It is not "freedom of the press" when newspapers and others are allowed to say and write whatever they want even if it is completely false!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 14, 2016
*Also a test of post scheduling.
It is not "freedom of the press" when newspapers and others are allowed to say and write whatever they want even if it is completely false!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 14, 2016
*Also a test of post scheduling.
Spot on!!
Ron Donald, run.
Too bad the media in Alberta, along with Phillips, Notley and Hoffman, do not understand this stuff. The lies they come up with, despite actual facts showing then to be liars, are amazing.
Have to agree with the Donald on that one.
While all of the #nevertrumpers are castigating Trump for appearing to want to limit “freedom of the press”, none of them are posing any solutions to raising the integrity bar for these same institutions… He can’t sue the all for libel and slander…
If ‘truth’ is requirement for ‘free speech’ then our free speech will eventually taken away by politicians and bureaucrats with the power to define what “truth” is.
Free speech only has meaning if people are allowed to say things which others believe to be false.
Yeah, I agree with Trump. It’s like just having a registry on your firearms. It isn’t like you’ve gotten rid of 2A, just a different interpretation. +Of course+ the gov’t gets to decide these things.
Just like that upstart therebel.media. How DARE they think they’ve a right to press credentials at the NDP’s political press conferences. That’s up to a representative of the gov”t to decide, right?
And lists. Need lists too. Want a gun, stay off lists. Any list.
Hell, if we’re going to play silly-bugger with the 1A, why not 2A too, eh?
Conservatives…yeah.
One thing I have to say about Conservatives here and in the USofA, they are so good at eating their own, jumping on the bandwagon the media is drumming on.
I think the populace understands that the “press” is totally biased. These past two weeks they have descended to kondergarten levels. I say that Trump should seek the traditional remedies to libel.
I suppose Trump’s comment’s validity is predicated upon the context or intent of it. Other than that which is plainly libellous, the press, in fact, should be allowed by law to print whatever they want. However, justifying their behaviour morally or professionally, no matter how plainly biased, lazy or corrupt on the grounds of “freedom of the press” is a very feeble argument.
I agree. We are all guilty of going personal on those who run for political office and it is really getting down to a low level. If I were advising Trump I’d say make mention of any personal attacks and tell them if that’s where they are going he must be doing OK! He also should ask them if they would like to be sued for character assassination? There is no call for it unless it is something that would affect suitability for Office. He has already cleared that hurdle. Hillary has some skeletons but apparently she is clear for the run as well. Look at their policies, people get fed up with low grade politics, they want issues that affect them dealt with. Trump may have a leg up on that score, if he didn’t he would not have come this far. I would support him if I were a voter in the US.
Wrong !
If the press can only publish what the government thinks is truth – then it is not a free press.
Pravda means truth – how did that work out ?
There are certainly downsides to this interpretation but freedom isn’t easy(or free).
TimG and DrD,
You guys have it right. Anyone, including the press, should be free to print whatever they want. The problem is that the concept of “freedom of the press” is predicated on the assumption that the society to which it applies will always have a press that is searching for the “truth” (i.e. “facts”) and search beyond the BS put forth by politicians…regardless of party. We don’t live in that world anymore.
After many years of fighting it, I’ve come to realize that the progressives have a point when they say that 17-19th century documents like the English Bill of Rights, the Constitution of the US, and so on are antiquated and no longer apply in the same sense for which they were originally intended. Traditional marriage died because society stopped seeing it as sacred and wanted “no-fault/quickie” divorce. The fourth amendment and similar laws against unreasonable search-and-seizure died when society started accepting airport security and road-side check-stops. The “presumption of innocence” died when society accepted that agencies that administer income tax could “deem” people to be in violation of some tax law. And on and on…
Similarly, the concept of “freedom of the press” has lost much of its meaning because politicians and members of the media are now (often literally) in bed together.
Of course, it was the progressives themselves that changed society’s values on each of these things. But, that’s another topic.
