And it is obvious to me that rampant bribery and corruption/bad cops/a shitty legal system/international drug dealing, drunk driving, littering, recreational animal abuse, violent crime, the sexualization of 15 year old girls, an aversion to higher education and the bizarre compulsion to ruin perfectly fine automobiles are NOT “conservative values.”
Has Marco Rubio been notified of this..?
VDH does an excellent job rebuking Krauthammer here: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/333244/latino-vote-obsession-victor-davis-hanson
As to the natural conservative bent of the average Mexican in America, I can’t say I agree with Charles on that either. I’m in a big band that occasionally plays gigs for Catholic fund raising events in a town with around 15% (Mexican and Guatemalan) population and they are nowhere to be seen at such events if that is significant.
Ghetto behavior in ghettos is not limited to any single identity group and I wouldn’t single out Latinos as more inclined than Blacks or Asians despite the Southern California examples.
I have to agree with you, John Chittick. Trash is trash, no matter who or where they are.
Is there anyone who wants to vote as an American? If Hispanic people (by and large) feel that their former countries and the qualities thereof were so good, they would not have snuck in illegally. Giving them amnesty, or anything else, is a slap in the face to legal immigrants and residents who’ve worked hard to be American the right way.
synchronox CUBAN americans are nothing like Mexicans.
The excuse starting out was that the GOP presidential field
was weak but the objective was to hold the HOUSE and
take control of the SENATE so it didn’t really matter.
Then they got ambitious. Big mistake.
When you have trouble calling Barrack Obama and his idiot
VP sidekick to account in a loud sure voice, isn’t there some-
thing very wrong with your game strategy?
Those “missing McCain votes”? Maybe they didn’t go missing.
Perhaps they were disgusted Palin supporters.
No one seems to be trying too hard to find out.
.
I was referring more to Rubio being identified as the Republican great brown hope…
I posted a video by Bill whittle on this very subject. It was eaten of course , but what he says is very ninmportant in this Post political age. How to fight the culture we have fallen into
by allowing the Socialists to let it happen.
Perhaps it was the shock of the election, but the normally rational Michael Coren was babbling last week about an immigration deal because of all those socially conservative, pro-life Mexicans.
I suspect coren was getting delirious about the thought of a strong pro-life electorate, but he was seriously deluded. They ignored their alleged pro-life beliefs and voted for an aggressively pro-abortion party.
Even their famous family values apparently translate to a belief that the family is really important so the government should provide handouts. A lot.
I think we tend to look at Mexico as a country populated by Mexicans, which is logical enough. But Mexico is a new world country created by Europeans. The difference between Mexico and Canada is that there are a lot more aboriginal people and people of aboriginal/European/mixed race people than in Canada. There are a sizable number of people in Mexico who still don’t even speak Spanish. Imagine what Canada would be like if we had 50$ aboriginal people. Most mexicans are not that far removed from the stone age and mass human sacrifice to appease various gods.
In response to Minuteman:
“But Mexico is a new world country created by Europeans”
True, but it was created by the Spanish. Only England was successful in creating colonies which carried on the tradition of the rule of law and equal rights under the law.
“Most Mexicans are not that far removed from the stone age and mass human sacrifice to appease various gods.”
Not exactly. Most Mexicans are Catholic, even though the corrupt government has persecuted them horribly over the years.
” Imagine what Canada would be like if we had 50$ aboriginal people.”
I see a lot of Mexican immigrants where I live, and very few show any aboriginal genetic traits. Many could pass for European immigrants, for genetically that is what they primarily are.
Having said that, I have been to Mexico and other South American countries. Without exception, the countries are remarkably dirty. There is litter everywhere. While they may be ostensibly Catholic, only the old people spend much time in church. By many accounts, the young ones are not the conservatives that many in the Republican party hope they are.
That video of low riders Kathy’s got there is a little misleading. Those guys with the crazy cars ARE the middle class conservative ones. The scumbags deal crack on street corners and don’t dare show their faces at family events like the car show.
Yeah, that was a family event. Am I communicating here?
No kidding, Phantom, those cars cost a lot of time and money to build and maintain. My buddy has a pro-street Firebird in his garage, (much to the wife’s displeasure). Not gangster at all.
dw
I live in Texas and interact with more Mexican people than most on this board, and like any culture, they have the good and the bad. My next door neighbors are a fine Mexican family with conservative values and a beautiful house and yard, so stereotypes are everywhere to the contrary to this.
