Not to be cynical but he had a Winchester 30-30, seven-round capacity, and slow re-load. See this twitter exchange. How many people could he have killed in any event before being killed himself?
As only to be expected none of our ace journos have noticed (nor would even know about) this simple fact. One wonders why the RCMP does not mention it.
Did he derail a train? No.
Did he plant a bomb? No.
Did he bring in Ebola infected suicide weapons? No.
Crash a car through a crowd? Poison the city water system? Ignite a few wooded residential community’s during the dry season as an arsonist? No, no & no.
No there’s allot of things he could have done aside from picking up a few guns that was thwarted by a little old man with his own gun.
Imagine if there were several people around that could have stopped him even sooner.
A 30-30 will lever about as fast as bolt (my Marlin will anyway), but it’s slow to reload, and if you ram load it with hard points, well, cough, chain-fire he said… If he hadn’t pulled the plug he’d have only 5…
But as he showed, old 30-30s can still kill.
Anybody remember watching Chuck Connors as The Rifleman on TV, lo, these many years ago? He could get shots off pretty damned fast with his lever-action.
Not that I would expect a crazy half-Arab muzzie to do anything so logical as practice.
On the other hand, if Canada had the looser US-style gun control laws that some folks here are endlessly demanding, then he could easily have shown up with any number of far-deadlier firearms that are readily available to wannabe mass shooters south of the border.
And Kt, more likely to have met armed civilians who would have made him reconsider the error of his new ways.
Not that wannabes in the US generally have much more success than this nitwit, unless they are a victime disarmament zone, like a school.
kt, he could have found much more effective and legal weapons right here in Canada.
Don’t let the media make you ignorant.
Markon: But himself could not legally buy those better weapons–or any kind–here; would be interesting to know how he got the 30-30 and how much ammo he had:
http://montrealgazette.com/news/national/1024-city-gun
Mark
Ottawa
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/23/us-canada-attacks-shooting-idUSKCN0IB1PY20141023
Had no links? They were both muslim
Kit, like an AR? The equivalent hunting rifle is as easy to get in Canada as the one he used.
KT for effs sakes, with the possible exception of an ar or an AK, there isn’t much different between Canadian and American availability, In fact, in some cases, we can get better rifles than the Americans because they embargo several countries.
For example, he could have bought a Tavor, a type 97 norinco, a VZ 98, or any number of M 1A clones. The rifle he used was a common deer hunting lever action and there’s likely millions of them in Canada. an AR 15 has less power than that old bruiser, The reason he used it was likely he couldn’t get anything else.
Incidentally, google some of those rifles I identified, get some smelling salts out first.
gordinkneehill “Anybody remember watching Chuck Connors as The Rifleman on TV, lo, these many years ago? He could get shots off pretty damned fast with his lever-action.”
Since we saw it on TV, why didn’t he just have Scotty transport him into Parliament? Darn! I guess we both forgot that TV isn’t real.
He could have bought an AR15 like the cops have. Since they have guards without bullets in their rifles, I am amazed that the sergeant-at-arms was actually allowed to have a gun. It would have ended much quicker if the soldiers had bullets, but you can’t actually trust soldiers.
Deadlier than a 30-30? 30-30 will bring down a moose. Has, many. The only thing that makes a difference on how many people get killed is time, not the gun. A single shot .22 will kill as many people as any other gun, just takes a little longer. It’s never been about the firepower. Don’t let the media keep you stupid.
He killed the honor Guard at the War Memorial, he caused gun fire and bloodshed in the heart of Parliament. He was on a purely symbolic mission and he succeeded in showing Canada that it is vulnerable to the power of Islam. I think most Muslims would call it a job well done. They will hit a mall or something when the mission is to stack up bodies and not attack symbols. Muslims are all about symbolic acts.
Among the unarmed subjects of Canada he should have been able to kill a person for every 2 or 3 rounds expended. Nothing to stop him until he meets superior fire power or skill. Which is what happened – but how close to the Prime Minister was he ?