As Hillary’s peccadillos see more and more the light of day, to the point where even CNN/Don Lemon cannot provide her political cover, the theme of media bias and elite selfishness will become more and more apparent and possibly decisive. The Dems made a big mistake going after Trump on his 2nd Amendment comments; he may bring out a raft of new one issue voters, given US low turnouts with new voters therefore at the margin.
Putting the Orlando killer’s nutbar father front & centre at a Clinton rally & Heather Mills’ Clinton Foundation “charity” work were two very big mistakes with terrible optics. Letting Bubba spout off with his “C” nonsense, hoping one factoid can be doctored as the essential truth, reveals Dems’ panic & foreboding.
BTW, all Bubba demonstrated was that he is even stupider than his wife on email realities.
Given Hillary’s apparent poor health and her media free ride with no inquiries into her conduct, how can we believe should would risk debating Trump?
It simply doesn’t fit in with the obvious strategy to obfuscate her every failure and ethical indifference, hoping the voters won’t notice in time.
If Assange’s promised cache of emails is any indication of what the Dems no doubt would know is coming, Hillary & the Dems are in deep doo-doo.
I know – Hillary breaches security, others endanger the nation. Political projection in its most refined sense, of which Dems & con artists are masters.
Trump is trying to challenge all the wrongs at once.
He should try to be patient and concentrate on being the alternative to the Hollywood elites,Washington insiders and Wall Street manipulators.
Become Prez for the people unlike HRC,the
Depends dumpster, who’s running because it’s her turn
Right now he’s all over the map.
Freedom of the press means exactly being able to print things even if they are wrong! You can complain about shoddy journalism all you want, but you cannot seriously be suggesting curtailing freedom of speech, Lance. What would you suggest – a government agency to monitor journalists? What could possibly go wrong?
It’s absolutely bizarre. Two Muslims get shot in New York – it’s Donald’s fault .The price of gold goes up – it’s Donald’s fault. Anything goes wrong – it’ s Donald’s fault. He’s Hitler reincarnated for scapegoating people. Well who is actually being scape goated ? Of course you cannot have the I Q of anyone but a moron and not understand that the price of gold is up because we have interest rates at levels never seen before and wizards manipulating with finacial engineering they have no idea how to get out of. I guess no one noticed Muslum radicals are killing people . What a Suprise , someone reacted. Don’t you know you are supposed to line up peacefully for slaughter ? I suspect and I hope that the poles are being manipulated also.
Bryce you are right. I agree totally Lance is still a d bag though.
We are not willing to fight so we lose. It’s funny Lance and other lefties claim they love Canada and they sing the anthem the loudest and they wave the biggest flags on Canada day…..
What do liberal who love Canada so much do? They change the flag, change the anthem , and use immigration to change the culture they are a disgusting perverted representation of patriots liberal do the opposite of what speak. They create bills like for example the life and liberty bill what is the bill it’s the right to kill the unborn and kill old parents. As an example they use a title that is friendly to the ears but the content is usually the direct opposite of the title. The clean energy act is about forcing tax payers to foot the bill for solar and wind that emit just as much co2 in the mining and manufacturing of them lol ….they are always they most patriotic hypocrites out there .
When I attended journalism school (Ryerson in Toronto) in 1965, it was drummed into us that there was a legitimate place for opinion but that place was NOT within news stories. Opinion was to be clearly marked and either posted as an editorial or bylined as opinion. Apparently that direction is no longer being followed.
They’re still trying to mould the “ideal” citizen which always votes Liberal. Where would big government be if it allowed citizens to make their own choices?
To complete the task, the family and communities must be expunged from public discourse and influence. Civil society must be destroyed for civic society/cultural Marxism/PC to complete their political hegemony. Above all, dissent into their vision is intolerable, lest common sense infect the narrative.
The NYT justifies their bias with their bias as justification. Fallacies prevail – begging the question, ad hominem attacks and hypocritical political projection are the tools of their mirage & their goal to repair classical liberalism which hasn’t delivered them (screw the people; they’re revolting – of course they are, very dirty indeed) enough wealth and power. They pulled that crap here and there before. The hatred of Trump is plain and simple political snobbery.
