Interesting (given the events of the last decade, quite real) perspective.
h/t: twitter.
62 Replies to “Legalize Mary Jane?”
Three disease linked to tobacco in Canada (frostbite, hypothermia and pneumonia) would be transferred to marijuana – the humanity!
No; No; No; Marijuana isn’t harmful, only that stuff from BIG Tobacco is.
Get with the program, will yah.
That’s why I don’t support the legalization of cannabis, I just want it decriminalized. Then let the capitalist system do its work. The only legislation that would be needed is harsh penalties for misrepresenting a product and adulturating it with drugs that aren’t mentioned to the purchaser before they chose to buy it.
If cannabis were legalized and the government was in control, the future course as described at the link above would likely be the eventual outcome. There is no force more capable of government than totally screwing up whatever it choses to do.
Perhaps soon hospitals will be shopping for their opiates from the black market as there is now a nation-wide shortage of injectable morphine and hydromorphone due to “problems” with the single plant in Canada that produces most injectable drugs. I would be willing to wager a considerable sum that the “problems” the plant is experiencing are almost certainly the result of government over-regulation. After all, dissolving morphine hydrochloride in isotonic saline, buffering it to pH 7.4 and sterilizing it is childs play. Only government can screw up something so simple. I’m wondering how soon I’ll be instructing nurses to crush hydromorphone tablets into a fine powder and then hand them to a patient with a straw for insnufflation. I’m sure that there are government regulations somewhere that prohibit me from doing this just like the government regulations that caused the whole “drug shortage” in the first place. /rant
What a crock the linked article is. Let’s examine it using the real life example of alcohol as the control: First, the government will create standardized packaging regulations with appropriate labeling in both official languages. Regulations will be drafted to establish size of brand name, product information and where safety labeling must appear
Here in Ontari-ari-ari-o, I can buy liquor in four basic sizes – 375 ml, 750 ml, 1.14 l, 1.75l. There are some products – not many – available in 200 ml, and there are some novelty “mega” ~5l sizes. So what’s the problem with standardized packages? (BTW, there are more safety labels on booze in the US than in Toronto.) So, BFD on this point. Next: Almost immediately, the government will add an excise tax to every pack, provincial (state) governments will add sales taxes and in Canada, GST (goods and services tax) will be charged to the whole mess. This will increase the cost of marijuana by approximately 300% as it has for cigarettes.
And that’s exactly the case with booze. A $24 bottle of liquor in Toronto consists of $7 for the actual product, and $17 for various gov’t fees and taxes. What the “rant” misses is the markup will be applied to a price related to the cost of pot production, and not the current street price, which prices in illegality, crime, lawyers, etc. My landlord smokes medical marijuana, which costs him $20/oz, or about 1/10th the current street price. Even if the price quadruples at retail, as the “bear” suggests, it’s still cheaper than current street prices. Another “point” that fails the smell test. Next: Agriculture Canada will establish standards for how marijuana can cultivated.
Already being done by Health Canada. And anyone who doesn’t think that distilleries have to meet certain standards to ensure that no methanol creeps into the final product has probably been smoking.. oh, never mind. Next: A marketing board will be established to control pricing both in Canada and its export markets
Here’s a freakin’ clue: marketing boards are NOT created by government whim – they are demanded by a select group of producers who WANT TO PROTECT THEIR OLIGOPOLY. The milk marketing board is supported by dairy farmers. Egg marketing board by egg farmers. Even the Wheat Board is supported by a bunch of farmers who don’t want to be bothered learning how to market their own grain, and don’t want to be frozen out by more nimble, cleverer farmers who take the time to do that. If a mj marketing board ever comes to pass, it’ll be because the big mj producers want to carve the market up between them, and freeze new entrants out.
In short, the article is full of ridiculous arguments that don’t even come close to passing a sniff test.
….and people ask Why I love SDA? The above is just the most recent example of why.
There is a problem with underage drinking and smoking(tobacco) right now, how will the govt deal with underage pot smokers? Also will joints go behind the wall like cigarettes? Kevin, if your landlord is paying $20 for $200 worth of pot,is the govt subsidising the growers or him for $180?
Forgot the part about the high price opening up illicit grow ops with the Mohawks smuggling the stuff, and the creation of large police task forces that pretend to be doing something about the problem.
And at that point, I guess we’ve pretty well come full circle from status quo, eh?
The article does make a good parallel between tobacco and marijuana.
Tobacco is completely legal but smokers are quickly running out of places that they can legally USE tobacco. Do the same thing for marijuana.
Go ahead, grow, buy, sell, smoke, no problem! Except you can’t smoke it here or here or this other place, definitely not over there, not within 100 feet of kids etc. etc.
Every body so far misses the fact, especially the link article that pot will never be able to be legalized and controlled like tobacco and booze because it is simply too easy to grow. It’s a weed that requires lots of sun and some water…All you have to worry about is weeding out (no pun intended)the male plants who are useless except for making the female plants grow seed which makes it yield less of desired smoking bud.
All that government can do is decriminalize it…And if they do that, they risk reducing the sales of tobacco and alcool which would mean less tax revenue in their coffers.
REALLY REALLY WHY do you think that after all these years, this benign medicinal plant is still illegal?
FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL! It has nothing to do with the health and safety of subject peons believe me.
He forgot about the eventual wave of class-action lawsuits that will result when legions of stupid smokers realize that this crap isn’t just a harmless weed and start suffering from lung problems and cancer.
My fear is incrementalism – once you legalize pot the meth heads will want their poison legalized too. And then all the other fun and exciting drugs.
I have grave reservations about that and if the social engineers do it – I will start carrying a gun and the laws be damned. We are not going to do anyone any good by legalizing this crap and we could do alot of real harm.