Here in the US I routinely open carry my .454 pistol (bear gun) and I would not be eager to take on a terrorist with a rifle. I’ve seen what a 30-30 does to a deer. I’d be looking to hide just like the MPs.
Yesterday Evan Solomon, CBC firearm expert,referred to it being an assault rifle. Breathlessly.
Whenever anything like this happens, either here or south of the border, the liberal/democrats all come out from their hidey-holes after the fact and scream for more gun control. Now that reality has hit home here in Canada it is about time to really address the situation. Point of fact is that you will never remove all of the guns in circulation, legal or otherwise, therefore it would be better to have a constitutional right to self protect. Really simple, since we can’t get rid of ALL the guns then the next best thing is to legally arm Canadian citizens that desire to self protect, sort of like leveling the playing field. Israel and Switzerland are examples that come to mind, Chicago on the other hand is a prime example where the strict gun control laws have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that restrictive legislation is an abject failure. When Gamil Gharbi ordered all of the males out of the classroom at the Ecole Polytechnique did you ever wonder what would have happened if one of them had been carrying? The sad thing is that most Canadians have been brainwashed into believing that guns are bad, whereas the truth of the matter is that some people are bad and guns are only one of a number of items that they will use the commit mayhem. Guns in the hands of good people are why we have a free society today and that was sadly pointed out yesterday at the War Memorial, a Reservist that the Government can call up and order into battle on behalf of our society was cut down in his prime without a chance to defend himself. Are we content to wait until one of these ‘radicalized’ animals drives into a school or office building in Canada and commits an atrocity that will again shock us all, or are we ready to face reality and ‘level the playing field’.
30-30 with proper ammo will easily over penetrate a single human without body armour. If he fired it into crowd you would have multiple casualties from every round. 30-30 round carries more energy than the AK’s 7.62×39, 5.56 NATO or 44 Magnum.
I wonder if there is a secret website like journolist, where the moderate choir boy community organizers like Abdul and Michael Brown go to plot their peaceful moderate mass killings?
Hey Kt two questions for you:
How many high profile shooting in US over the last decade can you mention, that did NOT happen in gun free zones? The shooting of Gabbie Gifford and… exactly.
What stopped the shooter in Ottawa and the one in Quebec?
1. The power of positive thinking.
2. Singing kumbaya while holding hands.
3. A gun armed individual.
Pick one, go on, don’t be shy.
Oh, and please visit this page to educate yourself what kind of hardware is available in gun free Canada (try not to soil your depends while at it): http://www.wolverinesupplies.com
Antenor, I agree with your general point but wanted to add that even if criminals did not have guns it is not be a reason to disarm the populace. A guy who spent last few years lifting weights in prison does not need a gun to victimize and average homeowner after he breaks an insurmountable barrier like a screen door. A gun in in the hands of the homeowner is the best deterrent and equalizer.
Boycotting everything Muslim in your locale would have more weight right now than concealed carry. Put some financial bullets in their empty heads and hearts. And for your own health, never eat anything a Muslim makes for an unbeliever to eat.
I see one of our favorite Liberal MPs has decided to bless us with her views.. Slightly OT but give it a spin
http://therightscoop.com/canadian-politician-says-not-to-speculate-aboot-shooters-motivations-but-defends-islam-on-twitter/
Against my better judgement, I had CBC news streaming on my laptop while this was happened. Someone at the CBC remarked that an eye witness described the shooter’s rifle as being a “very long” rifle, and the witness stretched out her arms for emphasis. The CBC dude then said “so the shooter had a long rifle, obviously a long assault rifle”. Can’t believe that I pay these people.
The “very long” comment stuck with me, though. Later on in the coverage, the term “single shot” came up. Made me wonder if the shooter may have been carrying a Mosin Nagant. They’re longer than most people would expect. And the bolt can be hard to open if you’re not familiar with them, thus perhaps making a witness think it was a “single shot” rifle. 91/30’s are plentiful and cheap, as is surplus ammo for them.
