No one has read the Trans Pacific Partnership, so I’m going to restrain from commenting on it until that time.
Suffice to say, trade is what Canadians do and free access to more markets is always better.
So on that hopeful note, well done, Canada.
No one has read the Trans Pacific Partnership, so I’m going to restrain from commenting on it until that time.
Suffice to say, trade is what Canadians do and free access to more markets is always better.
So on that hopeful note, well done, Canada.
You’re right Lance; details have yet to be released. But naturally, that didn’t stop Mulcair from condemning it, promising to repeal it should he be given the chance. I recall ‘sneaky’ and ‘secret’ being key words in his argument. What a moron; Canada survives and thrives on trade. Even Trudeau recognizes that. Geez!
Thanks Lance! Looking forward to you ‘interpretation’.
If it moves us closer to eliminating supply management in dairy and poultry then it is a good thing.
The TPP provides the biggest problem for Junior who will have to craft some sort of mushy middle position. This could feed the “not ready” narrative.
I’m sure the the LBC is working hard to spin the story as a Harper sellout or failure.
I agree 100%, John Chittick.
My (frequent) travels through the U.S. confirm that we in Canada are paying +35% more than our American neighbors are paying for dairy products. I’m as loyal and patriotic as the next guy, so I’d be willing to pay +5% more for ‘made in Canada’ milk … but +35% more?! That’s just NUTS, but we’ve been paying that ‘protection money’ for decades – paying +35% more isn’t “patriotic”, it’s just STUPID!
UAW says the TPP is a complete disaster and will mean the end of auto manufacturing in Canada!
Not that they’d ever be guilty of hyperbole, or anything.
And since when is the free passage of goods and services a bad thing?
Maybe we should have free INTER PROVINCIAL trade in your cities, in CANADA!
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group ‘True North’
Likely more threat than hyperbole, it could mean the end of tariffs on autos and auto parts made in Pacific(read Japan/Korea) nations and that means the end of Auto Workers Unions here.
The Unions would rather kill auto manufacturing here and have the jobs shipped overseas, than to die all alone.
Kind of a Leftist “I’m taking you with me” going out with a bang thing.
*blech*
“If it moves us closer to eliminating supply management in dairy and poultry then it is a good thing.”
“…an additional 3.25 per cent of foreign imports would be allowed”
Sounds like peanuts to me.
Is Harper that terrified of Quebec dairy farmers?
Yeah….let’s cheer for more trans-national capital flows which destroy economies, families and lives. Let’s cheer for bureaucratic sock puppets voting to make their lives easier. Let’s support the Canadian Council of CEOs as their former-PCO staffers sell the vision to busy corporate officers. The “rules” will be interpreted as my grandfather used to joke about cribbage, “If you have “one” count “two” and peg “three”. Wait patiently for the other shoe to drop when they announce the “trade in service” portion of the deal (on page b-7) and siphon all profit from services to the criminals on Wall St. and the City of London.
The reason the negotiations had to be done in secret is there would be blood in the streets if the average Joe saw his children’s future being tossed in the crapper so apparatchiks can get their bonus cheques.
Doubling down on stupid is unlikely to yield the results we desire. The mercantilists are winning and trust me on this, they are NOT on our side.
Mulcair would take us out of the second largest free trade zone to protect a few cheese making surrender monkeys. He is one of them on both of his citizenships.
The lower prices observed for local US dairy products may readily be explained.They are heavily subsidized by the American taxpayer, part of the well known Farm Bill There are several other subsidies operating for dairy products exist, Export Incentives and the Food Stamp program. Suffice to say consumers pay the retail price plus their taxes going toward these subsidies.Under SM Canadian government pays zero subsidy on milk products.
Other factors are fairly obvious:The US industry is 14x as large, with many mega corporate farms, with up to 1000 cows. Energy, heating costs are lower particularly compared to Ont.
Finally loss leader prices on fluid milk play a role here.
No Canadian government of any stripe is going to dismantle SM and turn the fluid milk market over to the US, while they maintain their lucrative dairy subsidies.
Finally US milk may contain the BST hormone, illegal in Can, but not in US.
Todays deal is very fair, allowing a reasonable entry for imports, much lower than predicted.
No doom and gloom for the lefties, dairy markets not affected, auto sector not affected (though auto parts boom will result). This is a deal Harper can run with down the stretch. Trudeau wags his finger and says they’ll look at ratifying it, no doubt with NDP support eh?
My name is Stephen Harper and I am the only PM who can deliver on the TPP.