Great,, now instead of being bombarded with negative ads by MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving, we will be bombarded by ads from MASH (Mothers Against Stoned Hippies). I can already see the road blocks of the future, where police come to your car window, a road side breathalyzer in one hand and a blood meter analyzer in the other.
Personally I think the whole issue will be resolved by our titanic government going bankrupt. Its hard to bust stoners when you have ten cops for the whole city of Mississauga.
Personally I think the whole issue will be resolved by our titanic government going bankrupt. Its hard to bust stoners when you have ten cops for the whole city of Mississauga.
The Bear’s Rant is interesting and a little humourous, but there is one point he’s not getting. Those who want pot legalized don’t, by and large, intend to buy it from any retail establishment. No, in real tea party fashion, they mean to grow it themselves. The nation will become a country of closet growers, with most people likely involved in small-scale grow ops, one guy out of a half dozen with a garage or basement whom is willing to put up with the hassle to get a free supply. No need for the government, marketing boards, quality is controlled by the user, no taxes or fees of any kind except possibly to the municipality. No different than growing tomatoes today, except the smell will be a bit different.
Oh, and a note to Big Bad Jim; lawsuits for lung problems are unlikely, as every medical study done so far around the world has shown pot use has no more effect than possibly a slightly more propensity to cough. In fact, there has been one study done right here in Canada a couple of years ago that shows a decrease in cancer rates among pot smokers, but the government doesn’t want to publicize that one for some reason. In fact, pro-legalization lobbyists are always quick to point out that there has never been a single case of a death caused by health concerns brought on by smoking pot, ever. Not one. I’ve heard that argument at least a couple of dozen times, and I’ve never heard anyone come up with a disagreeing stat. Kinda makes one think it might be true. Draw your own conclusion.
I say go for it. On balance it will remove more wide spread social and civil evils than it will create. If having a few mindless bong-heads hanging out at fast food joints is the price I pay for getting the cops away from these no-knock no warrant raids, check stops shake downs, I say have at it.
Not to mention the billions we waste incarcerating pot smokers and trying to stop people from smoking/growing a weed that grows over 3/4 of the earth’s surface. Might even be a good federal revenue stream to get the taxing bastards off my back and onto pot smoker’s.
That’s funny. Actually, I’ve made the identical argument. I’m good with the law the way it stands. It’s available and pretty much legal unless you’re stupid. Anything the government touches is pretty much screwed up. Besides, as a conservative and semi-libertarian I think it’s a free market thing that actually helps our ecomomy big time.
Legalize Pot?
Great.
My cousins up in the mountains of North Carolina will no longer be, or become felons.
Uncle Jethro can order his weed seeds online at a reduced cost.
When he hires Mexicans to pick the marijuana crop we can hire ex-police officers to keep them from stealing bales of pot..
“Hey Maudine!”
“We can put in that new concrete swimming fish pond,
and buy a golf course next to the Grandfather mountain.”
The Big Cee; The product does have an effect; otherwise it wouldn’t be used. In countries like India the plant grows wild but smoking the stuff is frowned upon and carries a stigma with its use. Now there’s a question: why is a product with all its mythical properties more or less going to waste at the side of the road?
It appears the writer upset some of the pot smokers. Great piece. The anti-smoking industry and the MAD Madd folks have almost convinced government to put the lobby groups out of work by agreeing to their demands. They can all move over to operate PAM, as long as there are grants available.
Alcohol kills, weed doesn’t, ’nuff said
The article missed that eventually we will end up paying farmers not to grow marijuana.
Go ahead and legalize pot… In doing so, though, I fully expect that tax dollars will no longer go towards any health care or other social program deemed necessary as a result of it’s consumption…
I get completely amused by the half-wit libertarians who want to make the choice to smoke but expect society (the taxpayer) to cover the costs when things go wrong…
MC,
Passive aggressive slavery is still slavery.
Richard, you can not use a draconian freedom limiting law to further limit someone’s freedom. Universal health care is a lie and anyone who uses that as a reason to stop anyone else from living a free life just because they don’t think their tax dollars should support it? to bad so sad. I pay for abortion under the universal health care system and I don’t think being pregnant is a disease. I pay for men who are too cheap to pay for their own vasectomy,come on guy don’t be a putz pay for your own nutz.
Get over it.
Nold,
In India they don’t eat cows either, your point is?
My sister once lived next to what we were certain was a grow-op. Every nice day when we tried to have a bbq outside in the backyard, we were driven away by the stink of the marijuana smoke that wafted over the fence. This is my major objection to it. When the Libs briefly flirted with decriminalizing it a number of years ago, I was living in Ottawa. For about a month I saw people smoking weed publicly and couldn’t get away from it: bus shelters, bars,parks, etc. It reminded me of the time I spent a day in downtown Amsterdam – the place reeked of it!
Pat says “Alcohol kills, weed doesn’t, ’nuff said”.
Well no, really. Weed most certainly DOES kill. The biggest falsehood with pot is that it is harmless. It is anything but. The often mouthed babble that weed doesn’t kill is pure BS. There is no way to know how many people have been killed by someone who was using pot in a vehicle or industrial accident simply because there have rarely been such tests done after accidents. Testing for booze levels is much easier so the test is done routinely.
And it isn’t simply whether someone has caused an accident while blitzed….one wonders just how many lives have been wasted due to pot use.
Without question, the biggest danger of pot is the often repeated lie that it is “harmless”.
If we legalize pet we will have the below problems to contend with:
If the govt sell weed at say $5 a pack of 20, then the bikers, other crooks will sell it for $4.
If the govt stipulates that the THC content shall be no more than 5% THC, then the bad folks will sell their product at 7% THC and at less money.
Would not the govt be responsible for the additional cost for health care, accidents, etc. that will no doubt be caused by smoking weed.
If weed is legalized, I would bet anything that more kids would start to use the drug as now the argument is that the govt has legalized it so it must be not that bad.