Has it been confirmed that the gun used during the shooting was the 30-30 lever action? I know that’s what it looks like the shooter is posing with in his social media selfie, but do we know for certain that’s what was used to commit the crimes?
“Boycotting everything Muslim in your locale would have more weight right now than concealed carry…”
There are people here who are not doing it already?
The real challenge is nut control, not gun control. He could have done far more damage with a machete or a hatchet in a crowded public space. I’m sure a lot of effort will be spent looking for root causes while desperately avoiding the fact that for years to come it is actually a Muslim problem and totally predictable when you see what’s happening in Europe and the world in general. I mean…….what’s so difficult in understanding that these people hate everything about Christianity and western lifestyle ? The nut control I’m talking about is in our immigration dept.and anyone who believes there is a chance these people will ever become mainstream Canadians.
Am coming late to the party, so to speak, but wonder – given the shooter had been living some days at a shelter – just where he had stashed (or obtained) gun and car.
“How many people could he have killed in any event before being killed himself?”
This question lacks seriousness and is seemingly devoid of any firearms related experience.
The choice of firearm, or weapon for that matter, is of far less consequence than almost every other aspect of the given scenario. The intent, skill, and planning of the perpetrator has far greater impact on the outcome. But noting has greater impact than the proximity of the nearest armed responder.
With any lever, you could drop rounds one at a time into the ejector port and still maintain a respectable rate of fire.
A sporting rifle like the 94 can easily be used to kill many people. More powerful than a handgun, far more accurate. And those lever actions are very fast to operate and would give away nothing to a semi-auto in this instance. And that side loading port means that although there is no box magazine to instantly refresh to a full load, single rounds can be loaded in in seconds and constantly, even with a round in the chamber.
Folks “Kt” is just another of the useless brain-dead leftist trolls who plague this board with parroted bull$hiit intended to waste our time and cause frustration. Probably posted here hundreds of times under different nicks. Feck ‘im.
Ya that’s what the Chinese are dealing with in the Uyghur Jihadis. They’re stabby, slashy and car crashy.
You mean, like striking the WTC on Sept. 11, the anniversary of the last day of victorious battle by Muslims during the last siege of Vienna?
So, we know it was a .30-30 do we? Finally.
“How many people could he have killed in any event before being killed himself?”
This is a foolish question. Seven or more, if he wasn’t a mentally ill wanker. Because a .30-30 hits about twice as hard as a .223, and does about twice the damage due to bullet weight and configuration.
.223 hardball is a weapon of war deliberately designed to cause serious -injuries- in -humans-, to tie up enemy resources transporting their wounded. .30-30 is designed to kill deer sized animals immediately so that you don’t have to chase your dinner all over the woods. Meaning one round center of mass will easily kill a human.
Lots of guys use the Winchester lever gun in Cowboy 3 gun matches, they are effective and efficient.
We got -lucky- this time, my friends.
One dead unarmed soldier wasn’t enough
As usual these “Islamists ” are chicken
anyone on the communist broadcasting company who claims to be an expert on anyone I automatically downgrade to a lying whanabe.
Rate of fire is irrelevant if you miss.
An inexperienced jihadi with any firearm is like a cow with a musket.
I surmise from accounts of the incident that his one victim was basically point blank… That Kevin Vickers managed to crawl into pistol engagement range uninjured, exposed on a stone floor, is evidence this jihadi could not hit the broad side of a barn.
A Model 94 should easily group into 1/2 a minute of angle(2″ at 100M)…Vickers represented a relatively huge target for a rifle…. at least 20 minutes….probably over 100 minutes of angle.
Vickers was extremely lucky….or fool-hardy. His success/survival also likely hinged on covering fire…..video indicated MP’s examining the Library door…
“Vickers was extremely lucky….or fool-hardy.”