Keep in mind, that most Mexican families I know take care of their own. In fact, my neighbor’s mother, who appears to be in her late ’70’s, live with them and is a core member of their household.
Family means everything to most Mexican families I know.
I hate it when stereotypes are tossed around as there are bad apples everywhere.
Most people I have met of Mexican descent are good upstanding members of society, and yes, they are socially conservative.
Even worse, then. Middle class people might want to invest their extra $ in something like their kid’s (STEM) college fund than in car mutilation.
Someone needs to explain to these radical pro-lifers:
Abortion is a very effective way to balance the family’s food budget.(boy do I feel dirty now…)
The “Adam Corolla on Mexicans in LA” link expressed precisely what I was trying to relay on the first Cinco De Mayo thread yesterday. Spot on Adam.
Kathy speaks! Hi Kathy! 🙂 Welcome home where there’s no bombs raining on you.
In reference to your car mutilation comment and also to the excellent comment by Texas at 8:39AM; I’ve dealt with quite a few Mexican guys over the years in Arizona, and oddly enough in rural Minnesota as well. My experience parallels Texas’, the people I deal with are uniformly hard working and honest enough to be getting on with, if you get what I’m saying. No different to deal with than White people for the most part.
In terms of ability, I have to tell you that car show represents some -very- high tech car mutilation. Low riders are technically challenging to build from a fabrication and hydraulic control standpoint. These guys are not stupid. So really, reasonable people from a reasonable culture.
BUT, and this is the place where I agree with Kathy, its not OUR culture.
Taking car guys only now, in Phoenix you find that the Mexicans with their super spiff low riders DO NOT go to the regular car shows. They have their own. They don’t even go to the same ‘Rod and speed shops, they have their own. Their idea of a beautiful car is profoundly different from the standard gearhead’s idea.
Look at the cars for a second. A regular American hot rod has its roots in a jalopy from the 1930s that some -kid- in the 1950s bought and made it go faster. American hot rod culture is at base a -racing- culture, what is “cool” varies greatly but its about driving and racing your car. Fast is -always- cool. Classic dirt track, desert racing, roundy round racing, drag racing, road racing, Bonneville speed records, its all -racing-. Functionality. Bigger better faster stronger.
Low riders are different. Its about showing off. Guys spend a lot of time and money on fur-lined engine bays (not lying!), chrome plated suspension components, crazy hydraulic systems that reduce the driving functionality of the car but make it able to do acrobatics.
I can appreciate the technical details of the cars and the beauty of the paintwork etc., but I don’t -want- one. Show me a scruffy Model T with a blown Hemi and slicks on the back, that I want. Like Sasquatch always says, t’ain’t good, t’ain’t bad, just is.
Texas will concede these cultural differences are not confined to cars.
So you suddenly create 12 million voters in the country who don’t share your basic cultural values, you are going to get friction.
Friction is bad. We don’t like friction. Causes heat and wears things out.
Good people are good people wherever they may come from; like wise bad people.
Some people assume that because Mexicans are mostly Roman Catholic, that they are naturally pro-life, and naturally conservative. But remember that “liberation theology” got it’s start in Mexico and Latin America, and liberation theology is just thinly-disguised Marxism.
There are conservative Catholics and indeed even conservative protestants in Mexico, but those folks are likely under-represented in the ranks of the illegal immigrants because they have what it takes to do well in their home country.
Devolved culture (squalor, disease, crime, political corruption etc.) is carried by the illegal diaspora from many countries.
Mexican Americans (citizens) of 1 or more generations are some of the finest hard working people you will find anywhere. Perhaps Krauthammer was referring to this demographic instead of the illegal alien culture.
Some of the hardest working people I know are Mexican. For instance, Arturo, a short rotund man who does the janitorial work at my workplace, is always moving, doing things, and is always cheerful, and speaks to me when we pass in the hallway. he does have a thick accent, but is easy to understand. He is the epitome of a hard worker.
That being said though, the factory shift manager is also Mexican, and is very well spoken and knowledgeable, and is also a hard worker, although in a very different way. Daniel supports all of us in our endeavor to produce the best electronic components that we can. I have a lot of respect for him.
