You can laugh and say it’s just a joke, but through a war of inches, Hollywood continues its assault to define deviancy down and to normalize destructive behavior. Humor is an excellent way to get us used to and to take the shock value out of something hideous and immoral.
If you don’t think there’s an agenda behind this, you haven’t been paying attention the last 40 years.
You could say the commercial for Pampers Pull-ups is trying to marginalize pedophilia. Some old guy(the parent) is shining a light on the diapers of some kids(his children) to make them glow. It seems strange to have glow in the dark diapers in the first place, but if you want to sell more diapers you have to innovate.
Isn’t this like that fictional tale about the swiss scientist that decided he’d reanimate some dead flesh, and when he saw his creation ran away in fear? Seem to recall that at the end of the story they both died.
Yep, dead stream media created this monster, and are unable to do anything but suffer the same fate of those they have villainized when the creature turns on them.
Isn’t this like that fictional tale about the swiss scientist that decided he’d reanimate some dead flesh, and when he saw his creation ran away in fear? Seem to recall that at the end of the story they both died.
Yep, dead stream media created this monster, and are unable to do anything but suffer the same fate of those they have villainized when the creature turns on them.
Let me see! Ed Driscoll is only selling “T” shirts.
cheers;
Oh brother. If you make claims of ‘an agenda’, please have the minutes of the agenda meeting to present.
There is no ‘agenda’ here beyond desperate advertisers who are running out of ideas to sell stuff and uptights getting the underwear in a bunch over it.
I’m not a religious person, but when I see things like the Warlus ad or the “Little Baby’s Ice Cream” ad it’s impossible to not sense a deep, rumbling evilness afoot in our culture, one that we no longer have the precise language to describe.
A few years ago I saw a dialogue-and-music-less “What happens in Vegas stays in a Vegas” TV ad showing a group of women in the back of a limo in a “day-after-the-night-before” situation. One woman was clearly humiliated and ashamed about something she’d done the night before in front of her friends; she had clearly been crying, and looked kind of beat up, and devastated by remorse to the point of almost being destroyed. There was a pall of moral loss, but then one woman started giggling, and then the rest of them the rest of them “loosened up”, one by one, and started to see the “humour” in the situation, until finally the woman who had been upset started to see, too, that it was all okay, and funny.
It was deeply creepy at a moral level; it was clearly saying “are you on the side of the uptights/breeders/’judgers’, or are you going to loosen up and have some fun, baby?”
A friend and I had an interesting discussion last weekendabout the fact that basic moral restraint and decency – or what used to be referred to as decency – is on its back foot in current times by virtue of being far less defensible (or defended) than jaded, violative profligacy and cynicism. The public lexicon of judgements against people who disapprove of or object to behaviours that until very recently were considered self-evidently inappropriate for public display — say, a bunch of guys mock-humping on a slow-moving flatbed truck in a “pride” parade on main street, or a couple playing tonsil-hockey in public, or yet another cynical, transgressive on-stage display by Madonna — is well-stocked: the person is a “prude”, or is “uptight”, or is “overreacting” or — especially — is “intolerant” or a “right-wing Christian”. The urbane, hip, Hollywood types who transgress against civilized standards, on the other hand, are more likely to be deemed as “edgy” or “creative” or super-cool, and judgements against them and what they promote are cynically dismissed as the mere protestations of people who, like, you know, take things too seriously.
We came to the conclusion that proscriptions against decadence, sexual profligacy and moral destructiveness are ultimately the products of knowledge – knowledge of history, the human spirit, consequences – and wisdom, which means that the defenders of foundational civilizational standards, who no longer have the clout they once did, are destined to be a minority. The sensation-seeking, bored, decadent people who amuse themselves by “breaking boundaries” with the casualness of someone absently pulling wings off of a fly, and the people who buy their merchandise, are motivated by nothing more than a prurient, restless, aimless limbic quest for novelty and excitement that requires neither knowledge or wisdom — meaning, it will remain a large audience, comprised mostly of youthful (i.e. spending) consumers whose lack of moral judgement is buttressed by this very lowering of the proverbial bar and the blurring of the line between right and wrong.
