Here’s a summary of what happened in Iowa Tuesday night. The big question is, does this give Rick Santorum enough propulsion to dramatically change the Republican presidential candidate race?
Here’s the voting schedule. What are your predictions for New Hampshire on January 10th?
Perry just pretty much bailed.
At the moment, it could go either way. They’re waiting for SOME GUY in a truck to deliver the last ballots.
As many have pointed out elsewhere, winning Iowa is no guarantee of winning the convention. Last go round, McCain finished 4th in Iowa, but still ended up the nominee (and he received all 44 of Iowa’s votes at the convention). New Hampshire will be much more telling of the eventual race; it’s right next door to Romney’s MA, and I’m sure many people who made big bucks with him at Bain are retired and living next door to Mark Steyn in bucolic NH.
Biggest question is Santorum the latest “flavour of the week” Republican hopeful, subject to flaming out like Bachman, Perry, Cain, etc., or will he energize the “Mitts Off” brigade? I don’t pretend to have an answer for that yet.
Best news was a strong showing for Paul; he has the best chance, IMHO, of weathering the storm and staying in against Mitt, especially if another war is fomented with Iran, as many speculate is going to happen.
I believe that the best bet for America would be a Ron Paul / Pat Buchanan ticket for the presidency. Ron Paul’s free market economic views on decreasing the size of government and his opposition to the disasterous fiat currency of the federal reserve system; combined with Pat Buchanan’s cultural conservatism and his opposition to the immigration tsunami and affirmative action, would be a potent threat to the liberal establishment.
I,m for anybody who can beat Obama except Ron Paul. Hes a nut. When George Soros supports you, you know you have a problem.
I don’t want to see a Jew hating xenophobic isolationist, in the place of a Jew hating Muslim Marxist. Nor any combination.
I want to see anyone but these fruitcakes in.
Ron Paul definitely has the ‘truther’ vote in his pocket.Nothing more has to be said about the man.
Somehow I believe it doesn’t matter who gets the GOP nomination, the upcoming presidential election is going to be ugly and Obama will win, then Michelle, then his kids…..
Rick Santorum has leadership qualities. He’s a good man.
Wallyj, Revnant Dream: Neither of you know what you’re talking about. You wouldn’t know true conservatism if it hit you in the face. Ever heard of “living within your means”? “Government is the problem — not the solution”? “Don’t spend more than you take in”? Because if you vote for any *but* Ron Paul, you believe in leaving our grandchildren with a third-world country with a devalued currency.
Be a *real* conservative. Balance the budget right effing NOW. Stop spending, right effing NOW. Pay down the debt right effing NOW.
Your misattributions of Paul being a ‘truther’ just don’t work anymore. Intelligent people know you have tho choices: 1) billion-dollar deficit budgets indefinitely 2) Cuts. Now.
Only Ron Paul will deliver.
Gun control? Gone.
Abortion funding? Gone.
Millions of paper-pushing government employees? Gone.
Bureaucratic policies? Gone.
Cradle-to-grave welfare? Gone.
Income tax & IRS? Gone.
Obama care? Gone.
Anchor baby citizenship? Gone.
Illegal immigrants? Deported.
Ponzi scheme unsustainable social security? Gone.
Free medicare for illegal immigrants? gone.
PBS funding? Gone.
Printing money? Done.
Bailing out moronic corporations (like GM)? Gone.
UN Funding? Gone.
Billions to Haiti, Bangladesh, Gaza, & North Korea? Gone.
Affirmative action? Gone.
Ron Paul is our only hope.
Hopefully this just gives the Santorum just enough propulsion to crash and burn even harder when he gets passed over. He’s more detestable than Romney.
I don’t want to see a Jew hating xenophobic isolationist, in the place of a Jew hating Muslim Marxist
When you say stuff like this, you shouldn’t mention ‘fruitcakes’.
I agree with you Revnant Dream.
While Ron Paul does have a few good ideas regarding fiscal policy, he isn’t the only fiscally conservative in this race, and he remains a nut on far too many other issues.
Mark Levin sums Ron Paul up equally. And, Mark called tonight’s poll (the three frontrunners) accurately in the last hour of his radio show today.