The ideology of progressivism is based on anti-thought to combat the reality of their ineptness. Of course their “solutions” are more state power for them.
Donald Trump isn’t a conservative. He’s a former Democratic Party supporter, but I suspect he’s never been more interested in politics than was necessary to support his business and was basically content to leave it to those who were mainly interested in politics.
Until he saw things being so screwed up by the professional political class and the legacy media, that he decided something ought to be done, and since latterly it has been those on the Democratic side who have been more successful and distorting the process and as I said, he’s not the Republican party hasn’t been able to co-locate its faeces it was easier for him to use their party.
I don’t trust him to maintain the “freedom of the Press” but nor do I trust the other candidate and much less do I trust the other candidate’s party for that. As things in the U.S.A. are now if I were voting there I’d vote for him, not expecting him to be a particularly good President but for the chance that his election to that office is more likely to shake things up.
Actually, it is, it assumes decency of those that engage in it.
Unfortunately, the “journalists” much like the rest of the society is going down hill in so far as the ethics go. You may say the ethics in actual fact don’t come into consideration. It is safe to say that the “journalists” are the leaders in this ethics free movement.
If you look at it with a critical eye, you will notice that US constitution was written by people that assumed the decency and ethics of future society, however the progressives like to run down those that wrote the constitution.
The decline of democracy and ethics is expected when the ruling class of the low life gets in power. The low life ruling class with the help of “lawyers” learned how to wrap their bullshit in a nice sounding package that the LIV’s can understand and not question.
…..and so the beat goes on, as the song says. Happened before to whole civilisations and will happen in the future. Its the nature of things.
The meaning of phoenix is in fact the meaning of the rise and fall of civilisations.
good comments.
Now that we know the national DNC primaries were rigged, Debbie Slutz emails proved that beyond any doubts.
Anyone else notice that she has not been charged with a crime?
Media never mentions her name, we should just forgive and forget, would an independent or republican be forgotten?
Trump handlers are smart to present the american people with a charge of a rigged presidential election. With more emails coming and democrats charged with Clinton Cash, how would any but the most low information voter trust a democrat run voting machine? I plan to demand to see my vote when it is electronically cast and watch how it is handled.
I hope many more will be observing their votes and how they are treated.
Canuck, by 1979 that had changed to everyone has a bias and it’s okay as long as you know and recognize your bias. I haven’t been back to Rye High since 1982 so I don’t know what they’re teaching today.
No, Dante, my comment was sarcasm.
libel: a published false statement that is damaging to a person’s reputation; a written defamation.
— New Oxford American Dictionary, 2016
If a journalist writes libellous material about someone – an essential part of libel is its falseness – is that journalist protected from being sued for libel by “freedom of the press” (or, in the US, by the 1st Amendment)?
I suggest he isn’t.
slander: the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person’s reputation.
— New Oxford American Dictionary, 2016
If a journalist slanders someone on news broadcast, is that journalist protected from being sued for slander by “freedom of the press”?
I suggest he isn’t.
Thus, Donald Trump is correct.
In the same way that freedom of speech does not exempt me from the responsibility of speaking truthfully, the freedom of the press does not suddenly exempt journalists from having the responsibility of writing and speaking truthfully.
Ultimately, however, falsehoods, exaggerations, and conflations told by journalists and the media only serve to undermine their credibility and trustworthiness.
Sorry(not sorry) – long post. A couple of comments. Back when Hot Air was something other then a #nevertrump only-facebookers are real, website, I posed the question to the base in a comment: What is a Conservative? There never was a uniform answer, nor really was there much consistency, other than a vague notion of “personal responsibility”, “smaller government”, and “fiscal prudence”. Some were Reaganites, others were classic libertarians, some social “conservatives”, and some “progressive” conservatives, really, small L liberals.
So when people state Trump is not a “conservative”, it follows that the question becomes “by who’s definition?”. Based on his public statements and interviews and that of his family that I’ve seen over the last year, I would rank him, in my hierarchy, as a “social conservative”. Many Americans and likely a few Canadians are not willing to accept that as being “conservative”. But what is different about Trump in this respect, is something most conservatives cannot be familiar with – the vast difference in being very very rich in contrast to being very poor or at least struggling.