You know a society is going the wrong way when the people who casually promote debasement, degradation, and defilement are widely deemed to be cool and “edgy” and hip, while the people who are still capable of making the most basic differentiation between right and wrong – even if just in passing, and in a largely unconcerned way – are deemed to be, well, “uptights getting their underwear in a bunch” (5:34).
Oh brother. If you make claims of ‘an agenda’, please have the minutes of the agenda meeting to present. There is no ‘agenda’ here beyond desperate advertisers who are running out of ideas to sell stuff and uptights [sic] getting the underwear in a bunch over it.
This is a good demonstration of marginalizing someone who dares to express a legitimate concern. Does unanimous consent demand a formal agenda? I think our society today was adequately foretold to us by Aldous Huxley.
Remember kids, its hard for them to f- with your brain if you don’t watch.
F**K OFF LAS, You’re an idiot.
Another lib-retardian ass clown who thinks being a f**king pervert is somehow a wonderful expression of freedom.
BTW? Your sheep left you for a pervert with a bigger dick.
“The United Nations’ War on Traditional Values (by Jesse Lee Peterson)” – 1999
(an actual “Black Man” the MSM does not want you to see)
An oldie but a goodie, via the John Birch Society.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LWRWNivsOg
Many good links included as well:
UN Takes Aim at Children
The “Emancipated” Child
The UN is NOT Your Friend
A Covenant With Death
Families Separated by the State
When Child-snatchers Attack
New Century Children
Abortion’s Effect on America
Morality Meltdown
Unmentionable Vice Goes Mainstream
People haven’t changed, the celebration of Ishtar was a sexual orgy. Sacred prostitution, homosexual prostitutes, the whole bit.
That is the difference between Obama and Romney. One would adhere to some semblance of decency, the other not so much. Discipline in one area leads to discipline in other areas. The opposite is also true.
Just finished reading “The Enemy at Home’ (sub titled “The Cultural Left and its’ Responsibility for 9/11”) by Dinesh D’Souza – written in 2005. It’s a great book and I’d highly recommend you check your local library for it.
He clearly and concisely dissects the history of the left, their impact on our culture and what they intend to achieve. He points to their ‘enemy of my enemy’ stategy of undermining western social values while providing policital succor to Islamists – despite the fact that Islamists are the ulitmate ‘conservatives’ whose social values are antithetical to their own beliefs. Those on the left believe they’ll deal with ‘changing’ Islamic society into a secular society in due time.
Meanwhile, the social mores of the left provide perfect fodder for Islamists to point to the social and moral decadence of western society.
An excellent example is on display in Vancouver today – with an estimated 600,000 people in attendance at the annual ‘homosexuals flaunting an aberrant lifestyle on parade’ event.
Lest you think that unkind or harsh, too many people have bought into the ‘neighbours next door’ branding of the lifestyle (and yes, I must add the disclaimer that not only do I have homosexual friends, I’ve also rented my home to hoomosexual couples) a goodly portion of the truth about the lifestyle was illustrated on last nights showing of Drugs Inc. The program highlighted the huge ‘counter-culture’ of San Francisco known as ‘Party and Play’.
The ‘P&P’ life is a lerge coterie of HIV positive, meth using homosexual men who access both web sites and newspaper adverts to solicit unprotected, drug fueled sex sessions. The attitude is that common HIV status is a sexual bonus since no one can be infected, thus allowing for unihibited, anything goes practices.
Throw in Jersey Shores, slut walks and a host of other common and widely accepted ‘western social values’ and one can understand why the exportation of western cultural practices is seen as an existential threat to the conservative, traditional Muslim world.
Truth is, from a moral and cultural perspective, Judeo-Christian values are more in line with everyday Muslim values than are those of the liberal left.
And believe me, I’m no sympathizer of Islam. I view the spread of fundamentaiist Islam as the most serious threat faced by mankind today.
EBD hit the nail on the head with:
…”it’s impossible to not sense a deep, rumbling evilness afoot in our culture, one that we no longer have the precise language to describe”.
One can see over the years the decline in decency and respect and one would have to wonder is there a conspiracy behind this. It just boggles the mind to think that this decline of our society is orchestrated.
But then, back in Rome’s day, it too declined and disappeared and there was no socialistic conspiracy that brought it down, but it seems that it is our turn to ride down the slippery slope.
fiddle >
Yup especially in fat, lazy, corrupt, societies in their decline towards its eventual demise.
