Most modern electorates appear to be much like all drug addicts. The addiction of the latter is obvious. The addiction of the former constitutes itself in the form of more & more entitlements without any thought about how they will be paid for. Ever growing debt seems to make no difference to the majority of most voters (including more than a few Republicans and Conservatives).
In an offline discussion with SDA regular Gord Tulk, he suggested that no real, positive change can ever happen until a society reaches “rock bottom”. I concur.
But for America, what precisely does this mean? What about for Europe?
Update: Might Greece be a preview for America? h/t Mark
ET said: “Obama certainly wants a dependent population, but above all, he and the Democrats want political power. If they destroy the economy, they won’t have power.”
Nice comments above ET. I believe what you’ve said is certainly true. The one problem here is that the DemocRats have demonstrated very little economic acumen. They could easily destroy the economy by accident, because they’re greedy and stupid. May have done so already and we just don’t know it yet. Think mortgage crisis 2008.
You look at Valerie Jarret, she does not seem like that smart a woman. Slick, sly and slimy for sure, crafty and crooked with a good eye for the main chance, but -smart-? Playing with dynamite is not smart.
Here’s a great speech from the man who fixed New Zealand when it decided it had bottomed out.
“When we started this process with the Department of Transportation, it had 5,600 employees. When we finished, it had 53. When we started with the Forest Service, it had 17,000 employees. When we finished, it had 17. When we applied it to the Ministry of Works, it had 28,000 employees. I used to be Minister of Works, and ended up being the only employee.”
http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=2004&month=04
ET, your first comment on this thread was beyond brilliant and a must read for generations to come.
Your following comments that Obama will adopt much of the GOP’s fiscally responsible policies would be nice but, like Knight99, I don’t think it’s going to happen.
Just yesterday I was listening to an old clip of Obama where he was advocating for higher taxes for the rich. The astute interviewer pointed out to him that when this was done in the past, the actual revenue coming in to the government WAS LESS. Obama dismissed this and asserted that higher taxes for the rich “was more fair”.
We have a Far Left ideologue in the White House for another 4 years, not a prudent politician like Bill Clinton who switched tracks when Dick Morris told him that he could not get re-elected going the way he had been.
In summary, I hope you’re right because it’s in America’s and Canada’s best interest. BUT that would mean that Obama would steer away from his plans to “radically transform America”. I don’t see him doing it.
ET >
“I’ll differ from you………… . If they destroy the economy, they won’t have power.”
That’s ok, I actually just threw that out there as another option, there are many who believe it and with good reason. I’m personally more in line with greed and stupidity, but if there is a greater agenda to bankrupt the American middle class it originates from Europe and the global elites with both American political parties playing a role towards eventual Global Governance via the UN.
Every President and western Prime Minister since Reagan has spoke of or referenced this global collective.
That said, the American government is a corporation, lobbied and run by other corporations who have a global interest. For Obamba or any other administration to truly “have the power” they need to have the power over the other corporations including financial institutions most of whom operate globally.
The sentimental sovereign America means nothing to these people, in fact all that goobly talk of freedom and liberty just gets in their way.
“If they (Democrats) destroy the economy, they won’t have power.”
I will simply say, look to California. The Democrats have dominated California state government for a long time, and even as the California economy dies under the Democrats’ poisonous prescriptions, the people continue to vote more and more Democratic. California is locked into the death spiral and she is utterly unable to save herself.
I fear the same has now become true of America.
@ Rose 11:55am;
If you are stii eating you have not hit ‘rock bottom’ yet.
Robert W. (Vancouver) >
Well said, what I find amazing is that no one has ever put Obamba to task to explain what “radically transform America” actually means.
Has he ever once explained his great master plan for radical change anywhere? I like to hear it if it actually existed.
I’m not necessarily claiming Obamba is a dictator in drag, but it is strange to me that people refuse to believe that a dictator could ever rise to power and occupy the Whitehouse considering world history.