I think RAND Paul is sharper and more straight up than his father. Ron Paul is excellent regarding the Constitution and Federal Reserve, but I don’t think being “friendly” with Iran’s leaders is the way to deal with lunatics.
Sure Mike.This is part of a comment posted earlier at BCF.
” You can gauge the unsuitability of Ronpaul as a candidate by the kool-aid drinking zeal of his supporters, most of whom seem to spend their days surfing the web so they can post comments that begin with “ONLY Ronpaul will…”
Do those last 3 words look familiar?
You also said ” Your misattributions of Paul being a ‘truther’ ”
I did not say that Paul was a truther,read my comment again,and then just for the heck of it take a minute and google ” Ron Paul truther”.
Don’t bring safety scissors to any fight.
Only Ron Paul will deliver.
Gun control? Gone.
Abortion funding? Gone.
Millions of paper-pushing government employees? Gone.
Bureaucratic policies? Gone.
Cradle-to-grave welfare? Gone.
Income tax & IRS? Gone.
Obama care? Gone.
Anchor baby citizenship? Gone.
Illegal immigrants? Deported.
Ponzi scheme unsustainable social security? Gone.
Free medicare for illegal immigrants? gone.
PBS funding? Gone.
Printing money? Done.
Bailing out moronic corporations (like GM)? Gone.
UN Funding? Gone.
Billions to Haiti, Bangladesh, Gaza, & North Korea? Gone.
Affirmative action? Gone.
If there is any hope for America these steps must be taken. If not Ron Paul, then Who?
wallyj, Ron Paul’s die-hard supporters tend to be extremely condescending to those who disagree. Rather than debate, they insult. They’re not doing Ron Paul any favours, hanging on to his pant-legs like that. (“Effing” this and “effing” that…)
North of 60, are you cutting and pasting?
Apparently so chutzpahticularw… 🙂 scroll to the comments:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/286115/tweedlemitt-and-tweedlenewt-mark-steyn
If one notes what Kate has just below the masthead in the current SDA, “Pleasing your enemies does not turn them into friends” Ron Paul seems to think that butting out of the world’s problem areas where any opposition is voiced, i.e. “the middle east” … is the answer. I haven’t tuned into Prison Planet for awhile, but they too seemed to see the same shadows lurking as Dr. Paul.
If there is any hope for America these steps must be taken.
If not Ron Paul, then who else running has the guts to do what’s needed?
marc in calgary: I can’t even spell my nick right at this time of night:)
Thanks for the link! Mike in Calgary and North of 60 must be spamming for the Paul team. Original thought is apparently too hard.
This is a public forum discussion about US politics, and I’m not a candidate.
Address personal comments and questions to
n0rth_0f_60@yahoo.com
If Ron Paul gets the nomination, Obama wins in 2012.
Ron Paul is unelectable.
If not Ron Paul, then who else running has the guts to do what’s needed?
Romney is far closer to the nom after tonight. Santorum has little going on outside Iowa and he has several very serious drawbacks that like the other flaring challengers will see him fade out.
Romney should win big in NH and that gives him the momentum to close it out UNLESS a someone currently on the sidelines decides to make a run. It wont be Christie. It wont be Palin. So i doubt it will be anyone.
Romney has run a frontrunner campaign – waiting out the challenges from the right – perry being the only one who had a real shot (though i wonder how Tim Pawlenty would have done had not bailed because of his poor showing in an Iowa straw poll(!!)). They are all withered away and their supporters need to be welcomed aboard – and that includes the moderate – read fiscally driven – paul supporters.
There are really only three things that can prevent a Romney presidency:
1. a third party run by Paul. Unlikely – his son doesn’t want him to do it. Paul should play Joe Kennedy in the hopes of making rand JFK.
2. Hillary becoming Obama’s VPOTUS. Big threat. I hope/trust Romney’s people have gamed that out. Here’s hoping that Marco Rubio takes the VPOTUS position on the ticket. (Paul Ryan would be an interesting second option as would a couple of sitting governors)
3. A strong US recovery. The potential exists. But with the death of the euro a real possibility, and several other international economic troubles (Chinese and Indian recessions, for example) it could just as easily get much much worse. And there is much anecdotal evidence that many in the US who will drive the economy forward are sitting on the sidelines determined NOT to get back into the game until Obama is out of the white house.
That Romney will get the nomination is not a very daring prediction.