There is no turning back for the US anymore, regardless of who is in office. There may be some pockets of revival, but at the end of the day it’s only a matter of time.
Half the population survives on some sort of government funding, employment, or subsistence. Drug abuse is epidemic, crime and corruption rife at all levels in society. No decent education for most, no real jobs, no promise for the return of the required recovery manufacturing, and no will or desire of self sacrifice to make things better. Add restrictive government regulations thwarting small business productivity at all levels and the destruction is complete.
Today’s America is +310 million mainly service sector employed or jobless. Essentially uneducated slobs exponentially growing via the use of third world squatters. It has become a decadent, selfish, and racially charged society, steered by the nose by it’s many millions of liberalized urban misfits.
You simply don’t turn that sort of decline around. It is has become a very dangerous and self destructive animal.
There is no ‘agenda’ here beyond desperate advertisers who are running out of ideas to sell stuff and uptights getting the underwear in a bunch over it.
Posted by: LAS at August 5, 2012 5:34 PM
Sure there’s no agenda.
Just like there’s no agenda when the perverts in Ontario’s education system pass out pamphlets about oral sex to pre-pubescent girls and think that grade 1 is a good time to introduce sex ed to kids.
It’s propbably nothing….
There is no turning back for the US anymore, regardless of who is in office.
An old fellow I knew always said the people can’t stand prosperity. One generation makes it, the next generation spends it…it’s a cycle.
The old saying that adversity builds character is true. No worries for those who stay ahead of the game.
fiddle >
“No worries for those who stay ahead of the game.”
Agreed 100%.
But showing a chimp commercial after talking about GW Bush would have been OK.
Isn’t the whole point of evolution that all modern primates including chimpanzees and humans evolved from a common ancestor? Didn’t early homonids originate from the African continent?
That would make George Washington our first African-American president.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”
well…
when the people in charge – mostly white liberals – enable, forgive and even promote bad behavior
and when the people in charge are doing everything in their power to keep good men from doing something about evil
well…maybe in part this is inevitable – as all great civilizations eventually die – but part of it is intentional/planned
self-immolation is a “new” game…
EBD
the ruling class is particularly at fault in the decay of the culture, particularly the gutless Republicans whose main goal in life is to be politically correct.
They have become the moral cretins they are because they they are ashamed of the uber un-PC social conservatives – witness their silent assent during thpe destruction of Palin, and because they cling to the absurd hope that positioning the party as the champion of the Chamber of Commerce will be sufficient to attain majority status. A side effect of such assiduous devotion to the CoC’s is that they refuse to criticicize or take teps to stop any coarsening of America, if anyone, anywhere is earning a buck off of it.
The result is an America driving over a moral cliff, in case the fiscal one doesn’t do the job of destroying the US.
This decay will continue until the country returns to the three pillars of Reaganism: free markets and limited governments
, cultural conservatism that is consistent and unashamed, and military strength.
?
EBD, small c, well said.
Gary, the socialism is just accelerating the decline.
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom” (Proverbs 9:10).
Sorry, EBD, there’s no way around it: The decline in our moral values ending in debasement, degradation, and defilement, as you so eloquently have pointed out, has everything to do with the jettisoning the faith of our fathers and mothers to the basement — or right off the property. You mention that many who object to the sexual profligacy and moral destructiveness in our society are often mocked as “right-wing Christians.”
If you’re a Christian, you get used to these put-downs: prude, Bible thumper, redneck yahoo, when all you’re doing is trying to point out how destructive this moral swamp is to our children and the civility of our society.
I’m afraid, EBD, that unless we begin to connect the dots between the mass exodus from the West’s Judeo-Christian faith and the rise of pure decadence, we’re never going to be on the track to healing and a return to “loving your neighbour as yourself,” which was once the operative scenario/back story in Western societies. If the doctor misdiagnoses the disease, the patient grows sicker and eventually dies.
That’s us.
I’m reading Breitbart’s Righteous Indignation, in which he talks about just this conundrum in the West, targeting the perversion and decadence of Hollywood. Unfortunately, like so many commentators, he skates around the importance of our Judeo-Christian faith to, until recently, the West’s charitable and civil actions and discourse, and the consequences of kicking over its traces. He blames Marxism and the Frankfurt School — but doesn’t seem to get why these influences became so all-pervasive and have been able to undermine a society that was based on individual freedoms and personal, not collective, responsibility and accountability.