While not publicized enough, Trump is very conscious of his privilege acquired through money. He is way more of a philanthropist than has been made public. This is why he’s seen as being on the fence politically. He recognizes that occasionally people do really need a hand up, and it may be a hand-out – he is known to reward selflessness handsomely. Trying to pigeonhole him into the “conservative” camp or not, when much of America is very much interested in tearing apart the “conservative” Republican party and tossing it on the ash-heap of history, is hypocritical. He is who he is. He is running under the Republican banner because that’s how the US system works. Independents don’t stand a chance.
With regard to his “freedom of the press” twitter comment, his frustration with a biased press is obvious. Everybody on the right, Trump included, understands the first amendment and “freedom of the press”. However, the current press environment can hardly be described as “free”, even without state restriction. The press is not free, when contrary voices, in part because of editorial/publisher decisions, and the scourge of monopoly ownership, are suppressed and marginalized. The press is not free, when access to the airways is controlled by money and government fiat. The press is not free when nepotism in politics and media is the norm rather than the exception. Americans may have a free voice, but they do not have a free press.
Trump’s twitter rant is about the integrity of the press, and as a political newcomer, he can be forgiven for believing that integrity and balance should be the standards from which discussion flows. In Trump’s world, integrity is the building block of his business – without it, there is no business. In politics today, integrity has left the building and he’s wrestling with that in a vicious pig fight.
Skip, you are exactly and precisely correct in your assessment of Donald Trump and of the press.
Freedom of the press is foundational to our democracy. When the press become a political party full of lies people recognize that and sales reflect it.
What MSM outlet has a business plan that is fostering growth? The people are speaking.
Whoops! Didn’t pick up on that.
I’m impressed by the quality of arguments and analysis presented here.
It far exceeds that found in the MSM… more aptly called: the Zombie Media.
No, OZ, you aren’t being censored but you are being a prick.
Honestly, it’s on our to-do list, check the comments every 15 minutes on a Sunday between 05:00 and 23:00 in case some commentator got caught in the spam filter. /sarc
FWIW, this one got caught because the word ‘righties’ is in our filter, -5.
Every other one got caught because ‘censored’ is in the filter. Do you know why ‘censored’ is in the filter? Because Kate got pissed off with people complaining about her deleting their off-topic, rambling, wall of text comments.
-lance
Freedom means the right to make mistakes, plus to say, to think wrong, and to express wrong.
We DO NOT want Censorship!
(censorship is a dual edged sword that can and will be wielded against the Truth)
Want the truth in media? Check out A.I.M., Accuracy In Media or F.A.I.R. Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting(note FAIR is a progressive entity and may, …may, be tainted by the ever pervasive bias that Lefties promulgate today, Leftists are far more pressured to conform to their Tribe-Big Brother Government- and to reject heterodoxy than Rightwingers, although Righties are becoming mindless conformists to anyone who can -Ape- Rightist talking points…see Donald Trump)
Thumbs up Skip.
Wah wah wah.
I though the mainstream media was a dinosaur headed for extinction. Aren’t SDA’s “Not waiting for the asteroid” and “Your moral and intellectual superiors” threads always going on about how journalists today are a bunch of smug, out-of-touch,self-immolating left-wing elitists whose profession has lost all credibility and respect among the public?
Folks here will gleefully mock every mistake the media makes, insistently declare them obsolete in the age of blogs and citizen journalism (even as SDA routinely links to their work as its primary sources), and celebrate their financial decline — but maybe the simple truth is that you just don’t like how, by merely reporting reality, the media as a whole daily undermines and contradicts your safe conservative echo-chamber.