Then he will easily get the support of most/all other candidates, and their supporters (except possibly some evangelists who does not like mormons).
The question is how he will handle Paul (or better, Paul’s supporters)?
If he is able to insert a good amount of fiscal conservatism in his program, and select a good small-c conservative as VP, then he might be able to get them on board too. (In any case, he also needs the TP supporters.)
But if he goes back to the big-government, big-business-hugging, GOP policies of Bush 1 & 2, then the enthusiasm for him will melt quickly, and the independents will stay away from the polls, i.e. an Obama win.
It’s not about Ron Paul per-se. It’s about the uncomfortable issues he raises. Every president has been sweeping them under the rug and hoping and praying the S won’t HTF, on their watch. That’s not good enough any more. Four more years of uncontrolled graft, greed, and lobbyist driven corruption is going to increase the fiscal impropriety and move the US that much closer to anarchy or dictatorship. Gun and ammo sales were at an all time high this holiday season. Americans are increasingly scared and angry. That should be a wake-up call no candidate can afford to ignore.
Romney wins by 8 votes.
Each vote he received cost 135 dollars.
–
Santorum votes only cost $1.65- spending $30,000
That has to scare the zebus out of MSM sales.
I think that Dr. Paul is the best man for the job. I would vote for him because he practises what he preaches. Mike in Calgary listed all the plus’s that Dr. Paul would bring to the USA in his post above.
Dr. Paul would follow the Constitution. If a person looks at this quality rather than adopting a MSM opinion (Fox is in the bucket for Romney for who knows what reasons), there is nothing not to like – Dr. Paul is not a Sorass guy – he is a Libertarian! I’d like to read the Soreass link – it could be a set-up to turn away true patriots who hate (with good reason) kapo Georgie Porgie. Discrediting a person without sound reasons and/or proof of convictions is no way to win others over.
I do know that Dr. Paul and Rick Perry are the only Military vets in the lot – Mitt and Newt sat out the war (Viet Nam) in France learning how to hide behind soldiers. Most Vets, who have actually fought in a war, HATE war. Nobody wants to kill another person – it is not natural to wish to kill, it is natural to defend. Defense is Dr. Paul’s stance, we need a military to defend us against invaders. Rome lost it’s Republic when it engaged in endless wars against peoples who did not threaten Roman citizens. Rich Roman citizens (like Mitt and Newt) refused to serve so Roman Emperors hired Mercenaries (on the taxpayers dime). Mercenaries fight for pay, if the pay dries up they quit and hire themselves out to the next highest bidder, with money. Eventually the money dries up – see USA today. Spoiled ‘circus and bread/beer’ citizens revolt….taxpayers lose all…the nation desolves into tyranny and eventually is taken over by another nation (often from within the host nation)
It is not the Presidents job to declare war in a Republican government, it is the job of congress – a President is not a King.
A lot of Republican/Demo supporters are in the war business – suppliers or generals. There is a lot of money in the death of others.
Dr. Paul believes citizens have the right to live their own lives without a nanny state constantly nagging and banning and ‘sheltering’ – keeping all citizens at the developmental level of 6 month old babies. Dr. Paul rides a bike and he does not wear a helmet. I see people wearing helmets on bikes towing a baby in a wicker basket type carriage; the baby is not wearing a helmet!! What does that say about mom and pop?
I thank -you North of 60, Yukon Gold and Mike in Calgary for seeing the forest and the trees. I hate nanny state and I don’t want our soldiers fighting in endless foreign wars spending billions and being killed to fuel the $$ coffers of speculators. I think that the best defense is a strong standing army (armed citizen soldiers) and a big mouthed brash offense if internal or external enemies saber rattle. If those enemies really want to fight – get in, win and get out. The middle east fiasco would be over in a day if USA sent a nucular sub to sit on their doorstep. I’m a pajama pad would scurry back to his hole in the wall and beg the Americans to back away.
I think that America needs a cool headed wise man in the Whitehouse, not a hot head with Emperical asperations. I would vote for Dr. Paul, without any reservations. I like everything that he says and I like how he says what he says.
Let’s double our national debt to 30 trillion dollars! I think that’s a great idea! Let’s also devalue our currency by printing more money! Our debt will be half as much, but our purchasing power will also halve! Let’s *not* make any difficult decisions, and leave our children to dire circumstances! Oh, and remember: vote for Mitt Romney or Obama!