As I’ve stated so many times before – and will continue to – one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, conferred on Christians at baptism, and owned at confirmation, is the gift of discernment, allowing us to distinguish between that which is truthful and life-giving and that which is deceptive and damaging. We seem to be experiencing a massive epidemic in people who are unable to discern right from wrong, charity from crass self-interest.
We’ve got to start connecting the dots and stop skating around the obvious: When the West was largely Christian, individual rights were respected and we were civil and even charitable towards one another. Since people in the West have abandoned the faith of our forebears, en masse, we’ve seen a decline in charity and civility. There’s a relationship here; there’s a cause and effect here.
We need to own up to this.
Many thanks, batb. If you hadn’t written this, I’d have written something similar.
Even here at SDA, many intelligent people tend to overlook the connection between the loss of our Judeo-Christian faith—the foundation of the rule of law in the West—and our present decadence, which is only going to get worse. E.g., Now, as in the Chick-fil-A situation, discerning, law-abiding Christians are being punished by the state for simply exercising their first Amendment rights, while gay activists are allowed to break multiple laws, with impunity, all over the place. (We’re no better in Canada.)
Except for me, I notice that there seems to be no response to batb’s post. There’s a small number of posters here who will agree, but the majority seem to pass on by . . . Too bad. Lots of people say, “It’s got to get better.” No, it doesn’t and it won’t, as long as we are our own, little gods. As the Good Book says, you can’t turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse. The present, decadent, secular dispensation is turning out sows’ ears at an alarming rate—note all the “kiddie” riots in the past year and our police stand-downs. That’s not the sign of a mature, rule of law society: it’s anarchy—and, some day soon, more will be coming to a neighbourhood near you.
Contrary to popular wisdom, it’s hard to be a Christian: one has high standards to live up to. G.K. Chesterton: “If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.” We’re at the fall for anything stage and it’s not pretty. And, EBD, your vocabulary for what’s going on is more than adequate: “evil”.
This is a good demonstration of marginalizing someone who dares to express a legitimate concern.
No it’s a good demonstration of KULTUR WARRIORS getting all riled up with no evidence and big helping of victimhood.
“Evilness afoot”? Cultural decay? Fact is every metric from murder to rape to teen pregnancy is better than it used to be. Sorry to pop your bubble.
The moral problem of society remains the aversion to capitalism.
Batb:
Your moral certitude and goodness is a difficult topic to address for anyone who respects most Christians, and the rights of all Christians, as much as I do. Suffice to say that I consider some practicing Christians, perhaps even most of them, to be a sort of living repository of many of the most important civilizational values of the West. Like you, I am convinced that there’s a strong causal relationship, albeit not the absolute one you suggest, between the mass exodus from the West’s Judeo-Christian faith and the rise of destructive, civilization-destroying decadence and hedonism.
That being said, the problem on the ground, south of the haloes, is a little more knotty than you might allow for, albeit I understand completely that such moral certitude as you exhibit is the fundamental component of any belief that Christianity is the only solution to the problems of the human condition. First of all, (and this is the most uncomfortable truth, so I’ll get it out of the way right off the bat) there is not and never has been anything resembling an absolute correlation between professed Christian faith and decent behaviour in the real world; the correlation between between self-described decency/moral rectitude and professed Christian faith is, IMO, a far stronger one.
Secondly, a problem with any absolute, one-faith prescription is that publicly sanctimonious Christians whose behaviour doesn’t even remotely match their public moralizing are (in effect) deemed by you to be part of the solution, while non-Christians who may well be, for all you know and by any measure, less profligate/decadent/promiscuous than the average Christian, and who, like you, identify decadence and hedonism as immoral, life-destroying forces, are (in effect) deemed to be part of the problem, a problem which, once this argument swallows its own tail, isn’t decadence/hedonism/evilness per se but rather the lack of the one and only true faith.
Take Breitbart: he arguably did more than anyone outside of the church — certainly more than you or I have ever done, in effective terms – to target and expose the Hollywood machine’s promotion of hedonism, decadence, and immorality. To say he’s “(skating) around” the solution by virtue of the fact that he didn’t advance/promote a scriptural argument seems to me to be a clear case of friendly fire — assuming, of course, that the enemy is decadence, hedonism, and moral decay, and not a dearth of proselytizing.
