…the actual implementation reflects somebody with the experience of two years in the Senate, who had never navigated outside of academia and Chicago tit-for-tat politics. So Mubarak is/is not a dictator, must leave now/yesterday/sometime soon as he serves as sort of a figurative leader/a critical transition player/a suspicious counter-revolutionary inasmuch as the U.S. must lay down conditions/advise only/respect Egyptian prerogatives, as private conversations with Egyptians are spilled to the press, Obama suggests the Cairo desire for freedom somehow channels his own support, and Biden, Clinton, and Obama contradict one another hourly.
Indeed: “Leon Panetta told us Mubarak was going. The perky newscasters kept telling us that Mubarak was going. President Obama (head left: utter a cliché; slowly pan right, emit another cliché) thought that too.” […] In a way, Hosni Mubarak is acting far more democratically then the protestors demanding his ouster. There is an election scheduled in Egypt for September. The democratic solution counsels patience: let the process unfold. Have the election. There is a difference, in short between what Plato called ochlocracy, i.e., mob rule, and democracy. It’s not at all clear that the cheerleaders for the Egyptian demonstrators have taken that distinction to heart.
Update: Mubarak has handed over power to the military and left Cairo. (The fine print).
Related: All is quiet in Iran. Speaking of Iran – “Interestingly, the Shah of Iran was also forced out on February 11. Let’s hope this isn’t an omen.”
By Oblamebush’s standards shouldn’t Oblamebush have stepped down after the Glen Beck rally? Of course he could have assumed 1/3 of the presidency after the Jon Stewart rally….
BTW Don’t you just love the rigid middle digit that Hosny is giving Oblamebush?
It’s not at all clear that the cheerleaders for the Egyptian demonstrators have taken that distinction to heart.
It isn’t clear that the rowdies in the streets represent the majority of Egyptians either.
After all, when rowdies take to our streets and protest are they usually the representative of the majority or are they usually just a vocal minority?
I have often wondered what formula the “Revolution Romantics” use to determine when the overthrow of a government is considered to be “democratic”?
I mean, could it be the percentage of the crowd, multiplied by the noise level they make?
Eg. 2% of the population x 100 db = “democratic”?
Or would it maybe be
5% of the population x 110 db = “democratic”?
Or perhaps there are other variables to consider….like the burning of buildings and cars so the formula would look like this.
5% of the population x 110 db x {8 buildings burned + 25 cars burned + (10 x 3 cop cars – they are worth 10 times more than an ordinary car)} = “democratic”?
Barry is turning out to be the figurative empty suit many thought he would be. American foreign policy would probably be better served with an actual empty suit, consistency without the hubris.
All that Barry’s Admin had to sing in unison was:
“The people of Egypt wishes change in governance and we support it, although we also do want to underline our concern in having a smooth transition meaning if Egyptians seek Democracy, new candidates for leader must be given a chance, through fair media channels, to present their views and platforms and at the same time, the electorate have a fair amount of time to analyse and choose. In the meantime, the current system of Government must be allowed to carry on, either lead by Mr. Mubarak and/or the defense dept. which should prioritize it’s own citizens security first and foremost; thus we are calling on the current Egyptian government to come up with a timeline of events to be announced to the Egyptian people and the world, which in our opinion at this time, should be able to have enough time in electing new leadership by 2011 years end or early 2012 at the latest”
Something like that, designed to speak to the people.
Unfortunately, I don’t sense this US Administration wanting a smooth transition for Egypt governance…Do you?
…often wondered what formula the “Revolution Romantics” use to determine when the overthrow of a government is considered to be “democratic”?
One man, one vote, once.
Terry, my head is spinning having read that bafflegab! How can we be sure you aren’t channeling Barry?
I think the usual CarBQ’s in France are as suggestive of a need for regime change as are the street demos in Egypt.
C’mon glasnost, we aren’t talkin’ Zimbabwe here! There are elections in Egypt, and I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that the eventual winner polls almost 100% of the votes, just like in, em, oh, forget it!
Historically, how many violent transitions of power resulted in real democracies?
Barry and his team are absolute keystone cops on this one.
Contrast his actions here to the Iranian demonstrations, which he was so tentative and tepid in supporting. While Mubarek’s time is up, you would think US interests are in facilitating the change to happen in a peaceful way rather than piling on and creating uncertainty.
