98 Years ago today, four Canadian divisions embarked on a 4-day offensive that accomplished what many felt could not be done. The loss to human life was enormous.
98 Years ago today, four Canadian divisions embarked on a 4-day offensive that accomplished what many felt could not be done. The loss to human life was enormous.
Simplistic. The French didn’t fight because they didn’t support Britain?? Almost every non-Quebecois had them simply pegged as cowards? Also, I am not sure we became a nation overnight because of Vimy. It took a lot of years of Liberal governments to kill the Canadian bond with Britain by severing each minuscule link one at a time.
Im going to the 100 year ceremony on site. already arranged.
will be my 4th time there . twice with the army.
Second guessing motivations from a century ago is fraught with difficulties, hence the problems with the “bad”. The “good” in this video is correct – all Canadians visiting Europe should make the trek to Vimy Ridge; it does wonders for patriotism and an appreciation of Canadians in the face of the enemy.
Pierre Burton credited some of the success to the fact that officers and enlisted men talked to each other, producing better intelligence and more innovative tactics.
In the British army it was traditional for officers to give orders and enlisted men to take them, full stop. Communication was all one way. The Canadian army, however, having mostly been newly assembled, wasn’t as encumbered by tradition.
The Great War the war to end all wars WW I airplanes and tanks were first used in combat and the use of gas as well
I hate half assed history cobbled together by ignorant twats. Reminds me of that shameful piece of garbage ” Passchendaele” that was foisted on people as real some years back.
Not to be picky, but it was 3 Canadian divisions and 1 Newfoundland and Labradorean division. It was the first time that all these battalions had fought along side each other.
Make that “..that all these divisions…”
it was the newfoundland REGIMENT – not division and it was known as Newfoundland – not NL&L. Nfld. didn’t have enough troops to muster a division. And i’m not sure they were directly involved in the vimy ridge battle
I’m planning to be at beaumont Hamel next july 1- the 100th anniversary of the first day of the somme (IMO the day the British Empire was struck a fatal blow and the day the Dominion of Newfoundland was snuffed out) – my grandfather was a blue puttee and one of the 65 out of over 600 who were able to answer the roll call the next day.
to get an idea of how hard Nfld. was hit by WW1 – easily the highest losses on either side – just scroll down the list of names of regiment members and how many were killed here:
http://www.therooms.ca/regiment/part3_database.asp
Sad that 100 years later we can’t put a single division into the field and have more generals than tanks. No army, navy or airforce to speak of and Russians becoming more belligerent not far from our northern shores. The USA has always had our back, but with Obama in power I’m not sure how much that’s worth. Nato has proven to be useless and China will need “lebensraum” soon. History has a nasty way of repeating itself and we seem to have learned nothing from sacrifices of the past. I look at that video with nostalgia and envy. Others look at it and wonder what the root cause was , secure in their own mind that it can’t possibly happen again. Also feeling secure in the knowledge that we are unarmed and all guns are evil. 35 million people in the second largest country on the planet. Unarmed and ripe for the picking. We have always punched above our weight but due to our bullying programs and the laws against hurt feelings, I hope we can convey to our potential enemies we really are a force to be reckoned with. We have videos to prove it.
The 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Canadian Infantry Divisions fought at Vimy. No Newfies. They were elsewhere.
I heard on the news today that police are now guarding the soldiers who are guarding the National War Memorial. WTF, can’t our soldiers defend themselves? Insane!
Doug many years ago I was talking to a former nurse who worked for the Armed Forces in Ottawa. She said that they regularly tended the sentries for hat pin stabbings. From what she said regular folk just couldn’t believe those were real men in uniform and would stick hat pins into the men to see if they could make them flinch. I decided sentry duty was not for me because if Granny Hat Pin stuck me while on duty she would be waking up next week.
The video should be displaying the Canadian flag, the Red Ensign, whenever referring to Vimy Ridge as that was the flag Canadians raised after victory on the battlefield. The Imperial War Museum displays the actual Red Ensign Canadians raised after victory on Vimy Ridge to this day. IMO its a distortion of history and an insult to the soldiers that fought those battles to not show the Red Ensign they fought and died under. The Liberals wouldn’t condemn the Red Ensign to the dustbin of history, and that commie nit-wit Pearson wouldn’t impose the Liberal Party Maple Leaf flag until decades later, 1964.
The Royal Newfoundland Regiment fought with the British 29th Division. They were not at Vimy.
In two weeks on the 22nd/23rd April, around 7:45pm Atlantic time, is the hundredth anniversary of the assault on Kitcheners Wood the first night of Second Ypres. My tongue is not fully in my cheek when I say it was the battle that decided the fate of Germany. The story of the Canadian Corp is incredible. Arthur Currie was one of the greatest Generals in history.