Also, his mom is one of the factory operations workers, and she works very diligently as well. He brings her to work with him, because I see him drop her off at the employee entrance every morning. he takes care of his mother.
Regarding the automobile aspect of all this, I have seen some incredibly intricately detailed low-rider vehicles in my 50 years on this planet, and the owners are not gang-banger types, but serious gearheads like myself. No, I don’t want a low-rider, but then they usually don’t want the high performance sports cars or big 4X4 trucks that I dabble in either. We do have respect for each others works though, as any car enthusiast worth his salt will.
its not OUR culture.
Please leave me out of your collectivist fantasies, which are plainly all the nativists have left in their limited tool kit. It is NOT the government’s job to enforce values at the border. It’s especially asinine given the negative correlation between immigration levels and crime.
A shift in the GOP’s immigration stance is coming, just like it did for the CPC. You can only run a political party on angry stupid for so long. Deal with it.
LAS said: “Please leave me out of your collectivist fantasies…”
Gladly. I’ve told you before you’re not on my side, but it seems you have a limited memory for such things.
Still missing the part where you show that I’m wrong though. Name calling isn’t an argument little boy.
Furthermore there is no “negative” correlation between -Mexican-,-illegal- immigration and crime. Crime follows them like fleas follow a mangy dog. If you took all the illegals out of South Phoenix there’d be no crime at all. Live in the Southwest for six months, then come and talk to me. Or just look at a crime map of Phoenix for ten seconds.
In fact, I’d love to see whatever study you’re supposedly quoting. I bet they had to do some pretty fancy footwork to come up with that.
You can only deny reality for so long before you get run over. America is in the process of getting run over. All your tomfoolery isn’t going to change it.
Don’t ever think you’re on my side, monkey boy.
This kind of bugs me:
Is it less justified to spend $40 000 + one’s own labour of love on a cool (in context) custom car than it is for soccer Mom’s 4×4 SUV?
Especially if Mom is perfectly happy with her well maintained 15 yr old minivan?
And the kid is learning custom “real world” engineering that is sorely lacking at University programs?
Sorry, no dice.
Thread derail, I know, culture clash etc. I an as Phantom put it a “speed” guy, that is our culture. But I respect what the lowrider crowd does, none the less.
dw
Oh, you want the study? Well here it is.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/papers/Griswold-
HigherImmigrationLowerCrime.pdf
Here’s some more: http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/new-crime-stats-contradict-anti-immigrant-hype/
You see, that’s called ‘data’. Facts. Not horse*&S like “If you took all the illegals out of South Phoenix there’d be no crime at all.” That is a lie. A borderline racist lie.
You have no facts. No data. Just handwaving and hysterics over ‘getting run over’, made all the more hilarious by the fact that immigration from Mexico is basically over because America’s economy is basically toast.
LAS … who the frack are YOU to lecture anybody?
Your one consistent ability being to display warped and self serving world view is hardly the stuff of a moral high ground.
Deal with it.
LOL – Out comes the “Race Card” with LAS the second someone doesn’t accept his freaky treasonous views.
Apologies I meant the THREAT of pulling the race card out with “A borderline racist lie”.
Phantom did you know that you are a borderline racist AND a borderline liar?
That’s because LAS is a borderline kind of guy in a bisexually confused kind of a way.
Oops apologies again, I said borderline twice so I must be a racists because that denotes a border between Mexico and the US which is raaaacist, but only if you’re white. If it was the North South Korean border that would be a different non-racist story, especially if you’re white and paying for it.
Well LAS, unlike you I’ve lived there, so there’s that. Also two words repeated for your benefit, CRIME MAP. See if that data matches your study.
Like Texas and Phantom, I have also lived and worked with Hispanics and can safely say that the stereotype is wrong. By far I have found them to be hard working people who were the first to show up to rebuild New Orleans after Katrina while their residents were in Houston and elsewhere complaining that the Mexicans were stealing their jobs. Mind you, most of the Katrina folk didn’t try to go back and work.
Ms Shaidle’s comments about cars shows she is no gear-head and out to lunch with her perceptions. She probably thinks it is a waste of money to celebrate a girl’s Quinceañera. I try not to judge the culture of others before I understand them.
Times change, and people change. And cultures change, and geography changes both people and cultures too. And most importantly, peoples beliefs and cultures change over time — drastic changes in culture everywhere over the last 20 years. Especially in our our own culture (Western European and North American) — I certainly don’t remember as a kid growing up in Canada being taught in school about the merits of shoving vegetables up my ass!