How can using marihuana on a regular basis not make you a lazy, sit around listening to music all day type person….sounds like a good life, but it is not reality.
If we legalize weed, then why not Hash oil and hash, it is all from the Cannabis Sativa plant.
When I have a couple of beer after work, I dont get drunk but I dont know anyone that smokes a joint that doesn’t get totally blitzed, imparied for a few hours….there is a difference in having a beer and wings than getting stoned out of your mind.
One last example I forgot.
In Ontario and Quebec, Indians smuggle cigarettes across the border from USA and make their own….the people in these provinces do not buy govt cigarettes because the Indians sell them cheaper.
Do you think that this may hold true for the selling of Marihaua cheaply by crooks?
“they don’t eat cows either, your point is?”
The point is, here is a miracle product right at hand and yet its use is discouraged. Cannabis is as old as time itself and I think we can trust the Asian culture to have a bit of experience with this product. Myself, I have yet to meet a person heavy into the pot who can think for himself in a sustained and clear linear fashion.
Tetrahydrocannabinol is harmless. Legalize freedom now. As proud conservatives, we should be able to grow any harmless substance in our backyards and keep big brother out of the picture. Scrap nanny-state regulations. I will relax in my backyard, with plants, with cold beers, and with a 9mm, on my own private property, and shoot tin cans.
That’s harmless. That’s freedom.
Nold,
You don’t get it, I do NOT trust others to just up and decide what is best for me, mine and the rest of the country. I do not trust ME to decide for the rest of the world what is best for them. It is not my place to let my fears rule you and it is not your place to let your fears rule the rest of mankind..
BTW, they still don’t eat cows, should we trust the Asian culture to be correct about that too? Cows are a pretty ancient species and the Indian probably know what they are doing by not eating those? Right? Not so much.
Also I would like to point out that I haven’t met to many folks that were “heavily” into alcohol who were all that linear (expect when they were passed out of course) or clear thinking.
Mike your crazy do really think that is all that is in marjiuana?
I like you and most of what you say in here , that is a brainless remark sorry,
cyanyde,formeldahyde,benzyne,just to name a few and most are in higher doses than in a cigarette , in fact there are around 400 different chemicals in marijuana,and about 450 in cigarettes.
Here is what i propose privatize healthcare and fil your boot’s , not one tax dollar can go towards anything related to legalizing ,any of the next to come drugs , meth ,mary jane, “E”, so on and so forth.
Just remember with freedom and liberties comes ,accountability,and responsibility, you dont just get all the good stuff and leave out the bad i know all you see is freedom and liberty , but they go hand in hand with the other two dont ever forget that ,
that’s harmless, THAT’S!! freedom!!
Richard Evans >
“I get completely amused by the half-wit libertarians who want to make the choice to smoke but expect society (the taxpayer) to cover the costs when things go wrong…”
I agree with the expecting someone else to pay for it bit but not the libertarian part so much.
I would hazard that the bulk of the Canadian “legalize pot” crowd are way out there Liberal lefties, the same ones that want guns banned. They aren’t smoking pot for recreational use; they are self medicating psychological disorders instead of exposing themselves to medical scrutiny and prescription drugs like Lithium.
Yup to be sure there are true libertarians out there that do advocate freedom of drug use, gun ownership etcetera, but that does not necessarily make them pot smokers, at least not the smart ones. Even if some did, common sense would dictate that legalization would bring on bigger government with more regulation and bureaucracy, which is not a libertarian desire. That said smoking pot is generally ignored by police and a misdemeanor at best in most western countries. It’s selling it that is the big criminal offense. Even if pot was legalized to smoke it would be illegal to sell with most probably higher prison sentences, because now you’re double dipping by stealing from the government.
You never want to steal the government’s money.
As Loki said, decriminalizing use is the way to go, although it’s generally decriminalized anyway. What should not change are the rights of businesses and companies to drug screen employees at their own discretion, nor change the driving or operating equipment under the influence standards.
That’s where many “potheads” really want to go with this at the end of the day, the ability to get high and go to work without consequences, or work in industries where even if they are not “high” they cannot be employed with illegal drugs in their system. THC apparently takes a month or so to clear your system after use, alcohol +/- 24 hr or so.
As an employer I should have the full right to refuse employment to anyone habitually using drugs for recreation or self medication regardless.
Sorry for the double post.
Mike in Calgary >
Yup I agree, people should have the right to do what they want with their own bodies, including poisoning them or committing suicide.
However society should also have the right to not employ them, provide social assistance, or medical care etcetera.
So I’m with you, providing we privatize all of these currently tax funded services and give employers the same free rights to refuse employment to whomever they wish, including drug users.
We should also have the ability to protect ourselves with lethal force and concealed carry, especially from the unemployed drug abusers.
That is freedom for everybody, not just the entitlement crowd who expect to get high all day long and have society put up with their excesses because it’s their freedom to do so.
“it is not your place to let your fears rule the rest of mankind”
So how far do we go with that? I might not like wearing any clothing on a hot summer day. Are you fine with that?
“they still don’t eat cows, should we trust the Asian culture to be correct about that too?”
Not everyone in India is against eating meat and meat is readily available for purchase. Western people smirk at some aspects of the Asian culture, especially their deference to religious customs, but in that regard, I see more mutual respect for all religions, than there is here actually.
The Babysitter – “Jailing addicts and pot smokers has worked so well so far”
Who has went to jail in the last 40 years? The typical fine for weed possession is less than for smoking cigarettes.
nold – “I see more mutual respect for all religions, than there is here actually”
Bull$hit.
Died in Indian for religious beliefs in last 100 years – millions
Died in Canada for religious beliefs in last 100 years – maybe a handful.
Posted by: paul in calgary at March 1, 2012 11:44 AM
The chemical make up means next to nothing. There are 371 chemicals listed and many are toxic.