All of his proven lies, including the unconstitutional Executive Orders which he promised never to use before taking office, along with resigning the Patriot Act and initiating the National Defense Authorization Act, should have anyone with a brain at least troubled.
One rockbottom endstate is Zimbabwe. The argument that the Democrats need an economy is just not true. Given the choice of an economy or power we know their answer. The question is not “Is it reversible?” but “Will anyone bother to try?” Certainly the Democrats won’t. After the Republican congressional/senatorial performance of the past two years, I would say that the Republicans won’t either. Down the tubes we go with America.
This requires a better economy, and thus, both tax and entitlement reform are basic. Heh – and they’ll take credit for the GOP plans.
ET, so a case of getting the wrong people to do the right thing? (Milton Friedman’s phrase)
You saying there’s a silver lining?
I can’t predict the future, but I surmise that ET might be correct about Obama, and the Dems “triangulating”.
There is an old political saying “Only the Democrats can go to war and cut taxes”. The saying is rooted in ET’s logic.
NOW… the question is: is Obama truly a “Post American President” with nefarious intentions; or, is he a political genius who had to foresight to know that he would win the 2012 election regardless of how hard a Left turn he took in his first term?
The bottom line is, Obama has very effectively put himself in position to “have his cake and eat it too”. He can do exactly as ET has suggested and “triangulate” and pay a very small political price because 1) he fed his base “red meat” for 4 years; and 2) if Obama and the Dems cut spending, it’s obviously because they had too, because they are Dems after all.
Like I said “Only the Democrats can go to war and cut taxes”.
ET and Indiana Homez,
They not only need to throw the so-cons under the bus if they won’t vote, they need to pull the Ron Paul supporters out from under the bus. They don’t have to do something as silly as electing him as the GOP candidate but they have to take him seriously and not belittle him. He has a solid base of support that the GOP could use and he has some very valid points about domestic monitary policy. I beleive Ron Paul compaigning for Romney would have pushed him that last few % he needed to win, specially in the swing states.
Greece is nowhere near rock bottom. Rock bottom would be Germany in the early `30s. Collapse of the economy; hyperinflation;
starvation and cannibalism; various sorts of socialists, communists, and fascists fighting it out in the streets.
Even then it could still go lower, though probably not without external intervention – Siege of Leningrad.
Phantom, that’s right, rock bottom is Staten Island right now, where government services are non-existent and where much of the damage could have been prevented IF the previous governments, both GOP and Democratic, had invested in infrastructure for energy(hydro), water, roads etc.
And I agree that the Democrats, many in Congress as well as in the electorate, haven’t a clue how an economy operates. But, their unelected advisors do, and I think that they have no choice, but to focus on the economy.
And don’t listen to Obama’s blather about the economy; he is not merely ignorant; he’s stupid. He’s not involved in policy decisions; he just campaigns and preaches. Obama has one interest: your adulation. What he’s going to do now, is zip around the world preaching about..nothing.
It’s the backroom gang that matter. Their focus isn’t the economy but Power. They got into power in 2008 using emotion as a strategy: Bash Bush and Hope and Change. Then, they instantly set about building up a dependent electoral base.
The 2012 election also used emotion as a strategy: the mean GOP will take away all your benefits. And the GOP, instead of, like Harper, refusing to get involved in social issues, fell into the trap. And lost.
Again, remember how the GOP trashed Rick Perry for his pragmatic, economically constructive approach to illegals. He acknowledge their existence and sought to remove them from a welfare or drug economy. The GOP trashed him.
The Democrats have their elections, they have their electoral base, and, in order to win in 2016, they have to retain that base. Now, they can’t blame Bush for the economy. Not now.
So, they have to do something about enabling the development of wealth, to support this electoral base. They know, even if Obama doesn’t, that taxing ‘the rich’ (who are they?) not only won’t do a thing, but will harm the economy.
So, two things to focus on. The ball is really, now, in the hands of the Democrats. They can’t blame anyone now.