Exactly!
PeterJ, that comes from decades of the Liberal “hate the military mindset” in our government and bureaucracy. Mulroney did nothing to improve this and Harper has made tentative efforts to address this but has not followed through.
DON’T F with the Newfies, or you will have 17 brothers & 34 uncles in the fight. Its the blood line that may only shows up @ screech time!
I will never forget.
It was actually second Ypres (100th anniversary in a few weeks) which *started* the road to the victory at Vimy Ridge 2 years later.
An unblooded undertrained battalion of the CEF was put into the line between 2 French Divisions and a British division. The Germans used gas for the first time on the Western Front. The French divisions disintegrated. The British fell back. And the Canadians stood, and fought, and many died and many were wounded. Their guts impressed the British command sufficiently to overcome the snooty attitude British officers had for ‘colonials’.
And ‘attitude’ showed up then and later, when Canadian soldiers made it clear that they wanted to be lead by Canadian officers. It took 2 years, but by that time the CEF had sufficiently impressed the doubters, that Canada got its own corp: 4 divisions lead entirely by Canadian officers, fighting together, and not as individual battalions, put into the line with “older” troops to support *them*.
It was Ypres which started that climb.It was Vimy which showed for the first time how far the effort had grown.
It was the full First Division, 12 Battalions. 3 British Divisions to their right, French Muslim Colonials to their left. The French got the gas and broke, the Canadians and some British battalions in reserve moved by the left to fill the gap.
And the Corps formed under somewhat different circumstances than you describe. A lot of misinformation about and that is a problem.
As a kid, I used to sit at the feet of my great-great-uncle (who was at pretty much every major battle from May 1916 onwards) and listen to his incredibly detailed stories.. He was at Vimy and he described the background and set-up somewhat differently from the mythological version that has grown over the years.
According to him, the British had no confidence in the Canadian leadership (as opposed to the soldiers – whom they respected very much as warriors). From the beginning of the war, Canadian military brass and politicians had been nagging the Brits to let our generals lead a major operation. Quite frankly, the Brits weren’t sure our generals could handle it. But finally, orders came from the British political leaders to let the Canadian generals have something…a “throw them a bone” kind of thing. So, they were given Vimy. But not because it was a major “strategic” objective that the Canadians could be relied on to deliver. Vimy was a lesser tactical objective of the much larger Arras offensive (which was generally a failure overall). The Brits didn’t think Vimy could be taken – so they had actually given it to Canadians because they expected us to fail and they wanted to make sure that we had an objective that was unimportant enough that it wouldn’t matter match if (when) we failed.
The reason the Canadians were all brought together was not because they were a respected fighting force (which they were). It was because the British officers were not happy that they were being forced to give Canadian generals a lead role and their thinking was, “You Canadians [meaning Canadian Generals] want a lead role. Fine. But then you’re only getting Canadian soldiers. That way, when you guys screw this up, you’re only going to lead Canadians to slaughter. We’re not trusting you with the lives of our country-men.”
Moreover, the men of the four Canadian Expeditionary Forces were not happy with the situation either. Over time, they had formed bonds with other units from other countries (Like the 1st CEF were tight with the 2nd Scottish Highlanders; the 3rd CEF saw the British 2nd Army and the ANZACs as their brothers). They had gotten to know these guys and were not interested in being pulled away from these groups they had come to know and trust. They resented being pushed together with the other Canadian divisions for no better reason than to try to give Canadian generals and politicians some extra glory.
Now, of course, the Canadians did a great job and surprised everyone. But, the story I was told was that, when it was over, most Canadian soldiers reacted by saying, “Fine, we took your damned objective. Can we get back to our real [respective] brothers now?”
According to my source (God rest his soul), the four Canadian Divisions didn’t really start to feel the pride and bonds attributed by historians to Vimy until Passchendaele. And by the time of Canada’s Hundred Days, they were a cemented band of brothers. It was only after they returned to Canada and discovered that the newspapers and politicians had been making a big deal out of Vimy that they started saying to each other, “Yeah, I guess we were all together on that one too.”
Anyway, that is the story as it was told to me.
The scuttlebutt at the time was the British High Command was scandalized that the Canadians were briefing all ranks as to timing and objectives. Their practice was everything on a need to know basis which left units leaderless with no idea of objectives etc due to officers becoming hors de combat.
The German High Command took the opposite tack and carefully studied and adopted the Canadian methods and created their “Sturm Troopen” (Storm troopers) with some success….too little and too late.