To all the Ron Paul supporters being criticized; just remember that since at least WWII, “patriotism and freedom” has been used to promote imperialism and world policing. This has been pushed ad nauseum into North American/Anglo saxon culture and it is now ingrained into many.
The critiques here are just conditioned to think they are safer and freer when we have troupes stationed all over the globe; never mind that America is currently the supreme leader in high tech weapons and arsenals at the ready so in reality to be the most able to afford playing isolationist.
At least Donald Trump has said that if some in the world still think America should police; each should pay the tab for the cost incurred. Libya’s oil should be an American asset right now.
I agree partly with Trump on this, but I favor Ron Paul’s which basically says “minding our own business” is still the best policy.
To all the Paul supporters who spout:
“Gun control? Gone.
Abortion funding? Gone.
Millions of paper-pushing government employees? Gone.
Bureaucratic policies? Gone.
Cradle-to-grave welfare? Gone.
Income tax & IRS? Gone.
Obama care? Gone.
Anchor baby citizenship? Gone.
Illegal immigrants? Deported.
Ponzi scheme unsustainable social security? Gone.
Free medicare for illegal immigrants? gone.
PBS funding? Gone.
Printing money? Done.
Bailing out moronic corporations (like GM)? Gone.
UN Funding? Gone.
Billions to Haiti, Bangladesh, Gaza, & North Korea? Gone.
Affirmative action? Gone.”
I have one question: HOW
This election is for the POTUS not dictator of the US. Unless you eliminate the legislative and legal branches of the US government your Ron Paul wet dream just aint gonna happen. I ran across the best description of Ron Paul the other day. He is a utopian right wing hippie.
I like Ron Paul’s less government, more fiscal responsibility ideas, but a George Soros endorsement, as we know what George Soros stands for, and a lack of foreign policy reality makes me real nervous. Unfortunately for its fiscal health the US has to wear the mantle of “Pax America” until it fades like Rome did.
Johan i Kanada has a good solution. Romney has a greater electability potential as compared to Santorum, but if he does take the final nomination he needs to recognize the badly broken system and get the Ron Paul group and their thinking on side even if it means having Paul as VP.
The US desperately needs a winning Conservative combination to thwart the socialist cabal’s attempt to fundamentally change the US.
Revnant Dream:
Coming along nicely. Keep working at it.
“He is a utopian right wing hippie”.
Joe
So what does that make the others?
Paranoid neocon imperalistic fascists?
I cannot understand how anyone in good concious can envision a non-painful exit from the world debt problem. Politicans are allowed to either ignore the issue or skate around it by tacking more debt on.
Many people minimalize Ron Paul’s message because it scares them or indirectly threatens them. Is what he is saying truthful? In more cases than not it is truthful. Debate the man on the issues he brings forward. Simply labelling him a lunatic is a cope out.
World economies are reaching the tipping point or might have already gone beyond. Socialist economics have become so engrained simply because they promise people an easy way. The great bastion of world capitalism the USA has followed that path and will reap the reward, sad to say.
Santorum is the Flavor of the Week for the same slice of voters who want anyone but Mitt. I commend these people for their principles, and deride them for their lack of knowledge of our political system.
Romney is the only candidate who has a strong political organization with fundraising ability. Five of the candidates were so clueless, they didn’t even get on the Virginia ballot. Their lawsuit, even if proper, doesn’t change the fact that they didn’t have someone on the ground reading the damned rule book.
Obama was a bolt from the blue, but he had a massive organization and enormous fundraising capability. That is why he stile the wind from Hillary’s sails.
Santorum will not grow this organization overnight.
Romney will win New Hampshire easily. He is running second to Gingrich in South Carolina, but he has the endorsement of Governor Haley. Romney is a tough sell in Bible Belt SC, but he will do OK nonetheless. Once Gingrich is gone, Romney will easily beat Santorum in Florida.
Bear in mind that there is a general election to win, and your race for those states is on NOW. Iowa is a key pickup needed for Republicans. Florida is a must win state. South Carolina doesn’t matter because it is safely Republican. New Hampshire matters only in a few electoral scenarios, but if New Hampshire and Maine go together, that is an enormous advantage. Virginia is another must win for the Republican, and only Romney and Paul got on the primary ballot.
