the official story on the poisoning method is not plausible.