This feeds right into the theme of a weak & disunited opposition and adds policy meat to the discussion, where Trudeau is abysmal and loses votes.
I agree with Ibbitson, this deal is golden for Harper, and to a lesser extent Mulcair, though he’s against the grain in QC on free trade, but bad news for the pretender:
“Now Tory strategists are hoping that the signing of the TPP, as it’s known, will give the Conservatives an economic issue as powerful as the Islamic State mission and the niqab debate were on national security and social values. The Conservatives need to find five percentage points, give or take, of voters – the Persuadables, who voted Conservative in the past, and might do so again. Expect to see a heavy rotation of ads asserting that only Mr. Harper can be trusted to keep Canada safe and its economy strong. Janet Brown, a Calgary-based pollster and political analyst noted “They’ve made some bold moves and they’ve paid off.””
In the late stages of Britain’s election earlier this year, British Conservative Leader David Cameron warned of the dangers of a weak minority Labour government, which contributed to a voter shift that delivered a Conservative majority. Mr. Cameron was guided by current PMSH advisor Lynton Crosby, and Ms. Brown expects to see the same from Mr. Harper.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/tpp-deal-could-be-a-boon-for-harper-mulcair-for-entirely-different-reasons/article26648455/
Peter – trade negotiations are secret so that compromises can be reached without interference. It’s also why the agreement is usually available for ratification as a whole, and not line-by-line.
Martin – gee; it sounds like there are all sorts of reasons to allow free (or at least, free-er) trade in dairy products, if the US have such a a natural advantage with economies of scale and lower energy costs. I think your assertions are bullshit, but if you believe them, then you should expect the US to be a natural producer and Canada to be a natural consumer – you David Ricardo would tell us that we would be better off concentration in a product where we have a relative advantage. To the extent that US farms are subsidized – I welcome Washington subsidizing my food bill; why don’t you?
You’re batting for the wrong team peter. Do you have anything substantive to add to the discussion? BTW the negotiations weren’t done in secret, they just weren’t done in the media. Maybe we could send a CBC team to observe your next contract negotiations? Get real, if you or anyone else doesn’t avail themselves of the opportunity to look at what’s being proposed, tough luck. Your ignorance is not evidence of secrecy. Let me guess, Mel Hurtig is your hero.
“The mercantilists are winning and trust me on this, they are NOT on our side.”
I don’t think you understand what mercantilism was.
hint: It was anti-free trade…
High tariffs on foreign manufactured goods and finished products were a universal feature of mercantilism.
One of the root problems with the Greek economy is the large degree of mercantilism preventing, through tariffs and regulation, foreign investment and the establishment of foreign businesses in Greece.
Anyone who thinks there is such thing as free trade has never imported anything in to Canada or exported anything out of Canada. If there were such a thing there would be no need for brokers, B-13s, duty fees or taxes. Try importing a case of wine from California, selling anything into China, shipping something to Mexico. Duties, taxes, HST, brokerage fees, storage fees (while clearing customs). If you’re not shipping by air (ground transport Canada to Mexico, for example) you often need 2 brokers, or at least a freight forwarder on one end and a broker on the other.
There is no such thing as free trade.
8 out of every non-governmental jobs in Canada are directly tied to what we export.
Whenever the left hates something it’s because it doesn’t increase their ability for graft or doesn’t support their non productive base.
If Mulcair is dead set against we can all be assured that it’s a good thing for Canadians. No more research is required.
These deals are more about managed trade than free trade
Sure, quibble about the meaning of free trade. How about free-er trade.
Do you understand the benefits of free-er trade?
Or do you like having a regulated lack of competition(regulated, I might add, to suit the ‘Big Fish’ with lobbying power in the artificially created ‘little pond’) and all the ills that that causes?
Steve from Rockwood: Ha, forget trying to import California wine, try importing a case of wine from the Okanagan or a case of ice cider from Quebec to Ontario. That’s impossible (legally, at least). The fathers of Confederation formed Canada to eliminate barriers to trade. Our politicians ever since have been erecting new ones. We don’t have free trade inside of Canada, let alone with anyone else. Freer trade is always better, but even the TPP is baby steps at best. Still, it’s better than what the protectionist leftards would let us have.
They aren’t just assertions, you could look them up yourself.
The US dairy industry is 14x as large and able to supply fluid milk to Canadian near border market easily, if that is what is desired, but the BST growth hormone would be present.
The reason no government is keen to dismantle SM is the cost of compensation involved.Right now the cost to the government is zero.