All the while demonstrating that Obama will burn any ally in anyway. Somehow I think Saudi intelligence will stop sending information on plots they are aware of to the US. Because, whats the point in helping Barry….
If World War II counts, then I’d say at least 2, though granted not quite the same violent transition!
“Historically, how many violent transitions of power resulted in real democracies?”
Only one…
RIchard, I’d say Germany and Japan for my 2 cents!
Hosni MuBARAK
BARAK Obama
Hmmmm ?????
Thinks like an African.
I am always amazed at synchronized swimming of historical events. When an era is going into its sunset then the leader arises that is weak and indecisive. Think about Louis XVI or recent installments in Liberal Party of Canada/.
He should change his name from Hosni to ‘Hose me’.
He sure is giving the Obamites a hosing.
Too bad Chuck Heston isn’t around. Egypt could use another Moses.
Sounds like they’ve gotten BAD INTELLIGENCE.
Update: NTR is reporting that H.Mubarak has stepped-down; likely making this a dead thread.
oz/joe
That’s exactly what I’ve been thinking for weeks. Apparently, to the One, a large anti-government protest means the government must step-down. I guess conservatives didn’t need to stock all of that ammo after all.
Regarding the Egyptian protesters:
If Nancy Pelosi was the President of Egypt, she’d have called the protesters “AstroTurfers”.
Like Brett Favre, the One must now step-up and collect his due of media accolades. After all without Brett and Barak, none of this would be possible.
That said, hopefully Mubarak consulted with PMSH who hopefully consulted with Iffy who hopefully consulted with Rae before he made any rash decisions. And hopefully PMSH comments on today’s events so the Egyptian military knows what to do, and the newly liberated people of Egypt can finally go home knowing they haven’t crossed the man in the sweater vest.
btw, if the military takes-over for the dictator are the people liberated? A ‘bird in the hand’ folks, a ‘bird in the hand’.
Obama is in over his head, and the decisions he’s making are making the situation worse in Egypt. The last thing that nation needs is more flammers riling up the masses.
Now that Mubarak has stepped down I’m hearing from some CBS commentator that Chairman O never said that Mubarak should step down. He said he came close to saying it but never did say it – notwithstanding Gibb’s comment that they wanted him to step down “yesterday”.
And so the spin to help the Administration save face begins. The liberal MSM will spin quite a yarn trying to make Obama look like a true statesman on this issue.
The record is the record and it shows that Barry and his crew looked and sounded like the third rate foreign policy buffoons that they are.
How can someone billed as the smartest man in the room be such a naif?
The Obama administration has “acted stupidly” in just about every facet of foreign affairs since before the 2008 election.
He has been woefully inconsistent and weak in his support of democracy, disrespectful of allies, and fawningly circumspect with Iran and China, neither of which has hesitated to use deadly force to quench any hints of democracy or opposition.
Piling on in the Egyptian troubles like he has done, destabilizes that country, encourages enemies of the West, and is an embarrassment to the USA.
Mubarak was always the Egyptian Army’s front man, just like Sadat and Nasser before him.
Military officers all.
All the protestors have done is forced the Egyptian Army to get a new front man.
The people who were throwing a fit in the streets these last 2+ weeks aren’t going to like Sulieman, the Army’s new front, any better than they liked Mubarak.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Obama can just about see Canada from his house.
*
not to be a party pooper, but is anybody reading the fine print here?
“In a statement read out on state television at midday on Friday,
the military announced that it would lift a ***30-year-old
emergency law*** but only ‘as soon as the current
circumstances end’.”
*
“Military moves to defuse crisis, Mubarak digs in”
“Egypt’s powerful army pledged on Friday to guarantee President Hosni Mubarak’s reforms in a move to defuse a popular uprising, but many angry protesters said this failed to meet their key demand that he resign immediately.”
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2011/02/01/17108591.html
…-
“Closing Thoughts On Spengler”
“we have finally caught up with Spengler’s prediction that “the oldest and most primitive, the military means, will come into its own again.” Today its time has come,”.