And the GOP have to redefine themselves as a political party that is focused only on genuine federal concerns: the economy, foreign relations, defense, interstate infrastructure. Leave all social issues to the people, in the State legislatures.
expat
Culling the social conservative influence from the GOP would bring the libertarians into the fold. The Dems are very similar to the GOP regarding foreign policy so there is no need to worry about that.
Interestingly enough, there were rumors during the Primaries that Mitt Romney was in talks with Rand Paul, and that he was a potential VP candidate who would bring Ron Paul and his sycophants with him.
Nothing the Republicans in the House can do over the next four years will be seen as productive or useful by the mainstream media. The narrative of Republicans blocking “progress” will persist as long as Republicans stay engaged. Given that America is going over the fiscal cliff with or without essentially futile delaying action which will do nothing to help the politics for the party, here’s what they should do:
Go home and allow the Democrats to pass all the legislation that they want, disciplined only by their sense of futility as the world walks away from the most fiscally broke entity in the history of the planet. The unemployment numbers will balloon, the creators will go Galt, the currency will plummet or interest rates will surge, the dynamic economy will shrug, tax revenue will shrivel despite any increases passed, and either the Democrats discover conservatism or they will take the country down, single-handed and own the wreckage, being without Republicans to blame. I hazard a guess that they would likely eventually have to impeach their own dear leader.
Message to Republicans: Don’t get into a fight with pigs. You can’t win and if you try you only get dirty. Walk away and save your dignity. You know the drill: beans, bullets and Gold. The nation has earned what comes next.
ET said:
“The fact that the Democrats essentially based their entire election on social policies (women, gays, hispanics) was a tactic they used to build up a huge dependent electoral base.”
Furthermore, there is more evidence in Canada that demonstrates the way to beat liberals is to take-away the ‘non-issue wedge issues’. That evidence is: Global Warming.
SDA commenters will remember that the Conservatives were beaten many times with the AGW stick. THEN… in a skillful Chess move at the proverbial Checkers Table PMSH turned the opposition inside-out when the CPC took the official position on AGW of “we believe”. Once the CPC evolved from “deniers” to “believers” the Liberals and the Dippers effectively lost their biggest club. Simply agreeing with the AGW premise, and then doing nothing about it, was a much better political position that denying the “consensus” and doing nothing.
So, my point is the GOP could easily take an official “pro-choice” position, and then fight public funding for abortion to their hearts content under the guise of “we’ve got a better idea(see clean coal)”.
This tactic can be used for “non-issue wedge issues” such as ‘Gay marriage’, ‘Woman’s rights’, and probably more significant issues such as illegal immigration. For example, I am bewildered as to why the GOP has not passed a comprehensive immigration reform bill in the House?!?. Such a bill would FORCE the Dems to kill it in the Senate. See how simple that is? Who’s the bad-guy now? Quite frankly, I believe that Mitt should have led with such an idea, as Obama was very vulnerable on this IMO, but I digress. Anyways, the Dems would reject such a bill, and Amnesty would be dead, but the GOP would be alive(as far as Hispanics are concerned).
Also, as ET mentioned, Rick Perry and Newt Gingrich both got lambasted for their realistic approach to immigration reform. This is where Mitt was “severely conservative” to a fault in the Primaries, which likely cost him the election in a few swing states.
It’s supposed to be music, not a documentry:
“Right now I feel like just hit the rock bottom
I got problems now everybody on my blocks got ’em
I’m screaming like those two cops when 2pac shot ’em
Holding two glocks, I hope your doors got new locks on ’em
My daughter’s feet ain’t got no shoes or sock’s on ’em
And them rings you wearing look like they got a few rocks on ’em
And while you flaunting them I could be taking them to shops to pawn them
I got a couple of rings and a brand new watch you want ’em?
Cause I never went gold off one song
I’m running up on someone’s lawns with guns drawn”
Rock Bottom – Eminem
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Rock-Bottom-lyrics-Eminem/239F07469BEB0C604825688800114D1C
Indiana Homez, yes, nice comments.