ALANINE, ACETONE, ACETALDEHYDE, ALPHA LINOLENIC ACID, ALUMINUM, ARSENIC, ASARONE, ALPHA TERPINENE, BORNYL ACETATE, BORON, BROMINE, BUTYRIC ACID, CADMIUM, CAMPHOR, CHOLESTEROL, CHOLINE, CHROMIUM, COBALT, CYSTINE, CYSTEINE, ETHANOL, FORMIC ACID, FUMARIC ACID, GLUTAMIC ACID, HYDROGEN CYANIDE, ISOBUTYRIC ACID, ISOPRENE, LAURIC ACID, LEAD, LECITHIN, LITHIUM, LYSINE, MALIC ACID, MERCURY, METHYLAMINE, MYRISTICIN, NICKEL, OXALIC ACID, PHENYLALANINE, PHOSPHORUS, QUERCETIN, SILICON, STEARIC ACID, SULFUR, TARTARIC ACID, TIN, TITANIUM, TRYPTOPHAN, XYLITOL.
in carrots
paul in calgary: >>
1) I never said I supported legalizing any substance other than cannabis marijuana.
2) cyanyde, formeldahyde, tar, & benzyne are also contained in tobacco products, which should also remain legal.
3) Knight 99 is correct in that individual & property rights should be able to supercede pot smokers’ rights; pot smokers thereby should exempt themselves from nanny-state entitlements. Only in a perfect world, unfortunately!
4) A pot smoker has never been charged with impaired driving.
I’m all for private health care and a return to the standard of personal responsibility — and liberty!
Being self employed and associating mostly with successful self employed business people, I haven’t seen any pot in 30- 40 years. Are we sure people who smoke pot are not underachieving and pretty much useless humanity? Which came first – the underachiever or the pothead?
peterj, nice listing. Now where have I sen a similar list. Oh yes, I remember now. So will we be seeing graphic pictures on bags of carrots, no advertising, age restrictions and restricted numbers of places we can eat them?
All of this is nothing but agenda driven politics.
No offense Scar but not every being defines a successful life by the same means.
The Grey Lady – “No offense Scar but not every being defines a successful life by the same means.”
No offense taken if you define failure as success.
I am a failure,
I have an accounting degree I do not use, I have almost as many children as most folks, baring unfortunate accidents, have fingers or toes. Most of my children are so called unadoptables, they are special needs. I do not “work” outside of the home, I grow a lot of our food ,cook from scratch, home school some and take in children from other countries who come here from charitable medical procedures.
Monetary and “career” Failure is an option for some. Just saying that the pursuit of the almighty dollar does not drive every soul. I also have no problem with the pursuit of the almighty dollar as a sign of success. I believe it is legitimate to measure success differently.
BTW I do not use weed or any of it’s friends I just have no need to stop others from using it in order to feel right with the world.
Too many weirdos on dope.
How’d they get there, beer?
Years ago (20),in a previous life,one of my buddies and his ‘friends’ were growing dope for their own commercial purposes.
Neither one of us smoked. He was strongly against legalization,I was and still am for legalization.
It was all about the money for him,nothing else.Legalization will take profits away from some,and give them to others.
You got me Scar. I have an excuse though; I just reread Kipling’s Kim and I’m an expert on India. Remember the part where Kim takes the money from the old lama as he’s leaving to go out, so that the lama won’t be able to buy the smoking drugs from the fellow traveler and inadvertently reveal everything.
Mike in Calgary >
Agreed.
My argument also goes for any of the excesses that people wish to abuse themselves with regardless of whether it’s smoking, alcohol, drugs, gambling, or eating fat burgers and chicken McNuggets until they weigh 400Lbs.
I think everyone has a right to do it; they just don’t have the right to make me pay for the fallout whether it’s “free” medical care or criminal behaviours to support their excess problems.
Generally the driving forces behind the legalize pot agenda is the Liberal Left who hypocritically demand a big government nanny state that disarms the public’s right to protect themselves, both physically along with any “undesirable” freedom of speech (criticism). In turn they want a Socialist government to give them the freedom to get high and force other people to shut-up, put-up, and pay-up.
No friggen way! If we drop the nanny state that forces me to pay for all of this crap, and give me the full legal rights to arm and defend myself from Liberalism, I will wholeheartedly swear for legalizing pot or even cranking rat poison into their veins.
It would be the fair thing to do.
Ted High: (nice nickname in this thread) Kevin, if your landlord is paying $20 for $200 worth of pot,is the govt subsidising the growers or him for $180?
Neither, you dolt. Let me explain this in small words you might understand. 1) Marijuana (MJ) is illegal. 2) Because it’s illegal, the criminals who sell it need a very high profit to offset the risks of arrest, court (lawyers) and jail, and to pay the bribes to law enforcement officials. 3) Legal MJ is free of these costs. 4) MJ is relatively cheap and easy to grow – in terms of fertilizer, pesticide, etc., it’s cheaper to grow an acre of MJ than an acre of corn. 5) Thus, the price of medical marijuana is closely related to the cost of production (which includes all the costs related to government certification, inspection, etc.), while the street price is related to the costs of sourcing and selling in the black market. They have nothing to do with each other, except the first is always much lower than the second.
So, no one is getting subsidized by medical marijuana – not my landlord, not the supply house. Understand?
Mike L(user) trots out the tired canard that crooks will undercut the gov’t MJ price. No, for exactly the same reasons that we don’t have organized crime selling illegal booze outside every high school – there’s not enough profit in it to overcome the costs of getting caught. Each individual guilty of selling illegal liquor can be fined up to $200,000, and go to jail. Let’s say you sell your illegal hooch for $17/btl, as opposed to $24 at the LCBO, and your profit is $10/btl after all your costs. You’d have to sell 20,000 bottles without being caught, just to break even, if you’re caught selling the next bottle. No criminal would bother.