“Today its time has come, from the so-called “rogue states” of Iran and North Korea to the jihadist militias of Hamas, Hezballah, and the Taliban, the quasi-military drug cartels of Asia and Central and South America, and the world-wide network of Al Qaeda, all of which are exploiting the increasing loss of authority, will, and national identity in the west and its steady drift toward formlessness. A telling symbol of this growing void is the fact that Hitler and Stalin, the rulers of one-time powerful yet inherently chaotic regimes, have once again become models of totalitarian leadership, Hitler and Nazi ideology in the jihadist world, and Stalin among such tyrants as Castro, Vladimir Putin (with direct ties to the KGB), and, before his overthrow by American forces, Saddam Hussein.
Spengler’s storm cloud sums up a terrifying world-picture that confronts us from the beginning in The Hour of Decision: we live in times that are “far more terrible than the ages of Caesar and Napoleon,” the world has become possessed of a “frightful reality,” the sheer danger of life “comes once more into its own,” and History, with a capital H, reappears “as it really is – tragic, permeated by destiny,” fate, and chance. Once again, as in The Decline, Spengler reads human history almost as a fact of nature, here depicted as an uncontrollable. destructive force: “Thunderstorms, earthquakes, lava-streams; these are near relatives of the purposeless, elemental events of world history.”
Those who know their classics have heard this voice before. It is one of the oldest on record, and it comes down to us from the very beginning of our literary heritage:
As inhuman fire sweeps on in fury through the deep angles
of a drywood mountain and sets ablaze the depth of the timber
and the blustering wind lashes the flame along, so Achilleus
swept everywhere with his spear like something more than a mortal
harrying them as they died, and the black earth ran blood. (3)”
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/4674
Stephen said…”Barry and his team are absolute keystone cops on this one” and thats about as good a description as I have seen. Zero has revealed how woefully incompetent he is, and while many here already knew that, he is revealing grand incompetence on a world stage in real-time over a two-week timespan.This is not a one-time forgivable slip of the tongue.
When Oprah (queen of everything that is inconsequential) demands we respect Zero we can accurately predict that the damage to his “reputation” is so bad that a call has gone out to all sycophants to support him.
Ohhh and last time I checked Sharm El Shiekh is still in Egypt, Mubarak has tactically retreated, I doubt he has given up any real control. Hopefully a real politician can extricate the West from this disaster.
Well done Zero, more incompetent than Jimmah Cartuh-worst president evah!
O’TOTUS O’narcissist update: leftrightleftright….
“Obama statement set for 1:30 EST. Be prepared for an altered state.”
H/T:
“45. buddy larsen”
http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2011/02/10/the-riddlers/#comment-143385
I’ll just leave this here…..
looks like Leon was right after all. if off by a day.
3w.novinite.com slash view_news dot php?id=125183
I’ve got a serving of crow piping hot here, who’s going to step up and scarf it down? how about you Kate, it was YOUR post.
Posted by: beagle at February 11, 2011 12:57 PM
The evolution from that of corrupt nominal ally of the US to simply another ME Islamic Republic is likely inevitable for Egypt and one that Obama likely yearns for under his personal taqiyah, thus his seeming confused messages. The left-Islamic alliances make it tough to fake a sincere advocacy for “democracy” which, in the case of the Islamic world essentially means, one man, one vote, once.
The only question is whether or not the young generation now in the Egyptian military without memory or accurate knowledge of the defeats of past wars with Israel will attempt a repeat before Obama leaves office. This is critical because it’s likely that there would be no US backstop to Israel’s obliteration under Obama. The result would be Israel’s choice of potential annihilation in a (four-front) war of attrition or going nuclear.
The result would be Israel’s choice of potential annihilation in a (four-front) war of attrition or going nuclear.
No need to go nuclear when a few bunker busters to the Aswan Dam would do the trick.
So next time there is a large group of protesters in Washington does that mean Barry will resign as well?
I notice bambam hasn’t mentioned Egypt’s secret nuclear facilities. The guy is scary in his guile or his ignorance. I’m going with guile myself.
Bomb, bomb, bomb! Bomb, bomb Iran!
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
Go bomb Ira-a-an!
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
Because I ca-a-an!
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
Bomb Ira-a-an!
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
With Shock and Awe, they will be reelin’.
More oil, we’ll be stealin’.
Bomb, bomb, bomb! Bomb, bomb Iran!
Still pissed at France, ’cause they wouldn’t dance.