;=)
Big difference between traditional Mexicans and the “Chicano” culture in the U.S., the latter of which usually don’t even speak Spanish fluently — they speak “Spanglish”, which isn’t even a language. And Low-riders weren’t invented on a coffee farm high in the Mexican Sierra Madres — they were invented in downtown L.A.
I think you can find the same moral differences between conservatives and “liberals” in Mexican communities the way you can find it in the English-speaking U.S.
It’s a mishmash of everything, good and bad and everything in between. Kick the bad Mexicans in the balls, welcome the good ones with open arms!
IMO.
Heh, there are plenty of studies proving the imbecilic obvious that modern Welfare Immigration costs western nations billions, and illegal immigration brings crime. The fact that it’s “illegal” to enter a country undocumented denotes the value of the people jumping the queue.
Here is a Fraser Institute Study of legal immigration costs to Canada: PDF embedded in article
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/05/17/immigrants-cost-23b-a-year-fraser-institute-report/
Another from Standard & Poor’s Ratings Direct via Bloomberg Business:
http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2006-04-06/econ-101-on-illegal-immigrantsbusinessweek-business-news-stock-market-and-financial-advice
LAS is an admitted dope-head and an obvious anarchist troll who has supported any sort of destruction of the western economy, culture, and values, since his first posting on SDA.
He has a self absorbed vested interest in freeing up legalized drug trafficking across nonexistent borders, and has fully supported (most probably unwittingly) Socialist French and UN foreign entanglements to radicalize the Middle East. The cost of course is millions of dead brown and black Africans, along with Islamic IRA style terrorist threats across Europe and Socialist police states to “protect” European citizens from them. These are now “homegrown” terrorist threats they created, first through mass Islamic Immigration, and then through bombing their homelands after letting them in the gates.
It is a no brainer that open borders between Mexico and the US is harmful to the US and Canada. Aside from infectious diseases bypassing the quarantine process, gangs, drugs and terrorists are free to flow into the US. A doper anarchist like LAS revels in the disorder created.
Well LAS, I read those links. You’ve got some gall coming on here calling me a racist based on that wee little bit of nothing.
This -retard- Griswold reports a sharp decrease in crime rates, and then takes that bare fact to mean that immigrants don’t do crimes, without any further evidene or analysis whatsoever. Just because some guy writes something in a newspaper doesn’t make it so LAS, and one data point does not make a curve.
Maybe you’ll get better at this science stuff when you finish high school.
Well LAS, unlike you I’ve lived there
~about 4 months ago
Me, others: These polling data sure don’t look good for Romney.
Phantom: That’s just liberal propaganda. I overhead a conversation at a grocery store the other day and they were angry at Obama, so Romney is going to win.
Today, after Romney lost
Me: here’s some data.
Phantom: Your data sucks and I know because I lived there.
Some people won’t learn. For everyone else, FACTS.
Knight: HAhAHA do you even read the links you link to? Here’s a quote from the 2nd one:
the U.S. Social Security Administration maintains roughly $6 billion to $7 billion of Social Security contributions in an “earnings suspense file” — an account for W-2 tax forms that cannot be matched to the correct Social Security number. The vast majority of these numbers are attributable to undocumented workers who will never claim their benefits.
Read that twice and then think. With your brain. The illegals are paying money IN and are not able to claim it.
The Fraser Institute is guessing. That study damages their credibility.
BTW to all concerned Knight99 is a pathological lying sack with a serious cognitive deficit. I’m sure if he willingly or accidentally misinterprets people’s arguments but it doesn’t matter.
LAS, stop being childish. So people don’t agree with you. Deal with it.
There are perfectly legitimate reasons why some people reject amnesty for illegal immigrants. How fair is it to immigrants who came to the country legally and worked hard to be Americans?
Now that we live under the rule of the leftist establishment, certain facts and figures are hard to find.
when the left does not want us to know the truth they make it immoral or illegal to look for that truth and even discuss it.
that is why most study put hispanics and white together, this makes hispanics look better and whites look worse.
they kill more than two birds with this stone,
this also helps in making blacks not feel too bad as their numbers do not look as bad with this little trick.