Three disease linked to tobacco in Canada (frostbite, hypothermia and pneumonia) would be transferred to marijuana – the humanity!
No; No; No; Marijuana isn’t harmful, only that stuff from BIG Tobacco is.
Get with the program, will yah.
That’s why I don’t support the legalization of cannabis, I just want it decriminalized. Then let the capitalist system do its work. The only legislation that would be needed is harsh penalties for misrepresenting a product and adulturating it with drugs that aren’t mentioned to the purchaser before they chose to buy it.
If cannabis were legalized and the government was in control, the future course as described at the link above would likely be the eventual outcome. There is no force more capable of government than totally screwing up whatever it choses to do.
Perhaps soon hospitals will be shopping for their opiates from the black market as there is now a nation-wide shortage of injectable morphine and hydromorphone due to “problems” with the single plant in Canada that produces most injectable drugs. I would be willing to wager a considerable sum that the “problems” the plant is experiencing are almost certainly the result of government over-regulation. After all, dissolving morphine hydrochloride in isotonic saline, buffering it to pH 7.4 and sterilizing it is childs play. Only government can screw up something so simple. I’m wondering how soon I’ll be instructing nurses to crush hydromorphone tablets into a fine powder and then hand them to a patient with a straw for insnufflation. I’m sure that there are government regulations somewhere that prohibit me from doing this just like the government regulations that caused the whole “drug shortage” in the first place. /rant
What a crock the linked article is. Let’s examine it using the real life example of alcohol as the control:
First, the government will create standardized packaging regulations with appropriate labeling in both official languages. Regulations will be drafted to establish size of brand name, product information and where safety labeling must appear
Here in Ontari-ari-ari-o, I can buy liquor in four basic sizes – 375 ml, 750 ml, 1.14 l, 1.75l. There are some products – not many – available in 200 ml, and there are some novelty “mega” ~5l sizes. So what’s the problem with standardized packages? (BTW, there are more safety labels on booze in the US than in Toronto.) So, BFD on this point. Next:
Almost immediately, the government will add an excise tax to every pack, provincial (state) governments will add sales taxes and in Canada, GST (goods and services tax) will be charged to the whole mess. This will increase the cost of marijuana by approximately 300% as it has for cigarettes.
And that’s exactly the case with booze. A $24 bottle of liquor in Toronto consists of $7 for the actual product, and $17 for various gov’t fees and taxes. What the “rant” misses is the markup will be applied to a price related to the cost of pot production, and not the current street price, which prices in illegality, crime, lawyers, etc. My landlord smokes medical marijuana, which costs him $20/oz, or about 1/10th the current street price. Even if the price quadruples at retail, as the “bear” suggests, it’s still cheaper than current street prices. Another “point” that fails the smell test. Next:
Agriculture Canada will establish standards for how marijuana can cultivated.
Already being done by Health Canada. And anyone who doesn’t think that distilleries have to meet certain standards to ensure that no methanol creeps into the final product has probably been smoking.. oh, never mind. Next:
A marketing board will be established to control pricing both in Canada and its export markets
Here’s a freakin’ clue: marketing boards are NOT created by government whim – they are demanded by a select group of producers who WANT TO PROTECT THEIR OLIGOPOLY. The milk marketing board is supported by dairy farmers. Egg marketing board by egg farmers. Even the Wheat Board is supported by a bunch of farmers who don’t want to be bothered learning how to market their own grain, and don’t want to be frozen out by more nimble, cleverer farmers who take the time to do that. If a mj marketing board ever comes to pass, it’ll be because the big mj producers want to carve the market up between them, and freeze new entrants out.
In short, the article is full of ridiculous arguments that don’t even come close to passing a sniff test.
….and people ask Why I love SDA? The above is just the most recent example of why.
There is a problem with underage drinking and smoking(tobacco) right now, how will the govt deal with underage pot smokers? Also will joints go behind the wall like cigarettes? Kevin, if your landlord is paying $20 for $200 worth of pot,is the govt subsidising the growers or him for $180?
Forgot the part about the high price opening up illicit grow ops with the Mohawks smuggling the stuff, and the creation of large police task forces that pretend to be doing something about the problem.
And at that point, I guess we’ve pretty well come full circle from status quo, eh?
The article does make a good parallel between tobacco and marijuana.
Tobacco is completely legal but smokers are quickly running out of places that they can legally USE tobacco. Do the same thing for marijuana.
Go ahead, grow, buy, sell, smoke, no problem! Except you can’t smoke it here or here or this other place, definitely not over there, not within 100 feet of kids etc. etc.
Every body so far misses the fact, especially the link article that pot will never be able to be legalized and controlled like tobacco and booze because it is simply too easy to grow. It’s a weed that requires lots of sun and some water…All you have to worry about is weeding out (no pun intended)the male plants who are useless except for making the female plants grow seed which makes it yield less of desired smoking bud.
All that government can do is decriminalize it…And if they do that, they risk reducing the sales of tobacco and alcool which would mean less tax revenue in their coffers.
REALLY REALLY WHY do you think that after all these years, this benign medicinal plant is still illegal?
FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL! It has nothing to do with the health and safety of subject peons believe me.
He forgot about the eventual wave of class-action lawsuits that will result when legions of stupid smokers realize that this crap isn’t just a harmless weed and start suffering from lung problems and cancer.
My fear is incrementalism – once you legalize pot the meth heads will want their poison legalized too. And then all the other fun and exciting drugs.
I have grave reservations about that and if the social engineers do it – I will start carrying a gun and the laws be damned. We are not going to do anyone any good by legalizing this crap and we could do alot of real harm.
Great,, now instead of being bombarded with negative ads by MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving, we will be bombarded by ads from MASH (Mothers Against Stoned Hippies). I can already see the road blocks of the future, where police come to your car window, a road side breathalyzer in one hand and a blood meter analyzer in the other.