Romney will win the nomination, and he is best suited to run against Obama. People need to pull their heads out of the clouds looking for a conservative messiah. It is the ELECTORAL MATH that matters. Fewer than ten states really matter, and Romney is likely to win most of them.
In the grander scheme of things though, the only thing that matters is the Supreme Court. The next president will get two or three nominations. Since most crucial votes split 5-4 in our favor, those choices will shape the court for a quarter century.
We must not let it be Obama, and any Republican will make better choices than him. So we need to focus on winning the office, not worrying about who passes the ideological purity test. If Republicans keep the House and win back the Senate (which is likely) than laws will come from a conservative Congress, and even a moderate Republican won’t veto those laws.
I credit people with lofty goals, but American politics works best incrementally. The American people often want change, but only in small measured doses. This is a CONSERVATIVE country in the sense that we want stability. That is the advantage of our Congress over a parliament.
I predict a smear campaign against Santorum. Anybody who has mounted a challenge against Romney has been shredded by some of Romenys buddys. I predict Newt will do an all out attack on Romney. As sad as this will be the Republicans will destroy each other and the Obahma clowns will win a second term. I don’t expect there to be much of America left after the nextt 4 years.
Gord Tulk and Reginald – nice comments.
My own view is that Iowa, as one state not the nation, was a vote about one key conservative value: family values. The other variables such as the economy, immigration, health care, foreign, were all involved as second tier values.
Santorum is strong on family values but weak on the economy.
Romney is less strong on family but strong on the economy.
They came in statistically tied. But it was only Santorum’s family values focus that even put him in this tier (the top three).
Ron Paul is strong on family values but utopian and naive on the economy – and incredibly ignorant about foreign affairs. That is – to state that Middle East anti-Americanism, jihadism and unrest is due to western and American imperialism is utterly ignorant of the real causes: demographic change, economic change, rural to urban etc..in the ME. I consider that his conservative set of values plus his team put him in the top three. But he can’t go any higher because his views are so naive and ignorant.
Perry is, in my view, functionally a top conservative, but, he’s so inarticulate he can’t express his policies and agenda on immigration, Congress, foreign affairs etc. That’s an unfortunate weakness which means that, as a candidate, he and his views are effectively unknown to the electorate. He ought to be higher in the First Set but unless he can make his views known, he’ll stay in the second set.
Gingrich’s family values are, heh, a mess. But his economic, immigration and other values put him in 4th place.
Note how Bachmann, who is all about family values (her 23 foster children) ended up last. Last. That’s because her other values are too rigid.
That leaves Romney, frankly, as the nominee. Now, the question becomes – how conservative is he really? Is he, like Harper, a genuine conservative but having to be moderate because he’s governing within a minority? Now, Harper, with a majority, is still ‘drip-by-drip’ cautious, but far more active in a conservative agenda.
Or is Romney a ‘moderate right’? His strength is economic and that is what is needed. Put him with a dynamic conservative VP – and I think that will be ‘the ticket’.
Don’t underestimate Obama. Note that Obama has always divested himself of any accountability, any history of his past. No academic records, no old friends and colleagues, no past policies. And if you investigate him you are deemed ‘racist’. Obama in 2008 ran as Not Bush. Now, he’s running as Not Congress. Imagine – he’s running against the elected representatives of the American people. Quite a tactic.
The GOP should openly publicize this tactic and present themselves as ‘the American people’.
Romney is a Republican who was governor of a state in which 80% of registered voters are Democrats.
1) Quite an accomplishment just to get elected.
2) With a state congress that was overwhelmingly Democratic, he had to govern as a pragmatist, kinda like a Canadian prime minister in a minority Parliament.
I can’t understand why anyone would support Ron Paul. He blames America for 911 two completely different ways at the same time. First of all and most agreigious is he believes in the truther conspiracy theory that America itself faked 911. And in case he’s wrong about that and the terrorists did it well, America pissed them off so it was deserved. That’s not patriotic people. That’s hatred for America. That’s treasonous. Don’t even get me started on his anti-semitism.