That would have been great, for the GOP in the House to pass a comprehensive reform immigration bill in the House. Heh. That would have undercut the Democrats in the Senate!
I supported Rick Perry as the GOP nominee, but, I acknowledge that his recent back surgery and having to be on strong painkillers wiped out his ability to function in the primaries and probably would have prevented him from the rigours of a campaign. Maybe next time..with Rubio as VP.
Yes, Harper’s superficial acceptance of AGW, with his actions of removing Canada from Kyoto etc, were tactically superb.
But I still think that, as far as abortion is concerned, the GOP ought to remove itself from any stance and insist on its being a decision to be made by the people not by a political party. That is, have a referendum in a state, not a decision within a political party.
Immigration is a federal task, and the GOP ought to have dealt with it. Perry was absolutely right in his decision to give illegals the right to a college education. The option without such an education, since they weren’t going to leave, and since the govt was doing nothing, would have resulted in them being forced to move into an underground economy, working as illegals, or in the drug economy.
The GOP has to reform and, as Harper did with the Conservative Party in Canada, this is a basic reform.
Preston Manning started the reform with his Reform Party and Harper took its focus into his development of the Conservative Party, ending that dreadful PC Party as a mock version of the Liberals.
The GOP should do the same. Acknowledge the focus of the Tea Party on the economy and limited government, get out of social issues, and provide a decent alternative to the Democrats whose SOLE agenda is Power. Just like the Liberals; their sole agenda was also: Power.
I’m predicting the intended “bottom” not necessarily (Rock Bottom) will be akin to Argentina in the 90’s.
I believe corporate America and the Corporation of America wishes to open free trade with no border barriers between Canada, Mexico, the US, and Central America. In order to achieve this goal they need to equalize the middle class standards of living between the countries, so that there is not such a huge discrepancy between them. This was the problem between the EU countries and Greece and precisely why they don’t allow former Soviet Union eastern bloc European countries to join the EU. Their economies and standards of living are too far out of balance with each other to operate effectively together economically.
They actively need to bring the Mexican and Central American economies up, and simultaneously degrade the American economy down to achieve a more level economic playing field. This is one reason why the US/ Mexico border is wide open and why manufacturing continues to bleed from the US in favor of some of these countries.
Of course there is always more than one agenda at play against the US middle class, constructed by a multitude of enemy’s both foreign and domestic. The current corporate fascist governing system is but one of them.
Think Haiti……
Here’s rock bottom.
Three hours a day of electricity. Two of television, if you’re lucky, practically all of it propaganda. (The Internet a distant memory.)
Fresh food also a distant memory in the cities, unless you have relatives in the country willing to give you a few eggs or connections on the black market. Everything worth eating exported to China to service debt. Expect to wait for hours in line for staples. Every year this goes on hundreds of thousands will quite literally starve to death.
If you’re unlucky enough to need medical help, expect to be left to die in a gurney unless you can arrange enough gold, sliver, tobacco or alcohol to bribe a nurse to so much as change your diaper, never mind treat you. (Money will be worthless, of course.) Painkillers? The black marketeers will get them long before you do.
When Americans become so miserable they stop reproducing and the plunging birth rate becomes impossible even for a liberal to ignore, Obama will throw every freebie he can think of at his “community” to encourage their breeding like cockroaches to help make up the difference. Of course, as most feral farm dogs couldn’t be trusted with a pot plant even if they were capable of caring less, what remains of the foster-care system will crack under the strain.
Forget leaving for a civilized country like Canada or Israel, unless you have a wealthy relative there willing to buy your freedom for a small fortune in gold and silver.
Meanwhile, to replace the doctors and engineers who manage to escape, the cesspits of the Third world will be emptied into the States as never before, helping to keep what passes for hospitals well staffed with Arab hacks. The open borders nutters are right about one thing—if the powers that be in the States ever get serious about a border fence, it won’t be to keep out the Mexicans.