Personally I think the whole issue will be resolved by our titanic government going bankrupt. Its hard to bust stoners when you have ten cops for the whole city of Mississauga.
Personally I think the whole issue will be resolved by our titanic government going bankrupt. Its hard to bust stoners when you have ten cops for the whole city of Mississauga.
The Bear’s Rant is interesting and a little humourous, but there is one point he’s not getting. Those who want pot legalized don’t, by and large, intend to buy it from any retail establishment. No, in real tea party fashion, they mean to grow it themselves. The nation will become a country of closet growers, with most people likely involved in small-scale grow ops, one guy out of a half dozen with a garage or basement whom is willing to put up with the hassle to get a free supply. No need for the government, marketing boards, quality is controlled by the user, no taxes or fees of any kind except possibly to the municipality. No different than growing tomatoes today, except the smell will be a bit different.
Oh, and a note to Big Bad Jim; lawsuits for lung problems are unlikely, as every medical study done so far around the world has shown pot use has no more effect than possibly a slightly more propensity to cough. In fact, there has been one study done right here in Canada a couple of years ago that shows a decrease in cancer rates among pot smokers, but the government doesn’t want to publicize that one for some reason. In fact, pro-legalization lobbyists are always quick to point out that there has never been a single case of a death caused by health concerns brought on by smoking pot, ever. Not one. I’ve heard that argument at least a couple of dozen times, and I’ve never heard anyone come up with a disagreeing stat. Kinda makes one think it might be true. Draw your own conclusion.
I say go for it. On balance it will remove more wide spread social and civil evils than it will create. If having a few mindless bong-heads hanging out at fast food joints is the price I pay for getting the cops away from these no-knock no warrant raids, check stops shake downs, I say have at it.
Not to mention the billions we waste incarcerating pot smokers and trying to stop people from smoking/growing a weed that grows over 3/4 of the earth’s surface. Might even be a good federal revenue stream to get the taxing bastards off my back and onto pot smoker’s.
That’s funny. Actually, I’ve made the identical argument. I’m good with the law the way it stands. It’s available and pretty much legal unless you’re stupid. Anything the government touches is pretty much screwed up. Besides, as a conservative and semi-libertarian I think it’s a free market thing that actually helps our ecomomy big time.
Legalize Pot?
Great.
My cousins up in the mountains of North Carolina will no longer be, or become felons.
Uncle Jethro can order his weed seeds online at a reduced cost.
When he hires Mexicans to pick the marijuana crop we can hire ex-police officers to keep them from stealing bales of pot..
“Hey Maudine!”
“We can put in that new concrete swimming fish pond,
and buy a golf course next to the Grandfather mountain.”
The Big Cee; The product does have an effect; otherwise it wouldn’t be used. In countries like India the plant grows wild but smoking the stuff is frowned upon and carries a stigma with its use. Now there’s a question: why is a product with all its mythical properties more or less going to waste at the side of the road?
It appears the writer upset some of the pot smokers. Great piece. The anti-smoking industry and the MAD Madd folks have almost convinced government to put the lobby groups out of work by agreeing to their demands. They can all move over to operate PAM, as long as there are grants available.
Alcohol kills, weed doesn’t, ’nuff said
The article missed that eventually we will end up paying farmers not to grow marijuana.
Go ahead and legalize pot… In doing so, though, I fully expect that tax dollars will no longer go towards any health care or other social program deemed necessary as a result of it’s consumption…
I get completely amused by the half-wit libertarians who want to make the choice to smoke but expect society (the taxpayer) to cover the costs when things go wrong…
MC,
Passive aggressive slavery is still slavery.
Richard, you can not use a draconian freedom limiting law to further limit someone’s freedom. Universal health care is a lie and anyone who uses that as a reason to stop anyone else from living a free life just because they don’t think their tax dollars should support it? to bad so sad. I pay for abortion under the universal health care system and I don’t think being pregnant is a disease. I pay for men who are too cheap to pay for their own vasectomy,come on guy don’t be a putz pay for your own nutz.
Get over it.
Nold,
In India they don’t eat cows either, your point is?
My sister once lived next to what we were certain was a grow-op. Every nice day when we tried to have a bbq outside in the backyard, we were driven away by the stink of the marijuana smoke that wafted over the fence. This is my major objection to it. When the Libs briefly flirted with decriminalizing it a number of years ago, I was living in Ottawa. For about a month I saw people smoking weed publicly and couldn’t get away from it: bus shelters, bars,parks, etc. It reminded me of the time I spent a day in downtown Amsterdam – the place reeked of it!
Pat says “Alcohol kills, weed doesn’t, ’nuff said”.
Well no, really. Weed most certainly DOES kill. The biggest falsehood with pot is that it is harmless. It is anything but. The often mouthed babble that weed doesn’t kill is pure BS. There is no way to know how many people have been killed by someone who was using pot in a vehicle or industrial accident simply because there have rarely been such tests done after accidents. Testing for booze levels is much easier so the test is done routinely.
And it isn’t simply whether someone has caused an accident while blitzed….one wonders just how many lives have been wasted due to pot use.
Without question, the biggest danger of pot is the often repeated lie that it is “harmless”.
If we legalize pet we will have the below problems to contend with:
If the govt sell weed at say $5 a pack of 20, then the bikers, other crooks will sell it for $4.
If the govt stipulates that the THC content shall be no more than 5% THC, then the bad folks will sell their product at 7% THC and at less money.
Would not the govt be responsible for the additional cost for health care, accidents, etc. that will no doubt be caused by smoking weed.
If weed is legalized, I would bet anything that more kids would start to use the drug as now the argument is that the govt has legalized it so it must be not that bad.