I would describe him as dutiful, determined, skilled, courageous, keen, dedicated. His son is in the RCMP too.
“Vickers was extremely lucky….or fool-hardy.”
If I had to characterize his reaction … I would probably pick “successful”.
“Muslims? Who said anything about Muslims? Nope, no Muslims here.
This is all the fault of a total lack of any gun control, pure and simple.”
Watch for it, that’s exactly where the narrative is headed. Corporal Cirillo’s body wasn’t even cold before the wonks started gushing publicly about how they’re going to use this to attack the Tories over the cancelled Long Gun Registry.
Kt >
“……if Canada had the looser US-style gun control laws that some folks here are endlessly demanding”
Like Mexico, how’s that gun prohibition working out?
As already stated on this thread, there are a hell of allot more guns and other weapons that would have been far more “deadly “and easily attainable in Canada, legally or otherwise.
BTW –We advocate Gun Rights, coupled with the right to protect life and liberty – Opposed to your totalitarian “Gun Control” and disarmament wishes that have pervaded every “evil” society in human history.
So please excuse us if we give a flying f*ck what you think or want in our society.
sasquatch >
“That Kevin Vickers managed to crawl into pistol engagement range uninjured, exposed on a stone floor, is evidence this jihadi could not hit the broad side of a barn.”
Couple that with some Run’n & Gun’n as shown in the videos. It takes allot of training to get the heart rate and breathing down enough to take steady aim after sprinting.
This was a suicidal act or just plain crazy at the end of the day, jihadist or not.
As I’ve relentlessly ranted on previous threads, Canadian conservatives need to start focusing our attentions on the “enemy within”.
This was not the first time Canada has dealt with an internal Islamic threat – remember the Toronto 18?
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/ottawa-shooting-in-the-shadow-of-the-toronto-18/
Oh yea, them.
Well there’s going to be a hell of allot more in Canada’s future if the average Canadian conservative is going to sit by and ignore the problem of Islam setting up shop in our Sanctuary Country.
First and foremost the biggest enemy to Canada is the treasons Liberal Left who leaves the doors open and invites these animals in. Second is the apathetic “conservatives” who would rather get their play by plays from the MSM while buying into the Liberal/ globalist drivel fed to them about the Middle East.
Otherwise enjoy the gated communities, full time government surveillance, and plenty of militarized police roaming your communities “for your protection”.
Most of the leftwing journalists covering the terrorist attack in Ottawa don’t understand a thing about guns. A Winchester 30-30, while much more powerful than the so-called assault rifles like AR-15 and AK-47, is on the low end for hunting rifles. A 270, 7mm, 30-06, or 300 Winchester magnum all have much more firepower.
Jungle Jim >
Yes, and imagine what could have happened had this guy used a scoped 30-06 or something equivalent from a hilltop on unsuspecting crowds or a freeway etcetera.
Then drove away for another day.
Personally I think this was a suicide by cop/ martyr situation. Once the guys passport was revoked it was only a matter of time until he ended up in jail somewhere, and he knew it.
Thank god that he didn’t use a suicide vest in a mall or on a crowded public transport like they do in Israel.
The reality is this lone Jihadist nutter made it pretty far into a fairly unsecure Canadian Parliament building. Also imagine if he brought friends. Like a dozen or two dozen like minded and well armed Jihadists.
This would have been a very different story.
…aaaannnd Kt is gone. But he’ll be back folks, just you wait, under whatever new nick takes the least (yawn, damn but that 30%+ THC quantum chronic saps a body’s energy) effort to type.
See you soon, dip$hit…
Major media finally notice that Winchester 1894 not good for mass murder–but still don’t understand firearms:
http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2014/10/24/gunman-chose-slow-loading-rifle-for-attack/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/low-tech-weapon-probably-limited-zehaf-bibeaus-damage/article21305403/#dashboard/follows/
Mark
Ottawa