I know a man who was a policeman for 8 years in a large city in Canada and he told me that at least 80 % of the people who commit crimes are not caucasians.
yes that may be ” anecdotal” but when the leftist establishement hides the truth, who are you going to believe?
someone who is right in the middle of those hidden truths day in day out for 8 years?
or a lying leftist establishment that is so in love with multiculturalism that it will do anything – even drag people to Human rights courts – to make sure we all love ” the other” as much as they do ?
Of course not all Hispanics are criminal, no one is saying that, but the two demographic groups who commit over 80% of crimes in the USA are Hispanics and Blacks.
They also have higher rates of teen pregnancies than Whites and Asians, and do not do as well in school as Whites and Asians.
If you think you will find numbers on that in the main stream media, good luck with that.
I could suggest a few sites but that only would get me to be called a racissssss!!!
Phantom, I must say, you really are on fire lately. That post @11:06 was fascinating, and I’m someone who not only doesn’t know what an “engine bay” is, but, having looked up “what is an engine bay” on Yahoo! Answers, still doesn’t understand because she isn’t sure she knows what a “bonnet” is.
Texas Canuck – @2:40 – surely Shaidle’s problem with that film has to do with the notion of a culture that’s real cool with the idea of 15-year-old girls being knocked up. This Quinceañera I take it is a sort of Mexican Bat Mitzvah, and who’d have a problem with that?
LAS at November 15, 2012 4:02 PM:
“BTW to all concerned I am a pathological lying sack with a serious cognitive deficit, and I want to apologize.”
Don’t be so hard on yourself — it’s not your fault because you were born that way. Apology rejected.
LAS >
“The illegals are paying money IN and are not able to claim it.”
So what? A few lying illegal aliens with criminally forged Social Security numbers may pay in 2% of their ill gotten gains while benefiting from Billions in Education, Health Care and other government services. It’s a small price to pay for them and a huge price for everyone else. That was the point, thanks for highlighting your ignorance further.
“The Fraser Institute is guessing. That study damages their credibility.” – LAS
Now there’s a howler!
You wanted, even insisted, on published facts, but didn’t like what came up?
So now according to the world of LAS the Fraser Institute has damaged their credibility because they didn’t agree with him. I’m betting they’ll get over your scorn.
Cheers 🙂
I will agree with Texas, I have met many Mexicans and close friends of mine tried to make it up here and couldn’t. Moved to Seattle and ended up doing financial planning and real estate to the Hispanic market and ended up very well off. Despite him having a green card and her pulling in 6 figures doing real estate, she could not get all her papers and they finally had to go back to Mexico to look after her Mom. There are many fine Mexicans and it’s clear they are climbing the social ladder in the US. many of them have no time for the illegals and gang types. to busy working, raising families and going to church. GWB was better at connecting with them than the current GOP and failure to connect with that demographic should be a big alarm bell for them.
LAS said: “Me: here’s some data.”
LAS, since when, and in what universe, is an -opinion piece- considered “data”? I didn’t see any And why is the Frazer Institute study “guessing” but the Cato Institute opinion piece “FACT!!!”?
Oh, because it supports -you-, that’s why.
BTW, actual data, Romney won Arizona. By a landslide. Here’s some data for ya. http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/results/arizona
The issue isn’t immigration per say, the problem is illegal immigration + Welfare Immigration + political immigration + hostile cultural immigration = BIG problems.
Aside from the obvious early century immigration benefits to America, you now have a hostile cultural displacement occurring. The US is fast becoming a bilingual nation without a vote or referendum by the American people. With cultural displacement such as this America will eventually cease to exist and a hybrid Mexican Socialist state will take its place.
The Latino population in the US is now +/- 52 million and growing exponentially. So called minority ethnic groups make up 51% of newborn births in the US up from 37% in 1990, with 26% of those Hispanic.
Overall “minorities” accounted for 92 percent of the nation’s population growth in the decade that ended in 2010, with Latino’s leading exponentially.
That said, what’s the problem? Well nothing at all if you wish to replace the American value system including constitutionally protected freedoms & liberties for the corrupt socialist elitists system of Mexico.
AND be forced to learn Spanish/ Spanglish, and love cars that bounce all over the road with hydraulic lift kits.
Otherwise you’re out and Mexico becomes a much larger land mass. The same issue’s apply for all recent global immigrants that chose to legally immigrate to the US and NOT Mexico. They should be speaking out as well.