Welcome to Romania in 1984, as close to Orwell’s as any I can think of. Rock bottom isn’t when government services stop. Just that would be a mercy. Nothing will work quickly and efficiently except the Securitate. Expect a fair number of your friends and relatives to be bribed or blackmailed into keeping the cops posted on which “crackers” need to be taught a lesson in “respect.”
Expect this or worse for eight years at least.
Who knows? This may just be God’s plan to test his people, and humble them. Today, Romania is one of the most devout nations in Europe.
When the Romanian revolutionaries took over TV Romania, they didn’t thank Western liberals for their liberation. They thanked God.
Next Christmas in Bucharest!
Knight 99, I’ll reject your premise of ‘they’, ie, the Corporation of America (what the heck is that and who runs it???) want to equalize middle class standards of living in America.
But I DO accept that the world economy is, in itself, not due to any Metaphysical or even Physical Controlling Agent, is a complex, entwined and interactive network. That is a basic fact.
And, as such, it doesn’t operate well if there are extreme disparities of both productive capacity and consumer demand in this whole network. To be a network, all ‘nodes’ must be capable of participating, in some form, in the whole economic network.
Furthermore this global complex economic network is, like all such systems, self-organizing. Doesn’t require a cigar-smoking devious Planner in some isolate Boardroom.
So, I’m really not convinced about your ‘enemies of the middle class’ conspiracy theory.
What corporate fascist governing system, by the way? Quite the host of adjectives.
ET…get off your fat a%^ and go produce something.Stop piling it higher and deeper.
ET >
Corporation of America (what the heck is that and who runs it???)
The first ten minutes should get you up to speed,
CORPORATE FASCISM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTbvoiTJKIs
@ OMMAG – Haiti’s a good example. It hit rockbottom arund after Toussaint L’Ouverture, Boney’s invasion, Dessalines and Christophe, and never recovered. All four posterboys for insane dictator. Interestingly enough Santo Domingo’s much better off.
Knight99 – I know what corporate fascism, in the popular terms means; I wanted to know why you used it. I don’t happen to agree with it or even consider that it can, as a systemic mode of organization, function. It’s just cronyism and government corruption. And I’m not into conspiracy theories.
Justthinkin – and your point is what?
OMMAG – I think Haiti is a unique case of pure corruption, where a small elite of about 30 families, from the old French colonial days, run the economic actions of the nation, almost totally ignoring the mass of the population, who are ‘not pure laine French’ so to speak..and are mostly looked after by international charities.
I don’t think this can compare to the US or any collapsed economy.
I have been lurking here for a year or two.I enjoy the perspective of my Canadian neighbor( or should I use a “u” in neighbor?). I have many times linked a reference to you folks in one of my favorite blogs. This discussion of our recent election has brought up many points of thought that parallels many of the thoughts of the folks on ” My Favorite Blog”. Would it be allright to link back to this thread so the folks who are interested “Down Continent” could read it ?
The US had had a civil ware before and I think that is a possibility again. There is a sharp divide between some red and blue states, and I can see some of the blue states deciding that they have had enough and either declaring independence or just ignoring the federal government.
ET >
“I know what corporate fascism, in the popular terms means; I wanted to know why you used it.”
That’s funny, you should have said you knew what corperate fascism was in the first place and asked me why I used it. You did not, what to make of that?
“And I’m not into conspiracy theories.” – ET
Neither am I, what conspiracy theory are you referring to?
That said, you obviously didn’t bother to watch my video answer to your now obviously silly attempt to mock my earlier comments.
Sort of makes your original question and other points moot.
I can see rock bottom from my house.
Rock bottom
1)No job/or job that pays slave wages.
2)No house or Apartment, and no money for them because of the above.
3)No investments or savings
4)Economy where you can never get ahead no mater what you do.
Then Id say I hit rock bottom already; and I’m in good company by the millions of others in the same boat.
Knight99 – there isn’t a ‘right way’ to ask a question. Corporate fascism is an old term and I would consider that most people involved in political blogs know its meaning. I still want to know why you used the term.