Finally, there’s at least one impossible-to-ignore, telegraph-pole-sized spanner in the works of your assertion that the only solution to decadence is the fear of the Christian Lord: devout Muslims. They are not followers of the Judeo-Christian faith, obviously, yet they are almost inarguably less decadent than the average western Christian/Catholic, so your ‘only-one-solution’-solution fails the first and most obvious test by sole virtue of its utterly categorical nature.
Anyway, batb, there was really no need to apologize, let alone to be afraid, for so kindly and benevolently broaching the difficult and demanding topic of my faithlessness and my complicity in the downfall of western civilization; your motivation, as you’ve made clear, is pure and loving in its essence. While it may be slightly unfortunate, in a way, that I’m in a position of feeling like I should defend my morality and my understanding of the problems facing western civilization to a spokeswoman for a group that I have consistently supported and defended, I do take some comfort in knowing that this position I find myself in is a mere byproduct of your own self-assessment.
If we had teams of moral adjudicators following us around in our day-to-day lives for several years, making evaluations about how we treat the people we meet, and how civilized and decent our respective behaviours are, we could compare notes, but until that happens I’ll take your word for it that your rectitude exceeds not only mine, but that of my ilk, and I join you in encouraging all other commenters — atheist, agnostic, Hindu, Buddhist, Mormon — to do the same.
/:>)
Hey, LAS, ya’ listened to the language on the streets in the big city lately? Ya’ watched any movies lately? ‘Ya listened to any gangsta’ rap lately? ‘Ya smelled any mary-wanna in public parks lately? ‘Ya noticed you or any of your friends helping out at the In-from-the-heat/cold programs or the Food Banks in any Christian churches lately?
If you haven’t caught a whiff of the crassness, outta-my-way, decadence around you, LAS, it must be because you wearin’ the same smell.
batb >
LAS is an admitted pothead, don’t pay him any attention. The squirrels run counter-clockwise in his world.
Well said batb.
LAS- Murder, rape and teen pregnancy better than it use to be? I disagree.
There is mounting evidence In that crime statistics are being manipulated by police forces. A survey of retired police officers supports these suspicions. Police forces are under immense pressure from municipal and governments to reduce crime to increase their cities attractiveness to business and tourism, and to encourage population increases which means more tax revenue. It also provides municipalities with an excuse to limit, and save money, on officers who handle serious crimes. A reduction in serious crime makes police departments look good and saves states/provinces money in supporting convicts over the long term. It’s a win/win for everyone but the public
There are number of methods used to fudge the statistics. Too much of a drop in the crime total numbers raises the public’s eyebrows, so a significant increase in arrests are being made for public disturbances and during stop checks, and when being pulled over for traffic violations etc. There’s more truth to the “why are pulling me over instead of catching criminals” than people realize.
It also depends how statistics are being compiled – at the time of arrest or after court where persons are convicted on lesser charges and/or as the result of plea bargains.
As for reduced teen pregnancy rates, easily available abortions and then their are the pills available to take after the fact that are widely available over the counter. If teen pregnancy’s are declining as you state, why do school boards site increased teen pregnancy rates as justification for teaching sex education at increasingly younger ages? As far as I am aware, Canada has not kept stats on abortion since 2005.
Tried to post a link to support statistic manipulation, but it was caught in the filter. Search the terms “police department manipulates crime statistics” for reports. The NY Times did a piece on this topic in June of this year.
After a quick browse of the comments here I have to say that some folks take things much too seriously, on both sides. John’s F off rant is as ridiculous as the notion that the walrus ad video condones and encourages bestiality. Having been brought up in a “normal” family setting in the 60’s, my moral compass doesn’t seem to be deviated by some slick thinking ad-men in big town. It is (in my humble opinion) a stupid commercial, not worthy of disecting for subliminal messages. If it doesn’t boost the sale of Skittles then you will never see it again, except in the “worst of” compilations.
The Vegas commercial is nothing more than a catchy slogan for Vegas to recruit tourists. Having been there I can say not everyone has stories to tell (or try and remember) as they try to make it out in commercials and movies. Hell, for a lot of folks, being naughty is going outside at 3am and finding the streets full of people. Or seeing Elvis.