Gonna bomb Iran, re-election to enhance.
Let’s bomb Iran…
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
With Shock and Awe, they will be reelin’.
More oil, we’ll be stealin’.
Bomb, bomb, bomb! Bomb, bomb Iran!
Bomb, bomb, bomb! Bomb, bomb Iran!
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
Go bomb Ira-a-an!
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
Because I ca-a-an!
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
Bomb Ira-a-an!
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
With Shock and Awe, they will be reelin’.
More oil, we’ll be stealin’.
Bomb, bomb, bomb! Bomb, bomb Iran!
Me and my crew, still have much to do.
Think I’ll bomb Iran; distract from scandals anew.
Let’s bomb Iran…
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
With Shock and Awe, they will be reelin’.
More oil, we’ll be stealin’.
Bomb, bomb, bomb! Bomb, bomb Iran!
Bomb, bomb, bomb! Bomb, bomb Iran!
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
Go bomb Ira-a-an!
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
Because I ca-a-an!
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
Bomb Ira-a-an!
(Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran…)
With Shock and Awe, they will be reelin’.
More oil, we’ll be stealin’.
Bomb, bomb, bomb! Bomb, bomb Iran!
Bomb Iran, bomb Iran… bomb Iran, bomb Iran…
(fade)
The military has taken over Egypt. Now what?
I don’t expect Obama will handle this any better than anything else he has messed up (deliberately or otherwise).
What were all of you expecting? I just see inchoate complaining about Obama. The Egyptians revolted and the US had to walk a line between supporting an ally and not being seen to prop up dictators.
It isn’t over yet but it is hard to see what he could have done differently.
Here is the full text of Mubarak’s speech:
“I just heard a rumour that Egyptians are going to be running this place. I’m outa here.”
custom10 @1:35 — Good one.
Mubarak is as gone as Putin is after his time in office was “up”.
He’s an army man and the army’s still in charge, even if there’s a new frontman.
eastern paul, the Americans won’t be “stealing” oil if they bomb Iran . . . what’s their oil doing under Iran’s soil?
(chill, oh shocked ‘progressive’ who reads too much Chomsky-the-linguist. It’s called humour.)
The best summary yet . . .
“President Obama has done the impossible. He’s proven that someone can deserve a Nobel Prize less than Al Gore!”
Tim Pawlenty.
Handing over power to the army just means he’ll be back after the army cleans up the mess.
A good article from M. Totten here: The Flight of the Intellectuals.
Now is an excellent time to take a fresh look at the interview I conducted with Paul Berman last year about his newest book, The Flight of the Intellectuals, which focuses on Tariq Ramadan, the false-moderate grandson of Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna.
I understand, gray, but Obama decidedly backed the Muslim Brotherhood.
I thought the object was to come out of this less bloody.
I think the criticism against Obama quite valid, indeed, deserved. Consider everything before him will already be difficult but it’s especially difficult for him because of his sympathies and incompetence.
Just my thoughts.
Handing over power to the army just means he’ll be back after the army cleans up the mess.
~grok
Great triangulation there.
The Army savages the ringleaders and top supporters of the anarchy in the streets then after a few months of terror Mubarak comes back as the Saviour of Egypt.
Nobody can hang any of the atrocities on Mubarak because he “stepped down” and Mubarak reassumes power while smelling like a rose.
It could happen.
(Mubarak’s probable patron is likely to be the Saudis under that scenario because it would make Obama look like a schmuck)
Mubarak’s probable patron is likely to be the Saudis under that scenario because it would make Obama look like a schmuck
too late.
Yep, a repeat of the Shah; Mubarak out on Feb 11th as the @#$$# lefty effete US President refused to back them up or give them real assistance. There were many ways to do this but the lefties were just paralyzed by ideology and US hatred.
Now, once again, the US is weakened because they ARE revealed as a toothless kitty.
We await for the next thirty year ruler to emerge from the military, who must be very busy at the moment.
overheard in Cairo …
“we won, we won. now what?”
Right Honourable Terry Tory at February 11, 2011 10:25 AM
Yes, or something like that …. or ANYTHING!!!
But this US administration has revealed itself as a whole executive of empty suites. The world will take a message, even though this executive has not sent one … directly.
Alos, why are the Egyptians happy that now the country is under martial law?