No, I didn’t watch your video. I don’t have ten minutes to spend on a video; I blog ‘in-between’ other things. And how do you conclude that I was, by rejecting your view, also mocking your comments?
I refer to your comment as a conspiracy theory by your transforming corporations and ‘the Corporation of America’, into agential persons with rational agendas. I don’t accept that a corporation is a ‘person’ with its own agenda. You refer to these corporations as ‘they’ and comment on their specific intentionalities.
And that includes ‘the current corporate fascist governing system’ – an explanation would be helpful. Surely you don’t expect the reader to accept it as valid without some evidence.
Update: O’narcissist’s Green Graveyard.
…-
“Wind industries lay off hundreds of workers”
“MOORHEAD, Minn. — Hundreds of workers in our region are losing their jobs as wind turbine manufacturers cut production.
The federal tax credit that subsidizes wind energy is set to expire at the end of the year, and political uncertainty is putting the brakes on the wind industry. More than 500 workers are losing their jobs in the Red River Valley.
By the end of November, 345 workers who make wind turbine blades at a Grand Forks, N.D. factory will be out of work.
Bill Burga, who heads manufacturing in North and South America for LM Wind Power, the Denmark-based company that operates a turbine blade plant in Grand Forks, said orders for next year have dried up because no one is sure if Congress will renew the wind energy tax credit.”
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/11/06/business/wind-manufacturer-layoff/
My point is get off your butt and produce something.You are no better then the Zero.You yap and do nothing.PHD…piling higher and deeper.
Justthinkin – what you do mean ‘yap and produce nothing’? This is a blog, which is all about ‘yapping’. There’s nothing else that is possible on a blog other than to type in one’s comments.
Are you suggesting I can plant a garden on a blog? Or change the oil in the car, via the blog?
Now, if you object to my comments, then, ‘yap’ about them. Debate them. Argue with them. Present your contrary opinion.
Or, you can do what I do with some posters. I read the thread from the bottom up and simply scroll past posters that I don’t wish to read. You can do that with me. Try it, you’ll be happy!
Justthinkin. Manners, dude.
ET >
“No, I didn’t watch your video.”
Then my argument was rejected out of hand. I guess I see your “Conspiracy Theory” point when looking at the side links and seeing conspiracy videos listed (welcome to Utube). I’m glad there weren’t cat & dog links on the side bar or you may have gone off about liking or disliking cats & dogs.
“…by your transforming corporations and ‘the Corporation of America’, into agential persons with rational agendas” – ET
The only mention about a “cigar-smoking devious Planner in some isolate Boardroom” was from you. I believe it’s called putting words in other people’s mouths or something akin.
As already stated, it’s a waste of time discussing a lengthy subject such as this with you, if you are too close minded to spend 10 minutes to get up to speed on what I’m talking about. Not a big issue for me, but really a waste of my time to pursue it.
Cornel University law:
(15) “United States” means—
(A) a Federal corporation;
(B) an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity of the United States; or
(C) an instrumentality of the United States.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/3002
Page 181 U. S. 458
419, c. 62, provided:
“That all that part of the territory of the United States included within the limits of the District of Columbia be, and the same is hereby, created into a government by the name of the District of Columbia, by which name it is hereby constituted a body corporate for municipal purposes, and may contract and be contracted with, sue and be sued, plead and be impleaded, have a seal, and exercise all other powers of a municipal corporation not inconsistent with the Constitution and laws of the United States and the provisions of this act.”
http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/181/453/case.html
Knight99 – because I don’t have ten minutes to watch a video does not mean I am ‘close-minded’! It means I don’t have that block of time to sit at a blog site on my computer.
No, my image of the cigar smoking agent was a metaphor for your writing such statements as:
“I believe corporate America and the Corporation of America wishes to open free trade with no border barriers between Canada, Mexico, the US, and Central America. In order to achieve this goal they need to …”
Corporations do not ‘wish’; corporations don’t have ‘needs to’; ..Only rational agents carry out such ‘thinking actions’.