Skip shamrock great points and i get it .
when trump talks about NAFTA he is talking about mexico …Canada has a huge contribution to the usa economy for the good . i work in the usa and i get told these exact words from Americans in Arizona a boarder state
“ehhh chico tell your wife to have the baby here we want Canadians to be here,”
hey why dont you move here ? we would love to have you here ….all legal law abiding Americans telling me these things ….they come up to me and say these things this is not in conversation when it was passed around that i was going home for the birth of my child the Americans Mexican and white wanted me to have my kid there because i bring something to the table and they love that. american people are not to be confused with the american government american ppl understand good work ethics and Americans appreciate hard work.
Face it … America’s left (not your fathers Democrat party) and the media are really good at reaching the slow thinkers and poorly educated voters. OK … the Low Information Voter. They feed them lies, damn lies, and Hillary’s explanations. They make jokes about Conservatives, and show them pushing old people in wheelchairs off cliffs. The conservative movement needs to lose their smoking jackets and intellectual pontification. The conservative message is being DEFINED by the left -WRONGLY ! The Republican Party needs to FIGHT BACK … creatively … with humor, using media to CONNECT with the voters. The party STILL doesn’t seem to “get it”. They expect way too much “thinking” from the average voter. The average voter is a dim-witted simpleton. It didn’t used to be that way … but the intellect of most Americans has been falling with each passing year. You need to create “cartoons” to reach them …
Replying to comment from lance:
FWIW, this one got caught because the word ‘rxghtxes’ is in our filter, -5.
Every other one got caught because ‘cxnsxred’ is in the filter. Do you know why ‘cxnsxred’ is in the filter? Because Kate got pissed off with people complaining about her deleting their off-topic, rambling, wall of text comments.
-Well, that’s OK then.(you do know that it is Kate’s policy to NOT TELL people what is in the Filter? Yeah, Probably.)
Nevertheless, how is it that SDA can troll their own commenters on a Trump comment dealing with cxnsxrship, and then I’m somehow THE PRICK for using a word that Kate had secretly fxltxred because she was POed at trolls who she had Secretly filtered?!
I hope you have cognitive dissonance, because this is fxltxred word is anti-free speech, and yet you let NME666 write pretty much whatever he wants to.
Tsk tsk.
The problem isn’t so much what any one publication puts out but rather the obvious collusion because one publication never calls another publication on its lies and biases.
Libel and slander no longer exist, sorry to burst your bubble. Ruth already showed the hand of the supreme court in any case vs Donald Trump. When they came for the Christian bakers, Trump was silent. To paraphrase Niemöller.
“The problem isn’t so much what any one publication puts out but rather the obvious collusion because one publication never calls another publication on its lies and biases.”
Never say Never…Just wait for the NYT to run out of demonizing adjectives.. Trump just needs to keep the pedal down and ignore them….The MSM have entered the YELLOW Journalist Era and folks are never as stupid as they seem…..Trump will dominate the debates & Hillary won’t have a usable Hollywood script…
JMHO
Trump being correct, as he often is once the “OMG!!!! Can you believe what he SAID?!?!? “Phase ends, doesn’t get in Lance’s way of posting.
@Your Token Liberal:
“Wah wah wah. I though(t) the mainstream media was a dinosaur headed for extinction.”
Yes, it’s true. I am basically in agreement with you.
Politics is a rough game. Trump can point out the bias ….. but not too often or it will sound like whining and that will not go over well with people.
Historical Perspective: A biased press seeking to influence events is one of America’s oldest traditions. Slander in the press! Absolutely. For examples (since I’m currently on a U.S. Civil War reading binge)
1. Press report: General Grant was a drunk and was wasted at the battle of Shiloh and that’s why the battle was so bloody. Good thing he was saved by the arrival of General Buell.
2. Press report: General Sherman was insane while in command of the central area. He must have been because he stated that he would need at least 100,000 troops to defend the area. He should be relieved and committed.
More recently there was the Barry Goldwater “will lead us to nuclear war” meme. There are thousands more that could be cited. It’s a tradition in the U.S.
Politics is a mud bath. If you don’t want to get dirty, don’t play.
I wish I had any choice but to vote against Hillary Clinton. She must not win. I will vote for her opponent without even a second thought, she is that bad?
Tim, exactly correct. Once again, Donald is not the great defender of conservatism.