As much as I respect ET and batb, I honestly don’t want government to be in my life telling me what is right and what is wrong. My moral compass still reads pretty true after 60+ years and it aligns pretty well with most G*Ds, religions and ethical behavior I have encountered, the exception being some Islamic and some other sects that try to illuminate any who do not think the same as their beliefs.
Maybe the years have mellowed me but as long as you don’t force things on me then have at ‘er. I have a basic respect for all and it either goes up or down, depending on actions other than mine. The old adage of respect is earned is totally valid in my world. And, to the point, I can live with myself and my actions, and that is the bottom line for me.
You guys mostly speak as parodies of yourselves. ‘He’s a potehad so here’. Just the kind of piercing intellectual argument I expect from SoCons.
Lori: I am aware of some cases of police forces manipulating data particularly the NYPD making its own record look better to justify the ‘stop and frisk’. However you might notice that most politicians use the specter of more crime to justify more power ex gun control and more police powers. Rarely does the media and government tell people to relax. It’s still very clear that we are safer than in a long time.
LAS >
What’s a “potehad”
Heh, heh, he.
No Harold & Kumar didn’t win the academy awards, and Cheech and Chong was indeed fictional not a how to manual.
LAS- a society organized predominantly on capitalism is one organized predominantly on selfishness, and that is a very cold place, unless the actors self-interest is tempered by a concern for others well being ( outside of the immediate family ).
I don’t see how you can say that “clearly” the public is safer. Rape is reduced to sexual assault, and then further reduced to assault.
For instance, Pickton was not charged with 49+ first degree murders the police believe he was responsible for, rather just 6 second degree murders. What repository do the other 43+ missing women, presumed murder go into?
If an apartment building is robbed 15 times, it’s counted as one incident.
If you have or if you did have children, would you let them run and play free, like parents use to let their children do in the fifty’s, sixties and the early seventies? Getting on their bikes and exploring as many neighbourhoods as possible til dinner without a cellphone
Texas Canuck (6:03), I agree that the ad isn’t encouraging bestiality, but I don’t think I’m exactly going out on a limb when I point out that it is — and I don’t want to overstate the case — self-evidently playing with it in a deliberately prurient (i.e. sexually titillating) and intendedly humorous way. Now, will it lead even a single person who sees it to go out and have sex with an animal? No, not at all (at least, I assume not) but I think that Nolte’s argument, that “humour is an excellent way to get us used to and to take the shock value out of something hideous and immoral” is undeniably true, as proven by the existence of ads (and music) for young people that far exceed the boundaries in every conceivable direction on the moral chart than those of the previous generation.
“Pushing the boundaries” sell products — merchandise, candy, movies. The fact that we – and I include myself – are now sufficiently inured to transgressive ads/movies as to just shrug them off isn’t proof that there’s not something culturally amiss, or that there’s not a clear pattern going on.
One becomes inured to almost anything over time when it’s in your face, but that doesn’t make it right. To use an analogy just for the sake of argument – and to be clear, I’m not trying to posit a direct equivalence here – suppose that a similar ad directed at young people treated some other morally proscribed behaviour — say, murder, or rape — with the same glib, hip tone as the bestiality ad. Would we dismiss it as being just a “stupid commercial”?
I think we wouldn’t. The fact that we shrug off ads, targeting young people, that playfully skirt the edges of other proscribed behaviour (bestiality, cannibalism) and use dumb titillation and violation to sell merch says more about what we’ve become inured to than about the relative morality/immorality of such ads.
Thank you EBD for your thoughtful and kind response to my concerns.
I’m talking about trends. When the West was largely Christian, we didn’t have the codified human rights protocols and commissions we do today; our rules and regulations were more or less agreed upon and were predicated on Biblical mores and values that most families assented to and taught their children. (The HRCs, Texas Canuck, are government interference — I don’t recall having asked for government’s telling us what to do!)
I’m in no way saying that people who aren’t Christian can’t be morally upright human beings – or that Christianity is the sole solution to our dystopian problems. There are lots of non-Christians who care for others. What I’m talking about is a frontal attack on Christians and the Christian Church in the past century, heating up as we enter the 21st century. It used to be, at least when I was growing up in the ’50s, that even if people didn’t go to church, they supported Judeo-Christian values and mores and basically agreed that the Christian Church was a force for good in the world – much as Winston Churchill did, saying he supported the Church from the outside, like a flying buttress! They understood that our public institutions and conventions about ordering society and caring for others were based on Biblical principles.