I don’t see the point of your definitions, which do not and cannot, ascribe rational intentionality to an organization, whether it be called a corporation, an agency, department, commission etc. None of these can ‘wish’, or ‘need’. All that these organizations do, as legal entities, is to legally represent the specific decisions made by the humans within that corporation, agency, department, commission.
This means that rather than the particular individual being held accountable for the decisions made within the Boardrooms of that corporation, agency, department, that the entire organization is legally held accountable. So, you can sue the schoolboard or the local Hospital for their errors, and the individuals on the Board of Governors are not personally liable.
Q: “What Does “Rock Bottom” Mean for America & Europe?”
…-
A:
“European companies announce 10,000 job losses”
“Wind turbine manufacturer Vestas says 2,000 jobs will be cut with some of the losses coming from the UK”
“Leading European companies announced job losses totalling more than 10,000 on Wednesday, underlining the scale of problems facing the continent’s manufacturers.
Vestas, the world’s largest wind turbine manufacturer, said 2,000 jobs would be cut after it posted an almost doubling of pre-tax losses in the face of falling prices and fierce competition from China.
Some of those jobs could be in the UK, where 500 jobs are also likely to go at Maltby coalmine in south Yorkshire after its owner, Hargreaves Services, declared it unsafe.
Mobile telecoms equipment maker Ericsson said it would cut 1,550 jobs – nearly 10% of its staff in Sweden – blaming weakness in global demand for falling exports. Elsewhere garden equipment maker Husqvarna cut 600 jobs and German steel company Klöckner axed 1,800.
In finance, the Dutch bank ING said it was laying off 2,350 people and a German newspaper reported that Commerzbank, the country’s second biggest lender, might cut between 5,000 and 6,000 jobs. Commerzbank declined to comment, ahead of its financial results on Thursday.
The Vestas cuts underline the crisis in the renewable energy sector and will reduce its workforce to 16,000 by the end of 2013 from nearly 23,000 just a year ago.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/nov/07/european-companies-job-losses
We have already seen rock bottom in parts of America. Detroit comes to mind. Its come about because of real racism. Anyone who lived through DC voting for Marian Barry knows what I,m talking about.
Blacks continued to vote for him solely on skin color. No matter how he did cocaine or used prostitutes. The number one factor for them was he is black. The same goes for Women & other groups. It matters not a wit how candidates deport themselves or how Insane they are. People vote for them because of skin color or whatever reason that fits their cultural agenda . Look at Please or Reid mad infatuation with socialism. Yet they still get voted in.
Most blacks no matter the fact they are worse under Obama voted for him. Jews voted Democrat because they always do. Till people start voting for real policy & not personnel, looks or party affiliation, let alone race or Gender, this will continue . Its who they identify with racially or by tradition is how folks now vote. Not reason or policy.
As long as it stays that way you get Detroit & California.
ET >
Yawn, ET semantics again.
1. cor•po•ra•tion/ˌkôrpəˈrāSHən/
Noun:
1. A company or group of people authorized to act as a single entity (legally a person) and recognized as such in law.
2. A group of people elected to govern a city, town, or borough.
Who do you seriously think directs American trade policies, Obamba or lobbyists on behalf of Corporations like Wal-Mart, Chinas 8th largest trading partner?
Oh I’m sorry I meant the individuals who run the Corporations like Wal-Mart, Exxon, GE, Ford, Monsanto, BP etcetera.
The US is quickly on its way to rock-bottom and it deserves to get there. It is the only way to show the majority of people how bad letting their once workable country can get. It will hurt but it must be done.
One more thing, can we please dispense with the notion that social issues lost the election this time around? They didn’t. Obama and the Democrats created an environment of fear and division because that is what they do. Personally, if the Republicans cast aside social issues, there is no need to defend the fiscal ones. At some point, the two will intersect anyway. I’m not saying there should be single issues but pretending they don’t exist or veering in an unlikely populist position is morally indefensible.