How can using marihuana on a regular basis not make you a lazy, sit around listening to music all day type person….sounds like a good life, but it is not reality.
If we legalize weed, then why not Hash oil and hash, it is all from the Cannabis Sativa plant.
When I have a couple of beer after work, I dont get drunk but I dont know anyone that smokes a joint that doesn’t get totally blitzed, imparied for a few hours….there is a difference in having a beer and wings than getting stoned out of your mind.
One last example I forgot.
In Ontario and Quebec, Indians smuggle cigarettes across the border from USA and make their own….the people in these provinces do not buy govt cigarettes because the Indians sell them cheaper.
Do you think that this may hold true for the selling of Marihaua cheaply by crooks?
“they don’t eat cows either, your point is?”
The point is, here is a miracle product right at hand and yet its use is discouraged. Cannabis is as old as time itself and I think we can trust the Asian culture to have a bit of experience with this product. Myself, I have yet to meet a person heavy into the pot who can think for himself in a sustained and clear linear fashion.
Tetrahydrocannabinol is harmless. Legalize freedom now. As proud conservatives, we should be able to grow any harmless substance in our backyards and keep big brother out of the picture. Scrap nanny-state regulations. I will relax in my backyard, with plants, with cold beers, and with a 9mm, on my own private property, and shoot tin cans.
That’s harmless. That’s freedom.
Nold,
You don’t get it, I do NOT trust others to just up and decide what is best for me, mine and the rest of the country. I do not trust ME to decide for the rest of the world what is best for them. It is not my place to let my fears rule you and it is not your place to let your fears rule the rest of mankind..
BTW, they still don’t eat cows, should we trust the Asian culture to be correct about that too? Cows are a pretty ancient species and the Indian probably know what they are doing by not eating those? Right? Not so much.
Also I would like to point out that I haven’t met to many folks that were “heavily” into alcohol who were all that linear (expect when they were passed out of course) or clear thinking.
Mike your crazy do really think that is all that is in marjiuana?
I like you and most of what you say in here , that is a brainless remark sorry,
cyanyde,formeldahyde,benzyne,just to name a few and most are in higher doses than in a cigarette , in fact there are around 400 different chemicals in marijuana,and about 450 in cigarettes.
Here is what i propose privatize healthcare and fil your boot’s , not one tax dollar can go towards anything related to legalizing ,any of the next to come drugs , meth ,mary jane, “E”, so on and so forth.
Just remember with freedom and liberties comes ,accountability,and responsibility, you dont just get all the good stuff and leave out the bad i know all you see is freedom and liberty , but they go hand in hand with the other two dont ever forget that ,
that’s harmless, THAT’S!! freedom!!
Richard Evans >
“I get completely amused by the half-wit libertarians who want to make the choice to smoke but expect society (the taxpayer) to cover the costs when things go wrong…”
I agree with the expecting someone else to pay for it bit but not the libertarian part so much.
I would hazard that the bulk of the Canadian “legalize pot” crowd are way out there Liberal lefties, the same ones that want guns banned. They aren’t smoking pot for recreational use; they are self medicating psychological disorders instead of exposing themselves to medical scrutiny and prescription drugs like Lithium.
Yup to be sure there are true libertarians out there that do advocate freedom of drug use, gun ownership etcetera, but that does not necessarily make them pot smokers, at least not the smart ones. Even if some did, common sense would dictate that legalization would bring on bigger government with more regulation and bureaucracy, which is not a libertarian desire. That said smoking pot is generally ignored by police and a misdemeanor at best in most western countries. It’s selling it that is the big criminal offense. Even if pot was legalized to smoke it would be illegal to sell with most probably higher prison sentences, because now you’re double dipping by stealing from the government.
You never want to steal the government’s money.
As Loki said, decriminalizing use is the way to go, although it’s generally decriminalized anyway. What should not change are the rights of businesses and companies to drug screen employees at their own discretion, nor change the driving or operating equipment under the influence standards.
That’s where many “potheads” really want to go with this at the end of the day, the ability to get high and go to work without consequences, or work in industries where even if they are not “high” they cannot be employed with illegal drugs in their system. THC apparently takes a month or so to clear your system after use, alcohol +/- 24 hr or so.
As an employer I should have the full right to refuse employment to anyone habitually using drugs for recreation or self medication regardless.
Sorry for the double post.
Mike in Calgary >
Yup I agree, people should have the right to do what they want with their own bodies, including poisoning them or committing suicide.
However society should also have the right to not employ them, provide social assistance, or medical care etcetera.
So I’m with you, providing we privatize all of these currently tax funded services and give employers the same free rights to refuse employment to whomever they wish, including drug users.
We should also have the ability to protect ourselves with lethal force and concealed carry, especially from the unemployed drug abusers.
That is freedom for everybody, not just the entitlement crowd who expect to get high all day long and have society put up with their excesses because it’s their freedom to do so.
“it is not your place to let your fears rule the rest of mankind”
So how far do we go with that? I might not like wearing any clothing on a hot summer day. Are you fine with that?
“they still don’t eat cows, should we trust the Asian culture to be correct about that too?”
Not everyone in India is against eating meat and meat is readily available for purchase. Western people smirk at some aspects of the Asian culture, especially their deference to religious customs, but in that regard, I see more mutual respect for all religions, than there is here actually.
The Babysitter – “Jailing addicts and pot smokers has worked so well so far”
Who has went to jail in the last 40 years? The typical fine for weed possession is less than for smoking cigarettes.
nold – “I see more mutual respect for all religions, than there is here actually”
Bull$hit.
Died in Indian for religious beliefs in last 100 years – millions
Died in Canada for religious beliefs in last 100 years – maybe a handful.
Posted by: paul in calgary at March 1, 2012 11:44 AM
The chemical make up means next to nothing. There are 371 chemicals listed and many are toxic.