The Battle of Amiens was what broke the German resistance….it implemented combined operations…in effect what came to be known as Blitzkreig…..tanks and infantry, with heavy (and mobile) artillery support and close air support. Despite the offensive faltering on the 2nd and 3rd days…due to breakdowns of aircraft and especially tanks…..the damage was done….
One problem was that tank crews were operationally useless after a day in the action….fumes and heat….This was to primary reason for the revolutionary Renault FT’s separate engine compartment.
Scar
French Canadians were non-supporters in both wars…..due to a combination of anglophobia and isolationism. Time and distance had eliminated any loyalty to France……revolting people….
Actually the loses were only “enormous by current standards……by the standards of the western front of WW1 the losses were very light.
This makes for somber reading…..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_by_casualties
Remember there were 51,000 casualties at Gettysburg…..
Verdun…we may never know….estimates are fractions of millions….
Historians represent that the Germans lost WW1 at Verdun and France lost the Battle of France in 1940…due to losses at Verdun.
Have photo of grandfather, a small oval within a large matte for his regiment, the 62nd Battalion of the CEF, commemorating his joining the regiment. Grandad is saluting, but so is my father, a very young boy standing in front of his dad. The story I had was that this battalion eventually became part of Tobin’s Tigers (the 29th Battalion), a renowned batch of soldiers. So Grandad was probably present at Vimy as well as at a lot of other battles.
Some 50 plus years after WW I, chanced to rent a half duplex in Vancouver. The man living in the basement of the other side came out, took one look at my father, and recognized him as looking very like Grandad with whom this man had served. There were still members of the regiment alive then, so I was taken to a several events as a regimental granddaughter. Still remember those days, and old Denny who introduced me to a part of my past I didn’t know.
Grim reading indeed…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties
For a wider focus on the slaughterhouse that became Europe.
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group ‘True North’
My Grandfather Harry Hardcastle fought at Vimy! He was with a Canadian Division but assigned to an International group called the Signallers . He wouldn’t talk about the war and only on a few occasions did he tell me stories about it. His general comment was “War is Hell”! Thanks for Remembering!
Canadians should be asking why? Why did so many have to die in France to protect a trade system designed to protect Britain and France from a newly united Germany. Bottom line the new Germany was taking trade away from the others. Germany was being shut out of resources and markets.
Instead of forcing the Euros to peace we helped them fight. The Americans did the same when they came in 1917. The last German offensive had Britain and France on their knees. Germany lobbied for a negociated peace in 1917 but were turned down when the Americans entered the war.
That peace could have prevented WW II and Hitler.
Good God! I give up. More historical ignorance than you can shake a stick at. How about Americans won the war or war is bad for flowers and children so stop it?
In 1918 American troops were arriving in France at the rate of 10,000 per day. Canada had only 100,000 troops in France ay any one time. The American army mobilized a total of 4 million compared to our 600,000 and they lost 110,000 compared to our 60,000. I guess those American slackers had nothing to do with the victory.
the list seems somewhat remiss , I believe Napoleon lost near 500000 on the retreat from Moscow. not a pitched battle but a constant harassment that made the grande armee freeze to death in the snow. A technique the Russians reemployed in WWII , withdraw until your supply lines are too long , let the winter take care of most of the enemy then come back through.
Naturally the young (?) people who prepared the video either ignored or do not know Canadian Major General Currie, enlisted as a Corporal, actually used the information learned from his interaction with the Staff Officers of the French Army.
It was Currie who developed the plans and initiated the training which led to to the far greater impact of the loss of Vimy Ridge, on the morale of the German Troops. A short review of the German Publications after WW Two debacle of “Dieppe” describes how much respect the Germans in the general population thought of the Canadian Soldiers. I won’t go into how much distain the Britsh Command had for the Canadians lifes at that time.
Back to Major General Currie. British Prime Minister Lloyd-George stated after WW One-politics or not- if he had to fight the war again he would appoint Canadian General Currie instead of British General Haig as G.O.C (General Officer Commanding).
My Grandfather enlisted August 30th, 1914 and was critically wounded in April 1915. He was therefore not in the trenches when the Germans gassed the Colonial Troops-Canadians & French Noir (Algierian). Many of my Grandfather’s mates were gassed. Family lore has it the Canadians were the first to piss on their handkerchiefs and place the damp cloth over their nose and mouth to reduce the effect of the gas clouds.
As the world focused on — and exhausted itself in — the Great War, the Bolsheviks setup a totalitarian state in the backwaters of agrarian Russia.
Here in North America, politicians used the Great War as an excuse to introduce a temporary tax, the Income Tax.
Did anyone think about these side effects while embroiled in the heat of war?
“It is in war that the State really comes into its own: swelling in power, in number, in pride, in absolute dominion over the economy and the society.”
― Murray N. Rothbard