The equity of dairy quota compensation was estimated by Conference Board to cost about$3-4B,but this is based on book value, market value is many times higher.Younger farmers have invested heavily in the quota system, their creditors would expect to be repaid.
Consumers usually do not envision paying any compensation, but the system was set in place 45 years ago and it is a legal requirement for supplying milk.Some form of compensation would be required and it would be much higher than todays $4.3B over 15 years. Consumers could pay increased taxes and never see firesale prices predicted for dairy products.
I don’t understand all the issues in this agreement but if it PO’s the Quebec dairy millionaires, Unifor, Maude Barlow and the Council of Canadians etc., then I’m all for it.
In Quebec we pay almost double what they do in Ontario. When are we going to get an interprovincial free trade agreement?
Oz, how about if you’re not lobbying the government you’re not in the trade agreement. Which means no free trade for you.
I am for free trade, not trade barriers, but I’m not for free-er trade if it only means cheaper cheese and milk. I can’t bring in a piece of electronics, or specialty cable, or partially assembled electronic hardware without paying broker fees, duty and taxes. Then, after I integrate those components with my own, to add lots of value, and I go to export it, my end user has to pay broker fees, duty and taxes all over again. We’re paying duty and taxes on duty and taxes. Because much of what I import comes directly from the US I would be better making stuff there and shipping it directly overseas. That is how “free trade” works for the little guy.
I mistakenly assumed most here read past the headlines. You need to understand that a bunch of sharpies scheming in back rooms (all nation state positions are defined by lobbyists who have worked the file longer than any bureaucrats)are unlikely to arrive at a consensus that doesn’t call for more bureaucratic big business and regulatory “minders” who collect their rewards via the public/private revolving door.
By granting favourable treatment to the insiders, the agreements tend to exclude innovation and decentralization and encourage status quo positions and greater concentration of power which greatly benefit the lobbyist’s firms who have shaped the file over decades.
In my personal experience at similar meetings, often the most complex questions are raised in the morning on the first day of the meeting to try and snow the jet lagged. Barring that big dogs will “threaten” little dogs with future “hard ball” absent concessions today.
As a former employer of mine was wont to say; “strongest bull f**ks”
I’ve been following the election closely, and the Tories and TPP are absolutely dominating the discussion today (for good reason). The other party leaders just look out to lunch today. Trudeau is talking about student loans; Mulcair is rambling on about arts funding. Important issues, sure, but they look like they’re tackling small-fry issues while Harper is out landing big fish. Not a good day for the opposition.
I was fortunate to receive an early briefing on the agricultural portion of the TPP this morning. It appears this is a good deal for Canadian farmers and considerably opens up new market opportunities. It does appear that supply managed farmers will have to adjust to increasing trade access but at the same time the approach in TPP seems to have strengthened the foundation of supply management in Canada. Despite the significant losses for dairy and poultry farmers that are in this deal I do not expect supply managed farmers to be that vocally opposed as they were seeking a balanced deal good for all farmers and that seems to have been achieved. As a chicken farmer, I am ecstatic that Minister Ritz listened to our advice and made huge market access gains for my farm friends in pork, beef and crop sectors who dearly needed this access. I hope now that this ground-breaking deal is accomplished farmers can stand side to side in rural Canada and work together on making sure agriculture has a strong voice in Canada.
The ‘clever folks’ in my neighborhood say this agreement just paves the way for more massive offshoring of whatever few production jobs that are left in the US. (shrug)
How tried several times to click on the link to this story at the CBC website to see how they have spun it against the PM, and I keep getting a notice “Sorry we can’t find the page you requested”, then after a few seconds you get redirected to the cbc “site-map” which is a convoluted mess of gobbedly-gook. Total B.S. I wonder if this is a ploy by the cbc to censor the story from the viewers, just like they did with the debates. Yep, our tax money in action.
John said “If it moves us closer to eliminating supply management in dairy and poultry then it is a good thing.”
Agreed 100% !
I’m sick and tired of dairy farmers in Canada and the racket they run. If I want to buy French butter and French cheese is should be easy to do.
The link at the cbc is working now. Guess it went into overwhelm from all the hair on fire and crumpling of tin foil hats from the HDS crowd.
Well the joke’s on you guys, because Guardian readers disagree with you.
Just visited the CBC site. Some 8300 comments on the TPP Treaty. All the ones I scanned through slagged the deal and, of course Harper. The magnitude of the stupidity expressed in the comments was stunning. The vitriol expressed was worse. Given the sheer stupidity on the part of those commenting, I wonder how they manage to remember to breathe.