I become somewhat disheartened, like lookout – BTW, thanks for your response – to see so little affirmation of Christian values or even a recognition that there may be a connection between the West’s loss of faith and our dropping the ball of our forebears’ faith on which the foundations of Western democracy rest. There is a general apathy and disinterest in Chrisitianity – and even an animus towards it from intellectuals, teachers, professors, the media, IOW, our chattering classes which have a huge and very negative effect on our young people. We’re now living off the capital of Judeo-Christianity and the portfolio’s getting very scant. What will or can replace Christianity as a motivating force for good in the West? One can’t force others to believe in the Christian God but there could at least be a healthy curiosity to explore Christianity and not just write it off — as I once did. Amazing Grace is my song.
Honestly, EBD, I wasn’t making any statement about your “faithlessness” or your “complicity” in the downfall of Western Civilization (!) as much as I was making a general statement about the state of affairs in our increasingly Godless world where decadence, debasement, degradation, and defilement are on the rise, as you pointed out, with the suggestion that had we held onto the faith of our fathers and mothers, we might not be in quite this pickle.
BTW, thanks Lucky Lori!
Darn it, batb, now that you’ve said that people who aren’t Christian can be moral human beings, and that Christianity isn’t the sole solution to our dystopian problems, you’ve left us with nothing to fundamentally disagree about.
That was my experience as well growing up in the ’60s. I don’t mean to sound like I’m abusing/co-opting the term Christian, but we (my family, my neighbours), whether secular/non-attending or churchgoing, were very much part of a Christian culture. We shared a common moral code, and in terms of moral behaviour there was very little to choose from between the secular/non-attending families and the churchgoing families.
I agree with you as well that we would not be in this pickle had we been able hold on to these traditional, Christian, European values, which, as you noted, have long been under attack from relativists of all stripes — intellectuals, professors, the media, and the chattering classes, but it’s almost impossible at this point to separate this erosion of faith/culture from a whole complex of causes, with prosperity arguably being the mother of them all. Our unparalleled collective wealth as a society brought free time, freedom of movement and therefore association, exposure to new cultures and new ideas of all sorts, etc., and helped precipitate this relativistic slide. I think The Pill, too, had a huge effect, especially in the context of this prosperity and rootlessness.
(Btw, just to hopefully obviate the possibility that someone might think that I’m suggesting that prosperity, free time, travel, technology, etc. are bad things, I’m not; I’m just saying that these things inevitably uproot the values of more agrarian/pastoral societies without providing a replacement for them.)
Anyway, batb, wrt “the difficult topic of…my complicity in the downfall of Western civilization”, it was tongue-in-cheek; I was gently elbowing you in the ribs over what I misread as your assertion that only practising Christians can behave in a moral way. Thanks for taking it in the right spirit; these things don’t always come across in print – even when I’m reading my own comments later, sometimes.
Here’s another ad that’s creepy and wrong. Apparently it played during the Olympics. Stolen from Ace.
Cheers, EBD! And, God bless you! 😉
EBD, excellent points. And, yes, there are many reasons for the flight from biblical values. One of the most potent, however, is “the long, [secular] march through our institutions”, started early in the 20th century and even before. So many people are now so completely ignorant of the bible and the Jewish/Christian faiths (listen to the ridiculous blather of the gay men to the homeless Christian outside a Chick-fil-A in Chicago last week) that they are ripe for the outrageous (and, yes, hateful, in its true meaning) lies and distortions about Christianity (and Judaism) served up in our institutions, including most liberal, nearly secular, Protestant churches.
Invincible ignorance does terrible things to people’s ability to think and reason clearly. The hate-on for authentic Christianity is bending the West quite out of shape—and it isn’t only from Islamists, but from a large number of useless (useful) idiots well inside our gates—as the secularists planned: beware of what one wishes for.
“Nature abhors a vacuum”: when virtue leaves, evil and depravity swoop in. That’s what we’re seeing now, big time. God help us all! (And have a fine day.)