ALANINE, ACETONE, ACETALDEHYDE, ALPHA LINOLENIC ACID, ALUMINUM, ARSENIC, ASARONE, ALPHA TERPINENE, BORNYL ACETATE, BORON, BROMINE, BUTYRIC ACID, CADMIUM, CAMPHOR, CHOLESTEROL, CHOLINE, CHROMIUM, COBALT, CYSTINE, CYSTEINE, ETHANOL, FORMIC ACID, FUMARIC ACID, GLUTAMIC ACID, HYDROGEN CYANIDE, ISOBUTYRIC ACID, ISOPRENE, LAURIC ACID, LEAD, LECITHIN, LITHIUM, LYSINE, MALIC ACID, MERCURY, METHYLAMINE, MYRISTICIN, NICKEL, OXALIC ACID, PHENYLALANINE, PHOSPHORUS, QUERCETIN, SILICON, STEARIC ACID, SULFUR, TARTARIC ACID, TIN, TITANIUM, TRYPTOPHAN, XYLITOL.
in carrots
paul in calgary: >>
1) I never said I supported legalizing any substance other than cannabis marijuana.
2) cyanyde, formeldahyde, tar, & benzyne are also contained in tobacco products, which should also remain legal.
3) Knight 99 is correct in that individual & property rights should be able to supercede pot smokers’ rights; pot smokers thereby should exempt themselves from nanny-state entitlements. Only in a perfect world, unfortunately!
4) A pot smoker has never been charged with impaired driving.
I’m all for private health care and a return to the standard of personal responsibility — and liberty!
Being self employed and associating mostly with successful self employed business people, I haven’t seen any pot in 30- 40 years. Are we sure people who smoke pot are not underachieving and pretty much useless humanity? Which came first – the underachiever or the pothead?
peterj, nice listing. Now where have I sen a similar list. Oh yes, I remember now. So will we be seeing graphic pictures on bags of carrots, no advertising, age restrictions and restricted numbers of places we can eat them?
All of this is nothing but agenda driven politics.
No offense Scar but not every being defines a successful life by the same means.
The Grey Lady – “No offense Scar but not every being defines a successful life by the same means.”
No offense taken if you define failure as success.
I am a failure,
I have an accounting degree I do not use, I have almost as many children as most folks, baring unfortunate accidents, have fingers or toes. Most of my children are so called unadoptables, they are special needs. I do not “work” outside of the home, I grow a lot of our food ,cook from scratch, home school some and take in children from other countries who come here from charitable medical procedures.
Monetary and “career” Failure is an option for some. Just saying that the pursuit of the almighty dollar does not drive every soul. I also have no problem with the pursuit of the almighty dollar as a sign of success. I believe it is legitimate to measure success differently.
BTW I do not use weed or any of it’s friends I just have no need to stop others from using it in order to feel right with the world.
Too many weirdos on dope.
How’d they get there, beer?
Years ago (20),in a previous life,one of my buddies and his ‘friends’ were growing dope for their own commercial purposes.
Neither one of us smoked. He was strongly against legalization,I was and still am for legalization.
It was all about the money for him,nothing else.Legalization will take profits away from some,and give them to others.
You got me Scar. I have an excuse though; I just reread Kipling’s Kim and I’m an expert on India. Remember the part where Kim takes the money from the old lama as he’s leaving to go out, so that the lama won’t be able to buy the smoking drugs from the fellow traveler and inadvertently reveal everything.
Mike in Calgary >
Agreed.
My argument also goes for any of the excesses that people wish to abuse themselves with regardless of whether it’s smoking, alcohol, drugs, gambling, or eating fat burgers and chicken McNuggets until they weigh 400Lbs.
I think everyone has a right to do it; they just don’t have the right to make me pay for the fallout whether it’s “free” medical care or criminal behaviours to support their excess problems.
Generally the driving forces behind the legalize pot agenda is the Liberal Left who hypocritically demand a big government nanny state that disarms the public’s right to protect themselves, both physically along with any “undesirable” freedom of speech (criticism). In turn they want a Socialist government to give them the freedom to get high and force other people to shut-up, put-up, and pay-up.
No friggen way! If we drop the nanny state that forces me to pay for all of this crap, and give me the full legal rights to arm and defend myself from Liberalism, I will wholeheartedly swear for legalizing pot or even cranking rat poison into their veins.
It would be the fair thing to do.
Ted High: (nice nickname in this thread)
Kevin, if your landlord is paying $20 for $200 worth of pot,is the govt subsidising the growers or him for $180?
Neither, you dolt. Let me explain this in small words you might understand. 1) Marijuana (MJ) is illegal. 2) Because it’s illegal, the criminals who sell it need a very high profit to offset the risks of arrest, court (lawyers) and jail, and to pay the bribes to law enforcement officials. 3) Legal MJ is free of these costs. 4) MJ is relatively cheap and easy to grow – in terms of fertilizer, pesticide, etc., it’s cheaper to grow an acre of MJ than an acre of corn. 5) Thus, the price of medical marijuana is closely related to the cost of production (which includes all the costs related to government certification, inspection, etc.), while the street price is related to the costs of sourcing and selling in the black market. They have nothing to do with each other, except the first is always much lower than the second.
So, no one is getting subsidized by medical marijuana – not my landlord, not the supply house. Understand?
Mike L(user) trots out the tired canard that crooks will undercut the gov’t MJ price. No, for exactly the same reasons that we don’t have organized crime selling illegal booze outside every high school – there’s not enough profit in it to overcome the costs of getting caught. Each individual guilty of selling illegal liquor can be fined up to $200,000, and go to jail. Let’s say you sell your illegal hooch for $17/btl, as opposed to $24 at the LCBO, and your profit is $10/btl after all your costs. You’d have to sell 20,000 bottles without being caught, just to break even, if you’re caught selling the next bottle. No criminal would bother.