Too bad they do.
Oh no, dairy farmers of Canada have come out in favour
Angry Tom to change out the foam around his mouth for a milk moustache
Next Free-Trade Deal === Free trade between provinces — now that would be a miracle.
Who knows, perhaps in my life time. It appears the Conservative Party is not interested in this …. SAD.
Too many Union jobs at stake if this idea passes (which is why the Non Democratic Party will not do this.
This might actually make Canadians like the results … the LIEberals do not want happy Canadians from coast to coast to coast.
Whenever the Conservatives suggest this, the Providences get angry because another province is stepping on their individual ideas.
Yes, wouldn’t TPP ver. 2.0 be something! Trans Provincial Partnership! I think all western provinces would sign on, but beyond that…?
“Oz, how about if you’re not lobbying the government you’re not in the trade agreement. Which means no free trade for you.”
So you’re against a free-er trade agreement for someone else just because it doesn’t help you???
Does it hinder you further? You didn’t mention that.
Because if it doesn’t hinder you further and you’re against it just because it doesn’t help you, that is a very sad position.
“the agreements tend to exclude innovation and decentralization and encourage status quo positions”
~peter
No, that’s what Tariffs do, they exclude innovation, encourage centralization, and re-enforce a status quo where the Big Fish in a nation has no competition.
Meanwhile, the citizens of that nation are virtually enslaved as consumers with no option but to buy the Big Fish’s crappy product or pay-through-the-nose for the superior foreign product, while the tariffs which make that foreign product more expensive(which are actually paid by the consumer) are handed in a gift package from the government to the Big Fish who lobbied the government to protect him with the tariffs and guarantee his crappy product continues to be crappy and more expensive then it would merit without government protection.
And to those who talk about job loss, the jobs lost are going to come from Unionized labour or from the Big Fish corporate interests who refuse to innovate/improve their product.
note: the regulatory economic environment, especially as it relates to so-called ‘Green’ environmental regulations for nations in the trade agreement, must be equal or jobs will go to the nation with least regulations.
This deal sucks
This deal was written by the corporations, for the corporations.
It was done behind closed doors, and anyone that leaked any info, was to go to prison.
Over 600 lobbyists have had full access to the text, but not even our opposition parties are allowed to see it. Why all the secrecy, simple they don’t want you to understand that for corporations to make more money. It involves you losing your job, and the competition will be curtailed for the good of the corporations. How do you have free trade with countries that use slave labor, pollute where they want, use their spy’s to steal our intellectual property while they manipulate their currency, there is nothing free about it. These type of deals fly in the face of true capitalism, something long dead.
Its not that we pay more, the us government heavily subsidizes its farmers. We pay at the store, they pay through taxes. This is why we would lose out to them.
Anybody else think angry Tom is hiding behind a hair naquib?
Was it his stint with the liberals or his short attempt at being a Tory that has led him to hide his fac?
Peter, Peter, Peter: “the us government heavily subsidizes its farmers. We pay at the store, they pay through taxes.”
Yeah, that’s why they have tax freedom day in April while ours’ is around June 10th.
You get a bingo! The leftists you mention are in it only for themselves and their bloodsucking organizations, while freer trade benefits all of us that actually produce products.
Thank you Prime Minister Harper.
The devil is always in the details,,no? And hence we arrive at the crux of the criticism. Just what are we giving up so we can get our milk 50 cents cheaper. No one knows because it is kept secret. More of Pelosi’s “we will have to pass this bill to know what is in it”. The leaked IP chapter of this TPP agreement is truly frightening. Corporations getting Nation State status is another.
http://www.ibtimes.com/trans-pacific-partnership-winners-toyota-japanese-automakers-could-still-use-mostly-2127095
Japanese carbuilders get to use even more chinese parts while still enjoying tariff protection under the deal. Horray for the dairy people and all that, but our future is not an agrarian one…
There is too much noise around this TPP deal and the media is promoting the noise as they report and ask questions about it.
The truth of the TPP is it is not a done deal untill parliament debates and passes our acceptance of the deal and all the I’s are dotted and the T’s crossed and the deal is released.This is a very complicated deal.
What Harper has done is got Canada’s foot in the door and we can be partners in the deal if our parliament passes after debate.
If Harper did not have Canada in on the negotiations and sign on to be a partner then Canada is left on the outside looking in with no chance of being part of this group.
All negotiations were conducted behind closed doors by all countries because that is the way trade deals can be done. This is nothing about Harper being secretive.
I have stopped giving a shit. It can all burn.