Moving on….
No, no, no that ain’t rock bottom.
Rock bottom is when you’ve been ejected from your home in 10 minutes by machine gun. You have the clothes on your back, haven’t eaten in three days and have to boil grass and herbs to make gruel/soup.
Meanwhile, you are tending to the head wound you received, as you were pushed by thugs onto the railway tracks; after intervening on behalf of the housemaid who was about to be raped.
That is rock bottom…
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
Sorry to be arriving so late to a post that I played a role in germinating.
I agree very much with ETs comments. And have expressed similar views on several blogs and call-in shows.
I think rock bottom could be as simple as a crash in the bond market. IOW the US Govt tries to issue some and there are no takers. Essentially that’s what happened in Canada during Chretiens term in office. Very quickly under duress Paul Martin cut transfers to the provinces, burgled the EI fund, cut the value of the currency by 25-30% and doubled the employer/employer contribution levels to the CPP.
The US is already in much worse fiscal and entitlement trouble than Canada was then but it is propped up by its massive exports of its benchmark currency which is in turn backed by the US military’s near global and certainly maritime hegemony.
This makes the potential for a more catastrophic failure far higher and thus the climb back out far more difficult.
Imagine the possibility of a pre-emptive strike by Israel on Iran that is not backed post facto by the US, for example. Or a nuclear strike by Iran on Israel. What would be the financial implications for the US? Far worse than they would be for Canada perhaps.
Osumashi, no-one is saying that there shouldn’t be social issues. I am saying that they are not the domain of a federal government but of a local government.
Federally legislated social issues are found in totalitarian states, with, for example, Sharia law, or China’s rules etc. Social issues must be decided, not by a government but by the people. This is best accomplished by referendum at the LOCAL or state level. Harper, for example, has adamantly insisted that such topics, eg, abortion, are not the domain of the federal govt.
Knight99 – a govt that is run by cronyism with corporations is corrupt. We’ve seen that with Chretien, and it’s the norm in Quebec. It’s not the way a government should run and, although always around, has to be fought against.
Gord Tulk – thanks for your comments. And your outline of how Chretien was forced to, via Paul Martin, deal with the Liberal abuse of the Canadian economy. A lot of that tactic was basic offloading to the provinces.
As I’ve said, I think that the Democratic focus, under the Obama gang, is all about power. The first term was to develop the electoral base to win the second term. They did this by financing, via massive debt, a huge dependent set of Identity Bloc voters. This tactic has moved the US economy to the edge of a cliff.
Now, they must win the next election. That is why I’m saying that they must deal with this cliff, because its edge can’t be pushed years away. If they don’t solve it, they lose the 2016 election and their goal is only: power. Not the wellbeing of America, which is merely incidental.
They can’t continue to blame Bush though that’s a basic theme. So, I maintain they’ll adopt much of the Romney-Ryan plan, claim it as their own..and start, today, campaigning for 2016.
Gord Tulk @ 1:47am;
Totally agree Gord. The USA has more slack to play with because the Bank of International Settlement and oil is based in USA currency. As the largest world economy no other currency has threatened the preeminent position of the USA $. As the EU and then Japan crumbles the USA $ might in fact strengthen in a last ditch attempt to save assets. Meanwhile Barry will be able to create more dollars to pay the bills. Yes, no one wanting to buy bonds might trigger the collapse. I suspect it will more likely be a collapse of international trade as payments become more problematic.
A surprise attack by Israel on Iran is unlikely as militarily they cannot penetrate the nuclear defences in Iran. Obama is no friend of Israel however, so Israel might take that gamble. Even if they cannot wipe out Iran’s bomb an attack could set Iran back for years. Israel doesn’t have to worry about a ground war with Iran especially since Syria is self-destructing. MADD already exists in the ME which makes me think no attack happens. The biggest issue is use of tactical nuclear weapons. It extends MADD onto the battle field which again benefits Israeli defence.