James: with respect, you are incorrect, and engage in misattribution. Ron Paul does *not* believe 9/11 was caused by the Bush gov’t, or Bush knew beforehand, or the CIA/neocons planned it.
If you want to know what caused 9/11, read the 9/11 commission report, penned by a bunch of republicans and CIA agents.
http://www.911commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf
Ron Paul simply mentions the unfortunate realities contained in this report, unpopular as they may be.
@ Mike in Calgary: a lot of people want to deny the unfortunate realities, such as those contained in the 911 report. As you say, Ron Paul is like the conscience of the United States bringing up constantly that which needs to be faced. In some ways Preston Manning was a lot like Ron Paul which rubbed the old establishment the wrong way constantly.
And what people seem to always ignore is that RP consistently beats Obama in public polls.
Whatever, Obama, Romney, Santorum all will continue the track we are on: massive spending and no restraint.
james: “First of all and most agreigious is he believes in the truther conspiracy theory that America itself faked 911.”
Ron Paul has denied that.
“TAPPER: Well, I think it’s more than eight sentences, but — but moving on, one of your former close aides recently said that you, quote, “engaged in conspiracy theories, including perhaps the 9/11 attacks were coordinated with the CIA, and that the Bush administration might have known about the attacks ahead of time.” So have you ever expressed in front of anyone…
PAUL: Now, wait, wait, wait, wait. Don’t — don’t go any further on that. That’s complete nonsense.”
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-ron-paul-michele-bachmann/story?id=15268339
North of 60: “It’s not about Ron Paul per-se. It’s about the uncomfortable issues he raises.”
I agree with that, and respect his persistence and principles. What I don’t like is his attempt to write off some of the other candidates as hating Muslims and hating gays. Because he’s been around for so long, and has been interviewed a lot, he sometimes gets sloppy in order to curry favour, in my opinion.
I predict Romney will win the nomination. If he wins the Whitehouse (and that’s not a slam-dunk)he will not take the necessary steps to save the US from collapse, but will rather be a caretaker – doing just enough to stave of the inevitable for just a bit longer.
I would love to be proven wrong.
I’ve got a prediction for January 10….2013.
No matter who the president is, the US will be another 4 trillion in debt, and not a damn thing will have improved.
Western voters are addicted to their government services, and won’t give em up.
There will be a financial “disturbance in THE FORCE”, bet on it.
Dr. Paul is not a Military-Industrial-Complex establishment toadie like all the other candidates. It seems obvious that the MSM has been given orders to ignore him, which of course implies that the MIC sees him as a real threat. Regardless of whether or not he is nominated or elected, he is providing a very useful function in the campaign, since he seems to be the only one speaking to the issues that working class, patriotic Americans are concerned about.
The other candidates are just spouting political rhetoric, just like we’ve seen in every election campaign before.
Jemma’s and Mike’s comments are well said. The intelligent commentators are speaking to the issues.
The ad hominem comments from the peanut gallery only speak to a limited credibility.
“And what people seem to always ignore is that RP consistently beats Obama in public polls.”
I’ve never seen a poll like that. The only candidate that’s beaten obozo in a poll has been romney, and i’ve only seen one of those. Even if such polls exist, they’d be meaningless in an actual election, particularly after months of campaigning with his more controversial statements on display. I agree with many of his ideas, but here’s a sad reality – he looks and sounds like a cranky old man.
I’m trying to figure this Ron Paul/truther quagmire.
The ‘truthers’ support him and are defending him by saying that he’s not a truther,which makes him the best choice.
Hmmmm,that doesn’t sound quite right to me.
@ wyatt ironbridge:
Did you look for the polls? Do any searches? If you did you would find it. So I did some searches for you but next time try doing it for yourself.
http://www.infowars.com/new-poll-ron-paul-betters-other-gop-candidates-vs-obama/
“The CNN / ORC poll shows Paul bettering Obama 47 to 46 percent among “the most reliable” group of voters, those who are 65 years and older. Paul attracts more independents than Obama by 48 to 47 percent. The Congressman also betters Obama 51 to 46 percent among white voters and betters the incumbent president 52 to 44 percent among voters residing in rural areas.”
He does better than the other GOP candidates.
(Remember as usual in the US, the fight is for the independents, as decided voters just vote along party lines. Ron Paul has the ability to actually win over both independents and even Democrat voters.)